lexiconkabir:


Nawa for you, you said most Muslims in the third world countries are sufis, and here you are bringing proof fron only Pakistan, does Pakistan make "most Muslims"? Hope you know Nigeria has more Muslims than Pakistan?

Like I said before, please go and read my post again, read it VERY WELL!!!!

Lagusta:


Bro go and read my post again please, did I mention all those stuff because of Saudi or because of Pakistan....

Abeg please I'm busy with patients....

This is what you said

"Saudi Arabia should really review their laws concerning women,"

Again you concluded with this

"Now, go and find out yourself whether Saudi muftis are hypocritical or not......"

So?

lexiconkabir:


This is what you said

"Saudi Arabia should really review their laws concerning women,"

Again you concluded with this

"Now, go and find out yourself whether Saudi muftis are hypocritical or not......"

So?

My dearest brother please what are you trying to prove

All those stuff I listed concerns only Pakistan!!! Pakistan!!!

Saudi is also harsh on women as my bro oyb pointed out, but it can never be as much as that of Pakistan....

Women have no place in government, they have little or no rights (for example, if the man divorces the woman, no one wants to know the woman's side of the story, which is very wrong) they have little or no dignity....

Bro, please wake up and don't allow religion cloud your judgement!!!!

Lagusta:


My dearest brother please what are you trying to prove

All those stuff I listed concerns only Pakistan!!! Pakistan!!!

I guess i bypassed, sorry about that.

[s]Saudi is also harsh on women as my bro oyb pointed out[/s], but it can never be as much as that of Pakistan....

.

Women have no place in government

Should they?

they have little or no rights (for example, if the man divorces the woman, no one wants to know the woman's side of the story, which is very wrong ) they have little or no dignity....

Proof for the emboldened

bro, please wake up and don't allow religion cloud your judgement!!!!

What the hell are you saying?

@lexiconkabir....

I believe women should have places in government, as special advisers or councillors.... because people have always been seeking council of the mothers of believers (the prophet's wives).... and if there was anything wrong with that,the companions would have frowned at it.....

Logic would even tell us that the best person to give counsel to a woman is surely another woman, you know women like themselves nah.....

And yep, since you want proof about women's rights in Saudi, hold on please. . ..

Lagusta:
@lexiconkabir....

I believe women should have places in government, as special advisers or councillors.... because people have always been seeking council of the mothers of believers (the prophet's wives).... and if there was anything wrong with that,the companions would have frowned at it.....

Allah said "Wa qarna fi buyootikunna...." (suratul Ahzab, Quran33:33), if you know that verse, then i don't think you should question further why women cant have a place in the government.

Logic would even tell us that the best person to give counsel to a woman is surely another woman, you know women like themselves nah.....

You don't apply logic in the things of deen, what you follow is QalAllah, Qalarrasool, Wa Qalassahaba(that is how they understood it, since they were the once that asked the prophet Questions directly)

And yep, since you want proof about women's rights in Saudi, hold on please. . ..

I'm particularly interested in the part where you claimed that women's side of story are not given audience in cases of divorce.

oyb:


i would prefer if you could provide actual empirical evidence of your claims about women. it is not enough to spout ignorantly about how saudi women are more educated than men.

"Yet women outnumber men in higher education: Some 59,948 women received postsecondary degrees in 2009 compared with 55,842 men, according to the Education Ministry."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-06-04/saudi-women-more-educated-than-men-are-wasted-resource

"In Saudi Arabia, women represent about 60% of all university graduates..... "
http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2011/10/18/higher-education-path-progress-saudi-women

if you can make a bizarre claim that women in Saudi Arabia are better off then women in the west, you'd best back it up.

As a Muslim, in what way are western women better than their saudi counterpart? I need not to back anything up, the women are employed, they own businesses just as the Qur'an commands them. Please I await your response!

there are a thousand and one sources i can provide that would show how repressed women are in Saudi Arabia, but you seem ike teh sort who would chalk it up to 'western propaganda'.

And I have million of sources of how women are treated like filth and sex symbols in the West, how they're beaten on a daily. Do you know how many girls loose their virginity either by rape and the rest?

so it would be better if you could provide concrete info.

http://fortune.com/2015/08/10/women-saudi-arabia/

In no part of the link you posted showed that women are oppressed, you claimed you want a caliphate, but do you really think a woman would be allowed to work there? Many women in saudi arabia have some restrictions, probably because if the mahram(this has helped many women against rapists, zealots) but that doesn't mean because they aren't fully in the workforce, then they're oppressed!

if you bother to read, you would find that the subject of an islamic state is a frequently contested subject by Islamic Scholars. Isis, Boko Haram etal are simply using this to push their own agenda.

All of them claim caliphate, there's meant to be only one caliph of Muslims and the last time this happened was in the 13th century(Banu Abbas). Are you now telling me since then till now, all the rulers are to be condemned because none of them actually created a caliphate? Ottoman Empire had Sokoto Caliphate which was a contemporary, in fact the caliphs of both Ottoman Empire and Sokoto Caliphate was hereditary, this is kingship, monarchy..... You need to stop deceiving yourself, only Allaah can bring back the Caliphate, when you hold on to things like this, it fosters extremism.

it is the same way you have our northern governors pushing for Sharia that they fail to practise. your analogy is flawed,

As in I don't grab what you're saying? What concerns northern government and saudi arabia. Why compare them?

and your statements that I should go and join Isis are are the sort of things one expects from Donald Trump.

Lol, of course, if you dearly need a Caliphate there's one in Iraaq/Syria. You're probably staying in Nigeria or some western countries, so if saudi isn't islamic despite their implementation of Tawheed, then you're in a great danger because the society you stay isn't islamic or close to islamic at all. This is a khariji mentality and that's what is fostering extremism, ISIS claimed nowhere is Islamic not even saudi and then they went ahead to kill Muslims of Iraaq and Syria to create their own bloody Caliphate. That's what you're calling to!

learn to accept dissenting opinions without going off on a holier than thou tangent. if you are this sensitive, i wonder ow you would have made it through the 07s,08s and 09s of nairaland [ the years of nairaland's holy wars]

Opinions which are dangerous need to be countered, opinions that directly or indirectly cause rebellion and discourse against rulers is to be avoided.

All you're saying here is that you are too weak/undisciplined to do the right thing without being forced. which sounds like a lot of Saudis who go buckwild once they are in the 'satanic' western nations.

Allaah said in the Quran that man was created weak, I'm not perfect so therefore I need to move to a nice society in order for me to avoid anything at all. You can fall, a man who's less than Shiatan in deception is coming soon ie Dajjal, and the Prophet Muhammad(saw) warned us to flee from him, never said you have faith, just run!

Mind you, there's nowhere I stated that western nations are satanic! Please o

lexiconkabir:


Allah said "Wa qarna fi buyootikunna...." (suratul Ahzab, Quran33:33), if you know that verse, then i don't think you should question further why women cant have a place in the government.



You don't apply logic in the things of deen, what you follow is QalAllah, Qalarrasool, Wa Qalassahaba(that is how they understood it, since they were the once that asked the prophet Questions directly)

This is the full verse and translation..... Q33:33
ﻭَﻗَﺮْﻥَ ﻓِﻲ ﺑُﻴُﻮﺗِﻜُﻦَّ ﻭَﻻَ ﺗَﺒَﺮَّﺟْﻦَ ﺗَﺒَﺮُّﺝَ اﻟْﺠَﺎﻫِﻠِﻴَّﺔِ اﻷُْﻭﻟَﻰٰ ۖ ﻭَﺃَﻗِﻤْﻦَ اﻟﺼَّﻼَﺓَ ﻭَﺁﺗِﻴﻦَ اﻟﺰَّﻛَﺎﺓَ ﻭَﺃَﻃِﻌْﻦَ اﻟﻠَّﻪَ ﻭَﺭَﺳُﻮﻟَﻪُ ۚ ﺇِﻧَّﻤَﺎ ﻳُﺮِﻳﺪُ اﻟﻠَّﻪُ ﻟِﻴُﺬْﻫِﺐَ ﻋَﻨْﻜُﻢُ اﻟﺮِّﺟْﺲَ ﺃَﻫْﻞَ اﻟْﺒَﻴْﺖِ ﻭَﻳُﻄَﻬِّﺮَﻛُﻢْ ﺗَﻄْﻬِﻴﺮًا

Waqarna fee buyootikunna wala tabarrajna tabarruja aljahiliyyati aloola waaqimna alssalata waateena alzzakata waatiAAna Allaha warasoolahu innama yureedu Allahu liyuthhiba AAankumu alrrijsa ahla albayti wayutahhirakum tatheeran

And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

#muslimpro muslimpro.com


This verse refers to only the wives of the prophet, they are very special people, the MOTHER OF BELIEVERS!!!

They are quite revered, they can't just be going about anyhow like some random lady with a tramp!!! Subhaanallah!!!

This verse does not say whatsoever that women can never participate in government as legislators or councillors or special advisers..... even if they cannot be leaders....

And concerning the logic post, habaa nah, did you really take that post seriously

Women's rights in Saudi Arabia are limited in comparison to many of its neighbors. The World Economic Forum 2013 Global Gender Gap Report ranked Saudi Arabia 127th out of 136 countries for gender parity. All women, regardless of age, are required to have a male guardian. Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world that prohibits women from driving. Saudi women constitute 13% of the country's native workforce as of 2015.

Quick facts: Gender Inequality Index, Value ...
However, women's status has changed in recent decades. Women were previously forbidden from voting or being elected to political office, but in 2011 King Abdullah declared that women would be able to vote and run in the 2015 local elections, as well as be appointed to the Consultative Assembly. More university graduates in Saudi Arabia are Saudi women than men, and female literacy is estimated to be 91% (though lower than male literacy) far higher than just 40 years ago. The average age at first marriage among Saudi females in the kingdom is 25 years.

Many conservative Saudi women do not support loosening traditional gender roles and restrictions, on the grounds that Saudi Arabia is the closest thing to an "ideal and pure Islamic nation," and under threat from "imported Western values".

Among the factors that define rights for women in Saudi are government laws, the Hanbali and Wahhabi interpretation of Sunni Islam, and traditional customs of the Arabian peninsula.

@lexiconkabir this is an excerpt from Wikipedia....

Alhamdulillah, women can now be voted into power, and like I said, as members of the consultative council....

Alhamdulillah the status of women have changed since the crowning of king abdullah....

I hope it gets better and better anyway......

I rest my case.....

August 2005 a court in the northern part of Saudi Arabia ordered the divorce of a 34-year-old mother of two (named Fatima Mansour) from her husband, Mansur, despite the fact that they were happily married and her father (now deceased) had approved the marriage. The divorce was initiated by her half-brother using his powers as her male guardian, who alleged that his half-sister's husband was from a tribe of a low status compared to the status of her tribe and that the husband had failed to disclose this when he first asked for Fatima’s hand. If sent back to her brother’s home, Fatima feared domestic violence. She spent four years in jail with her daughter before the Supreme Judicial Council overturned the decision.


@lexiconkabir, this is also from Wikipedia, the same article, and it showed how pathetic Saudi Arabia could be concerning women's rights, which is very horrible if I must say!!!

Like I said before, I rest my case on this matter.....

Lagusta:


This is the full verse and translation..... Q33:33
ﻭَﻗَﺮْﻥَ ﻓِﻲ ﺑُﻴُﻮﺗِﻜُﻦَّ ﻭَﻻَ ﺗَﺒَﺮَّﺟْﻦَ ﺗَﺒَﺮُّﺝَ اﻟْﺠَﺎﻫِﻠِﻴَّﺔِ اﻷُْﻭﻟَﻰٰ ۖ ﻭَﺃَﻗِﻤْﻦَ اﻟﺼَّﻼَﺓَ ﻭَﺁﺗِﻴﻦَ اﻟﺰَّﻛَﺎﺓَ ﻭَﺃَﻃِﻌْﻦَ اﻟﻠَّﻪَ ﻭَﺭَﺳُﻮﻟَﻪُ ۚ ﺇِﻧَّﻤَﺎ ﻳُﺮِﻳﺪُ اﻟﻠَّﻪُ ﻟِﻴُﺬْﻫِﺐَ ﻋَﻨْﻜُﻢُ اﻟﺮِّﺟْﺲَ ﺃَﻫْﻞَ اﻟْﺒَﻴْﺖِ ﻭَﻳُﻄَﻬِّﺮَﻛُﻢْ ﺗَﻄْﻬِﻴﺮًا

Waqarna fee buyootikunna wala tabarrajna tabarruja aljahiliyyati aloola waaqimna alssalata waateena alzzakata waatiAAna Allaha warasoolahu innama yureedu Allahu liyuthhiba AAankumu alrrijsa ahla albayti wayutahhirakum tatheeran

And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

#muslimpro muslimpro.com


This verse refers to only the wives of the prophet, they are very special people, the MOTHER OF BELIEVERS!!!

Ok, if they refer to only the wives of the prophet, then other muslimaat shoudnt pray, pay zakat, they should disobey Allah and his messenger?

And concerning the logic post, habaa nah, did you really take that post seriously

I am someone that jokes alot, but in matters of deen I'm always serious.

Lagusta:
August 2005 a court in the northern part of Saudi Arabia ordered the divorce of a 34-year-old mother of two (named Fatima Mansour) from her husband, Mansur, despite the fact that they were happily married and her father (now deceased) had approved the marriage. The divorce was initiated by her half-brother using his powers as her male guardian, who alleged that his half-sister's husband was from a tribe of a low status compared to the status of her tribe and that the husband had failed to disclose this when he first asked for Fatima’s hand. If sent back to her brother’s home, Fatima feared domestic violence. She spent four years in jail with her daughter before the Supreme Judicial Council overturned the decision.


@lexiconkabir, this is also from Wikipedia, the same article, and it showed how pathetic Saudi Arabia could be concerning women's rights, which is very horrible if I must say!!!

Like I said before, I rest my case on this matter.....

Well, to me thats wrong, once a wife is married to a husband, the rights of her guardian reduces over her, although we cant say, if its truly from from Wikipedia (you didnt post a link), doesnt mean everything there is a fact, who knows we might not have been given the full narration of the story as to why she was jailed, but if everything up there is 100% true and complete, then its wrong.

Seun:
As a muslim, would you prefer to live in an Islamic country governed by Islamic laws and principles, rather than a secular country which defends the rights of women, muslims, christians, atheists, lesbians, gays, scantily clad babes, drinkers, and all minorities, and treats them equally?

If your answer is 'yes,' what are some of the ways in which you feel that an Islamic country would be better for your life than a secular country?

I think that you should include a question as to how exposed the reponder is, to a Muslim country, or whether he/she has ever lived in one. Most have only heard about it from the western media (currently at war with anything Islam).

I for one, have visited many of the Gulf countries, and some in North Africa. Not all Muslim countries follow the shari'a, and their way of life is not significantly different from the secular countries....Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Morrocco and former Syria are examples... also I would imagine Far Eastern Muslim countries like Malaysia, Indonesia (I have not been there) etc to be the same. There are some cultural aspects that are better, such as higher morality, less exposure to perversions, better availability of mosques and Islamic schools, but the way of life of the majority of the people is mostly secular.

Shari'a compliant Muslim countries however, especially Saudi Arabia (but including Qatar, Kuwait etc), tend to be safer, though some would say they are too boring... no brothels, casinos, discos, bars etc. I really enjoyed my stay there. It is great for quiet time, introspection, you can expect honesty in most of your trade dealings (there is the ocassional sharp practice, but they are very wary of being caught). Food tends to be very cheap, as are practically all essentials. There is also safety, your kids can move around by themselves, negligible armed robbery or banditry. No one breaks into your house, even if you leave it open (you should see how gold shops display their wares openly like tomatoes).

All in all, I would love to stay there. My sticking point is that non citizens may not establish SMEs without a citizen as a partner, and I do not overly like partnerships. I hear that SA is opening up to foreign investment now, so I might still live there one day. And contrary to your implied belief, women do like it there also (apart from the inconvenience of not being able to drive in Saudi). My wife would prefer staying there any day (she doesnt care about the business aspect).

Farmerforlife:


I think that you should include a question as to how exposed the reponder is, to a Muslim country, or whether he/she has ever lived in one.

I for one, have visited many of the Gulf countries, and some in North Africa. Not all Muslim countries follow the shari'a, and their way of life is not significantly different from the secular countries....Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Morrocco and former Syria are examples... also I would imagine Far Eastern Muslim countries like Malaysia, Indonesia (I have not been there) etc to be the same. There are some cultural aspects that are better, such as higher morality, less exposure to perversions, better availability of mosques and Islamic schools, but the way of life of the majority of the people is mostly secular.

Shari'a compliant Muslim countries however, especially Saudi Arabia (but including Qatar, Kuwait etc), tend to be safer, though some would say they are too boring... no brothels, casinos, discos, bars etc. I really enjoyed my stay there. It is great for quiet time, introspection, you can expect honesty in most of your trade dealings (there is the ocassional sharp practice, but they are very wary of being caught). Food tends to be very cheap, as are practically all essentials. There is also safety, your kids can move around by themselves, negligible armed robbery or banditry. No one breaks into your house, even if you leave it open (you should see how gold shops display their wares openly like tomatoes).

All in all, I would love to stay there. My sticking point is that non citizens may not establish SMEs without a citizen as a partner, and I do not overly like partnerships. I hear that SA is opening up to foreign investment now, so I might still live there one day. And contrary to your implied belief, women do like it there also (apart from the inconvenience of not being able to drive in Saudi). My wife would prefer staying there any day (she doesnt care about the business aspect).

At last I found a sensible and enlightening response.

If many people learned to talk with knowledge and abstain from ranting ignorant verdicts, this thread wouldn't be more than a page!!!

Seun:
As a muslim, would you prefer to live in an Islamic country governed by Islamic laws and principles, rather than a secular country which defends the rights of women, muslims, christians, atheists, lesbians, gays, scantily clad babes, drinkers, and all minorities, and treats them equally?

If your answer is 'yes,' what are some of the ways in which you feel that an Islamic country would be better for your life than a secular country?

I live in an Islamic Country alhamdulliah. It is easier for me to practice the dean and gain knowledge. I can wear my abaya out without anyone making offensive remarks at me. I wear my hijab without worry that the country (like the Uk) would suddenly decide to ban the hijab. I don't have to worry about much about the type of food I eat ( ex pork) or even fitting in the society.The truth is secular countries don't treat people equally. If they did there won't always be debates as to whether mosques should be demolished, ppl should be allowed to fast or not (in some countries its a crime to fast as a Muslim) and of course banning the hijab.

Farmerforlife:


I think that you should include a question as to how exposed the reponder is, to a Muslim country, or whether he/she has ever lived in one. Most have only heard about it from the western media (currently at war with anything Islam).

I for one, have visited many of the Gulf countries, and some in North Africa. Not all Muslim countries follow the shari'a, and their way of life is not significantly different from the secular countries....Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Morrocco and former Syria are examples... also I would imagine Far Eastern Muslim countries like Malaysia, Indonesia (I have not been there) etc to be the same. There are some cultural aspects that are better, such as higher morality, less exposure to perversions, better availability of mosques and Islamic schools, but the way of life of the majority of the people is mostly secular.

Shari'a compliant Muslim countries however, especially Saudi Arabia (but including Qatar, Kuwait etc), tend to be safer, though some would say they are too boring... no brothels, casinos, discos, bars etc. I really enjoyed my stay there. It is great for quiet time, introspection, you can expect honesty in most of your trade dealings (there is the ocassional sharp practice, but they are very wary of being caught). Food tends to be very cheap, as are practically all essentials. There is also safety, your kids can move around by themselves, negligible armed robbery or banditry. No one breaks into your house, even if you leave it open (you should see how gold shops display their wares openly like tomatoes).

All in all, I would love to stay there. My sticking point is that non citizens may not establish SMEs without a citizen as a partner, and I do not overly like partnerships. I hear that SA is opening up to foreign investment now, so I might still live there one day. And contrary to your implied belief, women do like it there also (apart from the inconvenience of not being able to drive in Saudi). My wife would prefer staying there any day (she doesnt care about the business aspect).

why would a normal person be looking for a brothel...Sugar coating the truth as usual.

The truth is Syria is 90% arab and muslim and most of them would rather live with non muslim.

quickly:


why would a normal person be looking for a brothel...Sugar coating the truth as usual.

The truth is Syria is 90% arab and muslim and most of them would rather live with non muslim.

Both images are deceitful, the one showing a river of refugees was photoshopped to scare British voters into voting for the Brexit. The other one has been debunked severally. The zero refugee stats on Saudi Arabia are so, because Saudi Arabia is not a signatory to the UNHCR, therefore any persons fleeing the war in Syria or elsewhere are not counted as refugees there, but as guests... it will remain zero therefore. An article on huffington post explains this...

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8175924.html

In reality, the Saudis have been schooling Syrian kids, treating their sick and employing them, they do not put them in tents but allow them to join relatives (most Syrians have relatives already working in SA)...over 2.5million given residency rights (and almost half a million unregistered)

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/09/12/Saudi-official-we-received-2-5-mln-Syrians-since-conflict.html

to Europe's estimated 1million. Millions more are in Muslim countries, like Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan. Other Gulf countries are too tiny to absorb many Syrians (though all have taken in tens of thousands, again not referred to as refugees, but as guests) but are giving massive financial support to those in poorer ME countries.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

So saying that more refugees are going to European countries, some of which, like the UK have taken less than 5000, is a grand myth. There are some single Turkish camps that have more Syrian refugees than the EU (with the possible exception of Germany, which needs low wage workers and Greece, which is just a transit point).

The problem like I said, is that Western media (and subsequently, the media of developing countries which rely on Reuters for all their foreign content) have a self declared war on Islam (the bogeyman succeeding communism). And just like in the past when a 'commie' could do no good, today it is Muslims that can do no good.

Farmerforlife:


Both images are deceitful, the one showing a river of refugees was photoshopped to scare British voters into voting for the Brexit. The other one has been debunked severally. The zero refugee stats on Saudi Arabia are so, because Saudi Arabia is not a signatory to the UNHCR, therefore any persons fleeing the war in Syria or elsewhere are not counted as refugees there, but as guests... it will remain zero therefore. An article on huffington post explains this...

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8175924.html

In reality, the Saudis have been schooling Syrian kids, treating their sick and employing them, they do not put them in tents but allow them to join relatives (most Syrians have relatives already working in SA)...over 2.5million given residency rights (and almost half a million unregistered)

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/09/12/Saudi-official-we-received-2-5-mln-Syrians-since-conflict.html

to Europe's estimated 1million. Millions more are in Muslim countries, like Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan. Other Gulf countries are too tiny to absorb many Syrians (though all have taken in tens of thousands, again not referred to as refugees, but as guests) but are giving massive financial support to those in poorer ME countries.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

So saying that more refugees are going to European countries, some of which, like the UK have taken less than 5000, is a grand myth. There are some single Turkish camps that have more Syrian refugees than the EU (with the possible exception of Germany, which needs low wage workers and Greece, which is just a transit point).

The problem like I said, is that Western media (and subsequently, the media of developing countries which rely on Reuters for all their foreign content) have a self declared war on Islam (the bogeyman succeeding communism). And just like in the past when a 'commie' could do no good, today it is Muslims that can do no good.

Keep deceiving u r self that it was photoshopped.

This was a live event with evidence on you tube . I know the truth hurts.

Truth of the matter is the Brexit used this to the EU not able to secure their border.

I bet Nigeria will do the same it's just commonsense


Why r Pakistani running enmasse away from Pakistan to england even though Pakistan was created to be an Islamic country.

if u don't know the Muslims didn't want to leave in the same country with Hindus. Even thought they are related by blood

quickly:


[s]Keep deceiving u r self that it was photoshopped.

This was a live event with evidence on you tube . I know the truth hurts.

Truth of the matter is the Brexit used this to the EU not able to secure their border.

I bet Nigeria will do the same it's just commonsense
[/u]

Crap!!!

Why r Pakistani running enmasse away from Pakistan to england even though Pakistan was created to be an Islamic country.

if u don't know the Muslims didn't want to leave in the same country with Hindus. Even thought they are related by blood

The fact that you are raising another point means that you acknowledge the falsehood of your previous argument(s)!

quickly:


Keep deceiving u r self that it was photoshopped.

This was a live event with evidence on you tube . I know the truth hurts.

Truth of the matter is the Brexit used this to the EU not able to secure their border.

I bet Nigeria will do the same it's just commonsense


Why r Pakistani running enmasse away from Pakistan to england even though Pakistan was created to be an Islamic country.

if u don't know the Muslims didn't want to leave in the same country with Hindus. Even thought they are related by blood

There is no need to even argue the point, even using your own images, refugees to Muslim countries have been vastly more than to Europe, with Lebanon alone taking more than the whole of Europe.

It is not only Pakistanis that are going 'enmasse' to Europe and North America. Last I heard, Nigerian emigrants are also in the thousands (mostly from the southern, non Muslim areas). There are also thousands of Indians too, which is not a Muslim majority country. Poverty plays a great role in emigration, and if you come to the Sharia-run Gulf countries, you will see hundreds of thousands of Indians, Pakistanis, Malaysians, Phillippinos, Ethiopians and a lot of white etc. workers, many of whom are non Muslims. They obviously did not run away from Sharia, or why would they travel to the Gulf? So your argument of Pakistanis in the UK is not tenable.

The instability caused by the US 'war on terror' has also had a role to play in creating refugees in many Muslim countries where none existed before. Did you ever hear of Libyan, Syrian or Iraqi refugees before the Bush & co invasions? They were happy in their Muslim countries until Western freedom was brought to them.

I just wish to call to your attention that the question implies living in a Muslim society that is allowed to operate its laws, Saudi Arabia for example, as against one that is unstable or poor. Obviously, no Muslim will prefer Pakistan over the UK, but the deciding factor is not the Sharia or lack thereof, but the economic factors existing. Taking two countries of equal opportunity, I think that almost all conscious Muslims will pick a Muslim country.

yes na . u can't compare saud (peace) and us (crisis)

Yes absolutely. I will prefer to be governed by sharia law. Sharia law meaning,the law of the Almighty Allah (God)the Lord that knew yesterday, today, and tomorrow, the Lord that knows every human beings problems. Not man made laws, secular. Because secular means you should exclude God from your activities. That is what secular means..

Seun:
As a muslim, would you prefer to live in an Islamic country governed by Islamic laws and principles, rather than a secular country which defends the rights of women, muslims, christians, atheists, lesbians, gays, scantily clad babes, drinkers, and all minorities, and treats them equally?

If your answer is 'yes,' what are some of the ways in which you feel that an Islamic country would be better for your life than a secular country?

Seun:
As a muslim, would you prefer to live in an Islamic country governed by Islamic laws and principles, rather than a secular country which defends the rights of women, muslims, christians, atheists, lesbians, gays, scantily clad babes, drinkers, and all minorities, and treats them equally?

If your answer is 'yes,' what are some of the ways in which you feel that an Islamic country would be better for your life than a secular country?

the so called MUSLIM here won't want to live in a Muslim country because there is always war and the fear of war.

look at Syria,turkey, Iraq and rest [not to talk of Afghanistan]
are there all no fighting against themselves?

but instead those MUSLIM will be here scattering things and be making MOUTH.

I will Insha Allah die in a country like Saudi, UAE, Afghanistan, Qatar or Kuwait

I don't mind anything so long as I can worship ALLAH cos that's the purpose of my creation.

All these civilisation, westernization, human rights, freedom are nothing but TRASH! The worldly life is just a mere ILLUSION.

Let's strive hard and make JANNAH our final abode.

#HappyIftar my brothers and sisters!

Farmerforlife:


There is no need to even argue the point, even using your own images, refugees to Muslim countries have been vastly more than to Europe, with Lebanon alone taking more than the whole of Europe.

It is not only Pakistanis that are going 'enmasse' to Europe and North America. Last I heard, Nigerian emigrants are also in the thousands (mostly from the southern, non Muslim areas). There are also thousands of Indians too, which is not a Muslim majority country. Poverty plays a great role in emigration, and if you come to the Sharia-run Gulf countries, you will see hundreds of thousands of Indians, Pakistanis, Malaysians, Phillippinos, Ethiopians and a lot of white etc. workers, many of whom are non Muslims. They obviously did not run away from Sharia, or why would they travel to the Gulf? So your argument of Pakistanis in the UK is not tenable.

The instability caused by the US 'war on terror' has also had a role to play in creating refugees in many Muslim countries where none existed before. Did you ever hear of Libyan, Syrian or Iraqi refugees before the Bush & co invasions? They were happy in their Muslim countries until Western freedom was brought to them.

I just wish to call to your attention that the question implies living in a Muslim society that is allowed to operate its laws, Saudi Arabia for example, as against one that is unstable or poor. Obviously, no Muslim will prefer Pakistan over the UK, but the deciding factor is not the Sharia or lack thereof, but the economic factors existing. Taking two countries of equal opportunity, I think that almost all conscious Muslims will pick a Muslim country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvw-AnYBqNI

is this photoshopped.

What i am saying to u is this

the syrians would rather DIE by drowing or crossing the ocean than going to the nearest islamic country. The syrians did not want to live in a nearby islamic country but move to a land where secular law is the order of the day.

WHy?

u tell me

thats why i mentioned pakistain. India was one country before it got divided into (India and Pakistan) all because of religion. Go to UK highest amount of non EU immigrants are pakistan. Are some Gulf states not rich why move to a secular land when u can move to u nearby islamic country.

Dont Even mention nigerian because at least 70% go thru EU embassy and the other 30% might find other routes.


Other thing blaming the USs war on terror is an old school islamic propaganda. Was there any war on terror in Northern nigeria? before islamic violence became order of the day

Was there war on terror in borno state that made some muslims start killing innocent ppl all in the name of defending quran?

Long and short of the story is that the quran is the genesis of this problem because it advocates hate and bigtry and ordianry ppl are following this.

A 5th or 6th century philoisphy cannot leave in a 21st century.

African culture men and women r not segregated. Even though they say African culture is babaric just because u see a woman with nice body does not mean u must violate her.

Even in Africa we don't do that - self control

U cover a woman like a masquerade because some men dont that have self contro


Look at that girl Malala that was shot in the head because she was advocating girls go to school.


For a country to propser u must not mix relgion with governace

Religion must be a personal decision

100% yes,i will choose UAE

UAE and Qatar is my best choice, those countries are absolutely peaceful, they practice the doctrine of Islam according to the holy Qur'an and the hadiths.

Most people believe Arab countries are the only Islamic countries and the media has painted the "Islamic countries" as bad and worst countries.

And secondly, there is NO true Islamic country, we have different countries with different laws and culture.

Well as for me am OK with my Africa Islamic countries, Arabs are NOT the only Muslims on earth.

Seun:
Eitsei, Lagusta, Demmzy15, I'd be glad if you can answer this. Thanks.

Peace and Security
Quality of life
Women are treated with a high degree of respect.
Large Muslim population
Lots of halal places
Sense of Belonging
Less temptation
No free mixing
Immodest clothing
A better place to raise a family
And you can't just compare an Islamic county to a secular one and note there is difference between Islamic and Muslim countries.

Seun:
As a muslim, would you prefer to live in an Islamic country governed by Islamic laws and principles, rather than a secular country which defends the rights of women, muslims, christians, atheists, lesbians, gays, scantily clad babes, drinkers, and all minorities, and treats them equally?

If your answer is 'yes,' what are some of the ways in which you feel that an Islamic country would be better for your life than a secular country?

When Islam laid down laws to protect rights of women, women were being treated as properties I the Western World. Go read and confirm. Islam also guarantees rights of non Muslims, Christians, Hindus, atheist included.

cckris:
Sincere Nigerian Moslems should seek Visas to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, instead of travelling to the United States, the great Satan.

the question pretty straightforward would you "prefer" other reason make muslims travel to those countries.But other things equal islamic country would be the best

Seun:
As a muslim, would you prefer to live in an Islamic country governed by Islamic laws and principles, rather than a secular country which defends the rights of women, muslims, christians, atheists, lesbians, gays, scantily clad babes, drinkers, and all minorities, and treats them equally?

If your answer is 'yes,' what are some of the ways in which you feel that an Islamic country would be better for your life than a secular country?

let me ask u first, are u a muslim?
pls be informed there is no any other religion that protects the right of women and other religions like Islam does.

secondly, Islam helps other category of people you mentioned like the gays and the rest by ensuring they are prevented from engaging in such acts through stipper penalties as ordained by Allah.