[quote author=promise10 post=42883430][/quote]

Please i beg of you,don't try this ever again.

This thread is not about condemning any religion but its about having a healthy understanding of christ sacrifice.

I beg of you,don't let this repeat itself because everyone has the right to his beliefs.

Thanks.

Jesus died by OUR sin and not FOR our sin.

Thou shall not kill so says the Lord... (or is that commandment selective?)

Jesus death was a murderous crime commited by the Jewish leadership of His time. They said His blood (death) should be upon them and upon their generations. Hithler masacred 6 million Jews about 2,000 years later. They even did not have a country of their own until 1948 and even uptil now, they have not known peace. Do you still think Jesus death was proper with the gloomy but just fate of the Jews hitherto?

The parable of the husbandmen says it all. The owner of the vineyard is God. The servants sent severally to collect rent are the prophets, the vineyard is this earth and the wicked workers are the evil people on this earth. The beloved heir that was murdered by the wicked workers is non other than Jesus. Did that parable by Jesus vindicate the wicked workers, the Father of the Prince certainly would have sent his soldiers to kill all of them! God's angels are coming to do the same in the soon to commence apocalypse.

Forget about the lies you have been told in the past Toks, your spirit knows the thruth and you are a very intelligent man, your thread's topic says it all. Even in our traditional setting, if a village offend their god, is it the god that sacrifices or the people?

That sad day when He was murdered, the elements revolted, there was earthquake etc even the curtain protecting the ark of covenant was torn into two as a sign of disapproval. Had our Lord not pleaded with His Father to tamper justice with mercy on the cross under an unimaginable pain, the earth would have been destroyed by the angels.

However, His sacrifice to face death in the face of freedom if only He would have renounced the teachings He brought to liberate mankind from spiritual darkness and to deny His origin is the more reason why we should value His mission. The Love of God personified indeed showed love to the very last.

Follow Jesus teachings in spirit and every mystery will be clear irrespective of what the author of Leviticus etc might have written. Only the master is perfect, the servants are not so dont take their word as the absolute truth.

I just find it remarkable a man pulled from a vagina attached to an umbilical cord for sustenance is considered a God , and/or worthy of worship. We are talking about a man who ate food and used the bathroom.

A man like all men who does not know the day of judgment. A man who like Muslims prayed on his face to the creator.

I prefer to worship the creator not the creation.

Sadly enough you dont even know the creator

I wonder why people is quoting and believing in Koran that was writing by Black jesuit pope that doctored the bible to get back to Rome for sending him to exile in Saudi Arabia.

kevoh:

Point 1: Make we hear word! Load of bull crap! What suffering? All worst kind of criminals were crucified and suffered the same way during the Roman era. Crucifixion was performed to terrorize and discourage those witnessing the crufixion from perpetrating similar heinous crimes.

Point 2 : Calling this jew's death as some sort of sacrifice to the world is one of the greatest scam ever. 1st when a sacrifice is made, that thing is gone forever. When you sacrifice one of your kidney for your loved one, does it grow back into you after some years?
You don't just die and pop back into existence days after and call that sacrifice. Nope, we don't agree!

Point 3: And the must funny of all, god sacrificed himself to himself so we could circumvent a rule that god made himself and that god deliberately made us to never be able to meet?

Gbam! u just hit dnail on d head. xtianity n islam thrive on fear, hope & gullibility.

Toks2008:


In Surah 19, Maryam, verse 33, Jesus said shortly after his birth:

"So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"

The following Hadith about the day of judgment, collected by Al-Bukhari is further proof that Jesus died: "On the authority of Ibn Abbas: The Prophet of Allah said, '...Then I will say as the pious slave Jesus, son of Mary, said: 'And I was a witness over them while I When you caused me to die ("tawaffaytani" you were the watcher over them, and you are a witness to all things...

Since Muhammad (p.b.u.h.) referred to himself with the same phrase ("tawaffaytani" Jesus

nice try, but sorry sir, this claim has been sent to the wastebin long long ago, below is a comprehensive thread refuting this claim of yours http://nairaland.com/2236722/quran-says-jesus-died-explanation i hope after perusing that thread, you will agree with me that muslims dont believe in what you said.

Toks2008:
Many people all around the world are asking this question."why was Jesus crucified"? Was it really necessary? why did GOD have to go through this means to save the world when he has the power to just do it? In-fact is there any sense in Jesus been crucified?

The truth be told,i have pondered over this a trillion times and the more i think about the more confused i get but nevertheless i had taught about it deeply and arrived at this conclusion.

Every system has a rule and a laid down module and no matter how i want to see it,it is imperative to understand that Jehovah the creator of mankind chose to do things in his own way and maybe when i see him someday,i will ask why there must be shedding of blood before sins can be forgiven by him.

Thus, through the blood of animal sacrifice a man was made pure before God and reconciled to him. Says Moses in Leviticus: "For the life of the creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is blood that makes atonement for one’s life" (Leviticus 17:11).

Even the Quran agrees that even though blood of the animal sacrifice do not "reach God," (Al-Hajj Verse No:37) and also in Islam a sacrifice can expiate a pilgrim’s sin (Sura 5:95).

So Apparently Christ’s sacrifice on the cross means that animals do not have to be slaughtered for expiation. Christ’s own final and once-and-for-all sacrifice expiates for all sins—even the smallest or the largest. The ritual does not need to be repeated literally and endlessly by means of animals. Christ’s sacrifice "reaches" God.

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. (Hebrews 9:22).

GOD also made us understand that in the past,blood of animals were shed to atone for sins but this was getting so boring so he decided to make a sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all but it was impossible to use the blood of animals so he had to send Jesus as "a human lamb" because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins of the whole world.(Hebrews 10:4)

This was why when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me for you were not pleased with burnt offerings or other offerings for sin so Here I am--it is written about me in the scroll--I have come to do your will, O God.'"(Hebrews 10:5-

So he was sacrificed as a human lamb on a wooden cross just like a lamb is sacrificed on a wooden platform and his blood spilled to cleanse the world of sins once and for all thereby abolishing all the yearly animal sacrifices done in the past for the remission of sins.Hallelujah

No matter how film makers try to reflect the sufferings christ went through, they are not able to truly show the pains Jesus had to go through to save you and i from sins.His skin was ripped apart and one eye blinded by whip of thorns and shattered glass.Crown of thorns forced down his skull. Brutally crucified naked and formless on the cross. All these Christ endured to save you and i from sin and death.

Whether you are a Muslim,Atheist,unbeliever in any form, all GOD require of you is to believe that Jesus was slain to save you and accept him as your lord and savior.Simple and straight forward and i believe that when we get to paradise,we just might ask GOD why there must be a blood shed before sins can be forgiven but for now his name remains "THE UNQUESTIONABLE GOD"

As far as Islam is concerned, the condition for forgiveness of sins is your repentance. As for the slaughtering of animals then it's just one of many acts of worship that we do.

And it's not even a condition for salvation in Islam! and that's why anyone who doesn't have the means to purchase a ram is exempted just like someone who has no money for hajj.

I don't know how you people even reason sef, and that's if you ever do.

Mumu, many other criminals - before and after - that slowpoke -not christ- that have been crucified on the cross and subjected to equal and even greater torments. Because they didn't have noise makers like paul the criminal!!!

Toks2008:


In Surah 19, Maryam, verse 33, Jesus said shortly after his birth:

"So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"

The following Hadith about the day of judgment, collected by Al-Bukhari is further proof that Jesus died: "On the authority of Ibn Abbas: The Prophet of Allah said, '...Then I will say as the pious slave Jesus, son of Mary, said: 'And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them. When you caused me to die ("tawaffaytani" you were the watcher over them, and you are a witness to all things...

Since Muhammad (p.b.u.h.) referred to himself with the same phrase ("tawaffaytani" Jesus is said to have used in Surah 5, Al Ma'idah, verse 117 it becomes clear that the prophet of Islam, who died, confirms that Jesus also died!

A further confirmation is found in Surahs 10, Yunus, verse 46, 13, Al Ra'd, verse 40, and 40, Ghafir, verse 77 where basically the same term that is used for Jesus' last moments, "natawaffayannaka" meaning, "we indeed cause you to die" is applied to Muhammad (p.b.u.h.)

Jesus saying peace be upon me the day I was born , the day I shall die and the day I'll be resurrected, does not mean that he died and rise cos Yahya(john the Baptist) said same and nobody ever said he died and rise.
And mind u Islam never agreed that Jesus was even crucified let alone being dead or even rising.

ruffyola:
Jesus saying peace be upon me the day I was born , the day I shall die and the day I'll be resurrected, does not mean that he died and rise cos Yahya(john the Baptist) said same and nobody ever said he died and rise.
And mind u Islam never agreed that Jesus was even crucified let alone being dead or even rising.

Exactly. The word tawaffa in Arabic means to take a person's soul.

However, in the context of the Quran, it can also mean to 'cause to sleep'. like Allah described in Surah Zumar that "Allah 'ya-tawaffa' the souls at the time of their death and the one that does die during its sleep"
So He uses the same tawaffa for both the dead and sleeping.

And Allah expressly states in another part of the Quran that "and they didn't kill him nor did they crucify him rather it was mad ambiguous to them... " and that's why till today the Christians are in confusion and uncertainty regarding their religion.

Lalasticlala i guess you should consider this.

Toks2008:
Lalasticlala i guess you should consider this.

Sincerely speaking, this wont make fp, a thread that is from the religious forum doesnt make fp when it attacks other's faith, btw did you check that thread? if yes, what did you find?

lexiconkabir:
Sincerely speaking, this wont make fp, a thread that is from the religious forum doesnt make fp when it attacks other's faith, btw did you check that thread? if yes, what did you find?

Attack?

how?

Please explain why you think it is against another faith cos as the writer i dont think so but on the contrary i must say i respect the maturity of the discussants here which is why i believe lalasticlala should consider it for a larger view.

Toks2008:


Attack?

how?

Please explain why you think it is against another faith cos as the writer i dont think so but on the contrary i must say i respect the maturity of the discussants here which is why i believe lalasticlala should consider it for a larger view.

Well, maybe unknowningly, you attacked islam by trying to take some verses out of context, like the issue of animal sacrifice, although i see that my brother has explained it to you. talking of being civil, some of your brothers here havent been that civil, either ways this wont make fp, when next you want to share your thoughts about religion on NL, it should solely be a christian thing, islam or any other faith shouldnt be involved, my suggestion though.

lexiconkabir:
Well, maybe unknowningly, you attacked islam by trying to take some verses out of context, like the issue of animal sacrifice, although i see that my brother has explained it to you. talking of being civil, some of your brothers here havent been that civil, either ways this wont make fp, when next you want to share your thoughts about religion on NL, it should solely be a christian thing, islam or any other faith shouldnt be involved, my suggestion though.

Its quite unfortunate that in this 21st century we still allow religious sentiments to come in between doctrinal tolerance....

I guess that is the beauty of this thread...my muslim brothers came in and expressed their views making me to understand better the quoted reference which makes it more educating.

Too sad that in real intellectual social interactive fora,this is a topic that will gladly be up for discuss.

Anyways i have removed the quotations from the quran.

Lalasticlala has his discretionary powers tho.

Toks2008:


Its quite unfortunate that in this 21st century we still allow religious sentiments to come in between doctrinal tolerance....

I guess that is the beauty of this thread...my muslim brothers came in and expressed their views making me to understand better the quoted reference which makes it more educating.

Sincerely, we are just but human, and sentiments are bound to come in, maybe you've not been so active on the religion forum, your fellow xtians here always look for the slightest opportunity to vilify islam, when i say this Annunaki comes to mind, e.g you saw how promise10 insulted me, there is one other sadist true2god and one tribalist pneumaticos he sees nothing good in yoruba muslims, there is one agan gimakon(m) a.k.a ari3l(f), some even go as far as claiming to be atheists just to vilify islam, blackfire is one of them, so its nothing personal, if topics like yours that involved islam doesnt make fp.

lexiconkabir:
Sincerely, we are just but human, and sentiments are bound to come in, maybe you've not been so active on the religion forum, your fellow xtians here always look for the slightest opportunity to vilify islam, when i say this Annunaki comes to mind, e.g you saw how promise10 insulted me, there is one other sadist true2god and one tribalist pneumaticos he sees nothing good in yoruba muslims, there is one agan gimakon(m) a.k.a ari3l(f), some even go as far as claiming to be atheists just to vilify islam, blackfire is one of them, so its nothing personal, if topics like yours that involved islam doesnt make fp.

Shut up! What's your P? Don't fucking call my name for very stupíd talks here. Face who talks to you, you don't like how we sound and talk then talk to your ISIS thinking imams.

Who wants a religion where he / she would be victimized?

gimakon:


Shut up! What's your P? Don't fucking call my name for very stupíd talks here. Face who talks to you, you don't like how we sound and talk then talk to your ISIS thinking imams.

Who wants a religion where he / she would be victimized?

Toks2008, you see what i'm saying? they are never civil.

lexiconkabir:
Toks2008, you see what i'm saying? they are never civil.

You civil? Spare me that, tell that to Plappville

gimakon:


You civil? Spare me that, tell that to Plappville

why do you also use this moniker, ari3l, to deceive?

lexiconkabir:
why do you also use this moniker, ari3l, to deceive?

I am Not Ariel or whoever, I am Gimakon.
; D Pains you that She told you the truth last time.lol

gimakon:




I am Not Ariel or whoever, I am Gimakon.
; D Pains you that She told you the truth last time.lol

what truth? how did gimakon know? gimakon was not in the thread where ari3l was trolling, ari3l talked about me and plappville, you also talked about me and plappville, but ari3l and gimakon werent in that thread where we both were uncivil, how is that possible? its very ironical, dont you think?

lexiconkabir:
what truth? how did gimakon know? gimakon was not in the thread where ari3l was trolling, ari3l talked about me and plappville, you also talked about me and plappville, but ari3l and gimakon werent in that thread where we both were uncivil, how is that possible? its very ironical, dont you think?

So I don't read. To your blindness, I don't understand English? This one I type is what? Russian? I don't speak English yeh?

Keep posting very annoying and pointless threads. Seems you don't have anything doing

gimakon:


So I don't read. To your blindness, I don't understand English? This one I type is what? Russian? I don't speak English yeh?

Keep posting very annoying and pointless threads. Seems you don't have anything doing

sorry ehn, you've been busted.

Toks2008:


Tayo, i know where you are coming from.

A son can not wake up after many years to just accept that who he tot was his parents are not his so i understand and this is why i am very tactical and careful when i discuss this with the muslim faithfuls.

The Quran is known to be sent directly from GOD hence there is no aorta of mistake as believed by the muslim faithfuls and im not here to dispute that.But have you sat down to ask yourself these question?

Why is it that the Islamic teachings agree with Jesus being a sent by GOD(Allah),they agree that he performed miracles,they believe that infact he died,rose on the third day and he is coming back again BUT THAT HE WAS NOT CRUCIFIED?

How come it is that vital part that is important for the salvation of a soul that is disputed by islamic teachings? Could that be a deliberate attempt to rob people from getting saved and making heaven?I really don't know but those are vital questions you need to ask yourself.
I only pray that GOD will open the eyes of my lovely muslim brothers and sisters to see that indeed christ was actually crucified and believing in his death is the only sure way to Aljonah.

This is not what we should debate but i pray that i will not be "Adorun mo oto" meaning i will not be among those who will know the truth after death of which by then,it will be too late.

we believe in Jesus(pbuh) as a prophet sent by Allah (God) to mankind just as he sent Muhammad (pbuh) but didn't believe in his death cos he didn't die as Allah made him rise to heaven on d day they planned to crucify him... Check the Quran very well, Quran never said Jesus died or rose up after three days but confirmed he performed miracles and he is not only one to have done that, moses(Musa), Abraham (Ibrahim), Ishmael(Ismaeel) and Muhammad and all other prophets too (peace and blessings be upon all of them) also performed miracles and wonders

lexiconkabir:
sorry ehn, you've been busted.

Lol busted my foot.

I don't know ari3l. I only talk she sees me, and you say... Lol

lexiconkabir:
sorry ehn, you've been busted.

Say the crap you Wonna, your religion is super blood thirsty and thats why u get these attacks from people, not just me, say I'm not civil, it's your headache. I don't have apologies for any action you get from these fellows neither am I responsible for any of them.

And for the records I'm not ari3l, she's reading everything, just like I read earlier and kept quiet, she's doing the same.

lexiconkabir:
Sincerely, we are just but human, and sentiments are bound to come in, maybe you've not been so active on the religion forum, your fellow xtians here always look for the slightest opportunity to vilify islam, when i say this Annunaki comes to mind, e.g you saw how promise10 insulted me, there is one other sadist true2god and one tribalist pneumaticos he sees nothing good in yoruba muslims, there is one agan gimakon(m) a.k.a ari3l(f), some even go as far as claiming to be atheists just to vilify islam, blackfire is one of them, so its nothing personal, if topics like yours that involved islam doesnt make fp.

i can see your backward- reading -arabic- brain is in comatose.
I am an atheist like Ali sina, wafa sultan, and whole lots who expose the fraud Islam;mohamed and Allah.
Keep your frustration to yourself..

kevoh:

Point 1: Make we hear word! Load of bull crap! What suffering? All worst kind of criminals were crucified and suffered the same way during the Roman era. Crucifixion was performed to terrorize and discourage those witnessing the crufixion from perpetrating similar heinous crimes.

Point 2 : Calling this jew's death as some sort of sacrifice to the world is one of the greatest scam ever. 1st when a sacrifice is made, that thing is gone forever. When you sacrifice one of your kidney for your loved one, does it grow back into you after some years?
You don't just die and pop back into existence days after and call that sacrifice. Nope, we don't agree!

Point 3: And the must funny of all, god sacrificed himself to himself so we could circumvent a rule that god made himself and that god deliberately made us to never be able to meet?

That is why its damn foolishness and that is How God chose the foolishness of the cross to hide His glory... by the way does simply believing in His sacrifice make you puke and nuke ya self away to smiderings, nope!

gimakon:


Say the crap you Wonna, your religion is super blood thirsty and thats why u get these attacks from people, not just me, say I'm not civil, it's your headache. I don't have apologies for any action you get from these fellows neither am I responsible for any of them.

And for the records I'm not ari3l, she's reading everything, just like I read earlier and kept quiet, she's doing the same.

And its also funny that whenever ari3l talks in the programming section, what will end it is, "gimacon taught me how to do this" or "he taught me how to do that". hey you just said you dont know ari3l didnt you?

lexiconkabir:
And its also funny that whenever ari3l talks in the programming section, what will end it is, "gimacon taught me how to do this" or "he taught me how to do that". hey you just said you dont know ari3l didnt you?

See frustration Biko nu

I'm a programmer with several years of experience, I teach people and I post tutorials here on nairaland and people send me emails to get thier job done for them, na em you day police me.

You go soon die o

If na gimakon you day look, continue looking at me no go get job way you go day do, tomorrow when you see me in business section showing a new car, you go day beef me.

Your islam don do you, you no know left from right, continue to look gimakon, you and Ibrahim go soon day contest who old pass.

.

on:

See frustration Biko nu
I'm a programmer with several years of experience, I teach people and I post tutorials here on nairaland and people send me emails to get thier job done for them, na em you day police me.
You go soon die o
If na gimakon you day look, continue looking at me no go get job way you go day do, tomorrow when you see me in business section showing a new car, you go day beef me.
Your islam don do you, you no know left from right, continue to look gimakon, you and Ibrahim go soon day contest who old pass.

.

Lol! easy abeg

Lalasticlala i will be exceptionally glad if this can be made more public