.

TheSixthSense:
How can morality evolve? Truth is absolute. There is good and there is evil. God's laws are good and moral and endures all ages. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and love your neighbour as yourself. How can this not be good and subject to evolution? Except you are an existentialist then it's up to you to formulate your morality for yourself which would be modified by your offsprings until good becomes evil and evil becomes good.

Problem:How can we obey God’s natural laws when we’re not sure what they are?

If God has written a subset of his laws on our hearts, what exactly are they?
God’s Laws (according to the Bible) sometimes contradict God’s Natural Laws. For example: Natural law tells us that killing healthy babies is wrong, but God’s Law says it’s sometimes okay
(Gen. 7:21, Exodus 12:12, Psalm 137:9). Natural law presently tells us that owning and beating slaves is wrong, but God’s Law provides us with
a how-to manual (Exodus 21). Natural law tells us it’s wrong to steal and rape, but God’s Law says he may personally send men
to steal from you and rape you (Zechariah 14:2). Natural law also tells us it’s always wrong for a
man to rape a woman, and then to force her to marry her rapist; but God’s Law says this is totally permissible (Deut. 22:28-29).
Feelings of guilt are often unreliable measures of right and wrong.

For example, an anorexic girl may feel guilty about
eating a sandwich, but is she right? Is God using guilt as a natural way of condemning her for
inappropriate behavior? Or does she feel guilty only because she did something she believed was wrong? And her mind is now wrestling with the logical contradiction?
finally, with regards to conscience, many early cultures once independently reached the rather
natural conclusion that the sun was a god. How did they all “just know” this? Did God write this message on the hearts of the Aztecs, Incas, Egyptians, Greeks, Hindus, Persians, West Africans, Celtics and others? Did God guide their conscience
to this conclusion?
Or the ancient mexicans that believed sacrificing of babies was okay ?(without feeling guilt)
How can we obey God’s “natural laws” when these laws can be so misleading?

---

or polygamy?
In the biblical times it was a normal thing,,,even advocated by yahweh himself..
Polygamy approved here
yahweh was directly with them.

Also the christians of the first century(c.jesus period) would swear that the holy spirit ws with them though slavery was practiced at that time and considered moral...

I have once replied a question you asked and you cancelled everything and saying it didn't make any sense to you so there is no point wasting my time with your questions. Your mind is made up anyway. You asked if morality evolves and I said No, it doesn't. I also went on to say if you are an existentialist you can go ahead to believe what you want. You are not looking for reasons to believe neither are you looking for reasons why I believe in God despite formerly being an atheist. I only assume you try to make me become an atheist like yourself by discrediting my beliefs but this method has never worked. Why don't you tell me what atheism has to offer that I don't know about? Bring your tenets of atheism and put it up for scrutiny. But I would leave you with these questions for you to do your research and report your findings.

Did the man Jesus walk the earth or not?
Was He crucified in death?
Did He resurrect?
Did He ascend into heaven, if No, where then are His remains?

Start looking into these questions, research to solve the mystery. write a comprehensive book and I promise I would buy 10 copies no matter your findings.

Have a fabulous day.

You don't have to reply btw

raphieMontella:

Problem:How can we obey God’s natural laws when we’re not sure what they are?

If God has written a subset of his laws on our hearts, what exactly are they?
God’s Laws (according to the Bible) sometimes contradict God’s Natural Laws. For example: Natural law tells us that killing healthy babies is wrong, but God’s Law says it’s sometimes okay
(Gen. 7:21, Exodus 12:12, Psalm 137:9). Natural law presently tells us that owning and beating slaves is wrong, but God’s Law provides us with
a how-to manual (Exodus 21). Natural law tells us it’s wrong to steal and rape, but God’s Law says he may personally send men
to steal from you and rape you (Zechariah 14:2). Natural law also tells us it’s always wrong for a
man to rape a woman, and then to force her to marry her rapist; but God’s Law says this is totally permissible (Deut. 22:28-29).
Feelings of guilt are often unreliable measures of right and wrong.

For example, an anorexic girl may feel guilty about
eating a sandwich, but is she right? Is God using guilt as a natural way of condemning her for
inappropriate behavior? Or does she feel guilty only because she did something she believed was wrong? And her mind is now wrestling with the logical contradiction?
finally, with regards to conscience, many early cultures once independently reached the rather
natural conclusion that the sun was a god. How did they all “just know” this? Did God write this message on the hearts of the Aztecs, Incas, Egyptians, Greeks, Hindus, Persians, West Africans, Celtics and others? Did God guide their conscience
to this conclusion?
Or the ancient mexicans that believed sacrificing of babies was okay ?(without feeling guilt)
How can we obey God’s “natural laws” when these laws can be so misleading?

---

or polygamy?
In the biblical times it was a normal thing,,,even advocated by yahweh himself..
Polygamy approved here
yahweh was directly with them.

Also the christians of the first century(c.jesus period) would swear that the holy spirit ws with them though slavery was practiced at that time and considered moral...

I didnt want to reply..but i saw something which caught my eye

TheSixthSense:

Your mind is made up anyway. You asked if morality evolves and I said No, it doesn't.

i asked a simple question..i gave reasons.and you gave me nothing

You are not looking for reasons to believe neither are you looking for reasons why I believe in God despite formerly being an atheist.

which is?
What you have been telling me is nothing

I only assume you try to make me become an atheist like yourself by discrediting my beliefs but this method has never worked.

i believe i explained this before oga

Why don't you tell me what atheism has to offer that I don't know about? Bring your tenets of atheism and put it up for scrutiny.

atheism is not a thing..
Secular humanism is the ''thing''

But I would leave you with these questions for you to do your research and report your findings.

Did the man Jesus walk the earth or not?

depends on the ''how''

Was He crucified in death?

crucifixion was left for the worst of criminals and runaway slaves sir..
Not blasphemy..no records of it tho

Did He resurrect?

hell no!
He appeared,,talked etc to 500 people in jerusalem(according to paul) and the romans did nothing..almighty rome?

Did He ascend into heaven, if No, where then are His remains?

ha!..manure?
Or is it that empty tomb stuff?

Start looking into these questions, research to solve the mystery.

done it long ago boss..and i can show you how deep it goes..(mine)

write a comprehensive book and I promise I would buy 10 copies no matter your findings.

if i write a book on atheism etc..
I'd do my best to make it free...

Have a fabulous day.

was fabulous sire...

You don't have to reply btw

i didnt..but i had to..
How do we know gods natural law?(since punishments are attached to it)
thats all i asked sire..

ValentineMary:
These new theist on nairaland and their ranting. Na wa ooo. If u guys can't open threads we can learn from, why not shut up.

Oh yea, you open a thread on christianity matters and you expect us to keep quiet even in the face of detected errors? Na wa for u oga.

TheSixthSense:
Thus says the Lord: Do not let the wise boast in their wisdom, do not let the mighty boast in their might, do not let the wealthy boast in their wealth; but let those who boast boast in this, that they understand and know me, that I am the Lord; I act with steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in the earth, for in these things I delight, says the Lord (Jer 9:23-24)

I sensed that his story couldn't be all lies. I believed he was honest for most parts, particularly when he said christians are heartless because if they knew and believed in hell they would go out on evangelism and I know only someone that has seen that reality to can say such. He also said God is wicked because many people would eventually die unsaved, the majority even, despite his efforts and honest desire to try to reach people for God. Another emotional part was that of the blind man who although he believed 'Jesu I believe...' still didn't receive his healing.

However, one thing I recurrently spotted from his account was pervasive pride. He was still proud of his 'achievements' despite his fall away. So many 'I' performed miracles, I was 'so good' at convincing people (he didn't know that it is God that calls His own), 'I' had the gift of 'word of knowledge' I did this, I did that, 'by now I would have been a superstar'. What did Satan do again, before he got cast out of heaven? Couldn't be much different. My major concern about the whole thing is how many of his kind are still in ministry currently that are in their minds atheists but only continue because they make a living from the career.

His story had a positive effect on my christian walk because it caused me to look inwards, to re-examine and reflect on my motive for serving God is it for glorification of self, to grant my every need - sort of like a genie, not a Lord who owns me - why do I desire certain things from the Lord? Also his narration about fake miracles - particularly about the woman with cancer who although she identified being healed in church left for surgery but they lied by not telling the church members about her true condition - made me look deeper into pentecostalism and wasn't surprised to find that it thrives so much on emotionalism, easy-believism, extra-biblical revelations and activities that almost renders the bible obsolete and also opens the pandora's box of all sorts of occult and strange fire. How someone can confidently teach another a supposed gift of the Spirit is amazing, why then is it a gift?

However, I found that there are people who actually worship and adore God for who He is not because of what He can or would do for them, in fact these lot do not even ask for virtually anything yet they just give thanks. I certainly want to become like them. There is a stark difference in the character and lives of such christians that are many times in contrast with the always bubbly counterparts who usually delight in the gifts and not the Giver. They had a peace and joy not because of anything they have but because they know the Lord.

I also found that the best books on faith are usually written by martyrs and missionaries and certainly not from freemason wolves like Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, Kenneth Copeland, Rick Joyner, Jesse Duplantis, Mike Murdock, Joel Osteen and the bunch of them who appear in the 'word-of-faith new age money gospel' movement. A foundation built on deception and lies would certainly falter when the storms hit.

'They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us' (1 John 2:9)

'Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God' (2 Thes 2:3-4)

You touched my heart until you slide into mentioning names, and played the game of condemnation.

Romans 8:33-34 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect [when it is] God Who justifies [that is, Who puts us in right relation to Himself? Who shall come forward and accuse or impeach those whom God has chosen? Will God, Who acquits us?]

Who is there to condemn [us]? Will Christ Jesus (the Messiah), Who died, or rather Who was raised from the dead, Who is at the right hand of God actually pleading as He intercedes for us?

When i got converted newly from Catholicism, i grappled with the preconcieved notion that every Pentecostal preacher was fake and in alliance with satan.

Growing in Catholic Church, we were indoctrinated to believe that the false prophet Jesus warned against are the Pentecostal Pastors, We were told that they seek powers from satan to perform miracles, and we were to shun them, and we did, at least i did.

Although i was a regular in that Pentecostal Church, (followed my relatives as i was living with them at the time), i just enjoyed the music but shunned the messages.

The Holy Spirit was patient with me until one evening. Immediately the pastor climbed the podium, as usual, i branded satanic and locked up. But right there in the midst of all those people, i heard a voice, an audible voice (I think that was the very first time i heard an audible voice of God, even as a sinner, i heard it loud and clear) which asked me theae questions i will never ever forget till die.

The voice said " Does he need powers to preach the Gospel? Since you have been coming, how many miracles has he performed?" Can satan preach the gospel of salvation?

Right then it struck me that it was indeed true. The Pastor was a word based Pastor. You hear the Word if you believe it, then the word you believed activates the supernatural and then the miracle happens. He never laid his hands or touched anyone. There was nothing like Anointing, oil, or Holy Water or any of those things we hear and see these charlatans use in the name of God.


I think that was the day i gave my life to Christ, because, i felt something left me that night. From then i needed to know more about God.

Those questions grew with me and they still with me today. I use them as yardsticks to measure preachers who are just here to excite people without any real life transforming messages

And, am going to ask you these same questions today.

1. Can an agent of satan preach (half truths, which is what false preachers do) either by word of mouth or by print and get a sinner turn genuinely to Christ and drop sin?


2. Satan Chief tool is pride, Can a Freemason/false preacher preach a message that breaks pride in someone and replaces it with humility?

3. Anger, unforgiveness, maliciousness, greed, disobedience, stealing, lying, the sexually immoral (Perverts), malignity, Obscenity etc, these we know are satans weapons or strongholds. Can a Satanic agent masquerading as a preacher, preach the kind of messages that would transform and bring about regeneration in the lives of people with the above sins?

I have listened to some of these people you mentioned, and i have read their books. They all preach the salvation that comes only by having faith in the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

Kenneth E. Hagins books are life transforming books(godly) and have done a great deal in shaping my life. I don't know for others, but i know me.
I know how quickly i can be piqued into anger.

Thanks for the Holy Spirit through their books.

I am a living example of one who have been helped and to a large extent changed tremendously, just by reading these men's books.

If you tell me that Satan can get pride, self love, arrogance, haughtiness out of someone and replace them with humility, selflessness and love, then i would have to start crying here.
Those men you mentioned preaches these virtues.

Pick Kenneth E. Hagins " How To Be Led by The Holy Spirit" and read. When you are done and still tell me that that man worked for satan, then i will give up on you.


BOTTOMLINE; SATAN CAN NOT POINT ANYONE TOWARDS GOD. He points away from God to self.

HardMirror:

Where have you been all these days? Been wasting my time replying pretenders like 4evergod, kingebukablog, winner01, anas09 that don't even talk like they own a bible talkless of being christians. I honestly will like to know you more and talk more. Let me not say more so it won't be as if I am praising you. Reply and let's correspond. You are the first discerning christian I have met online so far

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. kai, this man wont kee pesin.

In your mind...

You researched The Roman Catholic organization and arrived at the conclusion that there's no God. Hahahahahahahahaha.


So, a Church organization shd validate the existence of God? Did The Catholic organization start The Church?


See? this is the reason i wrote you off as a fraud, or better still, a child.

You speak good grammar but lack sense, this could be the reason you couldn't go beyond the point you went, if at all you went anywhere in church.

You were simply conferred with the Pastoral title, but you never had any relationship with Him whom you claimed to have served. You were full of activities, but lacked a motive why you were active.

So many questions were asked, till this moment you couldn't answer one.

According to you, the last straw that broke the Camel's back for you, was wen you and your general overseer fasted for 70days for Boko Haram to stop bombing churches, but it didn't stop. Base on that, you broke your Pastoral vow, you dropped your Shepherd staff, you severed your allegiance with God and declared Him none-existent. For if He existed, he shd have done as you commanded, even when it goes against the prophecies he has in ages past prophesied.

You see? You are a Master to God. You tell Him what to do, how to do it, and when to do it. It doesn't matter whether what is going on is his Will, or timing was a factor, but as God"s Master, He must bend to your whims or you'd declare Him none existent.

As long as you keep sounding like a naive child, i shall keep regarding you as one.

TheSixthSense, good luck with your new found friend.

TheSixthSense:
There are stories about conspiracies about christianity and the Roman Catholic church and how it is a mechanism for control and power. I have heard so much about these. I read the Da Vinci Code and almost all Dan Brown books it gives another perspective and causes one to start searching like for things like the Merovingians (the proposed Jesus' bloodline) and it is so easy to get it all confused. But in the midst of all of that is the message of God in the Bible. Is it good? Is it true, Is Jesus the Christ? Read the book of John(John 20:31)

Let's face it, we naturally look for every reason to doubt and disbelieve because living according to God's laws is not the easiest to live by. And the bible tells us that the thought of man is evil from his youth, deceitful and desperately wicked (Gen 8:21, Jer 17:9) and that sinners cannot find God, they are naturally hostile to Him and neither can they please Him (Rom 3:11, Rom 8:7- So, the truth is that unless the Holy Spirit convicts one of sin to realise their sinful and wicked nature, s/he will never see the need for repentance and Jesus Christ and would probably remain unbeliever even when they are church workers or pastors.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and works with the truth of God's Word. True repentance comes from the knowledge of truth in the Gospel of Jesus Christ 'Repent and believe in the gospel' (Mark 1:15) not how good a person preaches or how appealing a church is, it is personal. It is a supernatural work of God and you will know in your heart that Jesus is Lord. That's why salvation is usually a testimony because the convert does not even need to even know about eschatology before they see where their old lifestyles were leading them and out of love and fear tell people about Jesus Christ and hell.

But unfortunately, the cheap hyper-grace movement by people like jiggaz Paul Ellis, Joyce Meyer, Joseph Prince, people who never had a conviction in the first place of their sinful state but only verbally professed Jesus Christ as their saviour would think they are born again when they actually aren't. So their lives remain unchanged then they teach them in churches that they have the Holy Spirit and teach them how to speak in tongues so they remain deluded in the deceptive doctrine that christianity and Jesus Christ is all love, positive thinking, abundant life in prosperity without God's righteous judgement until they find out certain truths about these churches or/and pastors then they become devastated that they have been living a lie so they resort to becoming atheists. The bible talks about this in 2 Thes 2:9-12 because they refused to believe the truth to be saved.

I have seen people who came out of these churches after several years that undergo rehabilitation in the word of God, the peace they experience now is contagious. I believe there is a revival and that the Lord is leading his people out of these demonic centres.

The assurance of salvation is the all in all for any believer of Jesus Christ. All other things are peripherals including all miracles, deliverance, parting the red sea. Any christian can conveniently live a happy peaceful life without even experiencing these.

Standing aloof and passing Judgement over people can be very wrong. I can tell you this first hand, because i WAS very good at Critiquing and profiling people.

I dont know much about Paul Elis or Joseph Prince. But, Joyce Meyers was a woman i never believed in until two weeks.

I was going through a phase. A lot was going on in my life that i needed direction on how to sort them out. I just decided to pay a certain young pastor a visit and immediately we settled to start talking, the Holy Spirit took over that man and he started uploading stuff in my life i was grappling with. stuff i had not told anyone and wasn't going to even tell him. I was so shocked, i know the Holy Spirit can speak through people to us, but to this extent?

He told me to go back the next day, i did. After everything, he prayed with me and handed me a book "How To Hear from God" by the same woman i never believed in, Joyce Meyer.

I wanted to Object, I had opened my mouth to say something against her, then i remembered one of the things he warned me against was the spirit of Criticism, so i half heatedly collected the book.
Long story short, am buying my copy and if possible every of her books. I read it back to back twice, and am still buying a copy.
No one can write the mind of Christ aligning the scriptures without the Spirit of Christ living in them.

My life is changed by reading that book. I had to kneel down and ask God for forgiveness. For everything i said or held against her or anyone else.
Anytime i pick that book up, its as if that woman is sitting opposite me talking directly to me.

Satan can not rebuke you for disobeying God.

Satan can not urge you to obey God promptly, satan can not stir you up to forgive someone who took advantage of the fact that you are a Christian so shd turn the other cheek and insults you stupid, and yet you are the one to go and apologize. Reading that book, i did just that.

Till today that lady still can not believe that after all she did, am still the one who went to her and said am sorry, pls forgive me. And i meant it.

The peace that had eluded me returned like a flood.

As i read that book, i was looking at myself through a mirror.
All my short comings as a Christian which are hindrances are all there. What to do to break free are also there. Every step backed by the Scriptures, and me being a lover of the Word, i just glided.

My bad manners in this forum were starring me in the face, and i also repented of all of them. And i promised never to get angry unnecessarily again, never to be harsh, or hard and pressing, but to be, kind, humble lowly and gentle towards the unbelievers here, for i was once a stubborn unbeliever, it is by his grace that we are saved not by anything else. This my mouth must be curbed.

No charlatan can invoke this emotions from someone. No charlatan can provoke repentance from an erring soul back to God. No charlatan make break pride from a haughty person.

Charlatans are known to stir excitements, raise smoke without any fire. Charlatans don't preach the word of eternal life which is capable of restoring a fallen or straying or backsliding Child. The Word is what sustains when everything else fails, Charlatans dont have the Word, but Joyce Meyers have the Word. She is not a Charlatan.




YES, Joyce Meyer is a seasoned servant of God. The Word believing child of God. I don't care what anyone says. The Word of Faith works.
Total dependence on God Works.

TheSixthSense:
I have once replied a question you asked and you cancelled everything and saying it didn't make any sense to you so there is no point wasting my time with your questions. Your mind is made up anyway. You asked if morality evolves and I said No, it doesn't. I also went on to say if you are an existentialist you can go ahead to believe what you want. You are not looking for reasons to believe neither are you looking for reasons why I believe in God despite formerly being an atheist. I only assume you try to make me become an atheist like yourself by discrediting my beliefs but this method has never worked. Why don't you tell me what atheism has to offer that I don't know about? Bring your tenets of atheism and put it up for scrutiny. But I would leave you with these questions for you to do your research and report your findings.

Did the man Jesus walk the earth or not?
Was He crucified in death?
Did He resurrect?
Did He ascend into heaven, if No, where then are His remains?

Start looking into these questions, research to solve the mystery. write a comprehensive book and I promise I would buy 10 copies no matter your findings.

Have a fabulous day.

You don't have to reply btw

Very good.

Analice107, what happened right there is called "Cold Reading"

hopefulLandlord:
Analice107, what happened right there is called "Cold Reading"

You are still quoting this bitch? Go away

HardMirror:

No it is not, but if anyone claims to be spiritual and is not discerning, such person is nothing but a puppet.

Not until you or those who have read your long epistle come up with the testimony of your conversion, you remain an angel of light.

And those who truly are discerning know that you were never a Christian.

Working Signs and wonders is not a proof that one was or is a Christian.

Until I know the testimony of your conversion,
You're not ready for a serious debate.

And I'm, by God's grace, one more than fit to take you on and pin your logic to the ground.


God's swordsman

analice107:


BOTTOMLINE; SATAN CAN NOT POINT ANYONE TOWARDS GOD. He points away from God to self.

You're wrong in the light of this scripture:

2 Corinthians 11
14 AND NO MARVEL; FOR SATAN HIMSELF IS TRANSFORMED INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT.
15 THEREFORE IT IS NO GREAT THING IF HIS MINISTERS ALSO BE TRANSFORMED AS THE MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS; whose end shall be according to their works.

It's the reason I keep asking hardmirror about the testimony of conversion.

He could have been foreordained by the devil and sent to come and study us and then attempt to destroy us - which he never can do.

It's said: Know the rules so well in order to break them effectively.

He's using spiritual gift as a cloak for his fundamental falsehood

.

flamingREED:


You're wrong in the light of this scripture:

2 Corinthians 11
14 AND NO MARVEL; FOR SATAN HIMSELF IS TRANSFORMED INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT.
15 THEREFORE IT IS NO GREAT THING IF HIS MINISTERS ALSO BE TRANSFORMED AS THE MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS; whose end shall be according to their works.

It's the reason I keep asking hardmirror about the testimony of conversion.

He could have been foreordained by the devil and sent to come and study us and then attempt to destroy us - which he never can do.

It's said: Know the rules so well in order to break them effectively.

He's using spiritual gift as a cloak for his fundamental falsehood

Sir, that scripture does not go with my assertion.
Satan transforms into an Angel of light only to deceive, not to point sinners to Christ.

The Angel of light Masquerades and twist scriptures to deceive the lazy who will not read the Bible for themselves.

He teaches half truths mixed with errors. he takes scriptures out of contexts. He bases mainly on miracles. decievable miracles, knowing that miracles does not engender salvation, these are the tools of the Angel of light.

Have you ever heard of "Coconut service?", A prophet organized a three days programme tagged "Coconut service". Every member must come with a head of Coconut that did not fall to the ground. pluck it , hold it and come down with it, If it drops its useless. After the prayers, they brake it, use the water to wash away their badluck, then pour the remains in the middle of the road for people to trample on their enemies under feet. This is one is Church right?

If someone comes out from a place like this, he will bring himself here and cry woe.

And lazy people are falling over themselves to do it.

This is what i mean. Satan doesn't point people to God.

analice107:



This is what i mean. Satan doesn't point people to God.

You need to learn more about the slyness of satan.

Acts 16
16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

TheSixthSense:

I sensed you are surprised by my 'condemnation' but verify these people for yourself. I will continue to put their names up for all to see and take heed. The bible says a little leaven leavens the lump. A little corruption is enough to distort the truth of God. My faith has been shaken as well and it is by His grace that I have now come to a resolution that when push comes to shove I will hold on to Scripture. Scripture alone with a clear conscience before God.

Discernment of spirits is a gift of the Holy Spirit we are exhorted to desire earnestly all gifts. I used to like some of these people at least I respected them. I remember very early when I first got saved for some reason I posted a similar thing on Facebook, without names that some of these popular churches are deceiving God's people leading many to hell. I didn't know much about Scripture, I occasionally felt bad about the post, christians on my page didn't even like it all, in fact it is the most unpopular message I had had to post in my entire life 6 likes/1000. But in my heart I knew I had to post that strong message and that it was the right thing and the truth. I was at peace. Thank God for the internet and the bible believing and teaching websites that explained the gospel, true salvation and conversion, I would have thought I had gone crazy but now I know it was God all along not me. I am not even bold enough to offend people.


Nobody condemns you or any other believer, I never doubted your salvation. I admire your tenacity even as is evident that you are led by the Spirit because nobody that is not born of the Spirit of God would spend so much time on NL harping about the truth in Jesus Christ. Rather I always maintain that these wolves deceive God's people, the elect. And just as Jesus said that the wheat and the tares would remain until the last day when the angels would separate them and throw some in the fire. The elect are everywhere even in some of the most deceptive of these churches. Jesus knows His sheep although some are being starved from meat of the Word of God instead fed with doctrines of greed and men. It is a useful warning because some of the elect would be deceived, if possible (Matt 24:24)


Wonderful testimony, glory to God for your life. You have once again confirmed to me that God calls and chooses us not the other way around. Indeed, Satan cannot preach the gospel of salvation that's why he is always tempting the people, like he did our Lord Jesus, with the kingdoms and pleasures of the world. I do not like the prosperity preachers never did, in my conscience I always knew there had to be something wrong with it. God found me and it has never changed in fact the more I can now look at them and shake my head because they know not of God's wrath and righteous judgement for those that do it intentionally.

There is no doubt that some elect, especially the ones in Africa - because the Americans continue inventing and exporting different perversions - teach it in sincerity, God knows that too, because it is all they had been taught and know about preaching and Jesus Christ but like I said God knows His own but we should all be like the Bereans who check with Scripture to know if what the pastor says is true (Acts 17:11).
On the other hand, some of these wolves know exactly what they have gotten into and what exactly they do. Look at Mike Murdock for example is there anything he talks about other than his money, mansions and private jets? how a believer cannot tell that he is a con-man is beyond me.



1. Like I said, some elect of God teach half-truths in sincerity because it's all they know and have been taught. But the originators, and a lot of them have an agenda that is of the devil. Before I became a christian, I knew about the new age 'positive thinking' cult where they make one make daily positive confessions everyday to change your world, to live an illusion of paradise here on earth and it works for adherents. This is exactly what Joel Osteen does. The book 'The Secret' says and has testimonies of preachers who use the technique but it doesn't make it any less of the occult. These kind of preachers will never preach the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is most of the time offensive to the sinner. Thus, the I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...' (Rom 1:16) But like your testimony, it just shows confirms how God works mysteriously even within a rubble of deception.
2 Yes, you are a testimony to that because God sees the hearts and minds of everyone and calls us to Himself. I also know a little about freemasonry and esoteric societies. Freemasons carry out rituals hold beliefs that are contradictory to Jesus Christ and His teachings. One may not know about their association and in their sincerity go looking for God in their churches. In fact, testimonies like yours and a few I have talked to ease my burden because it just shows that God works in mysterious ways. Also, pride is of the devil never of God and it is not a fruit of the Spirit. It is one Spirit we are all baptised of which we drink (1 Cor 12:13). A person may not have a gift but someone with the Holy Spirit would surely manifest the fruits. That's what I look out for in preachers and believers. People are different some may not pay attention to their lifestyle but for me, lifestyle validates or invalidates anything being preached.
3 Some people are teaching the way they have been taught sincerely.

God transformed your life, give all glory to God first. I don't know about Hagins (I didn't mention him) but there is a guy who brought the New Age thing into christianity probably him but I don't know for sure.

God gave you His Spirit the moment you got saved, I wouldn't give credit to a book and hope you don't mean that you got the Holy Spirit from reading these books.

I never mentioned Hagins maybe not yet. I hope he isn't a part of them. I hope you don't believe these pastors changed your life? God did and should get all the glory. He transformed you by His Spirit in you. I only wish you had been more specific but Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, Kenneth Copeland, Rick Joyner, Jesse Duplantis, Mike Murdock, Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer(All-seeing eye), Creflo Dollar and Benny Hinn are all of the same breed, lovers of money. They are disqualified by Scripture to even be leaders of any church. (1 Tim 3:3, Tit 1:7)
Most of what these people have made us to believe is the Holy Spirit isn't. The fact that you can testify about Jesus is because of the Holy Spirit(John 15:26) and He gives power to become witnesses (Acts 1: like the evangelists, missionaries etc. The Holy Spirit is least mentioned among the trinity in Scripture that's why most of the misconception in christianity is labelled the Holy Spirit, especially so that it won't be questioned for fear of blaspheming.
The Bereans checked the Scripture diligently to see if what even what apostle Paul was saying was true(Acts 17:11), Paul's letters were subject to verification by Scripture and other people(1 Cor 14:37) 'To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them' (Isa 8:20)
I doubt you have read any christian book written by a martyr or a missionary in heavily persecuted regions of which Nigeria is top on the list. These are books where you see faith in action. You see the subtle but mighty move and glory of God. Do you think christians in the persecuted regions preach the same message as these guys? Of what use is the message of the guys I mentioned to any of those christians or are they any less christian? Maybe they don't they have the Holy Spirit that is able to give one person four private jets but can't even provide protection for the family of missionaries.


Probably his old tactic, he now points people to a god that cannot be verified by Scripture (but God in His mercy calls out His own) to deceive people with fake gospel that Jesus Christ died to give people abundant life of riches and wealth and health and that christians cannot and do not suffer. If they did, then they don't have the right faith. So, when they believe that and fast for 7 months like Hardmirror and don't get what they desire, they become depleted, start having doubts then finally become atheists. How many times have we seen more people coming out of these kind of churches to become atheists?
Believers who eventually come out of these churches after several years usually undergo rehabilitation with good teaching of the Bible.

May God help us all.

I agree with this. All these new generation churches and their cheap gospel are so pathetic. I read some of their books in the past and threw them away because of their emptiness Jesus told us that we will have the good things of life and that we will also have persecution so anybody who is telling me only about the good side without the bad side is useless to me.

Kenneth Hagin corrected the errors in his teachings in the book that he wrote before he died(i ve forgotten the title of the book). In that book he spoke against prosperity gospel and corrected his teachings.

I like the course that this thread has taken. Anyhow some of these guys will be in hell. Our Lord works in mysterious ways!

@ Thesixthsense you seem to have a knack for detecting fakes. Please talk about Nigerian fakes.

.

Ranchhoddas:
@ Thesixthsense you seem to have a knack for detecting fakes. Please talk about Nigerian fakes.

Hehehe, you'll like watching film a lot. What do you need names for, what you need is the Spirit of God and attention.

TheSixthSense:
God bless you. Did you manage to read the whole story? I couldn't because of the several comments in between and it's not like he even helped either. Sad story, he mentioned encountering eerie manifestations afterwards and he still believes there are witches and the demonic but now claims there is no God deceiving new atheists that got tired of churchianity and giving more credence to the atheism fad. True, in many such churches, there is no god there, certainly not the same One of the bible. So those that are wise should take heed and seek God through His word. I only feel sorry for these other atheists that think it's 'rational' human behaviour to always look out for christian posts to attack God, christians and christianity.

...An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah...(Matt 12:29)

lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices (2 Cor 2:11)

Keep doing the good work.

No i ve not been able to go through his story because of time. They can only deceive the feeble minds. God will help us.

Ok. I don't think there is any need even. You have as much information you need already.

honourhim:


No i ve not been able to go through his story because of time. They can only deceive the feeble minds. God will help us.

Repent and believe in Jesus Christ. You will not only identify fakes but you will find God.

Ranchhoddas:
@ Thesixthsense you seem to have a knack for detecting fakes. Please talk about Nigerian fakes.

TheSixthSense:
Repent and believe in Jesus Christ. You will not only identify fakes but you will find God.

Sir, can I add you on Facebook?

TheSixthSense:
Repent and believe in Jesus Christ. You will not only identify fakes but you will find God.

Some people who have 'repented' and 'found God' appear not to agree with you. Why is that?

Image123:



Hehehe, you'll like watching film a lot. What do you need names for, what you need is the Spirit of God and attention.

You agree with his list?

Ranchhoddas:
I like the course that this thread has taken. Anyhow some of these guys will be in hell. Our Lord works in mysterious ways!

You think pastors cannot go to hell?

honourhim:


You think pastors cannot go to hell?

I don't think there's a hell. At least not the eternal one.

please we Christian should stop disturbing ourtself with these atheists especially those of faith before that turned back, the bible is completed, we have so many personalities that started with God and end up with their thinking....check Balam, King Saul, they are all there for us to learn. and let everyone know that whatever your view about God is, it can't change the fact that He is God...…it is so easy to err in knowledge once you are full of yourself.....

what I have learnt so far is that if you are not constantly get revelations, you might be easily discourage....and not everybody will be able to uphold the faith till the end..even among the early believers, many turned back only those that understand the deep things of the spirit will hold on to the Book of life.

Solomon in all his wisdom at the end seeth life as vanity, but life is not vanity, if its vanity, christ will not come for vain things and God Himself will not create things for vain....that's why Christ is greater than Solomon.....
so anybody can conclude his or her Christian life as he or she wanted, life goes on and Christianity will never cease to exist.

Gboyee4fun:
please we Christian should stop disturbing ourtself with these atheists especially those of faith before that turned back, the bible is completed, we have so many personalities that started with God and end up with their thinking....check Balam, King Saul, they are all there for us to learn. and let everyone know that whatever your view about God is, it can't change the fact that He is God...…it is so easy to err in knowledge once you are full of yourself.....

what I have learnt so far is that if you are not constantly get revelations, you might be easily discourage....and not everybody will be able to uphold the faith till the end..even among the early believers, many turned back only those that understand the deep things of the spirit will hold on to the Book of life.

Solomon in all his wisdom at the end seeth life as vanity, but life is not vanity, if its vanity, christ will not come for vain things and God Himself will not create things for vain....that's why Christ is greater than Solomon.....
so anybody can conclude his or her Christian life as he or she wanted, life goes on and Christianity will never cease to exist.

We respond to them because of feeble minds who may read their testimonies and be carried away by their deceit. Their main target in their testimonies are these feeble minds, not those of us who confront their deceits.