dearpreye:


The RCCG runs runs a system akin to the one Nigeria runs as a people....embellishing while corners are impoverished......70% of whatever a parish ends up leaving the parishes, whether the parish is building or not is immaterial....it has to go....

70%-30% and you're complaining. In mfm 80% of what a parish makes goes to the region, the region will then send it to the headquarters. The remaining 20% is for the church. Upon dat, they don't pay their pastors they just giv them ridiculous stipends and still control you the members on what and what not to put on as if you're kids.

In Nigeria the only God that truly exist is money. Money is the only God people are seeking and hoping for when they visit these religious houses. Pastors only preach about how God will make your rich, give you money, make you prosper in all that you do, give you that dream job, give you that dream wife/husband, secure your life, make you happy etc. Everything that goes on in the Nigerian church is all about personal aggrandizement.

This show of shame continues to linger, because most people are poor and badly in need of money, the pastors know these things and are willing to exploit people to the fullest. Our churches are always full only because our society is so disorganized and our people want money(Sermons in churches begin and end with money and personal aggrandizement). The Nigerian churches preach and promote nothing but selfishness, greed, criminality, confusion and madness. This is evident in the society. You will always, I repeat always trust an irreligious non church attending and non God believing European with your 1000 euros, than trust a bible wielding and constantly church attending Nigerian with your 10,000 naira. That reason alone has shown us that our churches have failed us, they are all business empires, where people go and buy hope(they tell you that your lives will get better always if only you pay God for it by sowing seed or giving tithes). It is only in Nigeria that hope is sold to people for money. And the place where hope is sold is called the church.

Candour:


Dear vooks, how are u doing bro?

These our mog never stop in their determination to bring Christianity into ridicule. Imagine the brazen exploitation?

I'm faring well in Jesus Christ. The relationship between h/o and branches is a thorny one. First, the H/o has overheads, is a cost center so to speak seeing it receives no offerings. So it's overheads must be spread out across all branches.

If it were down to me, I'd spread h/o's budget for the year together with a 10% contingency across all parishes/zones on the basis of their previous year's total revenues. They can keep the rest as soon as they meet their quota. The zones will then escalate their share to the individual branches.

But come to think of it, mega churches with hundreds of branches just attract needless nightmares. Why not commission ministers and release them? The size and numbers just pamper GO's ego.

Does it not strike you as funny that mainstream churches, Anglican, Presbyterian and Catholic have no such worries with branch management? There is something wrong with Pentecostalism, and this is imagining that you can suspend common sense and receive spiritual wisdom instead. We need to study how these 'unspiritual' institutions do their thing

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dalaman:
In Nigeria the only God that truly exist is money. Money is the only God people are seeking and hoping for when they visit these religious houses. Pastors only preach about how God will make your rich, give you money, make you prosper in all that you do, give you that dream job, give you that dream wife/husband, secure your life, make you happy etc. Everything that goes on in the Nigerian church is all about personal aggrandizement.

This show of shame continues to linger, because most people are poor and badly in need of money, the pastors know these things and are willing to exploit people to the fullest. Our churches are always full only because our society is so disorganized and our people want money(Sermons in churches begin and end with money and personal aggrandizement). The Nigerian churches preach and promote nothing but selfishness, greed, criminality, confusion and madness. This is evident in the society. You will always, I repeat always trust an irreligious non church attending and non God believing European with your 1000 euros, than trust a bible wielding and constantly church attending Nigerian with your 10,000 naira. That reason alone has shown us that our churches have failed us, they are all business empires, where people go and buy hope(they tell you that your lives will get better in always if only you pay God for it by sowing seed or giving tithes). It is only in Nigeria that hope is sold to people for money. And the place where hope is sold is called the church.

[/size]
Atheism is the answer, ain't it plaetton ?

vooks:
[size=1pt][/size]
Atheism is the answer, ain't it plaetton ?

vooks:

I'm faring well in Jesus Christ. The relationship between h/o and branches is a thorny one. First, the H/o has overheads, is a cost center so to speak seeing it receives no offerings. So it's overheads must be spread out across all branches.

If it were down to me, I'd spread h/o's budget for the year together with a 10% contingency across all parishes/zones on the basis of their previous year's total revenues. They can keep the rest as soon as they meet their quota. The zones will then escalate their share to the individual branches.

But come to think of it, mega churches with hundreds of branches just attract needless nightmares. Why not commission ministers and release them? The size and numbers just pamper GO's ego.

Does it not strike you as funny that mainstream churches, Anglican, Presbyterian and Catholic have no such worries with branch management? There is something wrong with Pentecostalism, and this is imagining that you can suspend common sense and receive spiritual wisdom instead. We need to study how these 'unspiritual' institutions do their thing

That is because you guys are worshiping nobody but your selves.

dalaman:


That is because you guys are worshiping nobody but your selves.

You are so full of wisdom, Eistein step aside for this genius

asdfjklhaha:

70%-30% and you're complaining. In mfm 80% of what a parish makes goes to the region, the region will then send it to the headquarters. The remaining 20% is for the church. Upon dat, they don't pay their pastors they just giv them ridiculous stipends and still control you the members on what and what not to put on as if you're kids.

It's really absurd. Why are the local branches muscled out financially while the HQs feed fat on their resources?

The same issue of insulting stipends happens in the RCCG. My former pastor, having no stable job, was always embarrassingly broke......even when we tried to incorporate his basic needs into our parish accounts, the lazy province refused.

Those province guys are demigods.....you refuse to do their bidding and you're thrown into one obscure, small corner as a parish in one far away village.

dalaman:
In Nigeria the only God that truly exist is money. Money is the only God people are seeking and hoping for when they visit these religious houses. Pastors only preach about how God will make your rich, give you money, make you prosper in all that you do, give you that dream job, give you that dream wife/husband, secure your life, make you happy etc. Everything that goes on in the Nigerian church is all about personal aggrandizement.

This show of shame continues to linger, because most people are poor and badly in need of money, the pastors know these things and are willing to exploit people to the fullest. Our churches are always full only because our society is so disorganized and our people want money(Sermons in churches begin and end with money and personal aggrandizement). The Nigerian churches preach and promote nothing but selfishness, greed, criminality, confusion and madness. This is evident in the society. You will always, I repeat always trust an irreligious non church attending and non God believing European with your 1000 euros, than trust a bible wielding and constantly church attending Nigerian with your 10,000 naira. That reason alone has shown us that our churches have failed us, they are all business empires, where people go and buy hope(they tell you that your lives will get better in always if only you pay God for it by sowing seed or giving tithes). It is only in Nigeria that hope is sold to people for money. And the place where hope is sold is called the church.

Very correct. The system is badly organised and it's showing in the manner we attend church programmes. The joblessness and poverty is real. Men are in dire need of a message of hope and wherever such messages are found, the people go with their resources and enrich the givers of that message.

It's being long since Nigerian version of Christianity has irked me. It numbs your common sense, kills your creativity and innovative sense, makes you shriek from your responsibility, and leaves you poorer than ever before.

It's never God's duty to make men wealthy; that's their duty. God gives ideas and other resources.

Isn't it so obivous that these so called religious structures are just 'spiritual' enterprises?

No tax whatsoever. They are free to raise funds and these funds aren't monitored.

They build new 'branches' and install a 'manager/pastor'. These branches are all linked efficiently, designed to take orders from the top, God's own appointed.

What if RCCG had as its mandate, a technical workshop every 5km?
If this isn't a scam, I don't know what is.

vooks:

I'm faring well in Jesus Christ. The relationship between h/o and branches is a thorny one. First, the H/o has overheads, is a cost center so to speak seeing it receives no offerings. So it's overheads must be spread out across all branches.

If it were down to me, I'd spread h/o's budget for the year together with a 10% contingency across all parishes/zones on the basis of their previous year's total revenues. They can keep the rest as soon as they meet their quota. The zones will then escalate their share to the individual branches.

But come to think of it, mega churches with hundreds of branches just attract needless nightmares. Why not commission ministers and release them? The size and numbers just pamper GO's ego.

Does it not strike you as funny that mainstream churches, Anglican, Presbyterian and Catholic have no such worries with branch management? There is something wrong with Pentecostalism, and this is imagining that you can suspend common sense and receive spiritual wisdom instead. We need to study how these 'unspiritual' institutions do their thing

I totally agree with your closing paragraph. This madness is very prevalent within Pentecostals. You can't suspend the deployment of common sense. Chaos will follow.

dearpreye:


It's really absurd. Why are the local branches muscled out financially while the HQs feed fat on their resources?

The same issue of insulting stipends happens in the RCCG. My former pastor, having no stable job, was always embarrassingly broke......even when we tried to incorporate his basic needs into our parish accounts, the lazy province refused.

Those province guys are demigods.....you refuse to do their bidding and you're thrown into one obscure, small corner as a parish in one far away village.

Christianity is more like running a business in Nigeria. Everything about it is politics. A pastor in a small branch will be due for promotion but because he doesn't have an RO godfather, they will dump him in a bush far away from his previous branch with zero relocation and accommodation allowance, then take their boys who don't have the fear of God and make them zonal pastors.
For me I go to church just to fulfill that scripture that says let's not forsake the gathering of the brethen. There's nothing spiritual about nigerian churches these days. Pastors now fornicate with members, pastors use harsh words on their workers like bastard, devil...etc. So when such person mounts the pulpit, do you thing the power of God will move?
they just shout and make noise so that at the end of the day, you'll release your money to them in the name of sowing seeds.
May God help us all.

dearpreye:


It's really absurd. Why are the local branches muscled out financially while the HQs feed fat on their resources?

The same issue of insulting stipends happens in the RCCG. My former pastor, having no stable job, was always embarrassingly broke......even when we tried to incorporate his basic needs into our parish accounts, the lazy province refused.

Those province guys are demigods.....you refuse to do their bidding and you're thrown into one obscure, small corner as a parish in one far away village.

Funny. I was head of one of the departments in one of the parishes under KIng's Palace. I'm not gonna be specific for obvious reasons.

I was privileged to work with the finance department, so I'm a bit familiar with the financial rules of the RCCG and how most money is remitted to HQ. It would surprise most to know that the HQ also gets money from HOUSE fellowship centers..that small offering for evening.. chai..


If salvation is free, why is maintaining it so expensive? Who's profiting from salvation? Why must thanks to God be expressed in naira? Think Brother.

cc:

sonOfLucifer:

Funny. I was head of one of the departments in one of the parishes under KIng's Palace. I'm not gonna be specific for obvious reasons.

I was privileged to work with the finance department, so I'm a bit familiar with the financial rules of the RCCG and how most money is remitted to HQ. It would surprise most to know that the HQ also gets money from HOUSE fellowship centers..that small offering for evening.. chai..

If salvation is free, why is maintaining it so expensive? Who's profiting from salvation? Why must thanks to God be expressed in naira? Think Brother.

Why must thanksgiving be expressed in Naira? I've been bothered about it for many years.

Brother, I'm aware these folks even collect our house fellowship money- money meant to cater to the needs of the units....chai.....they even force the children's church to remit from their peanuts....

This na madness. They've tried to make me a minister but I no gree......I can't stand these looting..

dearpreye:


I totally agree with your closing paragraph. This madness is very prevalent within Pentecostals. You can't suspend the deployment of common sense. Chaos will follow.

My broda,
Go back to Eden. God has just created Adam. He gives him an assignment; naming all the animals. Imagine Adam rushing back to God in prayer and 21-day fasting for revelation of what names to give to animals! Further imagine Adam refusing to give names except God gives him names. This is exactly what happens when we delegate back to God what He delegated to us.

When God gave you a brain, you are supposed to use that. You can't possibly fail to use it and demand or expect God to come to your aid.

Having said that, I understand that God is perfect but human beings made in His image are imperfect. He may delegate some perfect responsibilities to imperfect beings and you can bet less than perfect results ensue. This is why no congregation or church is perfect. In the early church in Acts, there was some murmuring about mismanagement of funds. You may want to start your perfect one and a few years from now, somebody will be ranting here about how unreasonable you are.

May I ask what you intend to do about this?

asdfjklhaha:

Christianity is more like running a business in Nigeria. Everything about it is politics. A pastor in a small branch will be due for promotion but because he doesn't have an RO godfather, they will dump him in a bush far away from his previous branch with zero relocation and accommodation allowance, then take their boys who don't have the fear of God and make them zonal pastors.
For me I go to church just to fulfill that scripture that says let's not forsake the gathering of the brethen. There's nothing spiritual about nigerian churches these days. Pastors now fornicate with members, pastors use harsh words on their workers like bastard, devil...etc. So when such person mounts the pulpit, do you thing the power of God will move?
they just shout and make noise so that at the end of the day, you'll release your money to them in the name of sowing seeds.
May God help us all.

Abeg, me don tire oooo.......It was this same exploitation that forced me to convert my tithe into our local parish welfare box monthly......

vooks:


My broda,
Go back to Eden. God has just created Adam. He gives him an assignment; naming all the animals. Imagine Adam rushing back to God in prayer and 21-day fasting for revelation of what names to give to animals! Further imagine Adam refusing to give names except God gives him names. This is exactly what happens when we delegate back to God what He delegated to us.

When God gave you a brain, you are supposed to use that. You can't possibly fail to use it and demand or expect God to come to your aid.

Having said that, I understand that God is perfect but human beings made in His image are imperfect. He may delegate some perfect responsibilities to imperfect beings and you can bet less than perfect results ensue. This is why no congregation or church is perfect. In the early church in Acts, there was some murmuring about mismanagement of funds. You may want to start your perfect one and a few years from now, somebody will be ranting here about how unreasonable you are.

May I ask what you intend to do about this?

I agree. God didn't fashion us as robots but as humans with the necessary faculties and talents to make our world a better place. Oftentimes I appear a nonconformist because I just don't get the mindless religious drift most people get into......It's insane.....Nigerians have turned their portion of responsibility to God almighty.......

What do I want to do? Let the parishes keep and account for 70% of whatever they generate. Let them take care of their leaders and their immediate families. That's all.

dearpreye:


I agree. God didn't fashion us as robots but as humans with the necessary faculties and talents to make our world a better place. Oftentimes I appear a nonconformist because I just don't get the mindless religious drift most people get into......It's insane.....Nigerians have turned their portion of responsibility to God almighty.......

What do I want to do? Let the parishes keep and account for 70% of whatever they generate. Let them take care of their leaders and their immediate families. That's all.

Does RCCG publish its annual accounts for al and sundry?
I mean at zonal,parish and churches/branches and of course national level. The reason I aks is because opaqueness goes hand in hand with poor stewardship

vooks:

Does RCCG publish its annual accounts for al and sundry?
I mean at zonal,parish and churches/branches and of course national level. The reason I aks is because opaqueness goes hand in hand with poor stewardship

As with the case with most Nigerian churches, that's not the case- it doesn't at all. ....or at least I'm not aware of....

We operate a religious system that almost totally outlaws decent disagreement with perceived authority but someone's got to do the talking at the higher levels someday....maybe I'll be that person.

There's a lot of secrecy surrounding the cash....

dearpreye:


As with the case with most Nigerian churches, that's not the case- it doesn't at all. ....or at least I'm not aware of....

We operate a religious system that almost totally outlaws decent disagreement with perceived authority but someone's got to do the talking at the higher levels someday....maybe I'll be that person.

Funny, start yours

There's a lot of secrecy surrounding the cash....

This is serious. So you don't know how much you raised like last year let alone it's 70%?
As a church, do you have an annual budget/goals for the year?

vooks:

Funny, start yours


This is serious. So you don't know how much you raised like last year let alone it's 70%?
As a church, do you have an annual budget/goals for the year?

No way...we don't have....and how can we have when the province has a firm and relentless grip over my parish? They won't even allow you manage your resources. You're just a vehicle for their wealth.

dearpreye:


No way...we don't have....and how can we have when the province has a firm and relentless grip over my parish? They won't even allow you manage your resources. You're just a vehicle for their wealth.

When you start blind without any target, is it not difficult or impossible to know when you achieve or even exceed some objectives?

dearpreye:


It's really absurd. Why are the local branches muscled out financially while the HQs feed fat on their resources?

The same issue of insulting stipends happens in the RCCG. My former pastor, having no stable job, was always embarrassingly broke......even when we tried to incorporate his basic needs into our parish accounts, the lazy province refused.

Those province guys are demigods.....you refuse to do their bidding and you're thrown into one obscure, small corner as a parish in one far away village.

Have you noticed that every corrup institution in Nigeria is organised around the same format, with the lowly rank and file sweating and giving returns to the top brass?
The police force,
The customs
The area boys
NURTW
PDP
APC
SDP

It is a culture of fraud and extortion.
The little guy always the bottom feeder and victim.

One idiot here says that "headquarters has expenses". Expenses like maintaining a fleet of private jets.

What about all the for- profit businesses that headquarters earns money from? Like vast real estate holdings, expensive private schools, banking, interests on the billions stashed in banks, interests or the usury charged on loans that give to finance businesses?
Where do the profits from these business Enterprises go? To the church coffers or to individual pockets?

Redeem generates enough profits from its many many businesses to give their individual members monthly allowances, talkless of taking from them.

dearpreye:


Why must thanksgiving be expressed in Naira? I've been bothered about it for many years.

Brother, I'm aware these folks even collect our house fellowship money- money meant to cater to the needs of the units....chai.....they even force the children's church to remit from their peanuts....

This na madness. They've tried to make me a minister but I no gree......I can't stand these looting..

House fellowship money, children's church money?
Wow!

Slavery by any other name is still slavery.

Adeboye is a slave master par excellence.

vooks:

When you start blind without any target, is it not difficult or impossible to know when you achieve or even exceed some objectives?

We are told our rewards are in Heaven; but the GOs and other top folks are already enjoying their rewards here.

plaetton:


House fellowship money, children's church money?
Wow!

Slavery by any other name is still slavery.

Adeboye is a slave master par excellence.

I don't know what to explain again. But this is religious slavery- one laden with guilt for doing no wrong.

dearpreye:


We are told our rewards are in Heaven; but the GOs and other top folks are already enjoying their rewards here.

I aksd what you are doing about it and you are yet to answer. Leaving RCCG, turning to atheism, satanism,starting your own or what?

vooks:

I aksd what you are doing about it and you are yet to answer. Leaving RCCG, turning to atheism, satanism,starting your own or what?

I've already answered that in an earlier post.

vooks:

I'm faring well in Jesus Christ. The relationship between h/o and branches is a thorny one. First, the H/o has overheads, is a cost center so to speak seeing it receives no offerings. So it's overheads must be spread out across all branches.

If it were down to me, I'd spread h/o's budget for the year together with a 10% contingency across all parishes/zones on the basis of their previous year's total revenues. They can keep the rest as soon as they meet their quota. The zones will then escalate their share to the individual branches.

But come to think of it, mega churches with hundreds of branches just attract needless nightmares. Why not commission ministers and release them? The size and numbers just pamper GO's ego.

Does it not strike you as funny that mainstream churches, Anglican, Presbyterian and Catholic have no such worries with branch management? There is something wrong with Pentecostalism, and this is imagining that you can suspend common sense and receive spiritual wisdom instead. We need to study how these 'unspiritual' institutions do their thing

If you were not a habitual half-thinker, you would have asked yourself some pertinent questions before rushing, as usual , into a babble that begs common sense.

You say headquarters has overheads? It's a cost center with no offerings?
Really?

First, what exactly are the overheads ? full time staff, electricity bills, promotional materials, travelling expenses for the top brass?
Anything else?
Like maintaining a fleet of jets( parking, insurance, parts, pilot salaries and aviation fuel)?

But what about the other half of the coin, such as headquarters income from their vast FOR-PROFIT businesses?

The have vast estates of real estate holdings that include rental and for sale properties.

They run very expensive private schools all over Nigeria.
They have shadow banking companies that finance short term businesses, contracts and LPOs at 40-50% interests.
They import cars with import waivers, and then sell the cars in the open market for huge profits, and of course, they charter their jets for profits.

Oh , I forgot to mention the billions they make from publishing books.

So, the bottom line is; headquarters makes enough profits from their business Enterprises to not only fund every church activity in every parish, but run social welfare programs for all its members nationwide.

Pentecostal Christianity is a profit oriented business, a religious fraud, period.


Let me wait for the knee jerk reaction.

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plaetton:


If you were not a habitual half-thinker, you would have asked yourself some pertinent questions before rushing, as usual , into a babble that begs common sense.

You say headquarters has overheads? It's a cost center with no offerings?
Really?

First, what exactly are the overheads ? full time staff, electricity bills, promotional materials, travelling expenses for the top brass?
Anything else?
Like maintaining a fleet of jets( parking, insurance, parts, pilot salaries and aviation fuel)?

But what about the other half of the coin, such as headquarters income from their vast FOR-PROFIT businesses?

The have vast estates of real estate holdings that include rental and for sale properties.

They run very expensive private schools all over Nigeria.
They have shadow banking companies that finance short term businesses, contracts and LPOs at 40-50% interests.
They import cars with import waivers, and then sell the cars in the open market for huge profits, and of course, they charter their jets for profits.

Oh , I forgot to mention the billions they make from publishing books.

So, the bottom line is; headquarters makes enough profits from their business Enterprises to not only fund every church activity in every parish, but run social welfare programs for all its members nationwide.

Pentecostal Christianity is a profit oriented business, a religious fraud, period.


Let me wait for the knee jerk reaction.

[/size]
You are the one reason I believe evolution forgot Negroes behind. I was talking generally as I'm not acquainted with RCCG balance sheet nor their income statement. Head branch/office overheads are the only cost that should be spread out to all churches.Works for branched companies, multinationals...Is this too much for your Negro neuron? Or have you never studied management?

Mighty glad you are trolling me, but I'm not sure I can pass on this high IQ mantle to such a braindead m0ron

Your anti theistic puny brains has NEVER discovered nor developed nothing, period

dearpreye:


I've already answered that in an earlier post.

No you haven't. EXACTLY what are you going to do or are you doing about it barring ranting here on NL?

vooks:

No you haven't. EXACTLY what are you going to do or are you doing about it barring ranting here on NL?

I'm sorry I thought I was engaging a liberal minded fellow. I've deliberately avoided some of your impudent comments towards me.....

That will be all.