"Aren't all religions basically the same?" http:///JSDo8s0ivT

ihedinobi2:


Why do you expect me to quote Bible verses? I thought you know how I discuss religion. Do I quote verses out of hand especially when someone has expressed a lack of confidence in the Bible as we know it? You give me far less credit than I deserve. Why exactly is that?

To the issue, "Christian who slanders, insults and humiliates others" is an example of an oxymoron, don't you think? What is a Christian other than a human being who lives like Christ or, at least, is devoted to living like Christ? We don't need a Bible verse to establish that, do we? A Christian who does all that stuff frosbel described is a false Christian just like a dollar bill that fails to exhibit all the qualities expected of one produced by your Federal Reserve is a fake bill. It is really very wrong to speak as frosbel did because he defines Christianity without clear reference to the Christ from whom it derives.

About the Bible as a guide, consider this: every discipline, every art, every expression of life has some authority that defines standards regarding it. You, for instance, teach English and creative writing as far as I know. You refer to some authority or authorities to shape every idea you convey or express. If life has an author then that author is not unlikely to set standards in line with their purpose for inventing life. If the author did that then the author would necessarily have to assume the responsibility to preserve those standards in all clarity or else it would be unjust to demand that or expect those they create to live up to them. Assuming that God did in fact give a guide to us in the Bible, he would then be responsible to preserve it pristine and easily communicable and understandable to the least human or else he would be a most unjust God to expect everyone to live according to it.

For this reason, it makes no sense to me that we should assume that God neglected to ensure that during translation and compilation the Bible's quality was always preserved. If God were a being limited by time in that he could die and be absent from events like those then it would be expected that his standards would fall into ruin but he is necessarily an eternal being and everything that exists is directly or indirectly his invention. So it is contrary to reason that he did not preserve the Bible whole regardless by whose hands it was handled.

You have said that "too many men" did such and such but have you thought about it? How many is too many? How did you decide that those who handled the Bible were too many? How many would be ideal?

Finally, do you notice that you are picking and choosing what to believe? You deliberately reject the Bible as an authority to define your beliefs. But you subscribe to Christianity - or Christ Jesus, if you prefer. That raises the question: 'what defines your beliefs as a Christian?' Also, why are you convinced that God wants anyone or everyone to return and that there is more than Heaven and Hell? Are you inventing these beliefs yourself or are you receiving advice from another source? In either case, why do you find it easier to believe your source (whether it is yourself or some external source) than the Bible? I am not asking about your lack of confidence in the Bible, I'm asking about your confidence in what you do derive your beliefs from.

i hope you remember you are discussing with tex? The question are a bit much and her belief isn't exactly fixed.

Ubenedictus:


i hope you remember you are discussing with tex? The question are a bit much and her belief isn't exactly fixed.

I do, bro. I don't think they're too much for her. Why do you think her belief isn't fixed? She says it is.

frosbel:
I believe that all God fearing and honourable people irrespective of religious orientation will be saved into the new kingdom.

The idiocy that only a select group of people are dear to God is akin to supremacist ideology and is counter-productive to the peaceful and loving coexistence between all men.

Christians have totally missed the point and keep condemning and judging other men to a so called hell when the truth is that God is not a Christian and knows of no such religion. God only knows and honours those who practice goodness , equity , fairness and love.

Those deluded ones who keep living like the devil and claim the blood of Jesus as a legal loophole will be in for a shocker.

I will rather be friends with a Muslim who loves his fellow man than a Christian who slanders, insults and humiliates others

Remember ; God sees the heart and not the 'mouth' !

I knew it was a matter of time before you go into apostasy!

Weldone!

Ubenedictus:


i hope you remember you are discussing with tex? The question are a bit much and her belief isn't exactly fixed.

ihedinobi2:


Why do you expect me to quote Bible verses? I thought you know how I discuss religion. Do I quote verses out of hand especially when someone has expressed a lack of confidence in the Bible as we know it? You give me far less credit than I deserve. Why exactly is that?

I guess I never really paid attention. I usually don't get involved in religious discussions anymore. Sorry I don't know how you, yourself, discuss religion without the Bible. I've mostly read your comments on the Christian Chat thread. You use the Bible there.

ihedinobi2:

To the issue, "Christian who slanders, insults and humiliates others" is an example of an oxymoron, don't you think?

Somehow I think that's the ops point. It is mine at any rate.

ihedinobi2:

What is a Christian other than a human being who lives like Christ or, at least, is devoted to living like Christ? We don't need a Bible verse to establish that, do we? A Christian who does all that stuff frosbel described is a false Christian just like a dollar bill that fails to exhibit all the qualities expected of one produced by your Federal Reserve is a fake bill. It is really very wrong to speak as frosbel did because he defines Christianity without clear reference to the Christ from whom it derives.

Again my point

ihedinobi2:

About the Bible as a guide, consider this: every discipline, every art, every expression of life has some authority that defines standards regarding it. You, for instance, teach English and creative writing as far as I know. You refer to some authority or authorities to shape every idea you convey or express. If life has an author then that author is not unlikely to set standards in line with their purpose for inventing life. If the author did that then the author would necessarily have to assume the responsibility to preserve those standards in all clarity or else it would be unjust to demand that or expect those they create to live up to them. Assuming that God did in fact give a guide to us in the Bible, he would then be responsible to preserve it pristine and easily communicable and understandable to the least human or else he would be a most unjust God to expect everyone to live according to it.

Did you really just say this? Let me ask you...How many different ways do people interpret what is in the Bible? Communicable and understandable to the least Human?

How many different Christian religions are there? Of those, how many think they are the only ones who know the full truth? How many think they are the only ones who truly baptize with Jesus Christ's authority? How many think the other religions, even the Christian ones, are not on the right path? How many are totally, off the wall, crazy?

They all use the same book. Why so many different interpretations if it is so easily understood?

ihedinobi2:

For this reason, it makes no sense to me that we should assume that God neglected to ensure that during translation and compilation the Bible's quality was always preserved. If God were a being limited by time in that he could die and be absent from events like those then it would be expected that his standards would fall into ruin but he is necessarily an eternal being and everything that exists is directly or indirectly his invention. So it is contrary to reason that he did not preserve the Bible whole regardless by whose hands it was handled.

I've already addressed this.

ihedinobi2:

You have said that "too many men" did such and such but have you thought about it? How many is too many? How did you decide that those who handled the Bible were too many? How many would be ideal?

Good observation. I concede this point.

I don't know how many. I'm making assumptions. There is actually historical evidence on those who chose the books in the King James Version of the Bible. (the one I like) As for the translations of those books chosen, into Latin... and how many languages before that...who can say?

ihedinobi2:

Finally, do you notice that you are picking and choosing what to believe? You deliberately reject the Bible as an authority to define your beliefs.

Did I reject the Bible? Hmmm

ihedinobi2:

But you subscribe to Christianity - or Christ Jesus, if you prefer. That raises the question: 'what defines your beliefs as a Christian?' Also, why are you convinced that God wants anyone or everyone to return and that there is more than Heaven and Hell? Are you inventing these beliefs yourself or are you receiving advice from another source?

Ahhh there it is...I subscribe to Christianity. I was raised a Mormon. That would explain where the occasional "odd" belief comes in. I haven't been a practicing member for some time though.

I do believe the Bible to be true, as far as it is translated correctly. There are a few other things I was taught growing up that make me question some of it.

I have had a very close relationship with God all my life. I have asked Him about many things. I believed the things I was taught growing up. Some of it is less easy to swallow as an adult. I believe it was what I needed at the time. My faith in Jesus Christ most certainly saved my life growing up.

I have fallen away from much of my belief system. It troubles me yes. I do still cling to my Christian values and beliefs though.

ihedinobi2:

In either case, why do you find it easier to believe your source (whether it is yourself or some external source) than the Bible?

I think my upbringing covers this, although...Mormons do believe in the Bible. As teens we go to Seminary for 4 years. Every morning before school we attend a religious study class. Of those 4 years, 2 are spent on studying and memorizing the KJV of the Bible.

ihedinobi2:

I am not asking about your lack of confidence in the Bible, I'm asking about your confidence in what you do derive your beliefs from.

I'm not sure of my confidence in the Church I was raised in. I am sure in the confidence I have in the loving God I know. He loves all his creations. So much so that he wants us all to return to him. I'm not saying we will all be on the same level in His kingdom, but we will all be there in some capacity. I don't believe "fire and brimstone" will be one of those.

Tbh...I'm not sure there is any one true religion. I think there is some good in most religions. For me, I cannot deny Christ. I will never do that.

Because of the love I feel in my heart for all mankind, which is there because of Christ, it is impossible for me to think He would abandon so many of those He loves. There is a plan, even for those who don't believe.

IMHO take it or leave it. I value your opinion and your friendship. Thanks for caring.

texanomaly:

why the face?

You may not remember me, but I discussed with you some time ago and you gave the impression that your thoughts are constantly been reviewed and revised. I can't remember the word you used.

And i believe ihedinobi has too much question in one post

I guess I never really paid attention. I usually don't get involved in religious discussions anymore. Sorry I don't know how you, yourself, discuss religion without the Bible. I've mostly read your comments on the Christian Chat thread. You use the Bible there.



Somehow I think that's the ops point. It is mine at any rate.



Again my point



Did you really just say this? Let me ask you...How many different ways do people interpret what is in the Bible? Communicable and understandable to the least Human?

How many different Christian religions are there? Of those, how many think they are the only ones who know the full truth? How many think they are the only ones who truly baptize with Jesus Christ's authority? How many think the other religions, even the Christian ones, are not on the right path? How many are totally, off the wall, crazy?

They all use the same book. Why so many different interpretations if it is so easily understood?

good questions!

ihedinobi2:


I do, bro. I don't think they're too much for her. Why do you think her belief isn't fixed? She says it is.

hmm, i think it is fixed today, but she is constantly reviewing them and poping questions, i believe her belief is firm particularly where she says she believes in Jesus Christ apart from that and a few others i think she is constantly searching for more answers. I may be wrong but that is what I think.

Lol, someone just said " I cannot deny Christ. I will never do that." For Pete's sake, Pete said that too.

Ubenedictus:


hmm, i think it is fixed today, but she is constantly reviewing them and poping questions, i believe her belief is firm particularly where she says she believes in Jesus Christ apart from that and a few others i think she is constantly searching for more answers. I may be wrong but that is what I think.

You are probably more right than wrong.

point of note, Only 'those' who accept Jesus as their Lord and personal saviour and choose/chosen to follow His footsteps are saved.
so your religion might not be the issue but the issue is, do you accept Jesus Christ? once you don't, you already know where you belong but if you do then, welcome to the household of faith.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

texanomaly:
Because I happen to agree with some of it.

I "liked" this post because I found most of the responses in it to ihedinobi2 agreeable to.

texanomaly:
Especially this:

I believe the Bible is a good guide in some ways. I don't believe the books in the Bible have been translated correctly, or even if the men who chose the books were inspired to choose those particular books.

I completely agree with this, but will tweak it a bit by saying:
"I believe the Bible is a good guide in some ALL ways. I don't believe the ALL books in the Bible have been translated correctly,
or even if the men who chose the books were inspired to choose those particular books"

texanomaly:
Too many men have done the picking and choosing. Too many men have chosen words to replace those words they were unsure of the translation of. Too many men have replaced words that there wasn't a word for in their language.

Are you kidding me with this?! Wow, I completely agree with this too.
In past submissions, I have posted about translators, the politics, their ulterior motives and hidden agenda behind individual bible translations

texanomaly:
I have never believed in only Heaven or Hell. I believe the God of this Earth wants All to return to him, and has prepared "mansions" accordingly. I do believe there will be a judgement. He will judge. Thank God it's not my job, there or here, to judge others.

This almost became predictable, because if not for "Hell" I was nearly 100% agreeing with this.
Hell is a classic example of "Too many men have replaced words that there wasn't a word for in their language"
Jews have no idea of Hell, Jews dont have a Hell, what they have is Sheol
Hell is not Jewish or Aramaic in etymology but actually is an English word based on the Greek concept of a place populated with demons torturing and punishing the dead.
Hell originated from the word Hades, which incidentally is the name of the Greek god, Hades who is in charge of the Greek mythical place of the dead known as the underworld

"mansions", this is a very interesting one. It actually has to do with a Jewish custom prevalent in just before, around and maybe a bit after Jesus' time, am not sure if the practice is still done in Israel or still now done with present Jews
The groom is expected to prepare or build an extension in his father's estate, the extension (i.e. mansion) serves to accomodate the intended bride. The wedding does not take place until when the groom's father is satisfied with the progress and work done by the groom in preparing the extension or building the "mansion"

I completely agree with all you wrote there except for the "hell" choice of word and "I have never believed in only Heaven or Hell" intro.
There is Heaven and there is Sheol, Hell is a Greek concept, never a Jewish one. We can thank the translator for adopting the word Hell/Hades instead of sticking to the original and authentic Sheol word

texanomaly:
Even those who don't worship Christ will have a place in Gods kingdom.
Where that will be I don't know.

Surprises of seeing many, who didn't worship Christ,
being found in the Kingdom of God

Seems we are back on a roll here because I completely agree with all this, however if they will have a place in Gods kingdom, then in the presence of God there is fullness of joy settles "Where that will be I don't know" for me

texanomaly:
I don't believe it will be in eternal torment.

Dont you just love translators, here we have translators again, at work, horrifically mistranslating and mistransliterating something that means permanent correction to eternal torment

texanomaly:
Before you start quoting Bible verses, don't bother. I'm well aware of its contents.

Must admit, frosbel went a bit OTT, a bit off tangent but if frosbel is now tagged a "false Christian" I wonder what Martin Luther is.
Martin Luther did quite a lot of frosbel's and more, the Germans have Martin Luther to thank for having the Bible readily available in their German mother tongue and be aware of its contents

texanomaly:

You are probably more right than wrong.

that statement is very pregnant! How much right and how much wrong?

frosbel:
I believe that all God fearing and honourable people irrespective of religious orientation will be saved into the new kingdom.

The idiocy that only a select group of people are dear to God is akin to supremacist ideology and is counter-productive to the peaceful and loving coexistence between all men.

Christians have totally missed the point and keep condemning and judging other men to a so called hell when the truth is that God is not a Christian and knows of no such religion. God only knows and honours those who practice goodness , equity , fairness and love.

Those deluded ones who keep living like the devil and claim the blood of Jesus as a legal loophole will be in for a shocker.

I will rather be friends with a Muslim who loves his fellow man than a Christian who slanders, insults and humiliates others

Remember ; God sees the heart and not the 'mouth' !

God know and love those who practice love equity, fairness.....thats true.
But remember....you can never, ever practice godliness outside Christ(Word of God). If Christ as a seed(word), did not grow in you, forget about maturity and godliness.

frosbel:


I have only 2 questions for you ;

1. Why is it that people who lived in the Igbo land before Christianity ( I can only speak for my tribe ) were more honourable , truthful , content and loving to their fellow brother ? These days , the more churches we have the more we lose trust, love and integrity. Something is wrong somewhere.

2. What will happen to all my ancestors who never heard about Jesus for thousands of years before the missionaries came and why did God wait for so long for the gospel to reach them. I think this is a valid question.

Read : Isaiah 66:2 and

1. In old days, sin is minimal cos human is minimal also. In this time, population has increase, their by sin has increase also more than before. This now made the church also to increase in other that sin will be put under control. If sin increase more than church, this will make man to become ''BEAST''........ Lawless.
You second question is a mystery which may contradict your belief but its in bible.

texanomaly:
I guess I never really paid attention. I usually don't get involved in religious discussions anymore. Sorry I don't know how you, yourself, discuss religion without the Bible. I've mostly read your comments on the Christian Chat thread. You use the Bible there.

We have met several times on other threads involving atheist/theist debates. I have not engaged seriously in such debates since mid-to-late 2013 but my culture has remained that I will not offer the Bible as an authority in debates with people who question its authority for any reason. It is very very weird that you don't know that. But no matter, if you didn't know before you know it now.

texanomaly:
Somehow I think that's the ops point. It is mine at any rate.



Again my point

I doubt very much that it is frosbel's point. But if it is yours, I'm fine with it.

texanomaly:
Did you really just say this? Let me ask you...How many different ways do people interpret what is in the Bible? Communicable and understandable to the least Human?

How many different Christian religions are there? Of those, how many think they are the only ones who know the full truth? How many think they are the only ones who truly baptize with Jesus Christ's authority? How many think the other religions, even the Christian ones, are not on the right path? How many are totally, off the wall, crazy?

They all use the same book. Why so many different interpretations if it is so easily understood?



I've already addressed this.

Yes I did say that. I hear you and I get what you're saying but think about it. What have you done with all of those questions but say that somehow God lost control of his own guidebook? Do you seriously believe that God is so negligent or lacking of resource that he would allow his standards to be obscured? You are looking at a bilateral issue unilaterally. Man is not the only side of that equation, God is the other side and he is the weightier.

Why are there multiple interpretations? There are two reasons:

1. The Word of God is like white light. There are many shades of meaning to it that are not at all contradictory. It is the foundation of all things, the material out of which everything is made and thus can be found very able to take different shapes and colors as the particular circumstance requires. That is not a bad thing, on the contrary, it is evidence of God's intimate involvement and concern with the details of our lives.

2. The arrogance of man drives him to bend everything into what shape suits him best. The Word of God is not exempt from the things that man attempts to shape to suit his pet pleasures. But there is one question: if it is the Word of God it must be a hardy material to shape to suit anything but God's own desires, must it not? Thus it must be impossible to interpret the Word of God as just anyone pleases. If it is, then where there are contradictory interpretations, they must be caricatures or fakes of the real thing. In that case, there must be some fundamental feature of the Word of God that easily separates the original from the fake, something that says, "no, God did not and could never have said that, what he did say is that instead."

texanomaly:
Good observation. I concede this point.

I don't know how many. I'm making assumptions. There is actually historical evidence on those who chose the books in the King James Version of the Bible. (the one I like) As for the translations of those books chosen, into Latin... and how many languages before that...who can say?

When we worry about the human element involved in selecting books and then translating them, we can carry the worry as far as far even writing the books in the first place. To "create" the Bible God used men to write, to select books and to translate them. Men were involved all the time because God was communicating divine realities to human beings not to divine beings like himself. The interface had to have a human element. Or else the Bible will be profoundly meaningless, impossible to understand for us.

Granted, man is a problematic tool to use but is God the sum of all wisdom or is he not? Does he know how to beat and maybe even harness man's native weaknesses to serve his purposes or does he not? I think that it is immediately obvious how ludicrous it is to believe that he is incapable of using imperfect man to do a perfect job. The historical evidence you spoke of (some of which I personally know) will certainly show these weaknesses but they will not prove that these weaknesses of man make it impossible for God to fulfill his responsibility to man in providing a guideline that everyone can understand and subscribe to.

Let me give you an example. I was wary of the myriad translations which many times translated statements differently (not necessarily contradictorily, but we all get worried about the use of even a different punctuation mark when it is something like the Bible or any other point of reference from which the fates of human lives are thought to hang) but then I ventured to read different translations. I took up the Catholic Bible - typically Good News Version but with the Apocrypha (I was brought up half Catholic anyway), the NIV, the Amplified, the NLT, the JW Bible and more. I soon learned that even when one translation was made with the deliberate purpose of editing out (or in) some tenet in another or other translations, they ended up either contradicting themselves and thus losing credibility or else they just preserved the original thing with different words.

The JW Bible, for instance, tried to obliterate the doctrine of the Trinity and ended up with curious statements. For example, John 1:1 says in all other translations I know that "in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God". In the JW Bible, it ended up saying that "the Word was a god". But JW beliefs do not accommodate polytheism. And that just leaves you wondering what happened there.

Of course there are other examples from other translations made by other organizations. We don't need to go into them all though.

texanomaly:
Did I reject the Bible? Hmmm

Do you believe everything you read in the Bible?

texanomaly:
Ahhh there it is...I subscribe to Christianity. I was raised a Mormon. That would explain where the occasional "odd" belief comes in. I haven't been a practicing member for some time though.

Ok. I know Mormonism.

texanomaly:
I do believe the Bible to be true, as far as it is translated correctly. There are a few other things I was taught growing up that make me question some of it.

As I already explained, translation is not the problem any more than the writing in the first place is. If you believe the Bible, you believe the Bible. The activities and even manifest intents of the men who wrote, compiled or translated will only strengthen your confidence in it, not weaken it.

I agree that you have reason to question.

texanomaly:
I have had a very close relationship with God all my life. I have asked Him about many things. I believed the things I was taught growing up. Some of it is less easy to swallow as an adult. I believe it was what I needed at the time. My faith in Jesus Christ most certainly saved my life growing up.

I have fallen away from much of my belief system. It troubles me yes. I do still cling to my Christian values and beliefs though.

I understand. One reason I feel a lot like an outsider is my near-total, if not total, lack of confidence in institutions. I also questioned a lot of things and decided to go to the source myself because I found a lot of answers people gave me too hard to swallow. I have no problem with that. In fact, I commend you and I do know how it feels to strike out on your own. That is why you get troubled and perhaps often wonder if you are getting it right because why are you the only one or one of the few striking out? You can't be so smart or special to have learned the Truth when no one else has, can you? That's how I felt a lot and still feel sometimes. Maybe your experience is different.

texanomaly:
I think my upbringing covers this, although...Mormons do believe in the Bible. As teens we go to Seminary for 4 years. Every morning before school we attend a religious study class. Of those 4 years, 2 are spent on studying and memorizing the KJV of the Bible.

That's intense. But I understand. And yes, I know that Mormons claim to believe the Bible and claim it as one of their two authorities.

texanomaly:
I'm not sure of my confidence in the Church I was raised in. I am sure in the confidence I have in the loving God I know. He loves all his creations. So much so that he wants us all to return to him. I'm not saying we will all be on the same level in His kingdom, but we will all be there in some capacity. I don't believe "fire and brimstone" will be one of those.

I can understand about the church you were raised in. Like I said, I was raised half-Catholic and half-Methodist. I am neither today and although they were not as much of a closed system as Mormons are they have their challenges. My confidence is in Christ himself and when I read the Bible I do so "with understanding" or, in today's speech, critically. I think about what it says and discuss it with other people to make sure I get it right. I am not interested in reading it to justify anything or approve any existing system.

Now, do you know any translation OR why do you feel so certain that '"fire and brimstone" will not be one of them'?

texanomaly:
Tbh...I'm not sure there is any one true religion. I think there is some good in most religions. For me, I cannot deny Christ. I will never do that.

Some good in a religion does not thus make it one of the true ones. A truth is often used to send the lie much farther and root it more deeply.

I am glad that you don't want to ever deny him but if it is the same Christ who claimed that he alone is the way (to God), the Truth and the Life then with your first two sentences you already denied him. He doesn't mince words about the fact that God has chosen him alone as the bridge between deity and mankind.

texanomaly:
Because of the love I feel in my heart for all mankind, which is there because of Christ, it is impossible for me to think He would abandon so many of those He loves. There is a plan, even for those who don't believe.

You seem to think that love has no hard side. What is a God of Love going to do with Satan other than what Jesus said he will do? Is it love to subject humanity to eternity with the scourge of sin? How will God eradicate all wrongdoing so that we can live in peace without facing or giving injury for the rest of eternity?

texanomaly:
IMHO take it or leave it. I value your opinion and your friendship. Thanks for caring.

This is a poor way to go about learning or finding Truth. What you end up doing is making up your own and hardening yourself in an unrepentant state of error. The supposition is that when you face God you can sort everything out there but if he can speak to you today and you don't listen how are you so sure what he says will be any more compelling then? I believe that there is safety in a company of advisers. You can question and think among them and come to some reasonable understanding that keeps you open to learning more truth.

All the same, I am glad you shared what you think. And I value your thoughts and friendship as well.

Ubenedictus:


that statement is very pregnant! How much right and how much wrong?

Thanks for the comments. I've said everything I wanted to say. I love "The first few minutes of Hell". Hilarious!

urheme:



Abraham, elijah, moses, noah, david, solomon and many more did not have jesus the christ,

I ges there are many more ways

Read 1 peter 3:19, 20. Christ preach a gospel to them that die when he went to 3 days journey to underworld.
The answer to many question on this planet earth is in The Bible, if u seek for it, then you will see the answer.

MuttleyLaff:

I completely agree with this, but will tweak it a bit by saying:
"I believe the Bible is a good guide in some ALL ways. I don't believe the ALL books in the Bible have been translated correctly,
or even if the men who chose the books were inspired to choose those particular books"

Are you kidding me with this?! Wow, I completely agree with this too.
In past submissions, I have posted about translators, the politics, their ulterior motives and hidden agenda behind individual bible translations

This almost became predictable, because if not for "Hell" I was nearly 100% agreeing with this.
Hell is a classic example of "Too many men have replaced words that there wasn't a word for in their language"
Jews have no idea of Hell, Jews dont have a Hell, what they have is Sheol
Hell is not Jewish or Aramaic in etymology but actually is an English word based on the Greek concept of a place populated with demons torturing and punishing the dead.
Hell originated from the word Hades, which incidentally is the name of the Greek god, Hades who is in charge of the Greek mythical place of the dead known as the underworld

I completely agree with all you wrote there except for the "hell" choice of word and "I have never believed in only Heaven or Hell" intro.
There is Heaven and there is Sheol, Hell is a Greek concept, never a Jewish one. We can thank the translator for adopting the word Hell/Hades instead of sticking to the original and authentic Sheol word


Surprises of seeing many, who didn't worship Christ,
being found in the Kingdom of God

Seems we are back on a roll here because I completely agree with all this, however if they will have a place in Gods kingdom, then in the presence of God there is fullness of joy settles "Where that will be I don't know" for me

Dont you just love translators, here we have translators again, at work, horrifically mistranslating and mistransliterating something that means permanent correction to eternal torment

Must admit, frosbel went a bit OTT, a bit off tangent but if frosbel is now tagged a "false Christian" I wonder what Martin Luther is.
Martin Luther did quite a lot of frosbel's and more, the Germans have Martin Luther to thank for having the Bible readily available in their German mother tongue and be aware of its contents

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Gnoni. Many times, we humans overate ourselves. However, the fact remains that God was perfectly happy and satisfied before He created us, and He will be happy and satisfied without us.
Isa 40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isa 40:18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.



The Bible clearly states that God is angry with the wicked every day. Since the time of Adam, the wicked that have died are not with God, i do not see why God will miss them that much in the future. satan the devil was closer to God than many men, yet He will spend eternity in hell. God wants us all to spend eternity with Him and many many will, but they will all be people who have the Christ.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

It's either Jesus is saying the truth or He is not.

Image123:


Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Gnoni. Many times, we humans overate ourselves. However, the fact remains that God was perfectly happy and satisfied before He created us, and He will be happy and satisfied without us.
Isa 40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isa 40:18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.



The Bible clearly states that God is angry with the wicked every day. Since the time of Adam, the wicked that have died are not with God, i do not see why God will miss them that much in the future. satan the devil was closer to God than many men, yet He will spend eternity in hell. God wants us all to spend eternity with Him and many many will, but they will all be people who have the Christ.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

It's either Jesus is saying the truth or He is not.

Christ is never a liar. Just that lack of understanding of The Word of God causes ignorant, double mind and unbelief to man

Great0:

Christ is never a liar. Just that lack of understanding of The Word of God causes ignorant, double mind and unbelief to man

Of course, frosb is definitely the liar.

ihedinobi2:


1. Trinity


2. I believe that there is safety in a company of advisers. You can question and think among them and come to some reasonable understanding that keeps you open to learning more truth.



3. think about what it says and discuss it with other people to make sure I get it right.

4. I am glad that you don't want to ever deny him but if it is the same Christ who claimed that he alone is the way (to God), the Truth and the Life then with your first two sentences you already denied him.

*sigh* I'll be honest. I was going to ignore your reply. Sorry. I will address a few things, though somehow I think we've highjacked this thread.


1. I don't accept the concept of the Trinity. It makes no sense. I've had it explained to me in a million ways, (obvious exaggeration) many ways by quite a few people from different religions. It makes no sense to me. Anyway I don't subscribe to it.

I believe God and Jesus Christ are two separate beings. The Holy Ghost is a spirit being...and no I won't give you proofs. Both concepts are in the Bible, another one of those contradictions so...

2. I'm still here reading aren't I?

3. hmmmm...I thought that's what we are doing.

4. Ahhh...I used the wrong word there. I meant sect not religion. I still don't believe those good people who are not Christians are automatically relegated to "Hell".

Ok now to "take it or leave it". That was my way backing off and hoping you'd take the hint that I wanted to sit back a read. Sorry about that. That's one of those female traits I've tried to crush. Many of us seem to think you men should read our minds. Crazy I know. Just because I don't like to debate doesn't mean I'm not listening.

Finally: I'll be clear this time. I DON't WANT TO DEBATE.

If you'd like to reply me here, that's great. I'll certainly read and contemplate anything you have to say. I just prefer to take a step back and observe from here. Thanks

Great0:

Read 1 peter 3:19, 20. Christ preach a gospel to them that die when he went to 3 days journey to underworld.
The answer to many question on this planet earth is in The Bible, if u seek for it, then you will see the answer.

Read it and it says christ preached to imprisoned sprits of those who did not obey God. So you are trying to say that be4 christ, non of them obeyed God,

The good samaritan did not know christ but his action was approved( though a parable). The only jesus we will ever know is us, you have refused to know christ, he has come to you several times as a begger, widow, fatherless and mother, madman and woman, he was also in the hospital bed sick and waiting for you to come and accept him,but you felt that cannot be christ because he was dirty, poor, smelling with a terminal disease. Shame on you

Christ is waiting for you in ebola camp, he need you to come praise and worship him there

Frosbel; deceiving himself since long trousers.... Chineke mere gi ebere nwannem.

The very basis for the popular "Come unto Me, all ye that labour" call.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Human wishes and opinions cannot change the standard and the Word of God, He that sits in heaven will only laugh.

Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Psa 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

texanomaly:
Thanks for the comments. I've said everything I wanted to say.
I love "The first few minutes of Hell". Hilarious!

"The first few minutes of Hell"?
Is this you turning the original "The first few minutes of Heaven" on it's head Or you fat-fingered Hell in?

Image123:
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Gnoni. Many times, we humans overate ourselves.
However, the fact remains that God was perfectly happy and satisfied before He created us, and He will be happy and satisfied without us.
Isa 40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isa 40:18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.

God knows the end from the beginning

Isaiah 46:10
Only I can tell you the future before it even happens. Everything I plan will come to pass, for I do whatever I wish.

Temporarily forget whatever frosbel has written or posted in the past, just examine the thread's topic and judge it on its own merits
Regardless of the contents of the original post which certainly went off tangent, the thread's heading or topic is not a lie

If according to scripture, it is Jesus who will be doing the judging,
then there is a good chance of likely surprises of non-"christians" saved and springing up in the Kingdom of Heaven

Image123:
The Bible clearly states that God is angry with the wicked every day.
Since the time of Adam, the wicked that have died are not with God, i do not see why God will miss them that much in the future.

The not-wicked too, since the time of Adam, that have died, are not with God too.
The fact of the matter is, God wishes no soul perish, He wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
The key phrase in the last sentence above there is "...come to a knowledge of the truth" (i.e. it's very important to take note of it)

Image123:
satan the devil was closer to God than many men, yet He will spend eternity in hell.

Are you sure it is hell satan is rendezvoused to spend eternity.
I'll leave the not correct "hell" satan's final destination for you to address or do the needful to.

Image123:
God wants us all to spend eternity with Him and many many will, but they will all be people who have the Christ.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Psalm 115:16
The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to mankind.

Acts 7:49a
"Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool..."

What God REALLY wants is the RELATIONSHIP and/or fellowship
God can and/or will always visit as He usually did in the beginning with Adam, in Eden
Visiting, that's how God in the beginning spent time with man

In short, what God is REALLY after, like it was in the beginning, is that lost RELATIONSHIP and/or fellowship with man.
This restoration is good news, as the RELATIONSHIP is now stronger and deeper.
Stronger and deeper in the sense that, the Lord God not only is endearing but has become and is now, God the Father

Image123:
It's either Jesus is saying thetruth or He is not.

With Romans 2:11-16 in mind, Jesus and frosbel in different perspectives, are both saying the truth
Jesus is the way through which to have salvation, however the exceptional circumstance cases who didn't know Jesus would be saved too
The latter is what frosbel tried with the heading to bring attention to
but he is getting judged on his past posts and the overzealous in the original post, therefore receiving all these very unpleasant earfuls over the topic

urheme:


Read it and it says christ preached to imprisoned sprits of those who did not obey God. So you are trying to say that be4 christ, non of them obeyed God,

The good samaritan did not know christ but his action was approved( though a parable). The only jesus we will ever know is us, you have refused to know christ, he has come to you several times as a begger, widow, fatherless and mother, madman and woman, he was also in the hospital bed sick and waiting for you to come and accept him,but you felt that cannot be christ because he was dirty, poor, smelling with a terminal disease. Shame on you

Christ is waiting for you in ebola camp, he need you to come praise and worship him there

Bro, not that they did not obey God. They obey God in flesh, but the law is hard for them to keep. They did not have the Spirit in them that will empower them for total obedience of the Word of God. Satan hold many souls in prison cox of sin, so for them to be librated, Christ came. But satan was ignorant of christ coming for redemption, thats why scripture said if they have known they will not have crucify the king of Glory(1 corinthian 2:7,.

texanomaly:


Thanks for the comments. I've said everything I wanted to say. I love "The first few minutes of Hell". Hilarious!

thats wicked!

So you won't be telling be how bad my silly guess was?...


"the first few minutes of..." wasn't posted by me.


It seems you are a bit tired.

Ubenedictus:



thats wicked!

So you won't be telling be how bad my silly guess was?...


"the first few minutes of..." wasn't posted by me.


It seems you are a bit tired.

Oops. I thought it was yours.

As for your guess...You know me way better than you should.

MuttleyLaff:
"The first few minutes of Hell"?
Is this you turning the original "The first few minutes of Heaven" on it's head Or you fat-fingered Hell in?

Sorry I misquoted. It was funny.

Great0:

Bro, not that they did not obey God. They obey God in flesh, but the law is hard for them to keep. They did not have the Spirit in them that will empower them for total obedience of the Word of God. Satan hold many souls in prison cox of sin, so for them to be librated, Christ came. But satan was ignorant of christ coming for redemption, thats why scripture said if they have known they will not have crucify the king of Glory(1 corinthian 2:7,.

You must be a catholic, they preach the doctrine of pugatory, there is no repentance after death