sameera025:

sameera025:


The so called hate you say I have in my heart..Your words fume with hatred towards muslims.

Rich4god:
@sameera025, agentofAllah, empiree and co... Hope you guys are seeing what is going on in Niger, Turkey and other muslim countries... In as much as charlie hebdo went over the edge to use Mohammed on their front cover... But that doesnt warrant all these protest and destruction of properties as seen in Niger republic. When will muslims organize a massive rally against BH, IS, Al qaeda and their likes. These are the kind of action that makes pple feel and believe that islam is a violent religion and supports terrorism...

sameera025:


So who is the God you believe he is referring to? What has been said about him? Why can't he be worshiped directly? Why only through a man?

Firmjudge:
Sameera025 salaam,
I have being following your thread keenly and i discovered how you answered ajibam question by using this qoute from At-Tirmidhi hadeth.
::::::
(I added the hadeth numbers below to show you i know what am saying.)
"Do not be people without minds of your own,
saying that if others treat you well you will treat
them well, and that if they do wrong you will do
wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong
(even) if they do evil." (Al-Tirmidhi)
[Al-Tirmidhi #1325]

Now fast forward to Rich4God question on Killing apostate you only qouted the quran, i went to my library and i was able to get this same hadeth from the above book you qouted refuting what you have said that it is not allowed forgetting that hadeths are the deeds and sayings of Mohammed. (Reference number included.)
Ahmad ibn ‘Abdah al-Dabbi al-Basri related to us: ‘Abd al- Wahhab al- Thaqafi related to us: Ayyub related to us from ‘Ikrimah that ‘Ali burned some people who abandoned Islam. This reached Ibn ‘Abbas and he said: I would have
killed them in accordance with the word of the Messenger of God:
‘Whoever changed his religion kill him’. I would not have burnt them in view of the word of the Messenger of God: ‘Do not punish with the punishment of God.’ This reached
‘Ali and he said: Ibn ‘Abbas has spoken the truth” (Tirmidhi 1378) A-IV)


Now my question is do you affirm this or not, if not what is your take on the fact that this is coming from the same source you once qouted in answering Ajibam question.
Please this is not to pull a long debate or discourage what you are trying to do here which i fully endorse but just drawing your attention to this kind of standard.
Thank you.

Firmjudge:
Sameera025 salaam,
I have being following your thread keenly and i discovered how you answered ajibam question by using this qoute from At-Tirmidhi hadeth.
::::::
(I added the hadeth numbers below to show you i know what am saying.)
"Do not be people without minds of your own,
saying that if others treat you well you will treat
them well, and that if they do wrong you will do
wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong
(even) if they do evil." (Al-Tirmidhi)
[Al-Tirmidhi #1325]

Now fast forward to Rich4God question on Killing apostate you only qouted the quran, i went to my library and i was able to get this same hadeth from the above book you qouted refuting what you have said that it is not allowed forgetting that hadeths are the deeds and sayings of Mohammed. (Reference number included.)
Ahmad ibn ‘Abdah al-Dabbi al-Basri related to us: ‘Abd al- Wahhab al- Thaqafi related to us: Ayyub related to us from ‘Ikrimah that ‘Ali burned some people who abandoned Islam. This reached Ibn ‘Abbas and he said: I would have
killed them in accordance with the word of the Messenger of God:
‘Whoever changed his religion kill him’. I would not have burnt them in view of the word of the Messenger of God: ‘Do not punish with the punishment of God.’ This reached
‘Ali and he said: Ibn ‘Abbas has spoken the truth” (Tirmidhi 1378) A-IV)


Now my question is do you affirm this or not, if not what is your take on the fact that this is coming from the same source you once qouted in answering Ajibam question.
Please this is not to pull a long debate or discourage what you are trying to do here which i fully endorse but just drawing your attention to this kind of standard.
Thank you.

sameera025:


Okay, good question. I looked up the hadith in question and found out the hadith is said to be considered unauthentic due to a number of reasons. One reason being, Ibn ‘Abbas was a boy of 13 when the Holy Prophet died. It is not conceivable that the Holy Prophet will give a law prescribing death penalty in a way that only a boy of less than 13 will transmit it to the future generations. More about it can be found here:
http://islamicperspectives.com/punishmentofapostasy_part2.html
Thanks.

lastmessenger:

First Christ is not just a man, he is the same with his father. The union between the father, the son( Christ) and the Holy Spirit is a mysterious union one which no one can explain in full terms but one thing is sure Christ said I and my father, we are one.
The God he is referring to is his father, and the reason why we must go through Christ to get to the father is because of the fallen nature of man. Only in Christ are we made perfect( here God impacts his own righteousness)whereby we can have access to to God.
A simple earthly analogy is that you cannot walk to the government house and go straight to the governors office. Somebody must introduce you to the governor.
Simply put,we worship God through Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth and the life

sameera025:


God says in the Quran:

"There is no compulsion in religion…" (Quran 2:256)

Not only does Islam demand their freedom to practice religion, but also that they be treated justly as any other fellow human.  Warning against any abuse of non-Muslims in an Islamic society, the Prophet stated:

"Beware!  Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment." (Abu Dawud)

Prophet Muhammad had a Jewish neighbour and this person used to every morning throw his garbage at the door step of the Prophet's home. The Prophet would then pick it up and throw it in the disposal area along with his personal trash. One morning the Prophet didn't see any garbage on his door step and he didn't really care much about it. The next morning same thing and so on, until a week passed by without any garbage being put on the Prophet's door step. So our Prophet went to that Jewish neighbor and paid him a visit to check on him. The Jewish neighbor was sick and he was in bed. Our Prophet then started taking care of his Jewish neighbor and the Jewish very soon embraced Islam because of our beloved Prophet's high morals.
The point of the story is that Prophet Muhammad was very ordinary. He wasn't rich nor was he treated with any special security by anyone. He spent his wealth on good Islamic causes and he was the best role model for everyone.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/374/viewall/

Empiree:
You seemed to have sent me a msg. I didn't see any unfortunately.

9jaforlife:
sameera025 I commend your efforts of educating the ill informed people about this blessed religion. Personally I don't believe that they are sincere about their "ignorance", like Empiree was trying to explain in his post, they (at least some of them) know exactly what they're doing. This is apparent in the manner in which they hurl insults at the Prophet (peace be on him) and call Muslims unjustifiable names while quoting mutilated verses of the quran rather than come forth to ask questions with open minds. Some will even call Islam a bad religion because of a bad experience that they had with a single Muslim, while disregarding acts of kindness that they might have received from other Muslims; yet such people will not call Christianity a bad religion even when they have encountered uglier experiences with scores of Christians.

However, you and AgentOfAllah have been exemplary in the way you handled this thread. Based on my favourite Edmund Burke quote which AgentOfAllah referred to in one of his posts- "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". It's better to enlighten the truly ignorant ones by furnishing them with valid information to counter the worldwide diffused lies, rather than watch and allow those who hide behind religion to perpetrate evil to win! This brings me to the topic of the 'real culprits'.

The bad picture in which Islam has been painted is caused by many factors including lack of education in some regions, but we often forget the action of the West. When people compile long lists of Muslim terrorists, claiming wrongly that it's because of teachings that they received through Islam, they never ask how these terror groups came about in the first place, and how they gained prominence across the globe. Hilary Clinton has gone public on how America birthed AlQaeda in order to fight the Soviet Union (it's on YouTube). During the Cold War, in the clash between America's Capitalism and Soviet's Communism, America funded and armed Islamic Jihadists to establish dominance, forgetting that it might have deadly consequences for them and the world in future. This is linked to claims that Osama was a longtime ally of America's CIA where he and his Afghan Arab Fighters received arms, before that alliance went sour; what Robin Cook (a former foreign Secretary in the UK) referred to as "a monumental miscalculation by Western security agencies". You can click or cut and paste this link to get a detailed gist: http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881 and/or http://thediplomat.com/2014/09/how-the-us-made-isis-a-threat/#disqus_thread

When the West aid these "Islamic Militants" for their selfish interests of gai ning dominance, whether amongst themselves or in the oil rich Middle East, it's PURELY political/economic; NOTHING to do with converting people to Islam. Sadly, such deadly empowerments naturally boomerang as it becomes easy for these terrorists to take advantage of the powers that has been handed to them. Unfortunately the trend is dangerously extending to new regions in the world as seen in the emergence of Boko Haram. The religion card is often played because people easily fall for it. If we all belonged to the same faith, world leaders would still have used other reasons to divide and rule, whether it's race or ethnicity. Haven't the 'superior' whites done it to blacks? Hasn't it happened many times between Hausas/Igbos/Yorubas in Nigeria? Or between the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda?

The earlier we all realize the truth of this matter, the better it is for us all.

malvisguy212:
They but wish that ye should reject
Faith, as they do, and thus be on the
same footing (as they): But take not
friends from their ranks until they
flee in the way of God (From what is
forbidden). BUT IF THEY TURN
RENEGADE, SEIZED THEM AND SLAY
THEM wherever ye find them ; and
(in any case) take no friends or
helpers from their ranks; - Except
those who join a group between
whom and you there is a treaty (of
peace), or those who approach you
with hearts restraining them from
fighting you as well as fighting their
own people. If God had pleased, He
could have given them power over
you, and they would have fought you:
Therefore if they withdraw from you
but fight you not, and (instead) send
you (Guarantees of) peace, then God
Hath opened no way for you (to war
against them). Surah.4:89-90. Y. Ali

sameera025:


Okay, good question. I looked up the hadith in question and found out the hadith is said to be considered unauthentic due to a number of reasons. One reason being, Ibn ‘Abbas was a boy of 13 when the Holy Prophet died. It is not conceivable that the Holy Prophet will give a law prescribing death penalty in a way that only a boy of less than 13 will transmit it to the future generations. More about it can be found here:
http://islamicperspectives.com/punishmentofapostasy_part2.html
Thanks.

sameera025:


Thanks 9jaforlife. You brought up some really valid points. People don't seem to look into the root of the problem. They just find it easier to blame muslims point blank. Most posts are attacks at the religion instead of sincere questions to gain knowledge and understanding.

sameera025:


Okay, so you are saying God is the father, Jesus is the son and we know Mary is the mother of Jesus. You still haven't mentioned anything about the father though. Since you have acknowledged that the father is God, isn't he is the one we should thank for our existence, the world around us, all that he has provided? You gave the analogy of having to be introduced to a Governor before seeing him. So using that analogy, why should the person giving the introduction be given all the praise and worship for the Governor's work? Sorry, I'm merely trying to understand your faith better, hence all these questions.

christopher123:
Brethren,


This is a desperate and urgent call from the throne of Grace that the brethren in Christ are about to make the greatest error of their lives by selling off their kingly heritage for a mess of pottage called "change". Change into what? Change into what happened to Egypt , Sudan, Lybia, Algeria and Turkey which were once flourishing Christian countries but because the brethren there also sold their souls on the premise of "it does not matter" they became the last set of Christians in those countries! Remember Turkey! It was the beautiful Christian country called Constantinople! Today it is history!


The foundation of the planned islamisation of Nigeria was taken in 1989 in Abuja by OIC. Since then they have not looked back! Our Government gave them a contribution of 21 billion dollars then! Wonder then where the funding of boko Haram is coming from? They have painfully now infiltrated one of the biggest denominations in Nigeria and offered one of their best Pastors -a Professor,a Vice presidential Slot! Now a larger community of that denomination now promotes this "change"! They did it in Constantinople ! Remember brethren, that the biggest denomination of Christians in the North - the EYN has been wiped off! All their churches burnt. You may say that it is the North it can't get here! They said the same thing in Sudan, Libya, Algeria and Constantinople! How come the brethren have become so dulled in the Spirit that they no longer are sensitive?
We may be the last Christians in Nigeria if this grave error the brethren is about to commit is not averted! Our Lord Jesus is greatly miffed by our irresponsibility as His Followers! How come we no longer hear Him! The Great shepherd of the Sheep! How come that Christians have forgotten that this country was made ungovernable by these same people and Christians are holding the wrong person responsible? How come? The signs of the eventual Islamization of Nigeria are awash in the 1999 constitution where Islam, Sharia are mentioned more than 100 times.! Not a single mention of Christ or Christianity! You say it does not matter. Now, mark it you cannot amend the constitution without a bitter progrom!


Brethren, the night is here! We must contend for the faith and our heritage which was handed once and for all to us by our maker!


Don't relent, sound this trumpet by forwarding same to all your contacts! We will not be the last Christians in Nigeria! Amen.

Now read this ..it has been circulating globally ..just bumped into this


,,

lastmessenger:
when man erred from the command not to eat the fruit of the knowledge good and evil, man died a spiritual death even though he was still physically alive. now a sacrifice was needed to bring back man to that point where he can enjoy the same fellowship he had with God in the garden of EDEN. who will qualify for this sacrifice must be a sinless. nobody or creature on earth was sinless therefore God himself have to send his son(Christ) who was there during the creation of all things in the form of a man to die for the sins of the whole world. now the command is simple for us Christians, a way has been carved out by God himself for us to reach him and the way is Jesus christ. if you worship christ, you are worshiping God cos they are the same in the Godhead.
A better physical analogy is the present democratic system of Government where there is the executive, the legislature and the judiciary. Here you dont only obey the executive but both the legislatures and the judiciary.the three arms of government is equal even though they have different functions, therefore Christ is the Godhead that was sacrificed for the sins of the whole world, the Holy spirit and the power of God that performs the physical wonders of God while the Father is the Godhead which issues the command.
Another thing you have to understand is that when Christ was on earth, sometime he related to God as higher being. the simple reason is because then he is relating with God as a human. at other time he relates with God as an equal knowing fully that he was once in the realm of the glory sharing equality with God in the Godhead. But now he died, he has risen and has gone back to where he shared equality with the father God, therefore for us to have access to the Godhead( the union), it must have to be through Christ. if you worship Christ, you are automatically worshiping the father and even the holy spirit for they are all equal and share the same glory.

lastmessenger:

The idea of Islamising Nigeria is a very stupid idea that is being fed to gullible people. Op You did no try at all.

sameera025:


Okay. So we muslims believe in Jesus as well but we believe he asked us to worship God directly rather than him. There is the difference. But still to a lot of Christians Islam seems so far fetched.

sameera025:


Where did I mention islamising Nigeria? I never suggested that in any way.

sameera025:


Where did I mention islamising Nigeria? I never suggested that in any way.

Firmjudge:



Thank you for your reply i have studied what you sent.

If AT timrdhi Dr SHAFAAT SAYS ABBAS WAS A SMALL BOY below is another SOURCE, why and how did he get to infer it is not authentic yet At-Tirmidhi has keept the narration.
BTW belowis from a diff Narrator

I will take your responces but in studying islam this is the website i use to read a hadith from.
www.sunnah.com
and this is what i have found again.

Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)
Reference
: Sunan an-Nasa'i 4018
In-book reference
: Book 37, Hadith 53
: Vol. 5, Book 37, Hadith 4023

Abu Umamah bin Sahl and 'Abdullah bin 'Amir bin Rabi'ah said:

"We were with 'Uthman when he was under siege and we could hear what was said from Al-Balat. 'Uthman came in one day, then he came out, and said: 'They are threatening to kill me.' We said: 'Allah will suffice you against them.' He said: 'Why would they kill me? I heard the Messenger of Allah [SAW] say: It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim except in one of three cases: A man who reverts to Kufr after becoming Muslim,[/b] or commits adultery after being married, or one who kills a soul unlawfully. By Allah, I did not commit adultery during Jahiliyyah or in Islam, I never wished to follow any other religion since Allah guided me, and I have never killed anyone, so why do they want to kill me?'"

Please like i have said i just want to know if it is acceptable in islam because seeing some countries practice it till date baffles me.

Note i took this thing out of a muslim website to avoid being labelled a bigot trying to spoil islam
except maybe you have an answer for me.


Please clear up this or me.
I appreciate what you are doing but i see people will soon spoil this place and it will then loss it meaning.

http://sunnah.com/nasai/37

lastmessenger:

Please I was not referring to you. I actually was writing to the silly guy that wrote that rubbish.

sameera025:


I checked the hadith in question, I was asked about the ruling on killing someone who leaves islam and I reverted to the quran where no such punishment was mentioned for such. The hadith seems authentic. I'll continue to do further research and get back to you on this one. Thanks

Rich4god:
I still continue to say, even though islam dont support terrorism, the actions of muslims world wide makes pple believe that muslims support terrorism...
Look at how muslims are protesting against the charlie hebdo cover page burning churches as if its the church that published it *lack of tolerance by these set of pple*...

How come there were no such massive rally condeming the killings....

Am not supporting charlie hebdo using the prophet in its magazine, but I believe, they did that to show that they were not intimitated by the attack + sm partisan politics behind the sane... But that doesnt gv the muslims the go ahead to destroy pples properties in the name of protest...
I knw, if not cos of boko haram menance, the north would have joined in the rally and we all knw who will bear the grunt... The southerners ofcos...

Alot need to be done to educate muslims on the issues of the quran.