Great0:
No man including Elijah and Enoch has gone to heaven. Its only Jesus that ascended there.
Then where are Enoch and Elijah.....they are all with all the saints in Abraham bosom waiting to be rapture first before the living ones.

MizJanet:


Lol, you christians always amuse me with quotes you yourself dont understand in your own bible .

In your Bible , is it not clear that Noah died before Abraham , so how can Noah die and go to the bossom of Abraham ?

Great0:

let me explain it to you well.
Noah died before Abraham. That will not make the place to Answer Noah bosom. The bosom is the name of the place not that Abraham is up then other people is beneath, no.
The name of the place all the dead saints await for rapture are called Abraham Bosom.

dolphinheart:


Are dead saints who await ur rapture conscious/aware of there condition after death? Do they have knowledge/ thinking ability/ feeling in abrahams bossom?

dolphinheart:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; :- And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died so you will not grieve like people who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died. 15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died. g 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died h will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.

We learn from verse 14 that "God will" and not "God has" done this ressurection as at the time this scripture was written. Verse 15 to 18 gives us a time frame and procedure for these ressurection and ascension to heaven .

Note, those verses talked about those who are dead and who are alive. This brings the question, (a)where are those who died in faith before these ressurection occurs?
(b)After the event occurs, would there still be people alive on earth? (c) What will be there eventual outcome.?(d) Is that resurrection the only resurrection ?I will like you to try and answer those questions.

Great0:

let me explain it to you well.
Noah died before Abraham. That will not make the place to Answer Noah bosom. The bosom is the name of the place not that Abraham is up then other people is beneath, no.
The name of the place all the dead saints await for rapture are called Abraham Bosom.

Emusan:


It's like you don't normally take into consideration the teaching of your organization before you you use Biblical reference to support your claim sometimes.

From these scriptures you said "Note, those verses talked about those who are dead and who are alive."

Now if these verses are talking about both the DEAD and the LIVING, let's consider some key points here.

[b]1. "we also believe that when [size=14pt]Jesus returns, God will bring back with him[/size] the believers who have died."

NOTE: Your organization claimed that Jesus had return in 1914 but according to this verse where are the believers God brings with Jesus at His return?

2. "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven" Please what does it mean to COME DOWN from heaven? because your organization says the return of Jesus is spiritual and not physical

3. "with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God." according to your organization Jesus return in 1914, please is there any historical record of A SHOUT and TRUMPET OF GOD?

4. "Then, together with them, [size=14pt]we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds[/size] to meet the Lord in the air." According to your organization ONLY 144,000 will make heaven and the selection of these saints has already stopped.So, Has this statement been fulfilled? If No! Then, will the 144,000 be resurrected back here on earth again? If Yes! Why your organization says these 144,000 are already ruling with Jesus in heaven? If No! Who are the people that will meet the LORD in the air again? Will this MEETING THE LORD IN THE AIR happen before Armageddon or After? If it will happen before Armageddon, why your organization never teaches MEETING THE LORD before Armageddon? If it will happen after Armageddon that means it's not everybody that will live forever on your paradise earth and your organization never says anything about that.

5. "Then we will be with the Lord forever." this statement meant for both the DEAD and the ones ALIVE who will MEET THE LORD in the AIR, please will this include the 144,000 saints who are already ruling with Jesus in heaven again or another race entirely?[/b]

I'm not saying you should answer all my questions but by considering those questions with the scriptures in view we know that JWs teachings regard the end time fall out woefully and contradict the scriptures.

Great0:

How you ask me question have some atheist characters display on it. But if you are, not time for atheism discussion.
Your question: i have never visited world of the dead before to know as they do but according to scripture dead saints cry for vengeance. so they are aware of their conditions after death.

MizJanet:

You cant fool anyone here , Bosom refers to a chestlike position , which means they are all resting on abrahams chest ! Very ILLOGICAL

Meanwhile , if you insist that it should not be taken as it is ; which means you said it can refer to the place of the dead saints . Employin symbolism here, yet you will tell us the fire in that same story is literal , confusion in christianity , so tell us , where is that place , is it heaven , hell , earth, or sea ?

dolphinheart:


So is the bible contradicting itself when it said that " the dead are conscious of nothing"? Or what do you understand by that statement? Pls note the word "contradiction" is part of a question and does not denote my view of the bible .

dolphinheart:
I asked some questions in that post, if you felt you needed to reply a post that was not directed to you, pls answer those questions according to the way it was asked!

If you really want to answer those questions, pls add this to it too
(o)when do you think this ressurection start?. Before these scripture was written or after.?

Great0:

Bible cannot contradict itself, just that man need understanding of it.
The dead cannot do things the living do. The portion of the verse i wrote down talks of the cries of the saints for vengeance, and The Lord said they should wait for their brethren in earth to be redeemed too. Abel blood come up before the Lord crying does not mean that Abel still do what he normally do when alive(Genesis 4:10).
Let me summarise it here that the only thing they do is crying for vengeance, i have never see where in bible that they do another things. So their conscious is only on crying. My grammar is poor but overlook it

Emusan:


Lame excuse, I know you can't refute those points, by the way like I said I'm not asking you to answer my questions but I only show you a snippet of your organization wrong teaching.

dolphinheart:


It is not an excuse, questions where asked, you decided to reply on the post , but refuse to answer the questions in it? Why? Is it because you dnt know the answer? If you do, pls share it with everyone on these thread before we go to other matters.

Answer those questions first before attempting to show any other thing! .

Emusan:


it Isn't an excuse! Coming from someone who insisted his only questions MUST BE ANSWERED but forgotten that sometimes he also boycotts questions throw to him.

Great0:

Humble yourself, if you want to learn.

Abraham Bosom is not in hell or sea or earth. Its located in heavenly or spiritworld . There is a great demarcation between Bosom and hades there. Angels are incharge of the two places. Those Angel(good and bad) are the one that give direction to any soul that came that world where they will stay.
My grammar is poor but overlook it

@underlined , so Noah made the heavenly places without jesus dying for his sin , do you now see that the death of ur jesus is useless ?

dolphinheart:


Bro, the question is related to the statement " conscious of nothing".
Does it mean that they are conscious in a different way to the consciousness of those alive?
I want a clear statement on this .

MizJanet:


@underlined , so Noah made the heavenly places without jesus dying for his sin , do you now see that the death of ur jesus is useless ?

Great0:

Read 1 peter 3:18-20. Spot on 19 and 20.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for
the unjust, that he might bring
us to God, being put to death in
the flesh, but quickened by the
Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in
prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the
longsuffering of God waited
in the days of Noah, while the
ark was a preparing, wherein
few, that is, eight souls were
saved by water.
All the disobedient soul that died in the old days to the last people before christ begin to preach are held in bondage by satan. Then the death of Christ make it possible for Christ to enter the abode to preach to those soul.

Great0:

The dead saint are conscious in a different way to those alive.
Then conscious in which area...... Cry to God for vengeance.
Revelation 6:10&11
6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

MizJanet:


Wait , jesus was active throughout the three days of his death . That shows he only pretends to sleep in the grave while he was ALIVE preaching . Jesus didnt even die , he was ALIVE . religious scam.

Noah made heavenly places without jesus dyin for his sin . Do u agree?

dolphinheart:


With ur explanation, that means the scriptures that stated that the dead are conscious of nothing at all is false abi?
The one that says the dead have no though or some emotions nko.?
What of the one that said the dead do not praise God.?

If there is activity for the dead, then these verses are wrong right?

CAPTIVATOR:

^^
Brother, whats the big deal in psalm 90:2 and proverb 8:24 that you cant explain

, honestly, You dont need all this emotional outburst , a christian should be calm in all situations .

This is too harsh and not Christlike

johnw74:


of course jw would agree with atheist lies

also miz is against the Bible, she is against Christians, do you say she is not antichrist?



what do you know about honesty, there is no emotion just the truth, you see darkly.



rubbish, it is Christ that said it:
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

CAPTIVATOR:


But you are the reason this Lady is mocking christians

.... is proverb 8:24 and PSALM 90:2 writen by atheists ? Why call those two scripture an athiest lie ?

k

CAPTIVATOR:

^^
Brother, whats the big deal in psalm 90:2 and proverb 8:24 that you cant explain , honestly, You dont need all this emotional outburst , a christian should be calm in all situations . This is too harsh and not Christlike

MizJanet:

Lol, you christians always amuse me with quotes you yourself dont understand in your own bible

And that same lord write in your bible that he ....

I will advise you to get a knife and cut our proverb 8:24 from your bible ....

MizJanet:

@underlined , so Noah made the heavenly places without Jesus dying for his sin grin , do you now see that the death of ur Jesus is useless ?

.... U sucessfully prove that the death of your Jesus is useless ....

.... old testament saints make HEAVEN without your Jesus

MizJanet:


If your commonsense is working , you will have known that proverb 8:24 declares jesus as CREATED .

johnw74:



some non pearls, just common sense:
If you had common sense which you keep showing that you don't,
you would have looked up the Hebrew word for "I was brought forth" to find out
what it means before saying what it doesn't mean.

"I was bought forth" in Proverbs 8:24 concerning the Word of God, is not the same Hebrew word as "bought forth" in Psalm 90:2 concerning mountains.

Buhahaha , But both can be translated " brought forth" ,isnt it ? Thats the point.

That same psalm 90:2 proves you WRONG , " the earth and the world were 'brought forth' " that same exact hebrew word used in proverb 8:24 appears here






*Lols*

dolphinheart:
I made a post in which some questions are asked. If you are interested in contributing to the post with a reply, pls endeavor to answer the questions contained in the post. If you can't answer it, pls let us know.
Dnt use questions to answer questions, we are not arguing!

Stop accussing me with what I did not say, [size=14pt]I did not say only my questions should be answered![/size] Stop twisting words!

johnw74:
You pander to sects and atheists, likeminded people.
Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

MizJanet is antibible:

She doesn't believe the Bible yet she uses the Bible to try and discredit Christians.

MizJanet doesn't believe on the Christian Jesus and talks against Him,
MizJanet is antichrist:

Emusan:


If I have had intention to answer your questions it won't cause me anything but I don't have interest on them. Like I said earlier I didn't quote you for YOU TO REPLY MY POST (or didn't I say it?) but I only quote you to SHOW YOU how those verses you so agreed with fortified your organization teaching.



So the word ONLY is your problem now?
But you're asking my to answer YOUR questions.