lastmessenger:

The idea of Islamising Nigeria is a very stupid idea that is being fed to gullible people. You did no try at all.

Who told you is a stupid idea ..what happened in north and what is has happened in middle belt

Global issues are pointers to this trends

[quote author=lastmessenger post=29870502]

So reffering back to the time of Gabriel, Abraham, Jacob, David, Noah and all the other messengers who us muslims all regard as prophets. Did they all mention Jesus? What did they preach to the people about worship during their time if Jesus didn't exist then.

christopher123:


Who told you is a stupid idea ..what happened in north and what is has happened in middle belt

Global issues are pointers to this trends

Is the middle belt all Muslims ?are all northerners Muslims ? Please be objective.

[quote author=sameera025 post=29872874][/quote]
David and Moses spoke about Christ who would come. Abraham did not speak about Christ but the even in his life pointed to Christ eg when God asked him to sacrifice Isaac.
Noah, Joseph and even Jacob did not talk about Christ but the truth is that these men still needed to be saved through the sacrifice. They were not totally redeemed until the Christ was sacrificed.

lastmessenger:

David and Moses spoke about Christ who would come. Abraham did not speak about Christ but the even in his life pointed to Christ eg when God asked him to sacrifice Isaac.
Noah, Joseph and even Jacob did not talk about Christ but the truth is that these men still needed to be saved through the sacrifice. They were not totally redeemed until the Christ was sacrificed.

Okay, you are saying they weren't perfect, but you agree that God spoke to them right? So does that mean there was only the father and the holy spirit since Jesus hadn't come yet to form the trinity? What did the people before Christ have to worship in order to get into heaven? David and Moses tell their people to worship the Jesus that hadn't come yet? I never fully understood the trinity, these questions i'm asking will give me a better understanding.

sameera025:


Okay, you are saying they weren't perfect, but you agree that God spoke to them right? So does that mean there was only the father and the holy spirit since Jesus hadn't come yet to form the trinity? What did the people before Christ have to worship in order to get into heaven? David and Moses tell their people to worship the Jesus that hadn't come yet? I never fully understood the trinity, these questions i'm asking will give me a better understanding.

NO, but here is your answer.

In the light of the question about Jesus existance, here is a bible qout from the bible
Apostle John
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

HERE JESUS HIMSELF AFFIRMING HE EXISTED EVEN BEFORE ABRAHAM..

JOHN 8:56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58. Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD MADE FLESH.
The bible simply infer that JESUS has being in existance right from time BEING.
iwill answer your next question.

Firmjudge:

NO, but here is your answer.

In the light of the question about Jesus existance, here is a bible qout from the bible
Apostle John {Yohanna}
John (Yohanna)1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John (Yohanna)1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John (Yohanna)1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John (Yohanna)1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD MADE.
The bible simply infer that JESUS has being in existance right from time.
iwill answer your next question.

Thanks for your answer.

Since he was there from the beginning, as the word of God, why wasn't he brought down from the start? These quotes are they from the old testament or the new one? Are Christians meant to following the rulings of both or just the new testament?

I know i'm asking a lot of questions. Any that can answer please contribute. Thanks.

[quote author=sameera025 post=29868302][/quote]your earlier post indicates "no compulsory in religion, but the verse I quote say, if they turn ,size them.is this not compulsory?

There are plenty familiar faces here trying their tricks as usual when it comes to interfaiths debate. In that case, presence of tola9ja and Rilwayne001 might be needed here

sameera025:

Thanks for your answer.

Since he was there from the beginning, as the word of God, why wasn't he brought down from the start? These quotes are they from the old testament or the new one? Are Christians meant to following the rulings of both or just the new testament?

The qoute are from the new testament JOHN WAS AN APOSTL OF CHRIST

Now this is it, Jesus came to redeem us from our sins as our good deed alone is diff to achieve no matter how we strive unlike the prophets of old even them had lapses .

Please dont GET me wrong we also believe in Good work and Faith but can Good work Outweight our bad deeds..?
we are saved by Grace tru faith in Christ.
Now on the issue of why he did not comeforth from the start.

When man fell and got into SIN. God through the Prophets has announced the coming of a saviour, a messiah who will take away the sins of the world adam and eve got us into.
But man needed to learn Laws Through Prophhets LIKE MOSES ELIJAH ETC so that they will not take the free gift of GOD upon us for granted.
Please ask one question at a time.

iwill answer your previous question also dont forget mine thanks.

sameera025:
I know i'm asking a lot of questions. Any that can answer please contribute. Thanks.

sameera025, i have never seen such decurom as you displayed here i want to earn your religion in a manner like this and iwill have and love e us email eachother because of my busy schedule starting from tomro.
you can turn it down if its not ok for you.

Firmjudge:


sameera025, i have never seen such decurom as you displayed here i want to earn your religion in a manner like this and iwill have and love e us email eachother because of my busy schedule starting from tomro.
you can turn it down if its not ok for you.

Thanks, I am pleased with the manner in which you have conducted yourself as well. I'm happy to continue the conversation. Feel free to email me when you wish.

sameera025:


Okay, you are saying they weren't perfect, but you agree that God spoke to them right? So does that mean there was only the father and the holy spirit since Jesus hadn't come yet to form the trinity? What did the people before Christ have to worship in order to get into heaven? David and Moses tell their people to worship the Jesus that hadn't come yet? I never fully understood the trinity, these questions i'm asking will give me a better understanding.

God has a timing and when the time came the son was sent to redeem Nankind. In the Old Testament God was revealed to man mostly as God the father then Christ came( the son) and right now is the dispensation of the Holy Spirit.
In the Old Testament they people of Israel worshipped the God that was revealed to them but they truth remains that they were not perfect to go heaven. For the bible says " without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin" so the blood of Christ was shed and forgiveness were granted to all people who accepted Christ a their Lord and savior.

lastmessenger:

God has a timing and when the time came the son was sent to redeem Nankind. In the Old Testament God was revealed to man mostly as God the father then Christ came( the son) and right now is the dispensation of the Holy Spirit.
In the Old Testament they people of Israel worshipped the God that was revealed to them but they truth remains that they were not perfect to go heaven. For the bible says " without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin" so the blood of Christ was shed and forgiveness were granted to all people who accepted Christ a their Lord and savior.

The God that was revealed to them, shouldn't that be the same as Jesus since you say Jesus is God? What has been said of this God of their time? Are you also saying that none of them were admitted to heaven? No one that came before Christ had a chance of forgiveness and entrance to heaven because he wasn't there yet to die for their sins?

sameera025:


The God that was revealed to them, shouldn't that be the same as Jesus since you say Jesus is God? What has been said of this God of their time? Are you also saying that none of them were admitted to heaven? No one that came before Christ had a chance of forgiveness and entrance to heaven because he wasn't there yet to die for their sins?

The Godhead comprises of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. The father was reveale to them in the Old Testament.
Yes there were not totally forgiven as shown in the fact that they continued to offer sacrifice every year for the forgiveness of sins. The animal sacrifice offered a temporary cleansing but then Christ came and offered the final offering which is once and for all.
Yes they they did not go to heaven. The men who lived a righteous life were confined in Abraham's bosom.

Sameera025, Check your PM...!!

AgentOfAllah:
Okay

I've read the Quran and the bible, and they are both interesting in the sense that they compete with each other on violent themed contents. I personally think the bible edges the Quran in violence.

Lol... So you say.

You are mistaking crass representation of statistics as bluntness and "matter of fact". To be clear, I'm all for bluntness, but your interpretation of "bluntness" is quite shallow, as you seem happy dwelling on the perfunctory anecdotes that reinforce your deeply entrenched prejudices. Go read the first comment you addressed to me. It was not blunt, it was just provocative: "Islam is a death cult".

Since according to your brand of statistics, correlation implies causation, let's play a game called the FactCheck.
Statistically, the percentage of incarcerated blacks in the United states is somewhere between 50% & 60%. So let me throw your question back at you. Why are blacks...what's that phrase you used?... "full of drama"? Why can't you people just be peaceful in the the States?


that's a funny picture. I'm sure the message of Islam will resonate with most pigs; something that is bound to raise not a few eyebrows from members of the bovine family.



The majority of Muslims seem opposed to violent jihad for the same reasons majority of Christians seem opposed to the violent verses in the bible: Such teachings are anachronistic. Yet, there are still fundamentalists who believe god wants them to act on his behalf.

Wow. My friend...u have so much errors in your comments here. ... i truly don't know where to start..
i really can't be bothered to educate on the plight of the black man in America and why they make up the majority of inmates .. and it can't be paralleled with islam.. incase u didn't notice the black man is not a religion.

I can't be bothered to educate you on christain theology. .... if you don't know the context of old testament wars and laws then there isn't much i can do to convince u that Islam's prescribed violence is of a senseless and brutal nature and is not comparable with the wars and killings described in the Old Testament. ..
i can't be bothered to educate u on the new convent which is explained in the new testament which is binding on christains hence u don't see christains bond by the old testament laws. This is why christains are peaceful and don't go around blowing them selves up to make a point.

I really won't argue with u since u still have alot to learn on these issues

lastmessenger:

The Godhead comprises of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. The father was reveale to them in the Old Testament.
Yes there were not totally forgiven as shown in the fact that they continued to offer sacrifice every year for the forgiveness of sins. The animal sacrifice offered a temporary cleansing but then Christ came and offered the final offering which is once and for all.
Yes they they did not go to heaven. The men who lived a righteous life were confined in Abraham's bosom.

Isn't that unfair though? That they didn't get an equal opportunity as those who came after Christ to enter heaven? Anyways, my question on the old testament and the new one. I read a quote once about Jesus saying that the rulings of the old testament should be followed as well as th new one. Is this accurate?

Firmjudge:
Sameera025, Check your PM...!!

I just received a request. I sent u an email. You can reply directly to that address.

sameera025:
.

Hi sameera025
It breaks my heart when i read your defense of Islam and u use verses to make a point iin your attempt to present Islam as nice yet it contradicts your early Muslim scholars and even Muslims here on nairaland. .. I have been busy since the last time we engaged here and have been un able to write back. .... i think u are very sincere but you are getting things wrong. ...

I believe uhave askedsome questionsabout Lord Jesus...U like most Muslims don't understand why a Person should pay for the sins of the world... why would a God burden his son with the sins of a believer in christ... Muslims have even mocked this christain theology. ..

But let's look at your sources. ... Your sahih source

Sahih Muslim 6666--Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.

Sahih Muslim 6668--Allah's Messenger [said]: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians.

Do you see the inconsistency with you preaching Islam in light of what it is not...As you ponder on this i want use to compare this command given by Mohammed 600 years after this command given by Jesus. ..

This is what muhammed preach;
Quran 5:45: "And We prescribed for
them therein: The life for the life, and
the eye for the eye, and the nose for
the nose, and the ear for the ear, and
the tooth for the tooth, and for
wounds retaliation. But whoso
forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it
shall be expiation for him. Whoso
judgeth not by that which Allah hath
revealed such as wrong-doers. "

This verse go against the teaching of Jesus;

Mattew 5
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye
for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h]
39 But. I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If
anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.
41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.
42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love
your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and
pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on
the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what
reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


How can u possibly accept the teachings of Mohammed that says revenge and reject that of Christ that said forgive...

sameera025:


Isn't that unfair though? That they didn't get an equal opportunity as those who came after Christ to enter heaven? Anyways, my question on the old testament and the new one. I read a quote once about Jesus saying that the rulings of the old testament should be followed as well as th new one. Is this accurate?

No it is not unfair in anyway. Like I sad earlier God has His timing.
Jesus never said the ruling of the Old Testament should be followed eventhough he lived under the ruling of the Old Testament. He established a completely different rules better than what was obtainable in the Old Testament.

sameera025:


The quran is the word of Allah, unfabricated and perfect. Prophet Muhammed is my role model, so I practice his sunnah. I have explained the verses you sent to me, so if there are more you don't understand please do post them.

I mean u no offense but if Mohammed is your role model then u should be off fighting infidels and kaffirs till they pay the jizyah and hope u die as a martyr.

You should be enslaving women and children after beheading their fathers

You should be sleeping with children

Ypu should also have ur own harem of sex slaves

Ypu should be killing pagans and those that write poems about you.

You should be beating your spouse

You should.... never mind....

lastmessenger:

No it is not unfair in anyway. Like I sad earlier God has His timing.
Jesus never said the ruling of the Old Testament should be followed eventhough he lived under the ruling of the Old Testament. He established a completely different rules better than what was obtainable in the Old Testament.

I looked them up. These were quoted to be in the new testament. Are they accurate?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."  (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”  (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

sameera025:


I looked them up. These were quoted to be in the new testament. Are they accurate?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."  (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”  (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

Notice when he said until all is accomplished. Actually all have been accomplished the day Christ died and that is why he said on the cross it is finished.The requirement of the law was fulfilled on the cross by Jesus himself. A new and better law is here established by Jesus Christ and the law is simple.
Love The Lord thy God with all your heart and all your might
The. Second is love thy neighbour as you love yourself.

Ifeann:


Wow. My friend...u have so much errors in your comments here. ... i truly don't know where to start..

make a pick

i really can't be bothered to educate on the plight of the black man in America and why they make up the majority of inmates .. and it can't be paralleled with islam.. incase u didn't notice the black man is not a religion.

you don't need to educate me on why more blacks are incarcerated than others I know why. Nevertheless, the white man who sees the statistics and turns a blind eye to the root cause, that is, the abject economic policies of the state towards black people, would be tempted to assume there is something that makes blacks naturally gravitate towards criminality. I hope you understand that I am not trying to make a religious analogy here because this point is lost on you. You seem to ignore the lopsided political injustices meted to Muslim majority populations by the Western powers, and are all too happy to play on numbers. You're not the only one who can tell stories with numbers, you know?
I see your point though, why should you bother educating me when you've failed to educate yourself first?

I can't be bothered to educate you on christain theology. .... if you don't know the context of old testament wars and laws then there isn't much i can do to convince u that Islam's prescribed violence is of a senseless and brutal nature and is not comparable with the wars and killings described in the Old Testament. ..

Please don't bother educating me on how god instructing its followers to kill every man, woman, child, except virgins is not "violence of a senseless and brutal nature" (Numbers 31) or how good ordained that the punishment for a kid who curses their parent is death (exodus 21:17). If you try to educate me, you'll be wasting your Mb and time. You really shouldn't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

i can't be bothered to educate u on the new convent which is explained in the new testament which is binding on christains hence u don't see christains bond by the old testament laws. This is why christains are peaceful and don't go around blowing them selves up to make a point.

Please don't bother educating me on how god commanded genocides for thousands of years, only to change after sacrificing its innocent son, who wasn't really sacrificed because it brought him back to life. I would feel tortured if you did!

I really won't argue with u since u still have alot to learn on these issues

No, don't argue with me... Go educate yourself first.

lastmessenger:

Notice when he said until all is accomplished. Actually all have been accomplished the day Christ died and that is why he said on the cross it is finished.The requirement of the law was fulfilled on the cross by Jesus himself. A new and better law is here established by Jesus Christ and the law is simple.
Love The Lord thy God with all your heart and all your might
The. Second is love thy neighbour as you love yourself.

Okay, I understand what you are trying to say. About the cross, why was he crying out "my God, My God, why have you forsaken me" if he himself is supposedly that God?

AgentOfAllah:
make a pick

you don't need to educate me on why more blacks are incarcerated than others I know why. Nevertheless, the white man who sees the statistics and turns a blind eye to the root cause, that is, the abject economic policies of the state towards black people, would be tempted to assume there is something that makes blacks naturally gravitate towards criminality. I hope you understand that I am not trying to make a religious analogy here because this point is lost on you. You seem to ignore the lopsided political injustices meted to Muslim majority populations by the Western powers, and are all too happy to play on numbers. You're not the only one who can tell stories with numbers, you know?
I see your point though, why should you bother educating me when you've failed to educate yourself first?


Please don't bother educating me on how god instructing its followers to kill every man, woman, child, except virgins is not "violence of a senseless and brutal nature" (Numbers 31) or how good ordained that the punishment for a kid who curses their parent is death (exodus 21:17). If you try to educate me, you'll be wasting your Mb and time. You really shouldn't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

Please don't bother educating me on how god commanded genocides for thousands of years, only to change after sacrificing its innocent son, who wasn't really sacrificed because it brought him back to life. I would feel tortured if you did!


No, don't argue with me... Go educate yourself first.

and this says that he is an atheist?,
dude go pray last salat prayer for mosque abeg

I am yet to hear anything about the father. What is said about him?

sameera025:


Okay, I understand what you are trying to say. About the cross, why was he crying out "my God, My God, why have you forsaken me" if he himself is supposedly that God?

Jesus was dying on the cross as a man. Here God the father was sacrificing him for the sins of the whole world. He has turned his back on Christ. The union between the father and the son is no longer there and here Jesus felt forsaken( he was talking like a man).

ebamma:
and this says that he is an atheist?,
dude go pray last salat prayer for mosque abeg

Oops, looks like I touched a nerve...lol

AgentOfAllah:


Oops, looks like I touched a nerve...lol

whose nerve?, abeg go sleep, You jump and threads on here and claim to be an atheist, but if we do a review of your comments, we go know say u still be aboki were dey carry kettle