9inches:


No sir! It's the reverse - Islam is not a peaceful ideology but some secular muslims chose to be peaceful; those are the hypocrites spoken of in the quran who are regarded same with the jews and christians.

Slikbae:
foolish Muslim. Didn't Mohammed behead over 700 people simply because they weren't Christians? didn't he spread Islam by killing and maiming people? Now you want to blame this barbaric act on Christianity. Shame on you!

Nurozigi:


Smiles!

You must be a Muslim to have quoted me in this manner.

Islam is not a peaceful ideology?

Pls I'll like to know why you saw no peaceful ideology in Islam.

Only with the mercy of Allah can the truth be seen, brother. I hope you meet that mercy before you leave the earth.

Pls I'll still like to know why you saw no peaceful ideology in Islam. Probably we can both learn new things. Peace.

AgentOfAllah:
Islam is an inherently violent religion. To claim that there are no instances where Mohammad ordered the killing of people for deriding him is simply false!
There are two prominent instances where this happened, his call to assassinate Asma bint Marwan and Abu Afak, both, for writing poems against his person and religion.

Cherry-picking verses in the Quran that cloak the violence of Islam does not change this.

tattedMONK:


Get your facts right Mr. do you mean believer/followers of Christ are different from Christians? he just quoted the bible and your reply is based on Muhammed and Jesus, aren't they the representative of Christians and Muslim? wasn't the bible revealed through Jesus to Christians? or are u saying Jesus doesn't follow the teachings of the bible?

Muslims would quote 100 verses from the bible which are contrary to what you're been taught in churches and the Christians would do the same. At the end of the day its down to what you want to believe and practice.

Religion generally brings confusion among people

9inches:


Don't misunderstand me, there are loads of goods in Islam, peacefulness inclusive. But the atom of violence and intolerance in it contaminates the good side. You know what, the world would probably not care about Islam if not for the fact that every terrorist finds a huge backbone in the quran and the hadiths. I have close muslim friends who I would not exchange for a lot of christians that I know; not even if I receive 10million naira in addition. They are that good. But then, I pity them because of the ideology they are trapped into. A good number of them would on occasions conceive the thought of apostatizing, but the thought of facing the consequences would always be a deterrent.

I don't want to say much now, I live in a 100 percent islamic country, understand arabic, and have studied the quran and some versions of the hadiths.

kolatcole:

if islam was truly an occultic group as u said,it wont b called 'islam' because d meaning of islam is peace.so if u ar ignorant and dnt av anything reasonable 2 contribute,u can jst scroll down on other tins dat might interest u

Nurozigi:



Allahu Akbar! I'm very happy about the fact that you have close peaceful Muslim friends. The same religion which serve as backbone to chaos as you claim was why you called them Muslims I hope.

You've studied the Quran and some versions of the hadith, probably the parts that have something to do with the backbone as you rightly claim was what you studied most, its going to help us in this discussion.

Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) fought battles too, I mean yes, he killed unbelievers. Pls rightly quote where it was said that the prophet(s.a.w) should kill in the holy Qur'an and explain what led to such incidents. probably because of blasphemy, or he was just commanded to go and kill for killing sake or for Islam or whatever.

If you succeed in that, then I'm ready to prove to you that Islam is a peaceful ideology. More reasons why your close Muslim friends are peaceful. peace.

chinchum:
That is why i advocate the govt. should build more science and tech schools, not more quaranic/islamic schools.

When people get so entrenched in religious doctrine, they typically turn to extremist when they have little or no western education.

Nurozigi:
Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) fought battles too, I mean yes, he killed unbelievers. Pls rightly quote where it was said that the prophet(s.a.w) should kill in the holy Qur'an and explain what led to such incidents. probably because of blasphemy, or he was just commanded to go and kill for killing sake or for Islam or whatever.

If you succeed in that, then I'm ready to prove to you that Islam is a peaceful ideology. More reasons why your close Muslim friends are peaceful. peace.

Lukay99:

it's always better for you to give references when making allegations against any religion (e.g verse number or what chapters numbers)

9inches:
According to several hadiths, Muhammad ordered a number of enemies executed "in the hours after Mecca's fall". One of those who was killed was Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf, because he had insulted Muhammad.

The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him. Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah

— Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:270, see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:369, 3:45:687, 4:52:271

It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said: Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger. Muhammad b. Maslama said: Messenger of Allah, do you wish that I should kill him? He said: Yes. He said: Permit me to talk (to him in the way I deem fit). He said: Talk (as you like).

— Sahih Muslim, 19:4436

source: wiki

Lukay99:

You know what? You're the one Cherry-picking verses you cannot even quote verses of the Quran that supports your so called believe of Islam it's always better for you to give references when making allegations against any religion (e.g verse number or what chapters numbers) let me give you an example on how to criticize a religion But those mine enemies, who would not that I should reign over them, bring them hither and slay them before me.’” Luke 19:27 that's according to the Bible itself so if you really want to criticize Islam do your homework and bring real proof not fabrications have a nice day

Lukay99:

You know what? You're the one Cherry-picking verses you cannot even quote verses of the Quran that supports your so called believe of Islam it's always better for you to give references when making allegations against any religion (e.g verse number or what chapters numbers) let me give you an example on how to criticize a religion But those mine enemies, who would not that I should reign over them, bring them hither and slay them before me.’” Luke 19:27 that's according to the Bible itself so if you really want to criticize Islam do your homework and bring real proof not fabrications have a nice day

Kassidy90:
U gave account of how prophet Muhammed (pbuh) ordered d killing of a blasphemer from one hadith that u saw online (smiles) just because it suit ur perspectives towards Islam u never bother to check the authenticity, now someone gave u a direct verse from Holy bible that support the killing of blasphemers not even any other religious book, here u are saying Jesus said ....I hate people giving Islam a bad name but with people like u that doesn't respect other people s believe trying to condemned them n claiming ur religion is the true n perfect one I don't see any peaceful coexistence in d nearest future, do your thing let me do my thing.

kolatcole:

if islam was truly an occultic group as u said,it wont b called 'islam' because d meaning of islam is peace.so if u ar ignorant and dnt av anything reasonable 2 contribute,u can jst scroll down on other tins dat might interest u

9inches:


You are right, I studied more of the non peaceful parts of islam. Reason being that any peaceful text does not require much studying. Peace is peace and no one would like it to change to opposite meaning. However, going into the dark side of the islamic religion, the intent would be to ascertain if the said verses are really what people portray it to be. Then you delve in further, start asking more questions, doing more researches, engaging in debates with scholars and muslims of different levels of faith, and so on.

At the end you discover that even islamic scholars of repute differ in their interpretations. As if that is not enough shock, you are then hit with the 'moderate' (un-Islamic) muslims' concept of "Islam is how you understand and interprete it", which would then raise the question 'Why is Abu Rumaysah or Anjem Choudary's understanding and interpretation condemned IF such concept should hold?

Many muslims like yourself will always say that Muhammad engaged in violence and slaughtered human beings in self defense. But the truth is mohammed and his men fought and killed anyone who opposed his views and his prophethood. Remember, the situation was not different during the time of Jesus. But muhammad being the egomaniac that he was, would not tolerate any living being who held a different belief.

Near the end of his life, Muhammad directed military campaigns for the mere purpose of spreading Islamic rule. He knew that some cities would resist and others would not. He left instructions to his people for dealing with each case:

"The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If you come to a township (which has surrendered without a formal war) and stay therein, you have a share (that will be in the form of an award) in (the properties obtained from) it. If a township disobeys Allah and His Messenger (and actually fights against the Muslims) one-fifth of the booty seized therefrom is for Allah and His Apostle and the rest is for you. (Sahih Muslim 4346)

As can be seen, those who were not at war with the Muslims are to be subjugated anyway, and their property seized. The only distinguishing factor is the extent of Muslim entitlement following the victory.

9inches:


Quoting from the Parable of the Ten Minas. You failed to establish any killing or order to kill, try again.

You are sentenced to hell only when you die. Again, you fell flat on your face in your effort to establish any order to kill by Jesus.

Muhammad himself, with his own mouth, ordered the killing of Abu Afak (The life of Mohammad, Ibn Ishaq, Page 675)

9inches:


It seems you have another derivation of the name 'Christian' than I have shown. The old testaments are contained in the bible and they are not direct teachings of Jesus as they were already in place centuries before Jesus came. He however came and redefined the laws which people have been given in the old testament through Moses. Jesus came to explain the commandments and live it, to set a standard. Jesus' interpretations by word and actions are the basis of Christianity. Same way Muhammad instituted the tenets of islamic faith, that makes him a standard of measuring the islamic faith.

(John 13:34-35) "A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.”

(Matthew 5:44) "You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."

You're dead wrong! At the end of the day its NOT down to what you want to believe and practice. Rather, it what the ideology preaches and portrays. Muhammad in this case is the founder of that ideology and he as well lived/portrayed the ideology, which any sincere muslim should fully submit and be committed to instead of living in denial under a secular state. The quran called such muslims hypocrites; Muhammad himself would slay them if he were to be alive now.

ogodomi:

Young man no place in d Quran says u should harm or kill for any reason

9inches:

Boy! Islam means 'submission', not peace.
Now, thank me. And do not misfire again.

focus7:
That is exactly what am saying, if by your explanation , killing and maiming the infidel, killing for a weak, helpless and a pathetic god (allah), breeding dangerous terrorists across the world is the definition of peace then judge by yourself if Islam is not a vampire occult.

kolatcole:

if u say islam means submission, then u tell me d language u got ur meaning

tintingz:
What about this verse from the bible where Jesus(AS) never abolish the laws before him.

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

All those killing order in the old testament was ordered by Jehova which you christian now called Jesus.

tintingz:
Of course parable will always involve. Lol.
So he(Jesus) of the bible cursed his enemies, condemned them to hell and you still support it? Is that not hypocrisy.

Well to some of your Christian doctrines believe hell means grave, so I'm sure he meants sending them to their grave.

And I thought you said Jesus in the bible fogave his enemies, those speech are death threatening and hate speech.

erm, NOT all hadiths are said to be authentic, some are weak while some are forgery.
Quoting from Ibn ishaq most of his poems, hadiths are forged

9inches:


Start from verse 1 to verse 48 to get the full understanding. He explained what the people were getting wrong about the laws (commandments).
Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law and to teach the people who have the law but do not have a good understanding of it.

I will urge you to read the New testament. It is not much, you will actually enjoy it while reading. It is quite engaging, especially conversations between Jesus and the Jews, Pharisees etc. You do not have to be a christian to read it and it won't make you become one by just reading it. Give it a try. If you have any confusion or question, you may ask.

Nurozigi:


I personally condemn the actions of those duos any Muslims like them. it's never Islamic!

Now I see reasons why the holy prophet(s.a.w) condemns hadith. I learnt something from you today. Even hadiths termed to be authentic are never authentic.

Allah's prophet(s.a.w) couldn't have said that. 'Muslim' was given birth to several years after the death of the holy prophet(s.a.w) so how can he compile about the prophet(s.a.w)? Its a similar case with the bible too where most of the apostles who wrote different chapters of the bible concerning jesus(a.s) never met Jesus(a.s) in person. Thanks for that eye opener.

I have a hadith which proves that the holy prophet(s.a.w) condemns hadith, but I won't put it here cos I disregard hadith now. I live by the holy Qur'an like the holy prophet(s.a w) lived. I'm very sorry I have to disregard the hadith you quoted even if its authentic as its not authentic to me.

But one good thing is that Allah(s.w.t) condemns hadith too:

"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed ? Those who received the scripture recognise that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall Not harbour any doubt.
The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." 6:114-115

I was a fan of hadith before even when I knew it was condemned by the holy prophet (s.a.w) but with this hadith you quoted, you just showed me the light. Thanks a million.

I'm still in for the discussion, probably I'll learn more helpful things about my deen. If you can quote any Qur'anic verse that asked we Muslims to kill and you can also explain why and how like you quoted the recent hadith, then I'll tell you why Islamic ideology is peace and not the other way round. Peace.

9inches:

He is not just man, He is divine as well. Only Jesus can save, remember. He has the authority to condemn as well. However, the part you are referring to is like a warning to the folks He was speaking to. What would befall them if they die in such state of evil they are living in. That same way, Christians preach heaven and as well hell. There won't be repentance if you do not let someone realise the consequences of what he or she is doing. But when such a sinner repents, God's is ever ready to forgive.

I do not know of any such doctrine. For the record, I am a catholic and there is no such belief. Heaven and hell are for those who have already left this world.

Yes He did (and still does) forgive, but He never shied away from condemning their evil ways.

Ibn Ishaq's account forged?
Waqidi’s account forged too?
What about Ibn Sa'd's version, forged as well? Amazing!

I laugh in latin, you are obviously a 'learner' in islam.

tintingz:
My question is, was Jesus the same as Jehova in Old testament bible?

Well since the bible said Jehova repented, I guess Jesus of the bible was the new Jehova.

tintingz:
Jesus(AS) was a warner also Muhammed(SA) but supporting Jesus death threatening and cursed speech shows how hypocrite you are.

Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Mathew 23:33
"You serpents, you generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell"?

Mathew 23:17
"You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred"?

Jesus in the bible at some point drove the market people in the temple out with anger, abeg where is the turn the other cheek?

I'm a Muslim and i believe and respect Christ Jesus(peace be upon him) and I will never insult him like you insulted the beloved Prophet Muhammed(peace be upon him).

Go and ask the Jehovah withness they will tell you hell is not a pit filled with fire but grave.

Yes and cursing them.

I dropped a wiki link where Ibn Ishaq hadiths were forged.

Like have said, there are authentic, weak and forgery hadiths or do you know better than the Muslims?

Lol a learner? it seems you were not around years back when am still very active in religion section

9inches:


Because I'm working, I will cite just a few texts to save time. Many like yourself have tried to dissociate Muhammad's life with the message of the quran (a.k.a follow my words but not my actions). Is that not hypocrisy at its best? Why should a great and influential figure like Muhammad not want his biography told? Does that not sound fishy to you, it would mean he wanted to hide that lifestyle of his.

Well, to break it to you, I am yet to see any imam or Islamic scholar who does not recognize the sura contained in the hadiths. In fact, Islamic caliphates take a lot from the hadiths to formulate their laws. So, you are waaaayy down the rung of the ladder to make such a choice as to disregard the hadiths.

(Surah al-Hashr ayah 7) "...And what the Messenger gives you, so take it, and what he prohibits you, so refrain from it. And be in awe of Allah. Surely Allah is stern of punishment."

How do you know what the prophet has ordered, in order to obey it? what he judged in disputes so that we can abide by it? what he has decided on matters, so that we can submit to it? what he has given, so that we can take it, or what he has prohibited, so we can abstain from it?

The answer is: read your hadiths. If you deny its validity then you may end up disobeying what the prophet has commanded, turning away from what he has judged, rejecting what he has decided, ignoring what he has given, and doing what he has prohibited.

And if you do these acts of disobedience, turning-away, rejecting, ignoring, and doing-the-prohibited then YOU HAVE DISOBEYED ALLAH. It's that simple. It is incumbent upon every Muslim to obey both the Quran and the Sunna.

In summary, you are not allowed to pick and choose in Islam. You have to believe whatever your imams/scholars tell you. You don't just believe and practice islam just the way you want it; in an ideal Islamic state/caliphate, everything is dictated just like it was from the time of Muhammad down to Abu Bakr and the rest. You would risk being tagged a hypocrite, and probably be killed if Muhammad were to be alive now.