DoctorAlien:
I'm still shocked someone could say Jesus Christ was created. Something that can never be found anywhere in the Bible.

Revelation 3:14 , Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God! Also Proverb 8:22

DoctorAlien:


I'm sorry but it was John speaking in Jn. 5:18 and not religious leaders. Can't you see?

The same verse accuse Jesus of being a sinner by declaring he breaks the Sabbath, do you believe that too ?

[quote author=dolphinheart post=48562954]
pls tell, is the spirit of God the holy spirit.
Wow so tell me, the spirit of God is not the holy spirit.so God has two spirit abi! Prove it with scripture

always show where you get things from so that anyone interested could crosscheck, pls show the part that says "the Lord is that spirit".

so you don't know where it is and yet you call yourself bible student.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: [/b]and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
@ bold did you see it?

you respond to a post directed at someone else, yet you could not talk about the scriptures quoted their!

I m free to respond the to whatever, especially as you always dodge my points because it exposes you.
1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time[b] the Spirit of Christ [/b]which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
@ bold the spirit of Christ inspired the writers of the scripture.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by [b]the Holy Ghost. @ bold again the holy ghost inspired the writers of scripture


Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
@ coloured do you see how Paul uses the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ interchangeably
Now tell dolphinheart how many spirit has a christian?

8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
@bold
Dolphinheart who is the spirit of him here?
@ coloured this spirit indwell believers right?

8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son [/b]into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Wonderful! Dolphinheart the spirit of the son in believers
Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but [b]the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Spirit of the father in believers?
DOLPHINHEART AND OTHER JWS ANSWER THIS QUESTION HOW MANY SPIRIT DWELL IN CHRISTIANS

dolphinheart:


no , jesus is not omnipresent!, he is not present everywhere at the same time. and example is what happened to Stephen, he told us where jesus is, despite jesus seeing what is happening to Stephen.
If jesus was everywhere, he want be going anywhere or coming from anywhere!

your excuse for denying the ompresence of Jesus is lame.
Tell me is God Almighty? If he is why is he not doing everything?

dolphinheart:

the word " was " has already showed you what happened in the beginning

"in the beginning was the word" is very clear the word "was" denote presence not being created.

Are you saying the word was created before the beginning of creation? In which case it becomes a fallacy because the beginning of creation tells your the starting point of the manifestion of God's creativity before the beginning nothing was created.
Check this out
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John is telling you that nothing I mean nothing at all was created without Christ.
Now tell me dolphinheart, if Christ was created, was he created without Christ

dolphinheart:


John was speaking to jesus?

Who said so?

It is very clear that John was narrating in Jn. 5:18. John narrated that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because He made Himself equal with GOD.

JESUS MADE HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD!

dolphinheart:


no , jesus is not omnipresent!, he is not present everywhere at the same time.

I'm still shocked.

"...and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen" Matt. 28:20. How could Jesus be with all of His people always even unto to the end of age if He was not omnipresent?

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Rev. 3:20. How can Jesus stand at the door of every man's heart constantly knocking, if He is not omnipresent?

dolphinheart:


John was speaking to jesus?

Who said so?

It is very clear that John was narrating in Jn. 5:18. John narrated that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because He made Himself equal with GOD.

JESUS MADE HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD!

CANTICLES:


Revelation 3:14 , Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God! Also Proverb 8:22

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. " Jn. 1:3

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" Col. 1:16.

It is clear from the above verses that Jesus created every thing that was created. Now, if Jesus was created, did Jesus create Himself?

CANTICLES:


The same verse accuse Jesus of being a sinner by declaring he breaks the Sabbath, do you believe that too ?

Yes. According to Pharisaic standards, Jesus broke the Sabbath.

Can you still deny that John asserted that Jesus made Himself equal with GOD?

JESUS CALLED HIMSELF LORD OF SABBATH
Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Luke 6:5 And he said unto them, That[b] the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.[/b]
@ bold Lord means owner
But what about the old testament

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [/b]in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Leviticus 19:3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and [b]his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.
Jehovah is the owner of the sabbath

Leviticus 19:30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, [/b]and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 23:38 Beside [b]the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Leviticus 26:2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Isaiah 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, [/b]and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Ezekiel 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and [b]my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Ezekiel 20:16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.

Daniel 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Who is the great God in the new testament
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

[quote author=solite3 post=48477864]John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Denials of this verse if the bible had either contradicted themselves or created a new God for themselves.
It clearly points the word as he who was present at the very beginning before anything was created and the essence of the word as God.
The word was present with God.
Not only that but see below
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
All things were made by him and without him ( apart from him) there was nothing made that was made.
Meaning it will be a contradiction to say the word was created by himself since all things( no exclusion whatsoever of created things) came as a result of him
SO, THE WORD IS NOT CREATED

BUT JEHOVAH WITNESSES WOULD AVOID THIS BECAUSE IT EXPOSES THEM.

The trinity is clearly taught in the bible
See
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us [/b]make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and [b]now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
@ bold here, the one been sent is GOD but wait a minute he also says the Lord God as a different person and his Spirit humm as another distinct person together have sent him.
Compare,
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The Son of a man cannot be anything less than man himself. Following the law of 'like begat like'
So also the Son of God himself is also God with no difference.
If the Father is truly God then
The Son is truly God
Check this
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Here the Son is described as God's express or exact image ( without any difference possessing the exact original attributes and qualities of the father)
Humm the Son must himself be God.
Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Wonderful here the father is commanding his angels to worship the son.
Hummmm
Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Enough said already

[quote author=solite3 post=48509706]Who is the mighty God?
Jehovah is referred to as the mighty God
Genesis 49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God[/b]of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel
.
Deuteronomy 7:21 Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a[b] mighty God [/b]and terrible.

Deuteronomy 10:17 Fo[b]r the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, [/b]which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Interesting Jehovah is Lord of lords.

Psalms 50:1 [b]The mighty God, even the LORD, [/b]hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Jehovah is The mighty God

Psalms 132:2 How he sware unto the LORD, and vowed unto [b]the mighty God of Jacob;

Psalms 132:5 Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God [/b]of Jacob.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, [b]The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jeremiah 32:18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,

Habakkuk 1:12 Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and,[b] O mighty God, [/b]thou hast established them for correction.

solite3:
Daniel 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Who is the great God in the new testament
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

GOD bless you.

dolphinheart:

1.Ps 110:1Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
is the above translation correct or wrong?

2.you could not state what the temptation was about, I stated it.

3. pls tell, why is one "kurios" capitalised and the second kurios is not capitalised, secondly, are the two kurios referring to same person?

4. where did you get it that kurios means supreme in authority,God

5. Jesus said " it is written", where was it written? De 6:16
what does that verse say?
“You must not put Jehovah your God to the test the way you put him to the test at Masʹsah.

lie lie dolphinheart,

the verse in question was from mark, you mistranslated that verse
the Greek for lord there is "kurios" and not "YHWH"

Father and Son in that verse are called "kurios"-God
but you jump all over the place to try and confuse, like a good little false jw does



so do you think God is not supreme in authority?




the word "kurios is not capitalized in either instance, the word translated as Lord is capitalized in both cases
Full capitalization for the Father showing two different persons
not two different god's though, as false jw believe.

dolphinheart:

now pls kindly tell:
"And we know that the (1)Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know (2)him that is true, and we are in (3)Him that is true, even in (4)his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life." 1 Jn. 5:20.

1.who is the "son of God" in (1)coloured blue above
2.who is "him" in (2)coloured red above
3. who is the "him" in (3)coloured green above
4.who is the "his" in (4)coloured yellow above

note , Jesus does not have a son called Jesus.
Jesus himself had told told us who the only true God is!

Father and Son is God and eternal life

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1Jn_1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

1Jn_5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. [This is the true God, and eternal life.


That eternal life was with the Father, the eternal Word had no beginning

Father and Son-God is that eternal life

dolphinheart:

"in the beginning was the the word", God does not have a beginning.
"and the word was with God" who is the God the word was with, is the word that same person?

The verse does not say the Word had a beginning, you are again adding to what the Bible says

the beginning spoken of is the beginning of creation of the heavens and the earth
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

IN the beginning was the Word, John 1:1




Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness....

and the Word was with GOD, John 1:1




and the Word was GOD. John 1:1, as so many verses show

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Mal_2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him (the Word-Jesus Christ); and without him was not any thing made that was made.




Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

It's God that lives in men.

johnw74:


The verse does not say the Word had a beginning you are again adding to what Bible verses say

the beginning spoken of is the beginning of creation of the heavens and the earth
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

IN the beginning was the Word, John 1:1

Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness....

and the Word was with GOD, John 1:1


and the Word was GOD. John 1:1, as so many verses show.

GOD bless you.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Mal_2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him (the Word-Jesus Christ); and without him was not any thing made that was made.




Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

It's God that lives in men.

DoctorAlien:


Yes. According to Pharisaic standards, Jesus broke the Sabbath.

Lolzzz, see response , the same pharisaic standard accuse Jesus of making himself equal with God.

Can you still deny that John asserted that Jesus made Himself equal with GOD?

The same John documents it that the Jews want to kill Jesus because Jesus broke the Sabbath.

So your hypocrisy stinks, for u to accept one accusation as pharisaic and the other as genuine


Both claims are False ( John 14:28) , can you show me one single place where Jesus claim to be equal to God ?

DoctorAlien:


Who said so?

It is very clear that John was narrating in Jn. 5:18. John narrated that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because He made Himself equal with GOD.

JESUS MADE HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD!

Same John narrated that Jesus breaks the Sabbath, so u believe that ? U don't


I will take u serious if u actually believe this too to be true! Of cos hypocrisy and doctrine will make u accept the second phrase and reject the first despite that both are coming from the same source and lack evidences

DoctorAlien:


"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. " Jn. 1:3

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" Col. 1:16.

It is clear from the above verses that Jesus created every thing that was created. Now, if Jesus was created, did Jesus create Himself?

The last question is soo funny, it make me realize u forget that there is someone Greater than Jesus , His God and Father !!!


Bro, if u had read Rev 3:14 and Proverb 8:22 ..you will know He was Created by his God and Father !

CANTICLES:


Lolzzz, see response , the same pharisaic standard accuse Jesus of making himself equal with God.



The same John documents it that the Jews want to kill Jesus because Jesus broke the Sabbath.

So your hypocrisy stinks, for u to accept one accusation as pharisaic and the other as genuine


Both claims are False ( John 14:28) , can you show me one single place where Jesus claim to be equal to God ?

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Then took they up stones to cast at him..." Jn. 8:58-59

Why did they take up stones to cast at Him?

CANTICLES:


The last question is soo funny, it make me realize u forget that there is someone Greater than Jesus , His God and Father !!!


Bro, if u had read Rev 3:14 and Proverb 8:22 ..you will know He was Created by his God and Father !

What is funny about the question?

The Bible unequivocally states in Jn. 1:3 and Col. 1:16 that there was nothing created that was not created by Jesus. Now, if Jesus was a created being, did He created Himself?

DoctorAlien:


What is funny about the question?

The Bible unequivocally states in Jn. 1:3 and Col. 1:16 that there was nothing created that was not created by Jesus. Now, if Jesus was a created being, did He created Himself?

' the beiginning of the creation of God " Revelation 3:14 , the God there is a reference to the Father, the God of Jesus Christ . that's his Creator!

DoctorAlien:


"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Then took they up stones to cast at him..." Jn. 8:58-59

Why did they take up stones to cast at Him?

Oga, who capitalise I AM ? Your translators

Stop deceiving yourself , what Jesus is saying is before Abraham exist , he has been ! This infuriated the Jews cos they said how old is he to have exist before Abraham . its a matter of age and they call it blasphemy that someone of his age could claim to have exist before Abraham

CANTICLES:


' the beiginning of the creation of God " Revelation 3:14 , the God there is a reference to the Father, the God of Jesus Christ . that's his Creator!

Address the question at hand: did Jesus create Himself?

If no, did the Bible lie that nothing was created that was not created by Jesus, since you said Jesus was a created being?

DoctorAlien:


"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Then took they up stones to cast at him..." Jn. 8:58-59

Why did they take up stones to cast at Him?

Oga, who capitalise I AM ? Your translators

Stop deceiving yourself , what Jesus is saying is before Abraham exist , he has been ! This infuriated the Jews cos they said how old is he to have exist before Abraham . its a matter of age and they call it blasphemy that someone of his age could claim to have exist before Abraham

DoctorAlien:


Address the question at hand: did Jesus create Himself?

His Father create him as the beginning of his creation ( Rev 3:14 )

If no, did the Bible lie that nothing was created that was not created by Jesus, since you said Jesus was a created being?

Jesus didn't create his Father , did he ?

The Father is not among the all things made through Jesus , that one create Jesus

CANTICLES:


Oga, who capitalise I AM ? Your translators

Stop deceiving yourself , what Jesus is saying is before Abraham exist , he has been ! This infuriated the Jews cos they said how old is he to have exist before Abraham . its a matter of age and they call it blasphemy that someone of his age could claim to have exist before Abraham

Why didn't the Bible read thus: "Before Abraham was, I was" since this is the correct sentence by the rule of concord?

CANTICLES:


His Father create him as the beginning of his creation ( Rev 3:14 )



Jesus didn't create his Father , did he ?

The Father is not among the all things made through Jesus , that one create Jesus

And who ever said the Father was made or created? Are you now confused?

Stop dodging the question. Answer it.