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| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by Nobody: 11:14pm On Jul 31, 2016 |
Seun:trinity is in the bible why don't you pick up a bible and find out. |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by bolt000(m): 12:34am On Aug 01, 2016 |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by Jozzy4: 9:53am On Aug 02, 2016 |
solite3:
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| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by johnw74: 5:08am On Aug 13, 2016 |
[size=14pt]What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?[/size] Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?" Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible. The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity: Click for more |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by Nobody: 12:15pm On Aug 13, 2016 |
Jozzy4:you don't believe the bible. Jesus is everlasting father But not God the father But Jesus and the father are one. |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by dolphinheart(m): 10:13pm On Aug 13, 2016 |
1. Joh 14:28You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER than I am. THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN JESUS. 2. Joh 14:31But for the world to know that I love the Father, I am doing just as the Father has commanded me to do. Get up, let us go from here. THE FATHER COMMANDS JESUS 3. Ac 2:32, 33 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear Ac 7:55 But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus STANDING at God’s right hand, GOD RESURRECTED JESUS, JESUS IS AT GOD'S RIGHT HAND. 4. Joh 14:12Most truly I say to you, whoever exercises faith in me will also do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father. Joh 20:17Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” JESUS HAS A FATHER, THE FATHER OF JESUS IS OUR FATHER JESUS HAS A GOD , THE GOD OF JESUS IS OUR GOD. NO WONDER THE DISCIPLES COULD SAY 2Co 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort, 5. Joh 16:28I came as the Father’s representative and have come into the world. Now I am leaving the world and am going to the Father.”[/blue] Joh 3:16“ [color=blue]For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life Ro 8:32 Since he did not even spare his own Son but handed him over for us all, will he not also, along with him, kindly give us all other things? 1Jo 4:9, 10By this the love of God was revealed in our case, that God sent his only-begotten Son into the world so that we might gain life through him.10The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.[/blue] JESUS WAS SENT BY GOD, GOD DID NOT SEND HIMSELF! 6. 1Co 11:3But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, [color=blue]the head of the Christ is God. JESUS IS NOT HIS OWN HEAD! 7. Joh 13:3So Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands and that he came from God and was going to God, Heb 9:24For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before Godon our behalf. GOD DID NOT APPEAR BEFORE GOD! EVEN IN HEAVEN Re 3:2Become watchful, and strengthen the things remaining that were ready to die, for I have not found your works fully performed before my God Re 3:12“‘The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name. FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, AS THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN TRINITY TO EXPLAIN WHO IS THE "SOMEONE LIKE A SON OF MAN" AND WHO IS THE "ANCIENT OF DAYS" Da 7:13“I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to [color]the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One.[/color] Da 7:14And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed. WHO ALONE IS THE MOST HIGH GOD? Ps 83:18May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.[/blue] WHO IS JESUS IN RELATION TO THE MOST HIGH? Lu 1:32This one will be great and will be [color=blue]called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, HONEST PEOPLE BACK THEN KNOW THE TRUTH Mt 27:54But when the army officer and those with him keeping watch over Jesus saw the earthquake and the things happening, they grew very much afraid and said: “Certainly this was God’s Son.” Joh 1:49Na·thanʹa·el responded: “Rabbi, you are the Son of God, you are King of Israel.” EVEN THE DEMONS KNOW WHO JESUS IS Lu 8:28At the sight of Jesus, he cried out and fell down before him, and with a loud voice, he said: “What have I to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, do not torment me.” I will not serve a trinity , I will follow the scriptures: 1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 1Co 8:6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. IF JESUS IS NOT THE FATHER, THEN JESUS IS NOT OUR ONE GOD 1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, Mal 2:10“Do we not all have one father? Was it not one God who created us? So why do we deal treacherously with one another, profaning the covenant of our forefathers? JESUS HIMSELF SAID : Mt 23:9Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Mt 23:10Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. DO NOT LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO TELL YOU TRINITY IS IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDER STANDING, YET THEY ARE TRYING TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU! 2 Likes |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by johnw74: 12:36am On Aug 14, 2016 |
dolphinheart: DO NOT LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO TRY TO TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT GOD, WHEN THEY SAY THAT GOD AND THE WORD IS "A TWO HEADED GOD" 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by johnw74: 12:37am On Aug 14, 2016 |
 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" (Deut. 6:4) "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5) There is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4) And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17) "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19) Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30) "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9) "He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45) If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Rom. 8:9) "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20) And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35) [Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23) Click for more 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by johnw74: 12:57am On Aug 14, 2016 |
Because they are not spiritually discerned, it is the way of the cults to reduce biblical truth to make God comprehensible and understandable by their minds. To this end, they subject God's word to their own reasoning and end in error. 1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by dolphinheart(m): 1:28pm On Aug 14, 2016 |
dolphinheart: HOPE YOU NOTICED THEY CAN NEVER TOUCH OR EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES QUOTED ABOVE. 1. De 6:4“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah the above is what the is realities believe, they do not believe their god is made up of multiple persons. Isa 42:8 I am Jehovah. That is my name; I give my glory to no one else, Nor my praise to graven images. Mr 12:29Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, Mr 12:32 The scribe said to him: “Teacher, you spoke well, in line with truth, ‘He is One, and there is no other besides him’; *no other beside HIM!, and not no other beside them!(more than one person) 1Co 8:6 [color=blue]there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. Isa 45:21Make your report, present your case. Let them consult together in unity. Who foretold this long ago And declared it from times past? Is it not I, Jehovah? There is no other God but me; A righteous God and a Savior, there is none besides me. Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah”. Israel had just been liberated from Egypt, where Osiris, Isis, and Horus —one of a number of triads of gods—were worshipped. Therefore, Israel was commanded to worship just one God. How important was it for people to understand this command? 2. Isa 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. There is no God except me. I will strengthen you, although you did not know me 3. [b]1Co 8:4Now concerning the eating of food offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. UNDER THE SAME CONTEXT, IN THE SAME CHAPEL, BY THE SAME PERSON, WE ARE TOLD WHO THAT ONE GOD IS! READ BELOW: 1Co 8:4-6 Now concerning the eating of food offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. 1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 1Co 8:6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. JESUS IS NOT THE FATHER! 1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus Mt 23:9Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 4. Mt 3:16After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him. Mt 3:17Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” THE VOICE FROM HEAVEN CALLED JESUS HIS SON! THE VOICE FROM HEAVEN APPROVED JESUS, ALMIGHTY GOD DOES NOT NEED APPROVAL! Isa 11:1A twig will grow out of the stump of Jesʹse, And a sprout from his roots will bear fruit. sa 11:2 And the spirit of Jehovah will settle upon him, The spirit of wisdom and of understanding, The spirit of counsel and of mightiness, The spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah. Mr 1:10, 11And immediately on coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens being parted and, like a dove, the spirit coming down upon him. 11And a voice came out of the heavens: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.” Lu 4:18“ Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He SENT me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free, JESUS IS SENT BY JEHOVAH, JESUS IS NOT JEHOVAH! Joh 1:32John also bore witness, saying: “I viewed the spirit coming down as a dove out of heaven, and it remained upon him. isa 42:1 Look! My servant, whom I support! My chosen one, whom I have approved! I have put my spirit in him; He will bring justice to the nations. GOD DID NOT SAY HE PUT HIS SPIRIT IN HIMSELF Ac 10:38 about Jesus who was from Nazʹa·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil, because God was with him. 5. Mt 28:19Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, * pls ask those who believe in trinity: 1. how to they babtize in that name 2. what is that name 3. give a biblical and present example of such babtising. 6. Joh 10:30I and the Father are one.” JESUS DID NOT SAY "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE GOD". joh 10:29 What my Father HAS GIVEN ME is something greater than all other things, and no one can snatch them out of the hand of the Father. Joh 10:30I and the Father are one.” Joh 10:38But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may come to know and may continue knowing that the Father is in union with me and I am in union with the Father.” Joh 17:11“I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one JUST AS we are one. THE SAME ONENESS THAT APPLIES TO THE DISCIPLES APPLIES TO JESUS AND HIS FATHER TOO! Joh 17:21so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with US, so that the world may believe that you sent me 7. Joh 14:9Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’? IS JESUS THE FATHER? NOOOO! Joh 12:45 and whoever sees me sees also THE ONE who sent me. Joh 12:49For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; (compare: Ge 5:3Adam lived for 130 years and then became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and he named him Seth.) Heb 1:1Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. Heb 1:2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. Heb 1:3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.[/blue] THE SCRIPTURES HAS EXPLAINED WHO JESUS IS! UNDERSTAND WHAT JESUS SAID Joh 14:6-11Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. [color=blue]No one COME to the Father except through me. 7 If you men had known me, you would have known my Father also; from this moment on you know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Joh 14:9Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to you I do not speak of my own originality, but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works. Joh 14:11Believe me that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me; otherwise, believe because of the works themselves. read joh 1:4, Joh 17:3 ,Ro 6:23, Ac 4:1, Mt 11:27, Joh 1:18, Joh 5:36But I have the witness greater than that of John, for the very works that my Father assigned me to accomplish, these works that I am doing, bear witness that the Father sent me. 8. Ro 8:9,11 However, you are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in you. But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this person does not belong to him. 11If, now, the spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in you. THE HOLY SPIRIT BELONGS TO THE FATHER. 9.[b] Mt 1:20But after he had thought these things over, look! Jehovah’s angel appeared to him in a dream, saying: “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take your wife Mary home, for what has been conceived in her is by holy spirit. Lu 1:35 In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be [color=blue]called holy, GOD'S SON! 10 2 Likes |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by Barristter07: 3:16pm On Aug 14, 2016 |
dolphinheart  |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by Nobody: 4:42pm On Aug 14, 2016 |
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Denials of this verse if the bible had either contradicted themselves or created a new God for themselves. It clearly points the word as he who was present at the very beginning before anything was created and the essence of the word as God. The word was present with God. Not only that but see below John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. All things were made by him and without him ( apart from him) there was nothing made that was made. Meaning it will be a contradiction to say the word was created by himself since all things( no exclusion whatsoever of created things) came as a result of him SO, THE WORD IS NOT CREATED BUT JEHOVAH WITNESSES WOULD AVOID THIS BECAUSE IT EXPOSES THEM. The trinity is clearly taught in the bible See Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us [/b]make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and [b]now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. @ bold here, the one been sent is GOD but wait a minute he also says the Lord God as a different person and his Spirit humm as another distinct person together have sent him. Compare, Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. The Son of a man cannot be anything less than man himself. Following the law of 'like begat like' So also the Son of God himself is also God with no difference. If the Father is truly God then The Son is truly God Check this Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Here the Son is described as God's express or exact image ( without any difference possessing the exact original attributes and qualities of the father) Humm the Son must himself be God. Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Wonderful here the father is commanding his angels to worship the son. Hummmm Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Enough said already 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by toshino4real(m): 5:33pm On Aug 14, 2016 |
johnw74:"If Jesus was God, why did He say "The Father is greater than I" in John 14:28?" My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” ( Matthew 27:46). 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by johnw74: 11:47pm On Aug 14, 2016 |
toshino4real: I don't spend time trying to explain to a mostly unbelieving audience things like how the Word can be God and have a God, But I have posted articles on the matter which answer all your questions, and I will continue to |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by johnw74: 11:59pm On Aug 14, 2016 |
This picture is from jw org, it's how they see the Christian God of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, it's no wonder dolphinheart blasphemously said God and the Word is "a two headed god" 1 Like
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| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by johnw74: 12:38am On Aug 15, 2016 |
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| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by johnw74: 1:33am On Aug 15, 2016 |
dolphinheart: HOPE YOU NOTICED HOW THIS DELUDED ONE THINKS "THEY" SHOULD REPLY TO HIS POSTS AND HOW "THE WHOLE WORLD" IS HIS AUDIENCE dolphinheart: dolphinheart: dolphinheart:  |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by johnw74: 2:36am On Aug 15, 2016 |
[size=14pt]Does the Watchtower say the Bible teaches the Trinity?[/size] by Matt Slick The Watchtower organization claims to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave spoken of in Matthew 24:45. "We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the 'faithful and discreet slave' organization," (Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981.) (See the quote in context.) "All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the 'greatly diversified wisdom of God' can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave," (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8 This Watchtower organization, the faithful and discreet slave, claims to be the means by which God communicates His truth to us in this world. Therefore, by deduction, what the Watchtower says is truth. Alright, let's take a look at one quote from the Watchtower. "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude . . . They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago . . . " (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981, p. 29). (See the quote in context.) The Watchtower says that the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and the physical resurrection of Christ are all false doctrines. Yet, the Watchtower says that if you read the Bible by itself, you will end up believing these doctrines. In other words, if you read the Bible by itself, then you will become a Trinitarian--believe that Jesus is God and believe that Jesus rose from the dead physically. Why is that? Could it be because the Bible teaches these things? So I ask the Jehovah's Witnesses, what is it in the Bible that would lead someone to this conclusion? Again, what is in the Bible that reading it by itself would lead you to believe in the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and His physical resurrection? This quote from the Watchtower is proof that it is teaching contrary to the natural reading of the Bible and that it is controlling the beliefs of those who follow it. Click for more |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by Nobody: 7:53am On Aug 15, 2016 |
dolphinheart:you will continue in this delusion as long as you keep on denying Jesus Christ just like the Jews. no body can save you until you open your heart to Jesus. 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by dolphinheart(m): 3:48pm On Aug 15, 2016 |
They could not touch or respond to those scriptures quoted, they will give it all kind of names, but will not touch those scriptures, nor explain them Now let's look at some of the things the scriptures said about jesus. let's start with some prophecies about him 1. Jehovah(the Almighty god,the god of isreal) was talking to moses about a future event, please read below: De 18:18 I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. It is clear from this reading that the prophet raised up is not jehovah, as it is evident from the underlined part of that verse that jehovah is not talking about himself, so who is the prophet. The scripture helps us to know that the prophet is jesus, look at the scriptures below: Ex 34:28And he remained there with Jehovah 40 days and 40 nights. He ate no bread and drank no water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. Mt 4:1, 2Then Jesus was led by the spirit up into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. 2[u]After he had fasted for 40 days and 40 nights,[/u] he felt hungry. Nu 12:3Now the man Moses was by far the meekest of all the men on the face of the earth. Mt 11:29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for yourselves. Joh 5:46In fact, if you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. Jesus also comfirmed severally the other part of the verse, which tells us that jehovah will put his words in the prophets mouth and command him what to say, look at this verses below: Joh 17:8 because I have given them the sayings that you gave me, and they have accepted them and have certainly come to know that I came as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me. Joh 12:49For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me [color=red]has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. CONCLUSION: (A)Jesus is not jehovah, since jehovah is the Almighty god, then we know that jesus is not the Almighty god (B)The Almighty god cannot be commanded. 2. prophet isaiah made many prophesies from jehovah that where fulfilled by jesus, here is one of them: Isa 42:1Look! My SERVANT, whom I support! My chosen one, whom I have approved! I have put my spirit in him; He will bring justice to the nations. hope you noticed what jehovah called this one, he called him "my servant". Now for jesus to fulfill this prophecy, he will have to be (a)chosen by god,(b)approved (c)god will have to put his spirit in him,(d) will bring justice to the nations, did jesus fulfill such prophecy to indicate he was the one jehovah was refering to? Yes, look at the verses below: (a)chosen by God Lu 9:35Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.” *Jehovah said we must listen to the prophet too. (b) approved by God Mt 3:17Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” (c)God will have to put his spirit upon him [b]Isa 61:1 The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, Because Jehovah anointed me to declare GOOD NEWS to the meek. He sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And the wide opening of the eyes to the prisoners, Mt 3:16After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him. (d) Bring justice to the nation's Joh 5:22 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, Ac 17:31Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.” 2Co 5:10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of the Christ, so that each one may be repaid according to the things he has practiced while in the body, whether good or bad. To finally confirm that jesus is the servant God is refering to, let's look at what Matthew said about that prophecy Mt 12:15-18Having come to know this, Jesus departed from there. Many also followed him, and he cured them all,16but he sternly ordered them not to make him known,17 in order to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, who said:18“Look! My servant whom I chose, my beloved, whom I have approved! I will put my spirit upon him, and what justice is he will make clear to the nations. plus notice that this prophecies where made before jesus became flesh o! 3. let us look at one more prophecy made by Jehovah through isaiah Isa 52:13 Look! MY SERVANT will act with insight. He will be raised up high, He will be elevated and greatly exalted. Now was this prophecy about jesus?, did it have fulfillment in jesus? The answer is yes, look at the following scriptures. Ac 2:32, 33God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.33Therefore, [color=red]because he was exalted to the right hand of Godand received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear. * note jesus cannot be at God's right hand and still be the God he is at the right hand of! also jesus cannot be God who resurrected him, God did not resurrect himself. Php 2:9For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, look at this verses very well Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him. Eph 1:19and how surpassing the greatness of his power is toward us believers. It is according to the operation of the mightiness of his strength, Eph 1:20, 21 [color=red]which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come.[/b] with this prophecies and it's fulfillment , we now know the part jesus played in God's wonderful plan for us. more importantly , we now know who God is and who his servant. DO NOT LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO TRY TO MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND A DOCTRINE THEY THEMSELVE CLAIM YOU CANT UNDERSTAND! to be continued.......... 2 Likes |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by DoctorAlien(m): 4:54pm On Aug 15, 2016 |
Dolphinheart, The concept of trinity can be exemplified by water in its three states: solid ice, liquid water and gaseous water vapor. Yet, these three are the same. There are not three waters but one water in three different states. Though the word "Trinity" is not mentioned in the Bible, the concept of Trinity is a very biblical one. Consider this: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. " 1 Jn. 5:7. Of course, we know that Jesus Christ is the Word. Also, to suggest that Jesus Christ is not GOD will be contradicting the Scriptures. Consider this: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given...and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" Isa. 9:6. Here, Jesus is clearly called GOD. Ascribing to Jesus any status lower than this would be contrary to the Scriptures. Now we understand in part, but then we shall know fully. GOD bless you. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by Nobody: 6:24pm On Aug 15, 2016 |
dolphinheart:how will they touch on those scriptures when you are not sincere? U dolphinheart ran away from the other thread because you want to avoid the truth. If the truth is cutting your heart, check yourself. U are here ranting! 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by dolphinheart(m): 6:29pm On Aug 15, 2016 |
DoctorAlien:sir, I find this interesting, for your explanation does not support the concept of trinity at all, unless you have your own definition of trinity which might be different from others. water(H2O) cannot exist in the 3 states at once, unless you have 3 different body of water that exist in the liquid, solid and gaseous state. then if that is the case, you will have three different body of water, applying that to trinity means you have 3 gods and not one God. on the other hand, if you are using it to mean that God can exist in those different state(as water can do so), it ,means that the other two states will not exist whiLe one state is in existence. Water cannot be solid and gas at the same time. thirdly , the three states are not the same, as they eX hi bit different characteristics physically, chemically and anycally. fourth, if an external force acts upon H2O, it can change its state from liquid to solid,but the father cannot change to Jesus or can he? fifth, water is a compound made up of two elements, is God a compound made up of two elements? Though the word "Trinity" is not mentioned in the Bible, the concept of Trinity is a very biblical one. Consider this: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. " 1 Jn. 5:7. Of course, we know that Jesus Christ is the Word.sir, 1st , you did not tell us what trinity is, does trinity mean the three that bear witness in heaven? Secondly, I checked the verse you mentioned and found out that the words you quoted cannot be found their, I checked several other translations too and found out that most of them do not have such words(despite the fact that the authors believed in trinity) here is a list of those translations, you could check it out urself [b]New International Version For there are three that testify: New Living Translation So we have these three witnesses-- English Standard Version For there are three that testify: Berean Study Bible For there are three that testify: Berean Literal Bible For there are three bearing testimony: New American Standard Bible For there are three that testify: Holman Christian Standard Bible For there are three that testify: International Standard Version For there are three witnesses — NET Bible For there are three that testify, New Heart English Bible For there are three who testify: Aramaic Bible in Plain English And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth. GOD'S WORD® Translation There are three witnesses: New American Standard 1977 And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth. American Standard Version And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. Darby Bible Translation For they that bear witness are three: English Revised Version And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. Weymouth New Testament For there are three that give testimony-- the Spirit, the water, and the blood; World English Bible For there are three who testify:[/b] yes there are some few translations who added the words you quoted, but further study has shown that those words where not written by John but are spurious additions added later. Furthermore a study of what that verse is trying to say shows those words are not there. Also being one does not mean you are one God! Also, to suggest that Jesus Christ is not GOD will be contradicting the Scriptures. Consider this: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given...and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" Isa. 9:6. Here, Jesus is clearly called GOD. Ascribing to Jesus any status lower than this would be contrary to the Scriptures.1. hope you saw the part which says "shall be called" 2. I believe the God I'm referring to has been well layed out in the scriptures I quoted and the explanation I've given. The scriptures says there are many called gods, the God Im referring to is the almighty god!, jesus is not the almighty god ,nor is he equal to the Almighty God. trinity makes jesus and the father to be equal, but the scriptures teaches that jesus is subjected to the father! 2 Likes |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by dolphinheart(m): 6:38pm On Aug 15, 2016 |
solite3: sir, which thread are you referring to, or is it the thread where I mentioned you three times, told you I mentioned you and even went further to repostthe posts again for you to see, yet you did not respond to any of them, is it that thread you are talking about? imagine the excuse, my perceived insincerity prevents you from explainING your own view of certain scriptures! |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by Nobody: 7:03pm On Aug 15, 2016 |
Who is the mighty God? Jehovah is referred to as the mighty God Genesis 49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God[/b]of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel . Deuteronomy 7:21 Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a[b] mighty God [/b]and terrible. Deuteronomy 10:17 Fo[b]r the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, [/b]which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: Interesting Jehovah is Lord of lords. Psalms 50:1 [b]The mighty God, even the LORD, [/b]hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. Jehovah is The mighty God Psalms 132:2 How he sware unto the LORD, and vowed unto [b]the mighty God of Jacob; Psalms 132:5 Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God [/b]of Jacob. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, [b]The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Jeremiah 32:18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name, Habakkuk 1:12 Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and,[b] O mighty God, [/b]thou hast established them for correction. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by Nobody: 7:14pm On Aug 15, 2016 |
dolphinheart:when you ignore my points? Why were you dodging my questions? U don't expect me to keep on answering your irrational questions y u keep on denying the scriptures do you? 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by dolphinheart(m): 8:53pm On Aug 15, 2016 |
solite3: so now everyone can see who ran away! Secondly, I replied all your questions. You ask me to provide evidence on what you know you did not say, what kind of question is that? to show you what does not exist! I did not deny the scriptures. 2 Likes |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by johnw74: 11:45pm On Aug 15, 2016 |
[size=14pt]The Trinity[/size] by Matt Slick God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as the Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc. These are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God. (See also, "Another Look at the Trinity" Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self-aware and the third person of the Trinity. There is, though, an apparent separation of some functions among the members of the Godhead. For example, the Father chooses who will be saved (Eph. 1:4); the Son redeems them (Eph. 1:7); and the Holy Spirit seals them, (Eph. 1:13). Click for more 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by DoctorAlien(m): 11:51pm On Aug 15, 2016 |
Dolphinheart, The triple point of water is the temperature at which ice, liquid water and water vapor exist together in thermodynamic equilibrium. This temperature is 0.01 degrees Centigrade. Look this fact up on wikipedia. So, water can exist in three states at once, contrary to your assertion. I never really said that the triune GOD is totally described by the relationship between the three states of water. A physical material like water cannot fully describe Divine Mysteries. However, a glimpse of the triune GOD can be obtained from it. I quoted 1 Jn. 5:7 from the KJV, and all the words I wrote can be found there. The KJV is the only version that was translated from manuscripts that escaped corruption and adulteration. You can read more on that. If you say Jesus Christ is not GOD, why did Jesus reply Satan thus: "...It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy GOD" Matt.4:7 ? What do you have to say about this: "I and My Father are one" Jn. 10:30 ? 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by DoctorAlien(m): 12:16am On Aug 16, 2016 |
Also, consider this: Science tells us that light is constituted of three primary rays, or groups of wavelengths. Clearly distinct from each other, none of them without the others could be light. Each ray has its own separate function. The first originates, the second illuminates, and the third consummates. The first ray, often called invisible light, is neither seen nor felt. The second is both seen and felt. The third is not seen but is felt as heat. Like light, our “One God” is revealed in the three distinct persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one” (1 John 5:7 NKJV). 1 Like |
| Re: Debunking The Trinity Logic by DoctorAlien(m): 12:35am On Aug 16, 2016 |
Dolphinheart, Let us now consider the primary definitions of GOD and see if Jesus fits into all of them: 1. He is self-existent (John 1:1–4; 14:6); only God is self-existent (Psalm 90:2). 2. Jesus defines Himself as eternal. “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8 ). 3. He is, and has, eternal life (1 John 5:11, 12, 20). 4. He is all-powerful (Revelation 1:8 ). 5. He created all things (John 1:3). “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). “For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him” (Colossians 1:16 NKJV). 6. The Father even calls Jesus God. “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom” (Hebrews 1:8 ). 1 Like |
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