Jesus

dolphinheart:

How on earth can I twist words that you did not write!
If you did not write it, then they are not your words, and thus can't be twisted.!


Thank you.



I'm still waiting for the first answer or your understanding of the scriptures quoted.



Good, one starts from somewhere, jesus has a God , now do you know who that God is?

You have also refused to tell us viewers why did the JW's take out so many scriptures from the bible.
You also have refused to answer what was the name of the author who wrote the New World Translation bible from the Greek language to English.
You also refuse to listen to any truth about Christ.
You have even named some scriptures to be false doctrines.
I have asked you to rewrite the scriptures, but you are refusing to answer.
You don't understand how my mind works, only because you don't understand the word of God.
Jesus came here to die for the people, the bible was written to help us understand the scriptures about Him, which makes it difficult for you, You don't even have a bible, but a book that tells you that Jesus isn't God in the flesh.

dolphinheart:

@ brocad

Another way to say " I dnt have proof".
Let us know when the proof comes back to visit you.



You have the freedom to formulate anything with your mind, but note that when you express it and post it, it gives people an understanding of how your mind works.
An attempt to link things without proof shows others how desperate you are.


Thank you, now can you tell us your understanding of the scriptures I quoted.?


So the scriptures was not written to equip us for every good work?


Big difference between us, I prefer to first know if the story I'm reading is true or false.
One can understand a false story, but it does not make the story true.


And yet you refused to explained why the many translations I listed do not have that story in 1 john 5:7

This is the prove that is travelling around our nations today. And where I got this one from, theirs plenty more.
After reading about the JW's else where, and of course I have asked questions, the informations I have learnt, the JW's won't allow their followers to watch video's or read articles that's written outside your church. So here's the evidence you asked for, if you are willing to watch them-it could save your life. Only if you are willing, this video will show you the in's and outs, to the religion you stand for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnngqQYvc
If you really believe you are a true man of God, you will watch this video.

[quote author=MVLOX post=41951496][/quote]

1 peter 3 vs 18 - 20 shows that he went to free the imprisoned spirits that were disobedient in the days of Noah. I don't think those people were alive or hanging somewhere in the balance.

Also, Ephesians 4 vs 7 - 10 shows that He who ascended is also He who first descended to the lower regions of the earth.

Therefore, we agree that Christ first descended before He resurrected and ascended.

dolphinheart:


Pls can you address the points I raised based on the first scripture you told me to read ?
Remember my question and remember the points are numbered

1 peter 3 vs 18 - 20 (KJV) says: ¹⁸ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: ¹⁹ By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; ²⁰ Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Now, if you're well versed in the English language (to a reasonable extent at least) you'd know that v18 which says He was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit, doesn't refer to the resurrection in any way. He was quickened by the spirit is explained in v19 which says BY WHICH (through the spirit), He went and preached unto spirits in prison, continue to v20 which says that those spirits were sometime disobedient to God in the days of Noah.

You'd agree with me that those spirits which were disobedient to God in the days of Noah were once humans who had long passed before the coming of Jesus. If this is so, it only makes sense to say that they were cast into a place of punishment (not eternal damnation) to await judgment. And due to the fact that they hadn't heard the gospel, Jesus went to preach to them and offer them a chance at salvation...this chance we have every single day we hear the word.

I have got to say you are right about the New international version bible, The old international version is the one to keep.
I will check up those other bibles you mention and see who else is being deceived.
I advise we Christians should study the word, before they try to take all the scriptures away from us, soon that time will come, once they get rid off the believers in Christ, their will be no-one left to preach the gospel, and we can't rely on you. You have another gospel.
Don't forget watch that great video I have sent you.
How cool does this sound, we will meet the lord in the air, in no time just with a blink of an eye.

dolphinheart:
@ brocab:



Attacking me wunt help you.
Attacking me wunt make you right.
If you have the holy spirit, then tell us ur understanding of the scriptures posted in my reply to you.
If you have the holy spirit, show humility.



The comparing of translations only exist in your mind, and its affecting your understanding of the scriptures thereby making you refuse to explain scriptures posted to you either from the nwt or kjv.


You have an ability, the ability to create false stories and statement without backup.

Even as you falsely think I wrote a list of false doctrines from the kjv, u refuse to show how those verses are true and thus proving me wrong. You are even afraid to quote some of those verses when you respond to my post.



You have just shown again that you know little about the scriptures and translations.

You emphasized that the nwt does not translate 1 john 5:7 as the kjv does. Yet you refuse to take note that the following translations also do not translate that verse the same way the kjv did.


1. New International Version
2. New Living Translation
3. English Standard Version
4. Berean Study Bible
5. Berean Literal Bible
6. New American Standard
Bible
7. Holman Christian Standard
Bible
8. International Standard
Version
9. NET Bible
10. Aramaic Bible in Plain
English
11. GOD'S WORD® Translation
12. New American Standard
1977
13. American Standard Version
14. Darby Bible Translation
15. English Revised Version
16. Weymouth New Testament
17. World English Bible
18. NWT

....and many more.

Note, most of these translators surpport trinity and yet they do not add the words you quoted on that verse.

I'm surprised you did not add 1 ti 3:16 to the verses you have issues with .at least kjv translated it thus:

King James Bible
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.

Ill ask you, is the kjv right with that translation? And why do most translators that surpport trinity translate that verse differently.

Ill advise you to go and ask your religious leaders about those verses before you reply.


At least add prove to support these lies na.

Again ill post below the points you refuse to talk about in my post.

1. Look at your quote of john 17:3 again tell us if you deliberately misquoted the verse or it was just a mistake you made.
I made effort to quote the verse for you again, and you are still refusing to tell us ur
understanding of the verse.

2. Be looking for author while
refusing to address the fact that you removed Gods name from the bible verse you quoted.

1. No you have not, you only
quoted 2 translations without
telling us why one person
called himself the God of
another .
"You loved righteousness,
and you hated lawlessness.
That is why God, your God,
anointed you with the oil of
exultation more than your
companions"

2. I dnt know if its deliberate or a mistake,*(talking about what you posted on john 17:3) but these is what is recorded in john 17:3
"This means everlasting life,
their coming to know you,
the only true God, and the
one whom you sent, Jesus
Christ."
The kjv translated it thus :
And this is life eternal, that
they might know thee the only
true God, and Jesus Christ,
whom thou hast sent.
So I dnt know which verse
you quoted, but more painful
is the fact that you refuse to
tell us ur understanding of any
of them(both the john 17:3
you quoted and the one I
quoted)

3.I , you , everyone reading this
thread can see that you have
once again refused to explain or
give ur understanding of that
verse. Quoting it completely is
now even hard for you to do.
John 20:17
King James Bible
Jesus saith unto her, Touch
me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but
go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my
Father, and your Father; and
to my God, and your God.

4.Jesus was giving obeisance
as the bible and Jesus has
always indicated that it is only
the father, jehovah that must
be worshiped.
Note the fact that it is God, the
father, the God of Jesus, the
only true God that authorised
this obeisance.
Jesus is not the true God, not
the almighty God, not equal to
the almighty God, not the
father.

5. Another 2 verses to consider :
1 pet 1:3
King James Bible
"Blessed be the God and
Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, which according to his
(to show that God is a person)
abundant mercy hath
begotten us again unto a lively
hope by the resurrection of
Jesus Christ from the dead."
Nwt
1 cor 15 :24
"Next, the end, when he
hands over the Kingdom to
his God and Father, when he
has brought to nothing all
government and all authority
and power."

samted:


1 peter 3 vs 18 - 20 shows that he went to free the imprisoned spirits that were disobedient in the days of Noah. I don't think those people were alive or hanging somewhere in the balance.

Also, Ephesians 4 vs 7 - 10 shows that He who ascended is also He who first descended to the lower regions of the earth.

Therefore, we agree that Christ first descended before He resurrected and ascended.

Guy u are still confusing yourself. U said dat Jesus went to preach to the dead in hell or grave right, now I asked u to prove it and u show me a scripture abt Jesus and spirits or demons of Noahs days. Now do spirits live in hell grave or Hades? Am sure u have read Eccl 9:5 and 10. I will also get back to you on that 1 peter u quoted just set dis record straight 1st b4 I go there

MVLOX:


Guy u are still confusing yourself. U said dat Jesus went to preach to the dead in hell or grave right, now I asked u to prove it and u show me a scripture abt Jesus and spirits or demons of Noahs days. Now do spirits live in hell grave or Hades? Am sure u have read Eccl 9:5 and 10. I will also get back to you on that 1 peter u quoted just set dis record straight 1st b4 I go there

eccl 9:5 is talking about 'the dead' (DEAD PEOPLE) not their spirits. The spirit leaves the person (vessel) after death.

and eccl 9:10 acknowledges that there is a realm of the dead (sheol) or hell or the grave where there is no work or planning.

please, what points were u trying to bring from those verses?

samted:


eccl 9:5 is talking about 'the dead' (DEAD PEOPLE) not their spirits. The spirit leaves the person (vessel) after death.

and eccl 9:10 acknowledges that there is a realm of the dead (sheol) or hell or the grave where there is no work or planning.

please, what points were u trying to bring from those verses?

That the dead are dead and knw nothing as for the spirit read Eccl 12:7 and see what happens to the human spirit at death

brocab:
Jesus

You haven't seen anything yet, that is why I usually don't engage him, its not the first or the second time he has done something like this, he loves to spin doctor posts/put words in your mouth and attack the doctored misrepresentation he creates.

MVLOX:


That the dead are dead and knw nothing as for the spirit read Eccl 12:7 and see what happens to the human spirit at death

so you mean to tell me that when a person dies, the spirit, whether good or bad, returns to God?

@ brocab

Luke 22:69 "But from now on the son of man will be seated at the right hand of the almighty God.
Jesus wasn't instructed to sit on God's right side, it was His
place to sit there.

Its good you quoted that verse.

1. Can you see where it says " from now on"?
Does this not tell you that jesus was not sitting there before?

2. Can you also read the part that says " the son of man will be seated at the right hand of almighty God?
This tells you that jesus is not almighty God, but a God that is subjected to the almighty God. Sitting at the right hand of God should tell you that jesus is not that same God that he is seated at the right hand of.

3. Now let's see if jesus was instructed to sit at the right hand or not

Ps 110:1
Of David. A melody.
Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
King James Bible
A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy
footstool.

Matt 22:44
King James Bible
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 1:3
King James Bible
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

So who is the God that told jesus to sit at his right hand? Answer : jehovah.
Who is the God of jesus? The father!

The father instructed jesus to sit at his right hand, jesus did not just sit there on his own, he said "he will be seated there" cus of the assurance giving to him by his God and father despite facing death.

That is why Stevens vision is accurate when he said the following :

Acts 7:55,56
[b]But he, being full of the Holy
Ghost, looked up stedfastly
into heaven, and saw the glory
of God, and Jesus standing on
the right hand of God,

And said, Behold, I see the
heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Hope the holy spirit in you will help you see jesus not as God , but as someone sitting at the right hand of God.
Jesus is not the almighty God, he was instructed by the almighty God to sit at his right hand.

Quote> and yet you refuse to except that the Father was greater then Jesus.
John 14:28 "Jesus said the
Father was greater then He, not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a
man, and as a man , He was in
a lower position. He was made'
for a little while, lower then the
angels.{Hebrews 2:9}
{Philippians 2:5-8} It says that
Jesus emptied Himself taken a
form of a bond servant and
being made in the likeness of
men... Jesus has two natures:
divine and human, Jesus was
not denying that He was God
He was merely acknowledging
the fact that He was also a man.
Jesus is both God and man, as
a man He was in a lessor
position than the Father
because He had added to
Himself human nature.
Colossians 2:9 "For in Him
dwells all the fullness of the
God head bodily. {And was
under the law}
Galatians 4:4 "But when the
fullness of the time had come,
God sent forth His Son, born of
a woman, born under the law.
{He became a man to die for
the people}

Non of the scriptures you quoted ever said jesus had two natures .

But first let's start from the first verse.
Jesus said the father is greater than him. This statement is true at all point in time, when he was in heaven with the father, when he came to earth and when he returned to heaven, he has always subjected himself to the father, doing the fathers will and receiving instructions from the father.

Did jesus have 2 natures while on earth? No .

When jesus was in heaven, he had that divine nature, but he left that nature and took the nature of man, he did not have both natures at the same time while on earth.
Why do we believe this?
The scriptures say:
Phil 2 :7
rather, he made himself
nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being
made in human likeness.

You can not be nothing if you are taking on a human nature while still having ur divine nature.

Some translations even use " emptied" to signify the complete change in nature.

Verse 8 says: "And being found in fashion as a man,.....

Note it did not say being found in fashion as a man and God. Jesus was now a man, flesh and blood.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Notice that john said jesus was made flesh, not that he had flesh or added flesh to his divine nature.

Some translations say he " became flesh!" .

The fact that jesus became flesh caused the writer of heb to record what is found at heb 2 :9.

Now some few things for you and everyone to consider.
1. If jesus had two natures, can you give an example of what his divine nature did while on earth?
2. When jesus died according to heb 2:9 did his divine nature die too, did God die?
3. Jesus is in heaven now, does he still have the two natures ? As in , does he still have the slaves nature with the divine nature?
If he does, then its safe to say the father is still greater than jesus cus that's the reason why some say jesus said the father is greater than him.

If he does not, can you now tell us when he removed/left the flesh/slave/human form?

When on earth, jesus at no time said he was God. No verse can you find in the scriptures where jesus himself said so. But numerous occassions abound where he said he is the son of man.

You quoted Col 2:9 , I hope you know that. Jesus had that divine quality cus it pleased the father that such quality dwell in him .

Col 1:19
King James Bible
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

A comparison of difference of position can be found in a marriage relationship. Biblically a husband is greater in position
and authority then His wife.
"He" is her head {Ephesians
5:23} but he is no different in
nature, and he is not better then she.
They share the same nature
being human, and they work
together by commitment to the
Lord.

Another good comparison from you again .
Is the husband and wife same person despite having same nature? No
The jesus is not God cus he has the same nature with God.
Likewise the disciples will not become God when they partake

Is the husband and wife equal despite becoming one flesh? No.
Likewise one cannot say jesus is equal to the father despite being one with father.

The scriptures emphasised the wife subjection to the husband despite being one, despite being same nature. The husband is the head of the wife.

Like wise, the scriptures emphasized the subjection of jesus to his God and father despite jesus being in the same nature with God, despite being one. The scriptures let us know that the head of jesus is God and that the father is the God of jesus .

"for he(1st person) hath put all things under his(2nd person) feet.
But when he(1st p.) saith, all things are put under him(2nd p.), it is manifest that
he(1st p.) is excepted, which did put all things under him(2nd p.). And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Note: up to this moment you have still not, using any translations, told us ur view on the scriptures I posted

brocab:
Jesus

Jesus is the God of jesus ?

Are you saying jesus was the one talking in heb 1:9 ? Ha!

I for one know who jesus called his God . It can be found in john 20:17

Also who jesus called the only true God , it can be found in john 17: 1-3

Also who the disciples call the God of jesus, these can be found in eph 1:3, 2 cor 1:3 and many other verses in the scriptures.

brocab:
You have also refused to tell us viewers why did the JW's take out so many scriptures from the bible.
You also have refused to answer what was the name of the author who wrote the New World Translation bible from the Greek language to English.
You also refuse to listen to any truth about Christ.
You have even named some scriptures to be false doctrines.
I have asked you to rewrite the scriptures, but you are refusing to answer.
You don't understand how my mind works, only because you don't understand the word of God.
Jesus came here to die for the people, the bible was written to help us understand the scriptures about Him, which makes it difficult for you, You don't even have a bible, but a book that tells you that Jesus isn't God in the flesh.

They did not remove any verse from the bible. If you truly believe that they did, please list just two or three for starters, do not lift all from a webpage and dump it here, let me and you examine it in not too cumbersome manner. So list three verses for starters.
I will show you the many bible translations that also do not have such verses in their versions.
I will also tell you why you can't find such verses in their translations.

What do you want to do with the name of the authors? Their work is easy to access and examined to see if they are right or wrong.
I look at what you have done not who you are.

Remember, no one has seen God at any time.!

Did you watch the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnngqQYvc

dolphinheart:


Jesus is the God of jesus ?

Are you saying jesus was the one talking in heb 1:9 ? Ha!

I for one know who jesus called his God . It can be found in john 20:17

Also who jesus called the only true God , it can be found in john 17: 1-3

Also who the disciples call the God of jesus, these can be found in eph 1:3, 2 cor 1:3 and many other verses in the scriptures.

samted:


1 peter 3 vs 18 - 20 (KJV) says: ¹⁸ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: ¹⁹ By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; ²⁰ Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Now, if you're well versed in the English language (to a reasonable extent at least) you'd know that v18 which says He was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit, doesn't refer to the resurrection in any way. He was quickened by the spirit is explained in v19 which says BY WHICH (through the spirit), He went and preached unto spirits in prison, continue to v20 which says that those spirits were sometime disobedient to God in the days of Noah.

A better understanding of the word " quickened" is used by other translators which says "he was made alive in the spirit". Notice this part came after it said "he was put to death in the body".
These verse helps me to understand that jesus was resurrected, unless you can give us another example of quickened other than it means jesus was made alive.

You'd agree with me that those spirits which were disobedient to God in the days of Noah were once humans who had long passed before the coming of Jesus.

No I do not agree with you, and I have two reasons for not doing so.
1. The scriptures never called those humans who where disobedient during noahs time spirits, it called them souls and flesh.
2. It was not only humans that where disobedient during noahs time. Spirit creatures where also disobedient and they where not humans.

If this is so, it only makes sense to say that they were cast into a place of punishment (not eternal damnation) to await judgment. And due to the fact that they hadn't heard the gospel, Jesus went to preach to them and offer them a chance at salvation...this chance we have every single day we hear the word.

Now, what was casted, the soul, the spirit or both? And do you have any scripture to surpport these? .

For a fact that the scriptures never said the spirit goes to hell shows that the spirit jesus went to make proclamations to where not in hell, which therefore makes ur post that jesus preached in hell to be false.
Also the verses never even made mention of hell .

A further look at the verses and ur response shows that it is wrong to view that jesus went to preach to people who died during noahs time. The verse was specific about who jesus went to meet, and you said it was because they have not heard jesus. What about those who where disobedient after noahs time but before jesus or even abraham?

These shows that jesus went to spirits(angels) who where disobedient during noahs time.
2 pet2:4
Certainly God did not refrain
from punishing the angels who
sinned, but threw them into
Tarʹta·rus, putting them in
chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.

Being in chains is synonymous with being in prison as said in the verses. And these verse above made mention of angels who where disobedient, the next verse mentioned noahs time in the sequence.
Now the question is where angels disobedient during noahs time ? Yes

Read the book of Jude and notice the time when these happened in the sequence
Jude 6
And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds
in dense darkness for the
judgment of the great day.

These are the spirits jesus went to make proclamation to and not humans in hell cus
1. Human spirit dnt go to hell
2. Only dead people go to hell and these spirits are not dead.
3. Only humans go to hell.

Another worrying part is the part that you said those who are in hell has a chance to repent after being disobedient on earth! That's not what the scriptures taught me.

samted:


so you mean to tell me that when a person dies, the spirit, whether good or bad, returns to God?

Lol guy calm down I didn't tell u dat am sure u read it from the copy of your bible. nw ask yourself if u really believe wat the bible says cuz its wat shld be our authority........ but come to tink of it who put the 1st there in the 1st place......does it belong to any oda person oda Dan the creator and maker of all tins....God

If the many scriptures are to much for you' to keep up with the times, Then try these>Matthew 17:21 Acts 8:37 Matthew 18:11 And I don't want you to bring up any other scriptures, that sounds like these scriptures missing from your bible.
Just explain to me, why the bibles had removed them. I am all ears to the truth.
Will you watch the video.
It's really important for you to tell me, who the names of the authors are? Don't judge the video by it's cover watch the inside of the video.
I have seen the many so called bibles myself, old Satan is really getting his hands dirty this time, Christians need to keep on seeking the word of God, their will be a time, no-man will be able to seek the truth about Christ, not even your bible will be useful, and that holds little information about the truth.
This is good news, Christ is coming back sooner, Jesus said: My sheep knows My voice, This is why you need to watch the video, learn the ins and outs about yourselves, watching the video will blow your mind, I won't tell another JW, if you don't tell, they don't have to know. Without you telling me, I would know.
Watch the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnngqQYvc

dolphinheart:


They did not remove any verse from the bible. If you truly believe that they did, please list just two or three for starters, do not lift all from a webpage and dump it here, let me and you examine it in not too cumbersome manner. So list three verses for starters.
I will show you the many bible translations that also do not have such verses in their versions.
I will also tell you why you can't find such verses in their translations.

What do you want to do with the name of the authors? Their work is easy to access and examined to see if they are right or wrong.
I look at what you have done not who you are.

Remember, no one has seen God at any time.!

dolphinheart:


A better understanding of the word " quickened" is used by other translators which says "he was made alive in the spirit". Notice this part came after it said "he was put to death in the body".
These verse helps me to understand that jesus was resurrected, unless you can give us another example of quickened other than it means jesus was made alive.


No I do not agree with you, and I have two reasons for not doing so.
1. The scriptures never called those humans who where disobedient during noahs time spirits, it called them souls and flesh.
2. It was not only humans that where disobedient during noahs time. Spirit creatures where also disobedient and they where not humans.



Now, what was casted, the soul, the spirit or both? And do you have any scripture to surpport these? .

For a fact that the scriptures never said the spirit goes to hell shows that the spirit jesus went to make proclamations to where not in hell, which therefore makes ur post that jesus preached in hell to be false.
Also the verses never even made mention of hell .

A further look at the verses and ur response shows that it is wrong to view that jesus went to preach to people who died during noahs time. The verse was specific about who jesus went to meet, and you said it was because they have not heard jesus. What about those who where disobedient after noahs time but before jesus or even abraham?

These shows that jesus went to spirits(angels) who where disobedient during noahs time.
2 pet2:4
Certainly God did not refrain
from punishing the angels who
sinned, but threw them into
Tarʹta·rus, putting them in
chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.

Being in chains is synonymous with being in prison as said in the verses. And these verse above made mention of angels who where disobedient, the next verse mentioned noahs time in the sequence.
Now the question is where angels disobedient during noahs time ? Yes

Read the book of Jude and notice the time when these happened in the sequence
Jude 6
And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds
in dense darkness for the
judgment of the great day.

These are the spirits jesus went to make proclamation to and not humans in hell cus
1. Human spirit dnt go to hell
2. Only dead people go to hell and these spirits are not dead.
3. Only humans go to hell.

Another worrying part is the part that you said those who are in hell has a chance to repent after being disobedient on earth! That's not what the scriptures taught me.

ok... i think we've totally digressed from the original argument. i'm tired

It's always a problem when talking to atheist, even if they are branded with the name JW. On this page watch the video, it will blow your mind.

samted:


ok... i think we've totally digressed from the original argument. i'm tired

Meaning to divine? Godly, Godlike, Spiritual, heavenly, celestial body,and more, is Jesus "divine? Watch the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnngqQYvc

dolphinheart:
@ brocab


Its good you quoted that verse.

1. Can you see where it says " from now on"?
Does this not tell you that jesus was not sitting there before?

2. Can you also read the part that says " the son of man will be seated at the right hand of almighty God?
This tells you that jesus is not almighty God, but a God that is subjected to the almighty God. Sitting at the right hand of God should tell you that jesus is not that same God that he is seated at the right hand of.

3. Now let's see if jesus was instructed to sit at the right hand or not

Ps 110:1
Of David. A melody.
Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
King James Bible
A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy
footstool.

Matt 22:44
King James Bible
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 1:3
King James Bible
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

So who is the God that told jesus to sit at his right hand? Answer : jehovah.
Who is the God of jesus? The father!

The father instructed jesus to sit at his right hand, jesus did not just sit there on his own, he said "he will be seated there" cus of the assurance giving to him by his God and father despite facing death.

That is why Stevens vision is accurate when he said the following :

Acts 7:55,56
[b]But he, being full of the Holy
Ghost, looked up stedfastly
into heaven, and saw the glory
of God, and Jesus standing on
the right hand of God,

And said, Behold, I see the
heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Hope the holy spirit in you will help you see jesus not as God , but as someone sitting at the right hand of God.
Jesus is not the almighty God, he was instructed by the almighty God to sit at his right hand.



Non of the scriptures you quoted ever said jesus had two natures .

But first let's start from the first verse.
Jesus said the father is greater than him. This statement is true at all point in time, when he was in heaven with the father, when he came to earth and when he returned to heaven, he has always subjected himself to the father, doing the fathers will and receiving instructions from the father.

Did jesus have 2 natures while on earth? No .

When jesus was in heaven, he had that divine nature, but he left that nature and took the nature of man, he did not have both natures at the same time while on earth.
Why do we believe this?
The scriptures say:
Phil 2 :7
rather, he made himself
nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being
made in human likeness.

You can not be nothing if you are taking on a human nature while still having ur divine nature.

Some translations even use " emptied" to signify the complete change in nature.

Verse 8 says: "And being found in fashion as a man,.....

Note it did not say being found in fashion as a man and God. Jesus was now a man, flesh and blood.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Notice that john said jesus was made flesh, not that he had flesh or added flesh to his divine nature.

Some translations say he " became flesh!" .

The fact that jesus became flesh caused the writer of heb to record what is found at heb 2 :9.

Now some few things for you and everyone to consider.
1. If jesus had two natures, can you give an example of what his divine nature did while on earth?
2. When jesus died according to heb 2:9 did his divine nature die too, did God die?
3. Jesus is in heaven now, does he still have the two natures ? As in , does he still have the slaves nature with the divine nature?
If he does, then its safe to say the father is still greater than jesus cus that's the reason why some say jesus said the father is greater than him.

If he does not, can you now tell us when he removed/left the flesh/slave/human form?

When on earth, jesus at no time said he was God. No verse can you find in the scriptures where jesus himself said so. But numerous occassions abound where he said he is the son of man.

You quoted Col 2:9 , I hope you know that. Jesus had that divine quality cus it pleased the father that such quality dwell in him .

Col 1:19
King James Bible
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;



Another good comparison from you again .
Is the husband and wife same person despite having same nature? No
The jesus is not God cus he has the same nature with God.
Likewise the disciples will not become God when they partake

Is the husband and wife equal despite becoming one flesh? No.
Likewise one cannot say jesus is equal to the father despite being one with father.

The scriptures emphasised the wife subjection to the husband despite being one, despite being same nature. The husband is the head of the wife.

Like wise, the scriptures emphasized the subjection of jesus to his God and father despite jesus being in the same nature with God, despite being one. The scriptures let us know that the head of jesus is God and that the father is the God of jesus .

"for he(1st person) hath put all things under his(2nd person) feet.
But when he(1st p.) saith, all things are put under him(2nd p.), it is manifest that
he(1st p.) is excepted, which did put all things under him(2nd p.). And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Note: up to this moment you have still not, using any translations, told us ur view on the scriptures I posted

John 15:26 "But when the helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of ME.
One question that should be asked, Since Jehovah is the One God, and Jesus is the One Lord, Does this mean that Jehovah isn't the one Lord?
Luke 10:21 "I thank you Father lord of heaven and earth.
Jehovah Witnesses only believe in one God? But refuse to believe the Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3-4, Psalm 139:7-8, 1 Corinthians 2:10-11.
The Holy Spirit is identified as a Person by John, using in the Greek masculine {ekeinos}
InJohn 16:13"The Holy Spirit is presented as a personal being with a self-identify different from both the Father and the Son. As the Father and Jesus His distinction when speaking of Him, the Holy Spirit says separate Barnabas and Saul to Me.
Acts 13:2 "As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.
The JW's believe the Holy Spirit is not God, but an active force? An active force can't speak, but a person can, the Holy Spirit said now separate Barnabas and Saul to Me.
Its even written in the New World Translation. So which is it, the Spirit is a active force, or He is a person like Jesus was.

@ brocab

I have got to say you are right about the New international version bible, The old international version is the one to keep.

I did not say anything on the NIV, either old or new. Its just part of the list of numerous translations that dnt have the quote that you posted on 1 john 5:7.
Before you start saying they are wrong for not having that quote, pls first do a research on why they dnt have it.

" The Executive Editor of the NKJV, Arthur L. Farstad, addressed textual concerns in a book explaining the NKJV translation philosophy. While defending the Majority Text(also called the Byzantine text type), and claiming that the Textus Receptus is inferior to the Majority Text, he noted (p.114) that the NKJV references significant discrepancies among text types in its marginal notes: "None of the three [textual] traditions on every page of the New Testament ... is labeled 'best' or 'most reliable.' The reader is permitted to make up his or her own mind about the correct reading."

Arthur L. Farstad, "The
New King James Version in the
Great Tradition," 2nd edition,
1989, Thomas Nelson
Publishers, ISBN
0-8407-3148-5.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_King_James_Version#Translation_philosophy

So do a research and then make up your mind!.

A good place to Start is the footnote of the later version of the translation you accept , the NKJV.
It says below :
1 John 5:8 NU-Text and M Text omit the words from in heaven (verse 7) through on earth (verse . Only four or five very late manuscripts contain these words in Greek.

Question to guide your research: if the old(est) manuscript do not have those quotes, how come their later copies have it.

I will check up those other bibles you mention and see who else is being deceived.
I advise we Christians should
study the word, before they try
to take all the scriptures away
from us, soon that time will
come, once they get rid off the
believers in Christ, their will be
no-one left to preach the
gospel, and we can't rely on
you. You have another gospel.

Pls do so and tell us ur views in your reply to this post.
Your advice is good, people should study Gods word so that they can know those translations that has deliberately removed the name of God from the holy scriptures and replaced it with " LORD" like the kjv or have deliberately keep a later addition to the word of God in their translation.

Don't forget watch that great video I have sent you.
How cool does this sound, we
will meet the lord in the air, in no time just with a blink of an eye.

Sorry, I'm not watching any video.
Video is not a proof, but a propaganda.

Again these scriptures and statement you have failed to address in my post .

1. I'm surprised you did not add 1 ti 3:16 to the verses you
have issues with .at least kjv
translated it thus:
King James Bible
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.
Ill ask you, is the kjv right with
that translation? And why do
most translators that surpport
trinity translate that verse
differently.

2. Look at your quote of john
17:3 again tell us if you
deliberately misquoted the
verse or it was just a mistake
you made.
I made effort to quote the
verse for you again, and you
are still refusing to tell us ur
understanding of the verse.
3. Be looking for author while
refusing to address the fact
that you removed Gods name
from the bible verse you
quoted.
4. No you have not, you only
quoted 2 translations without
telling us why one person
called himself the God of
another .
"You loved righteousness,
and you hated lawlessness.
That is why God, your God,
anointed you with the oil of
exultation more than your
companions"

5 .I , you , everyone reading
this thread can see that you have once again refused to explain or give ur understanding of that verse. Quoting it completely is now even hard for you to do.
John 20:17
King James Bible
Jesus saith unto her, Touch
me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but
go to my brethren, and say
unto them, I ascend unto my
Father, and your Father; and
to my God, and your God.

5 .Jesus was giving obeisance
as the bible and Jesus has
always indicated that it is only
the father, jehovah that must
be worshiped.
Note the fact that it is God, the
father, the God of Jesus, the
only true God that authorised
this obeisance.

Jesus is not the true God, not
the almighty God, not equal to
the almighty God, not the
father.

6. . Another 2 verses to
consider :
1 pet 1:3
King James Bible
"Blessed be the God and
Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, which according to his
(to show that God is a person)
abundant mercy hath
begotten us again unto a lively
hope by the resurrection of
Jesus Christ from the dead."
Nwt
1 cor 15 :24
"Next, the end, when he
hands over the Kingdom to
his God and Father, when he
has brought to nothing all
government and all authority
and power."

brocab:
Did you watch the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnngqQYvc

No!.
I do not watch videos put up by person(s) who already had an agenda. Their agenda or aim will not allow them say the truth.

I do not need a video to understand who the God of jesus is , the scriptures has been explicitely explicit and specific on that subject, as shown to you in the post you replied to, jesus, God himself, the disciples and several other writers have shown you that the father, jehovah, the supreme being, the almighty, the majesty on high, is the God of jesus Christ!

If I'm wrong, then tell us ur view of the scriptures quoted.
1.heb 1:9
2. John 20:17
3. John 17:1-3
4. Eph 1:3
5. 2 cor 1:3

brocab:
Meaning to divine? Godly, Godlike, Spiritual, heavenly, celestial body,and more, is Jesus "divine? Watch the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnngqQYvc

if devil produces video to attack jw, you will still ask people to watch it just to spread lies about jw.

@ brocab

If the many scriptures are to much for you' to keep up with the times, Then try
these> Matthew 17:21 Acts 8:37 Matthew 18:11 And I don't want you to bring up any other
scriptures, that sounds like
these scriptures missing from
your bible.
Just explain to me, why the
bibles had removed them. I am
all ears to the truth.

Matt 17:21

The following translations do not have the verse.(the list is not complete as there are many others who do not have that verse also).

New International Version
New Living Translation
English Standard Version
Berean Study Bible
Berean Literal Bible
NET Bible
GOD'S WORD® Translation
English Revised Version

Therefore, the notion that its only the NWT that does not have the verse in its translation is wrong!.

Some of those translations that have it had this to say in their footnotes
1. NASB
Matthew 17:21 Early mss do not contain this.
2.ISV
Matthew 17:21 Other mss.
lack this verse.
3.NKJV
a. Matthew 17:21 NU-Text
omits this verse.

This footnote shows you that those who added words to Matt 17:21 know that there is something wrong with their additions.

According to The Greek New Testament (4th Edition), edited by Aland, Metzger, et al. (2012), this verse does not appear in
the best Greek manuscripts available.
A Textual Commentary on
the Greek New Testament (2nd Edition, 2012).
On page 35 he writes the. following:
17.21 omit verse {A} Since there is no satisfactory reason why the passage, if originally
present in Matthew,
should have been omitted in a wide variety of witnesses, and since copyists frequently
inserted material derived from another Gospel, it appears that
most manuscripts have been assimilated to the parallel in Mk 9.29.

So my friend, that verse is not in the translations cus its not in the manuscripts that was used by them. And the manuscripts they used is the oldest and most reliable which was found after the kjv had been written.

These same explanation applies to the other two scriptures. They where not in the oldest and most original manuscripts, hence the question, how come they found there way into later copies?
Answer: scribal errors(now being corrected in newer translations) and deliberate additions by some.

Will you watch the video.
It's really important for you to
tell me, who the names of the
authors are? Don't judge the
video by it's cover watch the
inside of the video.

Who created the video.

I have seen the many so called bibles myself, old Satan is really getting his hands dirty this time,

He has been for a long time, he has Decieved some people into adding words to their copy of the scriptures. Jehovah contered the spread of those false additions by revealing earlier, more reliable manuscripts in which those words where not found.

Christians need to keep on seeking the word of God, their will be a time, no-man will be able to seek the truth about
Christ, not even your bible will
be useful, and that holds little
information about the truth.

That is what you wish for, but that is not what the bible says.

This is good news, Christ is coming back sooner, Jesus said: My sheep knows My voice, This is why you need to watch the video, learn the ins and outs about yourselves,
watching the video will blow
your mind, I won't tell another
JW, if you don't tell, they don't
have to know. Without you
telling me, I would know.
Watch the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=u5JnngqQYvc

I listen to jesus who said : this means evalasting life , their taking knowledge of you, the only true God, and the one you sent, jesus Christ! .
I now know how to gain evalasting life, by reading and applying the word of God, the father, our creator, the only true God.

The video was made by the JW's.
It shows that no-one had added Matthew 17:21 in your bible nor the other scriptures I had given you, you have verse Matthew 20 and 22 Usually when we read any book, they are all numbered, from one to what ever.
Your bible had completely removed it all together.
The disciples wrote the scriptures told there stories the way they had seen it, the way they were taught either by Christ or His Spirit.
Matthew mark Luke, line up together having different view points. Which is important for the readers to see and understand the truth, everything about the bible comes in three's.
2 Corinthians 13:1 "This is the third time I am coming to you.
The number 3 is used 467 times in the bible, Jesus is coming back His third time. Jesus manifested to His disciples 3 times, after He was raised from the dead, God the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are one made from three.
As I had asked, I don't want any other scriptures to back it up, just tell me why did the JW's remove verse 21 along with the other scriptures that are missing from your bible?
These other bibles say NIV was written by Zondervan-but is now owned by Harper Collins, who also publishes the Satanic bible, and the joy of Gay sex. The NIV has removed 64,575 words from the bible including Jehovah. The NIV ESV and other Versions have also removed 45 complete verses.
Every bible that has been written has a story behind the scenes.

dolphinheart:
@ brocab



Matt 17:21

The following translations do not have the verse.(the list is not complete as there are many others who do not have that verse also).

New International Version
New Living Translation
English Standard Version
Berean Study Bible
Berean Literal Bible
NET Bible
GOD'S WORD® Translation
English Revised Version

Therefore, the notion that its only the NWT that does not have the verse in its translation is wrong!.

Some of those translations that have it had this to say in their footnotes
1. NASB
Matthew 17:21 Early mss do not contain this.
2.ISV
Matthew 17:21 Other mss.
lack this verse.
3.NKJV
a. Matthew 17:21 NU-Text
omits this verse.

This footnote shows you that those who added words to Matt 17:21 know that there is something wrong with their additions.

According to The Greek New Testament (4th Edition), edited by Aland, Metzger, et al. (2012), this verse does not appear in
the best Greek manuscripts available.
A Textual Commentary on
the Greek New Testament (2nd Edition, 2012).
On page 35 he writes the. following:
17.21 omit verse {A} Since there is no satisfactory reason why the passage, if originally
present in Matthew,
should have been omitted in a wide variety of witnesses, and since copyists frequently
inserted material derived from another Gospel, it appears that
most manuscripts have been assimilated to the parallel in Mk 9.29.

So my friend, that verse is not in the translations cus its not in the manuscripts that was used by them. And the manuscripts they used is the oldest and most reliable which was found after the kjv had been written.

These same explanation applies to the other two scriptures. They where not in the oldest and most original manuscripts, hence the question, how come they found there way into later copies?
Answer: scribal errors(now being corrected in newer translations) and deliberate additions by some.


Who created the video.


He has been for a long time, he has Decieved some people into adding words to their copy of the scriptures. Jehovah contered the spread of those false additions by revealing earlier, more reliable manuscripts in which those words where not found.

That is what you wish for, but that is not what the bible says.



I listen to jesus who said : this means evalasting life , their taking knowledge of you, the only true God, and the one you sent, jesus Christ! .
I now know how to gain evalasting life, by reading and applying the word of God, the father, our creator, the only true God.

The JW's had produced this video? So what do you say about that?

joyandfaith:

if devil produces video to attack jw, you will still ask people to watch it just to spread lies about jw.

TRINITYOFGOD:
. The Only Rational Conclusion

Let me recap. The Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3,4). The Holy Spirit, by way of comparisons between the Old and the New Testament, is shown to be deity (Ex. 17:2,7 cf. Heb. 3:9; Jer. 31:31-34 cf. Heb. 10:15-17; etc.) and the Holy Spirit is eternal, all-knowing, all-powerful and everywhere present. Therefore, Mr. and Mrs. Jehovah's Witness, the only rational thing to conclude is, that the Bible teaches the Trinity doctrine even though the word itself is not found in the Bible. By the way, many words are not found in the Bible, but they are taught. The word bible is not in the Bible. The word millennium is not found in the Bible, but it is certainly taught several times at least in Revelation chapter 20. Just because the word is not there does not mean it's not taught. The Trinity doctrine is taught in the Bible.
Hopefully, if you can share this information with an open Jehovah's Witness, and there are some, they will see just what these Scriptures are teaching and they'll cling to this truth. I would recommend that when you're dealing with a Jehovah's Witness that you avoid, if possible, the subject of the Trinity and go to the subject of salvation. But if you can't, and you must give an answer for the Trinity doctrine, then let me recommend the evidence that I just brought forth

God bless you immensely brother. Amen!

samted:


ok... i think we've totally digressed from the original argument. i'm tired

Sorry that we digressed, was just trying to show you who the spirits that jesus made proclamations to where and that spirits dnt go to hell.

brocab:
Until you can describe God in the bible-then you may understand the word was with God and the word was God, but because you can't explain it to me, you won't understand John 1:1 "These very scriptures are written so we can understand them clearly, it takes the Holy Spirit to teach us spiritually, without the Holy Spirit-you have Buckley's and none, to even know the hidden secrets about the bible.
I am trying to help you, but without you having the Spirit of God, I feel it's impossible even trying.
Are you a JW?

A totally Confuse man .

samted:


eccl 9:5 is talking about 'the dead' (DEAD PEOPLE) not their spirits. The spirit leaves the person (vessel) after death.

O ma se o , what is spirit pls ? Hope u know animals have one spirit with man too ?

and eccl 9:10 acknowledges that there is a realm of the dead (sheol) or hell or the grave where there is no work or planning.

It says , Where ****YOU*** note : you, are going , do u now belive that dead people go to grave as u testify above ?