DoctorAlien:


Why didn't the Bible read thus: "Before Abraham was, I was" since this is the correct sentence by the rule of concord?

Sorry I can't help but laugh, before Abraham was , I was lol . bro, go check other translations and see how they worded the verse to fit the context which deals with age

john 8: 57 " The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, . and hast thou seen Abraham? "

Good you now know there is someone who is higher than Jesus . and is not included in the all things made through Jesus !

DoctorAlien:


And who ever said the Father was made or created? Are you now confused?

Stop dodging the question. Answer it.

Have answered it , Jesus said he is the beginning of the creations of God ( his Father ) Rev 3:14 .

CANTICLES:


Sorry I can't help but laugh, before Abraham was , I was lol . bro, go check other translations and see how they worded the verse to fit the context which deals with age

john 8: 57 " The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, . and hast thou seen Abraham? "

But you did not answer my question:

The correct sentence by concord in english is "Before Abraham, I was". Why did the Bible write "Before Abraham was, I am"?

CANTICLES:
Good you now know there is someone who is higher than Jesus . and is not included in the all things made through Jesus !




Have answered it , Jesus said he is the beginning of the creations of God ( his Father ) Rev 3:14 .

According to you, Jesus was created.

According to the Bible, there was nothing created that was not created by Jesus. (Jn. 1:3; Col. 1:16)

Now, did Jesus create Himself? Yes or No?

DoctorAlien:


But you did not answer my question:

The correct sentence by concord in english is "Before Abraham, I was". Why did the Bible write "Before Abraham was, I am"?

Hahahahaha is it the bible that write Before Abraham , I am or your translators ? Was the scripture written in english

Before it was before Abraham was , I was. Nor concord has changed it to Before Abraham , I was . does that make any sense to you ? Go back and reconstruct

CANTICLES:


Hahahahaha is it the bible that write Before Abraham , I am or your translators ? Was the scripture written in english

Before it was before Abraham was , I was. Nor concord has changed it to Before Abraham , I was . does that make any sense to you ? Go back and reconstruct

Go and check the Greek manuscripts, you will see that the words for "was" and "am" in that text are different.

Will you?

DoctorAlien:


According to you, Jesus was created.

No, according to the scriptures Rev 3:14 and Proverb 8:22

According to the Bible, there was nothing created that was not created by Jesus. (Jn. 1:3; Col. 1:16)

Now, did Jesus create Himself? Yes or No?

Jesus didnt create himself , The Father create Jesus ! Simple ( Rev 3:14, Prov 8:22) !

CANTICLES:


No, according to the scriptures Rev 3:14 and Proverb 8:22




Jesus didnt create himself , The Father create Jesus ! Simple ( Rev 3:14, Prov 8:22) !

Did the Bible lie in Jn. 1:3 and Col. 1:16 when it said that there was nothing created that was not created by Jesus?

DoctorAlien:


Go and check the Greek manuscripts, you will see that the words for "was" and "am" in that text are different.

Will you?

Now, I know where your problem lies and I will dance with you .it seems whenever anyone use the word " I am " no matter the context of discussion the person must be God Almighy. I personally have used I am countless times to identify myself in many instances , I am God Almighty ? Such mentality is wrong



. an angel identified himself as " I am " to Manoah and his wife , tell me is that Angel the almighty God ?

CANTICLES,

Let's assume Prov. 8:22 was referring to Jesus. 1 Cor. 1:30 also calls Jesus the wisdom of GOD. Now, was wisdom created? Yes or No?

DoctorAlien:


Did the Bible lie in Jn. 1:3 and Col. 1:16 when it said that there was nothing created that was not created by Jesus?

Jesus is not the Creator , he was doing the will of his Father! Those scriptures only emphasized that all things are made THROUGH him . see Hebrews 1:2. God made the world THROUGH his son . so the bible didn't lie , but the Father who created Jesus is clearly excluded from the all things made through Jesus

DoctorAlien:
CANTICLES,

Let's assume Prov. 8:22 was referring to Jesus. 1 Cor. 1:30 also calls Jesus the wisdom of GOD. Now, was wisdom created? Yes or No?

The wisdom in those context is Jesus Christ not literal wisdom , if Jesus is the literal wisdom of God, that means when Jesus died for three days , God has no wisdom anymore. That's nonsensical if that's what u think


Wisdom was personified as Jesus Christ, in this context Wisdom .. Jesus Christ was created ( prover 8:22-24)

[quote author=CANTICLES post=48584267]

His Father create him as the beginning of his creation ( Rev 3:14 )

are you saying God created Jesus without Christ.
John says there was nothing created that was created without Christ.
In other words the one who created all things did so through Christ and there was nothing he created without christ

Jesus didn't create his Father , did he ?

is the father among created things?

The Father is not among the all things made through Jesus , that one create Jesus

was there something the father made without Christ?

CANTICLES:


The wisdom in those context is Jesus Christ not literal wisdom , if Jesus is the literal wisdom of God, that means when Jesus died , he has no wisdom anymore. That's nonsensical if that's what u think


Wisdom was personified as Jesus Christ, in this context Wisdom .. Jesus Christ was created ( prover 8:22-24)

If it's not literal wisdom, what type of wisdom is it?

Quote 1 Cor. 1:30 on this thread.

The Bible clearly calls Jesus the wisdom of GOD.

Do you mean wisdom was created? Yes or No?

[quote author=solite3 post=48585434][/quote]

Man , re arrange ur post

You want to evade the questions?

DoctorAlien:


If it's not literal wisdom, what type of wisdom is it?

Quote 1 Cor. 1:30 on this thread.

The Bible clearly calls Jesus the wisdom of GOD.

Do you mean wisdom was created? Yes or No?

Baseless , u can as well tell me God brought forth literally with labor pains stated in Proverb 8:23,24 is literal as if God is a woman . or know this expression means he create

Wisdom personified , Jesus Christ was created ( Proverb 8:22)

My question is simple. Did God create something without Christ?

Canticles are you sleeping

solite3:
My question is simple. Did God create something without Christ?

3 All things were made through him ; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. 4 In him was life; and the life - John 1:3

Can u see the bold , when the bible said All things were made , its only a reference to those things made through he himself

CANTICLES:



3 All things were made through him ; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. 4 In him was life; and the life - John 1:3

Can u see the bold , when the bible said All things were made , its only a reference to those things made through he himself

you haven't answered my question, were there things that was not made through Christ?
Don't be evasive pls

solite3:
you haven't answered my question, were there things that was not made through Christ?
Don't be evasive pls

Yes, Christ himself ! He was made directly by his Father ( Rev 3:14)

DoctorAlien:


You agreed that Satan was tempting Jesus Christ, and Christ told him not to tempt the Lord his GOD. There is only one meaning to that: Jesus Christ is the LORD his GOD.

I think dolphinheart has a better position on this.
I remember correctly in one of the debates of Dr zakir Naik and pastor ruknudeen, zakir challenged him to drink poison and he replied do not tempt the lord. Does that Make the pastor the lord, the God. This isn't the only pastor or Christian I have seen made that statement.
Let's not twist scriptures to explain a point especially if the implications are severe.
Thank you

solite3:
[/quote]
pls tell, is the spirit of God the holy spirit.
Wow so tell me, the spirit of God is not the holy spirit.so God has two spirit abi! Prove it with scripture

this is a simple question I asked you, pls answer, you are drawing an opinion from my question, asking me to prove what I did not say!.

so you don't know where it is and yet you call yourself bible student.
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: [/b]and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
@ bold did you see it?

Now who is that Lord, jesus, the holy spirit or Jehovah?
The verse from another translation says :
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But The Spirit is THE LORD JEHOVAH, and wherever The Spirit of THE LORD JEHOVAH is, there is freedom.

are there other verses to surpport this? Yes
Isa 61:1 The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, Because Jehovah anointed me to declare good news to the meek. He sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And the wide opening of the eyes to the prisoners,
* hope you know who that verse was talking about

Ro 8:15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!”

I m free to respond the to whatever, especially as you always dodge my points because it exposes you.

you always use this as an excuse, but when I ask you to bring out the point so that we can see if you did direct the point to me and I did not respond, you will not do so!
The three post I talked about the last time are still pending, waiting for your reply.

I never said you do not have a right or freedom to respond to a post not directed to you, but if you do that, one should try to respond to the things in that post. I said: "you respond to a post directed at someone else, yet you could not talk about the scriptures quoted their!"

Here is the part with the scriptures you refused to respond toif you want to respond, you still can)

"Did Jesus resurrect himself ? no !
Ac 2:24 But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it.
Ac 3:15whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses.
Ro 4:24but also for our sake, to whom it will be counted, because we believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord up from the dead.
1Co 6:14 But God raised up the Lord and will also raise us up out of death through his power.
Col 2:12For you were buried with him in his baptism, and by your relationship with him you were also raised up together through your faith in the powerful work of God, who raised him up from the dead.
Heb 13:20 Now may the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep, our Lord Jesus, with the blood of an everlasting covenant,
so sir, Jesus did not raise himself up, neither did God raise himself up!"

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time[b] the Spirit of Christ [/b]which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
@ bold the spirit of Christ inspired the writers of the scripture.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by [b]the Holy Ghost. @ bold again the holy ghost inspired the writers of scripture
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God
dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
@ coloured do you see how Paul uses the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ interchangeably
Now tell dolphinheart how many spirit has a christian?
8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you , he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
@bold
Dolphinheart who is the spirit of him here?
@ coloured this spirit indwell believers right?
8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son [/b]into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Wonderful! Dolphinheart the spirit of the son in believers
Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Spirit of the father in believers?
DOLPHINHEART AND OTHER JWS ANSWER THIS QUESTION HOW MANY SPIRIT DWELL IN CHRISTIANS

I will explain to you, even though I know you will not understand.
1Pe 1:2 states : [b]according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, with sanctification by the spirit, for the purpose of being obedient and sprinkled with the blood of Jesus Christ: May undeserved kindness and peace be increased to you.
the question is , what is that spirit? it is the holy spirit. who has and can give that spirit? Jehovah, the God of jesus
2Th 2:13However, we are obligated always to thank God for you, brothers loved by Jehovah, because from the beginning God selected you for salvation by sanctifying you with his spirit and by your faith in the truth.(read also Joh 6:44, Ro 8:30, john 17:17, 1Co 6:11, 1Th 4:7)

Peter continued in verse 3: Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
versee 5 says : who are being safeguarded by God’s power through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last period of time.
hope you understand that the God Peter was talking about is the God of jesus Christ.
In verse 10, Peter now says : Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesiedabout the undeserved kindness meant for you made a diligent inquiry and a careful search.
do you now understand who gave that salvation, do you now know who has the power behind that salvation, Jehovah, the God of jesus Christ.
Note what verse 10 says, the prophet who prophesied...made a diligent and carefull search, this automatically tells you that Peter is referring to this prophets in verse 11.
Now , what prophecies did this prophet make concerning jesus?, I've posted some of them here on these thread(the ones made by isaiah). You can also look at the prophecies of Daniel concerning time and season in Da 9:24-27, Isa 53:5 also prophesied about jesus suffering.
verse 11 also talked about a spirit in those prophets, now the question is : what spirit is in those prophets?
The scriptures gives us answers:
Ps 143:10Teach me to do your will, For you are my God. Your spirit is good; May it lead me on level ground.
2Sa 23:2 The spirit of Jehovah spoke through me; His word was on my tongue.
Zec 7:12They made their heart like a diamond and would not obey the law and the words that Jehovah of armies sent by his spirit through the former prophets. So there came great indignation from Jehovah of armies.”
Ac 28:25So because they disagreed with one another, they began to leave, and Paul made this one comment: “The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers,
you can also read luke 1:57, Lu 2:25-35, acts1:16, Gen 41:16,25-39
Peter himself said in 2Pe 1:20, 21For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation.21For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit.

With all the verses above, we can conclude that the spirit in the prophet is God's holy spirit!
verse 11 says(brackets are mine) : 1Pe 1:11They( the prophets)kept on investigating(read Matthew 13:17) what particular time or what season the spirit within them(the holy spirit) was indicating concerning Christ as it testified beforehand about the sufferings meant for Christ and about the glory that would follow.

How many spirit has a christian?
only the holy spirit is being giving by God to Christians. This same spirit was given to jesus Christ which he passed on to his disciples.
Joh 14:26But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.
Lu 3:22 and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”
Lu 4:1 Then Jesus, full of holy spirit, turned away from the Jordan, and he was led about by the spirit in the wilderness
Joh 20:22After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit.
note again, the holy spirit comes from the father,Jehovah, the God of jesus to Christians through jesus Christ. Jesus too was given that spirit when he was on earth, jesus is not the holy spirit.

The spirit of him that raised up Christ from the death is the holy spirit, the father used the holy spirit to raise up Christ from the dead.
Ac 2:24But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it.[/color]
And as explained above, it's the holy spirit that dwells in Christians.

[b]Ga 4:6Now because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, and it cries out: “Abba, Father!”
does this verse indicate that Christians hAve or where given multiple spirits by God?, No!
We understand this verse when we look at how the holy spirit came to dwell with Christians.
Joh 14:26But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.
who sent the holy spirit ? The father, the god of jesus Christ.
In whose name did the father send the holy spirit? in the name of jesus!
unless you want to claim that God sent multiple spirits into our hearts, then the above is true!

Read this verses

Ro 5:5and the hope does not lead to disappointment; because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the holy spirit, which was given to us.
Ro 8:14 [color=redFor all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons.[/color]
Ro 8:15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!”
Ro 8:17If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together.
Christ is an heir of God, Christians are also heirs of God.
Christ is son of God, Christians will also be adopted as sons of God, becoming joint heirs with Christ.
No wonder the scriptures says they are brothers with jesus , but son of God, the almighty God does not have brothers

pls, when you reply this post, pls add your views and understanding of the scriptures you quoted and the scriptures I used in explaining.

solite3:
your excuse for denying the ompresence of Jesus is lame.
Tell me is God Almighty? If he is why is he not doing everything?

who will do you think is done? whose command do you think is carried out? whose power and authority do you think is used to carry out such commands?
answer : Jehovah, the almighty God, the God of jesus Christ, the father!
Eze 12:25‘“For I, Jehovah, will speak. Whatever word I speak will be done without any more delay. In your days, O rebellious house, I will say the word and carry it out,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.’”

Isa 55:11So my word that goes out of my mouth will be. It will not return to me without results, But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight, And it will have sure success in what I send it to do.

Joh 5:36But I have the witness greater than that of John, for the very works that my Father assigned me to accomplish, these works that I am doing, bear witness that the Father sent me.

DoctorAlien:


Who said so?

It is very clear that John was narrating in Jn. 5:18. John narrated that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because He made Himself equal with GOD.

JESUS MADE HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD!

I will reply with this statement already posted to you :

Same John narrated that Jesus breaks the Sabbath, so u believe that ? U don't
I will take u serious if u actually believe this too to be true! Of cos hypocrisy and doctrine will make u accept the second phrase and reject the first despite that both are coming from the same source and lack evidences

PlS sir, I'm on my knees begging you, do not cut part of my post off when quoting me, expecially the part that explanations is giving on what I said, if you cannot respond to those explanations, just leave it the way they are. If you continue to resort in cutting my explanations off, I'll respond by just posting the full text of my post back to you

this is my full post:
"no , Jesus is not omnipresent!, he is not present everywhere at the same time. and example is what happened to Stephen, he told us where Jesus is, despite Jesus seeing what is happening to Stephen.
If Jesus was everywhere, he want be going anywhere or coming from anywhere!"

DoctorAlien:


I'm still shocked.

"...and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen" Matt. 28:20. How could Jesus be with all of His people always even unto to the end of age if He was not omnipresent?

you don't have to be present to be with them!, Jesus can see you, protect you, guide you from where he is, at the right hand of God in heaven.!
when Stephen was about to be killed, where did he say he saw Jesus, everywhere? no!

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Rev. 3:20. How can Jesus stand at the door of every man's heart constantly knocking, if He is not omnipresent?

funny, so you think Jesus is literarily standing at the door of everyone's heart?
Your statement "stand at the door of every man's heart " should have helped you understand what Jesus said, unless you want to say your heart is equiped with a physical door Jesus can use to enter!
have you physically had a meal with Jesus!

solite3:
"in the beginning was the word" is very clear the word "was" denote presence not being created.

the word "was" denotes the action that happened in the beginning!

Are you saying the word was created before the beginning of creation? In which case it becomes a fallacy because the beginning of creation tells your the starting point of the manifestion of God's creativity before the beginning nothing was created.

never said so.
In the beginning was the word, not before the beginning was the word.

Check this out
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John is telling you that nothing I mean nothing at all was created without Christ.
Now tell me dolphinheart, if Christ was created, was he created without Christ

[b]Joh 1:3All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence

Col 1:18and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things;

Col 1:15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

Re 3:14“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:

Joh 6:56, 57Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him.57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

answer to your question: jesus was created, he was created by his God.
read proverbs 8 : 22-30.

solite3:
"in the beginning was the word" is very clear the word "was" denote presence not being created.

the word "was" denotes the action that happened in the beginning!

Are you saying the word was created before the beginning of creation? In which case it becomes a fallacy because the beginning of creation tells your the starting point of the manifestion of God's creativity before the beginning nothing was created.

never said so.
In the beginning was the word, not before the beginning was the word.

Check this out
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John is telling you that nothing I mean nothing at all was created without Christ.
Now tell me dolphinheart, if Christ was created, was he created without Christ

Joh 1:3All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence

Heb 1:2Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.

Col 1:18and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things;

Col 1:15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

Re 3:14“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:

Joh 6:56, 57Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him.57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

answer to your question: jesus was created, he was created by his God.
read proverbs 8 : 22-30.

johnw74:


lie lie dolphinheart,

the verse in question was from mark, you mistranslated that verse
the Greek for lord there is "kurios" and not "YHWH"

tell that to your predecessors who removed Gods name from the scriptures.
jesus said, it is written, are you implying that jesus quoted wrongly what is written?
If jesus quoted from what is written, can you provide us with the real text of what is written and where it is written?
I provided you with where it is written, yet you will not accept it.

Secondly why did you not answer :
1. Ps 110:1Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
is the above translation correct or wrong?

Father and Son in that verse are called "kurios"-God
but you jump all over the place to try and confuse, like a good little false jw does

thought kurios was Greek word for Lord, now it's God again? continue!
how did you know that the father and son are called kurios?
how did you differenciate who is who?

so do you think God is not supreme in authority?

almighty God is supreme in authority!

the word " kurios is not capitalized in either instance, the word translated as Lord is capitalized in both cases[/
Full capitalization for the Father showing two different persons
not two different god's though, as false jw believe.

when translating the word "kurios", you capitalized one fully, but do not capitalize the same word fully when it appeared again!
how did you know one kurios is for the father, hence full capitalization when transLating.

kjv:- Mr 12:36For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

please show where David made the above statement, it's in the scriptures!

johnw74:



Father and Son is God and eternal life

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1Jn_1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

1Jn_5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. [This is the true God, and eternal life.


That eternal life was with the Father, the eternal Word had no beginning

Father and Son-God is that eternal life

you refuse to answer the question

CANTICLES,

The Bible said that every thing was created through Christ. There was nothing that was created that was not created through Christ.

If Christ was created, according to you, through what was Christ created?