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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 9:21pm On Jan 10, 2016 |
paulGrundy:be looking for support while not answering my post o. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by paulGrundy(m): 9:41pm On Jan 10, 2016 |
dolphinheart: I Have already answered your post, you want me to say that Jesus is not God. That is the answer you are expecting. Funny you. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 11:25pm On Jan 10, 2016 |
@ brocab You don't know who God is.Pls tell us who God is! John 10:30 "Jesus said I and the Father are ONE.yes jesus said he and the father are one, but he also said that same father is greater than him. Does jesus statement mean he and the father are same person? No Does jesus statement mean he is equal to the father? No Did jesus say he and the father are one God? No Look at john 17 :21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. Do you see what that verse is telling us? Jesus requested that his disciples be in them(jesus and the father) just as he, jesus is in the father and the father is in him. If they(the disciples are not eventually God or jesus or equal to them when that request is fufilled, I wonder why you say jesus is equal to the father cus he said he and the father are one. Another translation went further and translated that verse as: I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one--as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the word {Jesus describes Himself as the word}It was john that was making the description , the same John that recorded the statement found at john 20:17 King James Bible Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren,(john inclusive] and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Jesus has explicitly told us who is his God! And who is our God! and the word was with God {Jesus describes Himself He was with God} Gbam! . Jesus(first person), was with God(another person) He was not that God as he was with that person called God. That is why your bible could say in heb 1:9 the following "You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy." Note: 1. Jesus had companions. 2.jesus was anointed 3. He has a God. and the word was God And the word was a God just as several translation shows. The scriptures, jesus, the disciples has shown us the relationship between jesus and the God mentioned in 1b My fruit is the word of God.You that have read all the chapters , you have not been able to bring up anything contrary to what I've been saying with scripture to support it. In fact you have refused to tell ur views about the scriptures I quoted. And I can prove you believe God is a man, you had written it yourself, you believe Jesus and God are two different persons.Pls do. While at it, you can tell us ur view of the scriptures I quoted. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 11:29pm On Jan 10, 2016 |
paulGrundy: You have not. Go back to our discussion and reply the post there. And if you dnt want to, then explain what you understand by the words found in heb 1:9 , john 17:3 , and john 20:17 for starters |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 1:06am On Jan 11, 2016 |
None so what you have written makes any sense. Jesus is the author of the book John said In the beginning was the word, John was talking about Jesus not himself. John can only be the messenger, who prepared the way for Christ. Matthew 3:16-19 "John seen the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and he heard a voice from the heavens, saying this is My beloved Son. Which proves God is a Spirit God spells it out pretty clear to us in the bible, who He is, God is Spirit, God is Love, John said He had seen the Spirit of God descending above Jesus. God is the Spirit and the Son became flesh and the Holy Spirit are all part of the tri-unity meaning one God existing in 3 co-existing persons. Understand this is not, in any way suggesting 3 God's, even the word trinity isn't written in the bible, this is a term used to describe triune God. 3 co-existed co-eternal persons to make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represents by the word "Trinity"does exist in scripture. This is what God says about the trinity, There is One God Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear "O Israel The Lord our God the Lord is One. Isaiah 6:8 "And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "whom shall I send and who will go for us, Than I said, here I am! send Me. Genius 1:26 "God said let us make man in our own image, after our likeness. Genius 3:22 "Then God said, behold the man has become like one of us knowing Good and Evil. In the bible Jesus was always knowing as the Lord, and God as the Father God. Adam said He had seen the Lord God walking in the garden, He never said he seen the Father and the Son walking in the garden. Isaiah 48:16-17 "Draw near to Me, hear this from the beginning, I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be, I have been there, and now the Lord God had sent Me and His Spirit. thus says the Lord God your redeemer, the Holy one of Israel, I am the Lord your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads by the way you should go. Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations and baptising them in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. All 3 are One. Jesus needed God just as much He needed His Spirit. His power came from the Spirit. Jesus was the son before He was born as a child in Bethlehem. Each member of the trinity is God, the Father is God. The Son is God John 1:1. The Holy Spirit is God 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know you are God's temple, and that God's Spirit dwells in you. John 17:21 "Father you are in Me and I am in you. It shows you are confused, this scripture doesn't say we are equal with Jesus, it says let our Spirit reside in them, He told His disciples, He will send them another helper the Holy Spirit, and He will teach them all things concerning Jesus. This is what the verse means the Spirit of God now lives in each of us who believe, like God lived in Jesus. This is the witness to prove that God had sent Jesus into the world. His Spirit teaches us the hidden secrets about the word of God. dolphinheart: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 2:13am On Jan 11, 2016 |
You had denied that the JW's didn't changed any of the words around that's written in John 1:1 "and yet your New World Translation bible reads it out pretty clearly, In {the} beginning the word was, and the word was with God, and the word was a god. It makes life harder when one like yourself isn't listening, let alone understanding any of the scriptures. Hebrews 1:4-6 "Having become much better then the angels, as He had inherited a more excellent name then they, for in which of the angels did God ever say, you are My Son, today I have begotten you? And again I will be a father to Him and He shall be a Son to Me. And when He brings in the first born into the world, He says let all the angels of God worship Him. Acts 13:33 "He has fulfilled for us, their children by raising up Jesus, As it is written in the second psalm, "You are My Son and today I have become your Father. The Sons of God are not Spirits, Genius 6 is clearly man, God said My Spirit will not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh. And He said I will destroy man, whom I have created from the face of the earth, If angels were capable of reproducing as man kind does, their of spring would be spirit. According to its principle, according to its kind. portrayed in Genus 1. What makes this statement harder, God has already told us, who He is in the Bible, John had even told you who God is, he had seen the Spirit of God descending above Jesus, but you keep on putting God on a person, Jesus is the one who became a man, God had always described Himself as a Spirit. And if I was to be equal to my Father, I would be my Father. New World Translation bible Hebrews 1:8-9 "But about the Son he says God is your throne, forever and ever, the scepter of your Kingdom, and the scepter of up-righteousness. Verse 9 " You loved righteousness and you Hated lawlessness, That is why thy God your God has anointed you, with the oil of exultation more then your companions. The King James bible Hebrews 1:6-11 " And again when God brings the first born in to the world, He said let all God's angels worship Him. He makes His angels spirits and His servants flames of fire. But about His Son He says, "Your throne O God, will last forever and ever, a scepter of justice will be a scepter of your Kingdom, you have loved righteous and you have hated wickedness; therefore God your God have sent you above all companions, by anointing you with the oil of joy. He also says in the beginning Lord you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. A big difference between two bibles. It shows God is talking to His Son Jesus. No wonder you are confused. dolphinheart: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 7:39pm On Jan 11, 2016 |
@Dolphinheart. Its funny, your argument doesn't make any sense; you believe God is a person, and Jesus is the archangel, with this info, the JW's have already proven to the world Jesus is God likewise, and you don't even know it. Hebrews 1:4-7 Exodus 20:3-5 "God say's you shall not worship any other gods before Me. Matthew 2:1-2 "And after Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the kings and the shepherds worshipped Him. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by paulGrundy(m): 7:48pm On Jan 11, 2016 |
brocab: This is precisely one of the reasons I refused to engage him, he is basing his argument on a text that has been grossly distorted. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 7:49pm On Jan 11, 2016 |
paulGrundy: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 8:02pm On Jan 11, 2016 |
@paulgrundy We need to remember we were once atheist too. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 9:06pm On Jan 11, 2016 |
Well I have already answered Hebrews 1:9 John 17:3 "And now O Father glorify Me with yourself, with the glory I had with You before the world was. John 20:17 Do not cling to Me. It shows you have pick out these verses just to clarify your argument, every verse has a chapter, and that chapter has a story, picking out one verse from the pile doesn't mean you have finished the chapter, it just shows us your arguments can only be led in the flesh. Without you understanding the word of God makes life a little harder, you believe God is a person-you also believe Jesus is the archangel. Hebrews 1:5-7 "For to which of the angels did He ever say; You are My Son, today I have begotten You, again, I will be to Him a Father,And He shall be to Me a Son, but when He again brings the first born into the world, He says let all the angels of God worship Him. And of the angels He says: who makes His angels Spirits, and His servants a flame of fire. These verses tells us clearly, God had made the angels spirits, and He says let all the angels worship Jesus. What puzzles me, you believe Jesus is the archangel Michael. Of course Jesus couldn't worship Himself, because God had a Son, and God did say He had made the angels to worship His Son Jesus, and if you say Jesus is the archangel; then without having any thought God "Is" His Son JESUS' Likewise and the angels worship Him. dolphinheart: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 9:43pm On Jan 11, 2016 |
It funny you know, the JW's have proven Jesus is God likewise and they don't even know it. paulGrundy: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 10:48pm On Jan 11, 2016 |
@ brocab: None so what you have written makes any sense.You yourself have said it: " john was talking" . To give you a glimpse of who the author of the inspired scriptures is read rev 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John. John can only be theIt seems you are mistaken about the john we are talking about. Matthew 3:16-19 "John seen the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and he heard a voice from the heavens, saying this is My beloved Son. Which proves God is a Spirit God spells it out pretty clear to us in the bible, who He is, God is Spirit, God is Love, John said He had seen the Spirit of God descending above Jesus. God is spirit and God came down like a dove, yes you can't explain who is talking in heaven. Understand this is not, in any way suggesting 3 God's, even the word trinity isn't written in the bible, this is a term used to describe triune God. 3 co- existed co-eternal persons to make up God. A term that has no scriptural backup . a co existence and co- eternal that has no direct reference in the scriptures. Of real importance is that the concept represents by the word "Trinity"does exist in scripture.You quote scriptures with no explanations. Is God talking to himself? Who are the others he is talking to? Are they Gods too? In the bible Jesus was always knowing as the Lord, and God as the Father God. Adam said So who did adam see? The father, jesus or the holy spirit . Is the person of jesus also the person called the father? If they are not the same person, which of them did adam see? I dnt know which bible translation you use, but all I've read never said adam saw Lord God walking in the garden. Second, can you tell me why you decided not to use the original word for Gods name in that verse but prefer to use "lord". Isaiah 48:16-17 "Draw near to Me, hear this from the You have joined those who have deliberately removed the name of God so that their false doctrine can seem to fit the scriptures. Unless you can prove that the Tetragrammaton in that verse Means "Lord ", ur explanation shows a desperate attempt at using the removal of Gods name to support a false doctrine. Anyone who has doubt on what I'm saying can ask him to explain such removal. Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations and baptising them in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. All 3 are One. Dnt add to the verse pls, the underlined is not part of the scriptures . Jesus needed God just as much He needed His Spirit. His power came from the Spirit.Therefore jesus is not God. Jesus was the son before He was born as a child in Bethlehem.Same as all other angelic creatures in heaven, yet they are not God. Each member of the trinity is God, the Father is God.False doctrine. 1 cor 8:6 ...we have but one God , the father. John 17 :3 ...... The only true God..... Eph 4:6 ...one God and father of all. John 20:17said jesus called the father his God and our God. John 17:21 "Father you are in Me and I am in you. So jesus is not God cus he is in the father and the father in him, just as the disciples dnt become God cus they are in God and jesus. Gods spirit coming into the disciples does not make jesus God same as the spirit coming into the disciples does not make them God . Who commands the holy spirit, jesus or God? The scriptures shows that jesus asks from the holy spirit from the father. I wonder why all commands, authority, teachings, power, knowledge of future events and actions comes from the father! Maybe because he is the only true God!, the almighty! You have shown again that you will not address the scriptures mentioned earlier which shows you who our God is and his relationship with jesus. Though I know you wunt address them, but let me add one more . Heb 9:24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he(jesus/first person) now appears before God(the father/ |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by ableguy(m): 11:17pm On Jan 11, 2016 |
This post was hijacked, leaving it for my own good |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 11:33pm On Jan 11, 2016 |
@ brocad. You had denied that the JW's didn't changed any of the words around that's written in John 1:1The words of john 1:1 was written in greek , the new world translation translated those words into English. They did not change the words. Hope u understand the difference between translation of words and changing of words . It makes life harder when one like yourself isn't listening, let alone understanding any of theYep life is hard when you dnt listen, let alone understand the scriptures. Hebrews 1:4-6 "Having become much better then the angels, as He had inherited a more excellent name then they, for in which of the angels did God ever say, you are My Son,You just quoted the verse,but you refused to explain the underlined. Acts 13:33 "He has fulfilled for us, their children by raising up Jesus, As it is written in the second psalm, "You are My Son and today I have become your Father.Are the angels spirits? Are they called sons of God? What makes this statement harder, God has already told us, who He is in the Bible, John had even told you who God is, he had seen the Spirit of God descending above Jesus, but you keep on putting God on a person, Jesus is the one whoAnd john did tell you what jesus told mary right?. Gods spirit descended like a dove on jesus, yet another voice was heard from heaven. This shows that Gods spirit is not God!. And if I was to be equal to my Father, I would be my Father. And yet you still refuse to explain those verses using either nwt translation or the kjv. You are right to say God(a person) is talking to his son(another person). Therefore jesus is not the God talking there |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 12:05am On Jan 12, 2016 |
That's funny you did say you have a King James bible, along with your New World Translation. The King James does say Adam seen the Lord God walking in the garden. Does this mean you don't use the king James bible, but you prefer to use a bible that's partly scriptural. Revelation 1:1-2 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things that shortly come to pass, and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John, who bare record of the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, and all things that He saw. Not only John, but His other servants too. Its funny, the JW's have been claiming Jesus isn't God in word, and yet the JW's teachings are the opposite, Firstly you believe God is a person, and you believe Jesus is the archangel Michael. Hebrews 1:4-7 "Having Become so much better then the angels as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name then they, For which of the angels did He say: you are My Son, Today I have begotten you. Again I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son, But when He again brings the first born into the world, He says "let all the angels of God worship Him. So if this is the case as the word of God says, and Jesus is the archangel, He couldn't worship Himself, and God did say He had a Son, and He said let all the angels of God worship Him, and God made the angels spirits, so this means Michael too. THIS LEAVES GOD STANDING AND BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE GOD IS A PERSON, THEN IT WOULD HAVE TO BE 'GOD' WHO CAME IN THE FLESH, AND LIVED AMONGST MEN This is what the JW's teach, how interesting? And you don't even know it. It seems you are confused about which bible has the false doctrines, when we look into the New World Translation that bible proves most scriptures have either been twisted in word, or it's been removed. Lets look at Acts 8:37 just one of the many scriptures moved from your bible. That you call false. If God made Jesus to be an angel then He is Spirit and In Genius 1 It does say all to their own kind. How about asking a few of these questions? dolphinheart: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 5:17am On Jan 12, 2016 |
Maybe you could share a little light on the author who changed it from the Greek translation to English? Matter of fact do you know any of the names, who wrote your bible? Allow me to shed a little light on this subject. dolphinheart: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 1:38pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
brocab: The bible has called jesus a god, and I'm not saying it has not. But the bible has also told me on several occasions that jesus has a God. A god who sent him, commands him, anointed him and told him what to do. Jesus also confirms these by telling us who that God is. John 17:1-3 [b]Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him. This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. Heb 1:3-6(note the underlined and comment on it) [b]He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, (a)he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. So he has (b)become better than the angels to the extent that (c)he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs. For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: (d)“You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”? But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”. (a) jesus is not the majesty on high, the majesty on high instructed him to sit at his right side. Therefore jesus is not almighty God or has equal authority with almighty God. Jesus sat there only after he should loyalty to the point of death on earth. (b)jesus BECAME better than the angels. Unless we are in the same group or are competing over something. One cannot be said to become better than the other. Note the verse did not say jesus has been better but became better! If you feel I'm wrong , please tell us ur understanding of jesus became better than the angels. (c) jesus inherited a name more excellent than the angels. These shows that their was a time jesus did not have that name. Who did jesus inherit the name from. It must surely be from someone superior to him. (d)when was the statement made? And the answer to that question is : jesus Christ!. Ex 20:2-5 [b]“I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You must not have any other gods besides me. “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me,.... Is jesus jehovah? No John 4:21,22,34 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. Jesus said to them: “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work Did you see above who jesus called the God that the Jews know and worship? The one who told them to worship only him ? The father. Did jesus sought worship giving to the father ? John 4:8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” Matt 2:1-2: pagan worshipers, astrologers, Magi from the east came to meet jesus, and you follow their practices. Well the verses did not tell us that the isrealites(shepherds) who worship God did the same thing. Dnt know why you added them. Another verse to consider : 1 cor 11 :3 But I want you(brocab) to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 2:27pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
Wait you have John 17:1-3 under the false doctrine section, as well as 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, John 20:17 and now you are using John 17 to back up your argument.. dolphinheart: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 2:33pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
@ brocab Good you are now trying to answer for him since he can't, or has refused to give us his understanding of the scriptures mentioned to him. Let's look at what you have to say. Well I have already answered Hebrews 1:9No you have not, you only quoted 2 translations without telling us why one person called himself the God of another . "You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions" John 17:3 "And now O Father glorify Me with yourself, with the glory I had with You before the world was. I dnt know if its deliberate or a mistake, but these is what is recorded in john 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." The kjv translated it thus : And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. So I dnt know which verse you quoted, but more painful is the fact that you refuse to tell us ur understanding of any of them(both the john 17:3 you quoted and the one I quoted) John 20:17 Do not cling to Me.I , you , everyone reading this thread can see that you have once again refused to explain or give ur understanding of that verse. Quoting it completely is now even hard for you to do. John 20:17 King James Bible Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Hebrews 1:5-7 "For to which of the angels did He ever say; You are My Son, today I have begotten You, again, I will be to Him a Father,And He shall be toIts only you that can explain what you posted. Jesus was giving obeisance as the bible and jesus has always indicated that it is only the father, jehovah that must be worshiped. Note the fact that it is God, the father, the God of jesus, the only true God that authorised this obeisance. Jesus is not the true God, not the almighty God, not equal to the almighty God, not the father. Another 2 verses to consider : 1 pet 1:3 King James Bible "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his(to show that God is a person) abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." Nwt 1 cor 15 :24 "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power." |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 2:46pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
Its no good denying what the JW's believe in. Jesus is the archangel and God is a person, you have said it yourself. Let the hole world see you are even willing to lie against your own religion, to prove what? That you don't believe in Christ. You have already written the bible has false doctrines, now you are saying that John 17:3 is either deliberate or a mistake. So how can anyone take you seriously. Matter of fact none of your scriptures from the New World Translation bible match up with the word of God. Plus you have refused to answer my questions? what was the name of the author who translated your bible from Greek to English? dolphinheart: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 4:00pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
In Greek>John 1:1 En arche en lo logos en pros ton theon, kai theos en ho logos. In English>John 1:1 In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. Since the Jehovah witnesses deny that Jesus is God in the flesh, they must change John 1:1. The NWT renders John 1:1 In {the} Beginning the word was and the word was with God and the word was a god. Lets" take a look what the authentic New Testament Greek scholars say about this verse. Dr. Julius R Mantey {who is even recognized by the Watchtower as a Greek scholar since they quoted His book on page 1158 of their Kingdom Interlinear Translation}calls the Watchtower translation of John 1:1 "A grossly misleading translation. It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 'the Word was a god. But with all the scholars in the world, so far we know none has translated this verse as Jehovah witnesses have done. Dr. Julius R Mantey was disturbed because they {the Watchtower} has misquoted me in support of their translation. He called their attention to the fact that the hole body of the New Testament was against their view. Throughout the New Testament Jesus is glorified and magnified-yet they were denigrating Him and making Him into a little god of pagan concept. He said he believes its a terrible thing that people are to be deceived and go into eternity lost, forever lost because someone deliberately misled them by distorting the scripture!.., Ninety nine percent of the scholars of the world who know Greek and who have helped translate the bible,are in disagreement with the Jehovah Witnesses. People who are looking for the truth, ought to know what the majority of the scholars really believe. They should not allow themselves to be misled by the Jehovah Witnesses and end up in Hell. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 4:50pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
Charles Russell was the founder of the Jehovah Witnesses was a 33 rd degree Mason, who was the author around 1874, than came Fred Franz born in 1893, later he attended Uni in Cincinnati from the 9th month 1911 to the 4th month in 1914, studying Greek, but not biblical Greek,and he had no formal instructions in Hebrew. Fred Franz converted back to Russell in 1913-1915. Fred Franz also was one to translated His version from Greek to a English version, removing and re-wording scriptures from the New World Translation. Fred Franz later went to Bethel in 1920 he became president in 1977 with the Jehovah Witnesses. It was believed by words say, by the Jehovah Witnesses that Fred Franz Was offered "A" Roades scholarship. But that was only word say. Other authors were Nathan Horr, Milton Henchel, George Dgangas, A.D. schroder, None were found with any Qualifications in the Greek language nor having the Hebrew language. And these are the authors who had started the JW's back then. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 9:56pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
@ brocab That's funny you did say you have a King James bible, along with your New World Translation. Lying against me will get you nowhere. The King James does say Adam seen the Lord GodAnd yet you refused to quote the kjv that said so, so that everyone reading the thread can check if its you or I that's lying. Maybe your kjv is different from these ones below . King James Bible And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. King James 2000 Bible And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. American King James Version And they heard the voice ...... You deliberately ignored my accusation that you have joined those who deliberately removed the name of the most high God from the scriptures and replaced it with "lord" cus it suits your false doctrine, as calling that name will make your attempt to link jesus with that verse harder. Jesus wanted to make that name known to all, but you are against it. Does this mean you don't use the king James bible, but you prefer to use a bible that's partly scriptural.Funny, just quoted the kjv for you to reply on. Revelation 1:1-2 "The Good you know that it was God that gave jesus the revelation. And I hope you remember who taught jesus all the things he taught us while on earth. Read below John 7:16 Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. Who sent jesus? The father, the only true God. Its funny, the JW's have been claiming Jesus isn't God in word, and yet the JW'sIf you had taking time to listen to them, you would have understood what they are telling you. It seems you are confused about which bible has the false doctrines, when we look into the New World Translation that bible proves most scriptures have either been twisted in word, or it's been removed. Are you a politician? Attacking the nwt will not automatically make the kjv correct or does it? Answer the allegations made agaist you and the genesis verse you quoted. Lets look at Acts 8:37 just one of the many scriptures moved from your bible. That you call false. You need to do an indept study on why mordern translations and translators removed acts 8:37 from their translations. And pls stop acting as if its only the nwt that did it! If God made Jesus to be an angel then He is Spirit and In Genius 1 It does say all to their own kind.?? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 10:02pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
@ brocab Maybe you could share a little light on the author who changed it from the Greek translation to English? Matter of fact do you know any of the names, who wrote your bible? Allow me to shed a little light on this subject.Dnt change the subject Below is my post again: The words of john 1:1 was written in greek , the new world translation translated those words into English. They did not change the words. Hope u understand the difference between translation of words and changing of words . Yep life is hard when you dnt listen, let alone understand the scriptures. You just quoted the verse,but you refused to explain the underlined. Are the angels spirits? Are they called sons of God? And john did tell you what Jesus told mary right?. Gods spirit descended like a dove on Jesus, yet another voice was heard from heaven. This shows that Gods spirit is not God!. And yet you still refuse to explain those verses using either nwt translation or the kjv. You are right to say God(a person) is talking to his son (another person). Therefore Jesus is not the God talking there. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 10:14pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
brocab: Do not deviate , pls respond to the scriptures and comments I posted. Its posted again below : The bible has called jesus a god, and I'm not saying it has not. But the bible has also told me on several occasions that jesus has a God. A god who sent him, commands him, anointed him and told him what to do. Jesus also confirms these by telling us who that God is. John 17:1-3 [b]Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him. This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. Heb 1:3-6(note the underlined and comment on it) [b]He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, (a)he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. So he has (b)become better than the angels to the extent that (c)he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs. For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: (d)“You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”? But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”. (a) jesus is not the majesty on high, the majesty on high instructed him to sit at his right side. Therefore jesus is not almighty God or has equal authority with almighty God. Jesus sat there only after he should loyalty to the point of death on earth. (b)jesus BECAME better than the angels. Unless we are in the same group or are competing over something. One cannot be said to become better than the other. Note the verse did not say jesus has been better but became better! If you feel I'm wrong , please tell us ur understanding of jesus became better than the angels. (c) jesus inherited a name more excellent than the angels. These shows that their was a time jesus did not have that name. Who did jesus inherit the name from. It must surely be from someone superior to him. (d)when was the statement made? And the answer to that question is : jesus Christ!. Ex 20:2-5 [b]“I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You must not have any other gods besides me. “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me,.... Is jesus jehovah? No John 4:21,22,34 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. Jesus said to them: “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work Did you see above who jesus called the God that the Jews know and worship? The one who told them to worship only him ? The father. Did jesus sought worship giving to the father ? John 4:8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” Matt 2:1-2: pagan worshipers, astrologers, Magi from the east came to meet jesus, and you follow their practices. Well the verses did not tell us that the isrealites(shepherds) who worship God did the same thing. Dnt know why you added them. Another verse to consider : 1 cor 11 :3 But I want you(brocab) to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 10:59pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
@ brocab: Its no good denying what the JW's believe in. Jesus is the archangel and God is a person, you have said it yourself.Pls show where i said anything about the bold above. I've deliberately not said anything cus I see you want to use it to change the discussion and not comment or tell us ur understanding of the verses I've been posting and the explanations I've been giving. That I've not made mention of it does not mean I'm denying it, there is a big difference between the two. Let the hole world see you are even willing to lie against your own religion, to prove what?Did you read what you posted at all. Pls wait till I lie first ok, wonder how you came about the view that I'm willing to lie! You have already written the bible has false doctrines, now you are saying that John 17:3 is either deliberate or a mistake.Where did I say that o! Dnt you read a post before commenting on it! Look at your quote of john 17:3 again tell us if you deliberately misquoted the verse or it was just a mistake you made. I made effort to quote the verse for you again, and you are still refusing to tell us ur understanding of the verse. So how can anyone take you seriously.Frivolous statements wunt help. Plus you have refused to answer my questions? what Be looking for author while refusing to address the fact that you removed Gods name from the bible verse you quoted. Again ill post below, the parts of my post you refuse to address : 1. No you have not, you only quoted 2 translations without telling us why one person called himself the God of another . "You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions" 2. I dnt know if its deliberate or a mistake,*(talking about what you posted on john 17:3) but these is what is recorded in john 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." The kjv translated it thus : And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. So I dnt know which verse you quoted, but more painful is the fact that you refuse to tell us ur understanding of any of them(both the john 17:3 you quoted and the one I quoted) 3.I , you , everyone reading this thread can see that you have once again refused to explain or give ur understanding of that verse. Quoting it completely is now even hard for you to do. John 20:17 King James Bible Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 4.Jesus was giving obeisance as the bible and Jesus has always indicated that it is only the father, jehovah that must be worshiped. Note the fact that it is God, the father, the God of Jesus, the only true God that authorised this obeisance. Jesus is not the true God, not the almighty God, not equal to the almighty God, not the father. 5. Another 2 verses to consider : 1 pet 1:3 King James Bible "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his (to show that God is a person) abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." Nwt 1 cor 15 :24 "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power." |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 11:42pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
Here it is? you wrote it under the false doctrine section. @ dolphinheart>False doctrine. 1 cor 8:6 ...we have but one God , the father. John 17 :3 ...... The only true God..... Eph 4:6 ...one God and father of all. John 20:17said Jesus called the father his God and our God. Or maybe you mean the JW's have twisted these scriptures to make them sound, only to your likings? dolphinheart: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 11:55pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
MVLOX: so, the lake of fire is different from hell? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by MVLOX(m): 12:04am On Jan 13, 2016 |
samted: Doesn't it...........or how do u explain the things that will get burnt in the lake of fire |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 12:06am On Jan 13, 2016 |
MVLOX: me, i no know. that's the idea behind the word 'mystery'. i'd rather not find out tho |
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