AugustineAgain:


All 20 capabilities and info do not exist for ATR-42 Surveryor?

Well, if you would go ahead and provide some evidence, we could see if it can exist on a ATR-42 surveyor

Then, you can go ahead and show us that YOUR ATR-42 has ALL the capabilities

AugustineAgain:


Primary MPA + Primary ELINT ISTAR + Secondary AWACS

dude, whatever, I dont care anymore

patches689:


Post it

We have asked many many times

This thread is not a debate venue for throwing weblinks around in argument.

patches689:


dude, whatever, I dont care anymore

Stop rubbishing other countries equipment. Keep your vendetta and envy off this thread.

AugustineAgain:


Don't confuse SIGNIT different elements of COMINT vs ELINT.

You posted an American RC-12N aircraft enhanced for COMINT not ISTAR enhanced, where is it's ground search radar ?

It's folly to compare ATR-42 to that type of 'radar-less' aircraft you posted, that's a mere army only aircraft, it's useless to navy and air force, it cannot do ISTAR and AWAC roles like the ATR-42.

ELINT is housed in the SATCOM dome atop the spine of NAF ATR-42.

Does RAF Sentinel have all those antennae on the American plane ? Yet the Sentinel is likely the best ISTAR platform in this world.

Old FLIR ? ATR-42 Surveyor is a modern aircraft that came into operation in year 2008, the FLIR is also 2008, is that what you call old ?

Please find another customer to send to those your guys for FLIR upgrade, NAF ATR-42 is good with it's year 2008 ultra-modern FLIR.

All your points are incorrect, sorry sir.

By the way, why is every non-Nigerian obsessed with NAF ATR-42 Surveyor? Any good post on it's awesome capability provokes an attack !
.

the term ISTAR is Intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance ATR-42 Surveyor can't [b]target acquisition[/b]what it is capable of is Intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance ,to target acquisition your FLIR pod has to target designate .which ATR-42 Surveyor pod's can't

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeQlkvzLGY4

AugustineAgain:


Stop rubbishing other countries equipment. Keep your vendetta and envy off this thread.

I am rubbishing your posts not your equipment

ATR42 is an excellent MPA platform, I would be thrilled if SAAF acquired it. But does not posses the capabilities you claim and it is not some bizarre ISTAR + ELINT + SIGNIT + MPA + AWAC platform

Keep the propaganda to the other thread.

AugustineAgain:


This thread is not a debate venue for throwing weblinks around in argument.

You said you would post the citations if we asked.

We asked - so post them here or post them in the other thread.

africaken:
the term ISTAR is Intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance ATR-42 Surveyor can't [b]target acquisition[/b]what it is capable of is Intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance ,to target acquisition your FLIR pod has to target designate .which ATR-42 Surveyor pod's can't

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeQlkvzLGY4

Target Acquisition Definition :

"The detection, identification, and location of a target in sufficient detail to permit the effective employment of weapons."

http://www.militaryfactory.com/dictionary/military-terms-defined.asp?term_id=5311

Photo below shows NAF ATR-42 detecting, identifying, and displaying precise GPS location of an enemy land combat vehicle in real war.

Dude, so it's not about your false information on old FLIR again? You said ATR-42 FLIR of year 2008 is old, mixed up COMINT antennae with ELINT dome....Now its target it cannot acquire.

Stop delving into military stuff you know nothing about, stcik to your lovely photos, major on what you are good at.

Thank you sir.

PHOTO : NAF ATR-42 SURVEYOR DOING TARGET ACQUISITION IN COMBAT
.

AugustineAgain:


Primary MPA + Primary ELINT ISTAR + Secondary AWACS multi-role platform.

Hero of ground battles against Boko Haram, leading battlefield surveillance, command and control. War history proves that to the whole world
.

Your pictures show an MPA platform using FLIR to monitor ground forces.

Thats not ISTAR or ELINT or AWAC

Thats just MPA using its basic capabilities to perform essentially the same task - but instead of looking at boats its looking at cars

AugustineAgain:


Target Acquisition Definition :

"The detection, identification, and location of a target in sufficient detail to permit the effective employment of weapons."

http://www.militaryfactory.com/dictionary/military-terms-defined.asp?term_id=5311

The photo below shows ATR-42 detecting, identifying, and displaying precise GPS location of an enemy land combat vehicle in real war.

Dude, so it's not about your false information on old FLIR again? You said ATR-42 FLIR of year 2008 is old....Now its target it cannot acquire.

Stop delving into military stuff you know nothing about, stcik to your lovely photos, major on what you are good at.

Thank you sir.

PHOTO : NAF ATR-42 SURVEYOR DOING TARGET ACQUISITION IN COMBAT
.

Why do you post on this thread in such an insulting manner?

Why do you abuse members of this forum?

Why do you say others must not argue, but then post argumentative posts?

You should stick to the other thread

Anyway, moving away from the uncourteous and uncouth behavior of a certain poster.


Angola has received its first Su30MK's (12 in total to be acquired) - and even despite my disdain for most Russian equipment, I must say they are very impressive platforms.

AugustineAgain:


Target Acquisition Definition :

"The detection, identification, and location of a target in sufficient detail to permit the effective employment of weapons."

http://www.militaryfactory.com/dictionary/military-terms-defined.asp?term_id=5311

The photo below shows ATR-42 detecting, identifying, and displaying precise GPS location of an enemy land combat vehicle in real war.

Dude, so it's not about your false information on old FLIR again? You said ATR-42 FLIR of year 2008 is old....Now its target it cannot acquire.

Stop delving into military stuff you know nothing about, stcik to your lovely photos, major on what you are good at.

Thank you sir.

PHOTO : NAF ATR-42 SURVEYOR DOING TARGET ACQUISITION IN COMBAT
.

if your that knowledgeable tell us the type of pod it is ? also read carefully " location of a target in sufficient detail to permit the effective employment of lethal and non-lethal means. now give us information which show ATR-42 pod has a laser designator to give precise GPS coordinates or your talking about visual confirmation

patches689:


I am rubbishing your posts not your equipment

ATR42 is an excellent MPA platform, I would be thrilled if SAAF acquired it. But does not posses the capabilities you claim and it is not some bizarre ISTAR + ELINT + SIGNIT + MPA + AWAC platform

Keep the propaganda to the other thread.

ATR 42 it radar is only able see objects fly below it.it is meant to see air crafts
e.g rotary , fixed wing or sea skimming missiles .you can't compare it to Grumman E-2C Hawkeye,E-3 Sentry e.t.c

Namibian Air Force-Basic air supply

africaken:
if your that knowledgeable tell us the type of pod it is ? also read carefully " location of a target in sufficient detail to permit the effective employment of lethal and non-lethal means. now give us information which show ATR-42 pod has a laser designator to give precise GPS coordinates or your talking about visual confirmation

You go first, tell us what type of FLIR pod is on ATR-42 since you first declared that it is old.

Show us where laser designator is part of the tools for target acquisition by ISTAR aircraft.

The NAF ATR-42 has done target acquisition and automatically displays sufficient detail of the North Easter Nigeria Boko Haram target likely a APC or tank at precise location North 11.38.02 East 13.26.33

That is what is called target acquisition, if the vehicle moves, the GPS data on the screen will begin to auto adjust and display position data, the target is locked for a k.ill by NAF or NA, that Boko will be blown to pieces by attack platforms.

Laser designator is for guiding launched weapons/attack munitions from ground attack aircraft.

Show us laser designator on British RAF Sentinel, one of the best ISTAR aircraft in the world.

africaken:
ATR 42 it radar is only able see objects fly below it.it is meant to see air crafts
e.g rotary , fixed wing or sea skimming missiles .you can't compare it to Grumman E-2C Hawkeye,E-3 Sentry e.t.c

It is called secondary AWACS air search role. Same way E-2C has secondary surface search role like MPA.

When you combine all those roles on one platform, it is called MULTI-PURPOSE ISTAR aircraft.

your not the first to use MPA to carry our Intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance ,the did that in the battle for N'Djamena using Br.1150 Atlantic Atlantique 2

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrzbXkt4VH4

now they have upgraded them with MX-20D which they use to designate GBU-12 which it can carry

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqaDTEIyEL4

The French Navy (Marine Nationale) announced that on 18 June 2015, two Atlantique 2 (ATL2) maritime patrol crews were qualified to GBU-12 Paveway II laser guided bomb shooting procedures with self-designation. This flight marked the end of a training course which confronted crews to modern technologies used in air-to-ground support missions thanks to the Wescam MX-20D electro-optical turret fitted on ATL2 Standard V.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2848

patches689:


Why do you post on this thread in such an insulting manner?

Why do you abuse members of this forum?

Why do you say others must not argue, but then post argumentative posts?

You should stick to the other thread

Quote where I insulted or abused anybody here, I never did that. I addressed him politely as 'sir', do you ever do that ?

Why should I be quiet if people post false data instead of argument? He said ATR-42 FLIR is old, yet he is asking me the name of the FLIR, so how did he know it is old, why was he saying NAF should go upgrade it? He does not even know the name of the FLIR.

You said NAF ATR-42 has no ELINT capability, I have posted 3 different photos of it's SATCOM dome form 3 different angles, so why should I keep quite if people that have zero proof still go ahead and mislead the forum with wrong data when evidence shows them wrong?

You should learn to be honest and avoid animosity or vendetta.

africaken:
your not the first to use MPA to carry our Intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance ,the did that in the battle for N'Djamena using Br.1150 Atlantic Atlantique 2

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqaDTEIyEL4

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2848

You posted an anti-submarine warfare aircraft built for attack with weapons, how does that relate to an ATR-42 ?

RAF Sentinel is ISTAR but carries no weapons.

Your own source also calls that French MPA an ISR platform that operates in desert. You confuse yourself and defeat your own argument.

Many equipment do have primary role and secondary roles combined on one single platform.

AugustineAgain:


Quote where I insulted or abused anybody here, I never did that. I addressed him politely as 'sir', do you ever do that ?

Why should I be quiet if people post false data instead of argument? He said ATR-42 FLIR is old, yet he is asking me the name of the FLIR, so how did he know it is old, why was he saying NAF should go upgrade it? He does not even know the name of the FLIR.

You said NAF ATR-42 has no ELINT capability, I have posted 3 different photos of it's SATCOM dome form 3 different angles, so why should I keep quite if people that have zero proof still go ahead and mislead the forum with wrong data when evidence shows them wrong?

You should learn to be honest and avoid animosity or vendetta.

the same way a phone you bought in 2008 can't be compare with another in 2014.i am the one who asked you to give us the identity of the EO/IR pod also the radar if you can ? jesus any aircraft can have SATCOM ,you really need to do some reading signal/electronic/communication intelligence

AugustineAgain:


You go first, tell us what type of FLIR pod is on ATR-42 since you first declared that it is old.

Show us where laser designator is part of the tools for target acquisition by ISTAR aircraft.

Laser designator is for guiding launched weapons/attack munitions from ground attack aircraft.

Show us laser designator on British RAF Sentinel, one of the best ISTAR aircraft in the world.

Augustus

Why are you so aggressive and argumentative?

Just post this citation you have of ATR42 capabilities and equipment

AugustineAgain:


It is called secondary AWACS air search role. Same way E-2C has secondary surface search role like MPA.

When you combine all those roles on one platform, it is called MULTI-PURPOSE ISTAR aircraft.

Dude, just stop with the BS.

This is not the place for it

AugustineAgain:


Quote where I insulted or abused anybody here, I never did that. I addressed him politely as 'sir', do you ever do that ?

Why should I be quiet if people post false data instead of argument? He said ATR-42 FLIR is old, yet he is asking me the name of the FLIR, so how did he know it is old, why was he saying NAF should go upgrade it? He does not even know the name of the FLIR.

You said NAF ATR-42 has no ELINT capability, I have posted 3 different photos of it's SATCOM dome form 3 different angles, so why should I keep quite if people that have zero proof still go ahead and mislead the forum with wrong data when evidence shows them wrong?

You should learn to be honest and avoid animosity or vendetta.

Augustus, the insults in that post are clear to see. A passive-aggressive insult is still an insult.

Now, dont talk about false data when you have come here with a long list of capabilities for the ATR42... which when we ask you for proof of your claims you refuse to post. It seems that you dont know the name of the FLIR Pod either.

You say it is a SATCOM dome, but what actual evidence do you have to substantiate these claims? You have zero proof, a dome is a dome, until proven what the dome is, it is simply a dome.

Do not speak to me of honest or animosity when you are the one whom has come here with wild claims, become evasive when asked to substantiate them and then proceeded to insult multiple members of this forum

This thread was a harmonious place before your arrival, multiple members shared pictures and thoughts of/on multiple topics and a gentlemanly decorum was maintained. Your arrival has caused nothing but argument and (on your part) the abuse of forum members.

patches689:


Augustus, the insults in that post are clear to see.

Now, dont talk about false data when you have come here with a long list of capabilities for the ATR42... which when we ask you for proof of your claims you refuse to post. It seems that you dont know the name of the FLIR Pod either.

You say it is a SATCOM dome, but what actual evidence do you have to substantiate these claims? You have zero proof, a dome is a dome, until proven what the dome is, it is simply a dome.

Do not speak to me of honest or animosity when you are the one whom has come here with wild claims, become evasive when asked to substantiate them and then proceeded to insult multiple members of this forum

Still, you cannot quote where I insulted anybody here.

I have no argument with multiple members, just you and africaken posting wrong data which you want to force the forum to swallow.

The members of this forum should learn how ask questions when in doubt, don't just say something is a lie.

NAF ATR-42 Surveyor has ELINT capability complement of the SATCOM dome.

If you don't know the what ELINT and SATCOM domes look like, be humble enough to ask for help.

"A KU-band satellite communication (SATCOM) system has been integrated in Nigerian Air Force aircraft, thus increasing the communication capabilities of the ATR 42MP."

http://www.aleniaaermacchi.it/documents/8005615/21800095/body_AleniaAermacchi_ATR42MP_ENG_2014.pdf

I have proof for all my 20 claims on NAF ATR-42 Surveyor, nobody will force me to post them, I do so when I like to. My Human Rights
.

africaken:
the same way a phone you bought in 2008 can't be compare with another in 2014.i am the one who asked you to give us the identity of the EO/IR pod also the radar if you can ? jesus any aircraft can have SATCOM ,you really need to do some reading signal/electronic/communication intelligence

We are talking about military grade external SATCOM domes for long range military intelligence aircraft used in war not civilian commercial travelers transportation, not British airways or KLM airlines.

If NAF ATR-42 FLIR is old because it was made in 2008, how many aircraft in this world have 2014 FLIR on them ?

How many air forces in this world change FLIR every year ? Has the Italian manufacturer declared it obsolete after 2008 ?

Later Patches will say I am insulting you, now you too look at the kind of stuff you are writing here, you want the whole world to buy 2014 FLIR on all aircraft otherwise their FLIR is old and due for upgrade in a company that you recommend ?

What's the problem with the head of we Africans? What's the problem really?

AugustineAgain:


We are talking about military grade external SATCOM domes for long range military intelligence aircraft used in war not civilian commercial travelers transportation, not British airways or KLM airlines.

If NAF ATR-42 FLIR is old because it was made in 2008, how many aircraft in this world have 2014 FLIR on them ?

How many air forces in this world change FLIR every year ? Has the Italian manufacturer declared it obsolete after 2008 ?

Later Patches will say I am insulting you, now you too look at the kind of stuff you are writing here, you want the whole world to buy 2014 FLIR on all aircraft otherwise their FLIR is old and due for upgrade in a company that you recommend ?

What's the problem with the head of we Africans? What's the problem really?

having SATCOM only means it can communicate over the horizon and even encrypted that has nothing to do with electronic intelligence.it has electronic intelligence capability but you can't compare it with aircrafts such as Boeing RC-135,RC-12 N Guardrail whose exclusively role is signal intelligence .also you can't ATR-42 to have the ability to intercept mobile phones calls,it was meant for maritime use intercepting ships comms,radars e.t.c

those antennaes circled are for electronic intelligence gathering,now i am still waiting for your answer

You guys should stop all these child's play

AugustineAgain:


There is nothing there that shows ATR-42 radar range and tracking specs. Quote the data if you have it, and tell us what page on that PDF
.

Yes mate ill post the PDF file tomorrow.

patches689:


It said 3

It has been investigated under Project Millennium

Doubt we will every see a true LHD though, let alone three.

Probably something limited like the Endurance class LPD

I think the best option for SAN would be a LHP/AUX hybrid, something that can preform both the LHP and Auxiliary role.. Maybe that way we can kill 2 birds with one stone, thus a ship that can fufill the requirement for project millennium and a Drakies replacement.

gottfried21:

Kasikili/Sedudu
Part 2?

I dont think so....

Moving on

Pic1: Namibian Marines
Pic2: Namibian navy sailors
Pic3: SADF Oliphant in Outapi,Northern Namibia,pre independence days