UyiIredia:


Have you ever considered the fact that you could be the one indoctrinated in materialist dogma. Because the evidence for God from the universe and life in it is plainly manifest.

Are there any institutions that are indoctrinating people in 'materialist dogma'?

PastorAIO:


Don't let the atheists catch you saying that theism has anything to do with supernatural/naturalism. There are many theists who may believe in the supernatural but it doesn't play much of a role in their ideology. And there are many Atheists who have a rich supernatural beliefs. Like some buddhists for instance.

But the question of what people mean when they say supernatural has been of interest to me for a while now. It is another one of those ill defined terms that people use a lot.

The sense in which I use Natural and Supernatural is not in reference to things (corporal entities), but rather to processes. So there are various things and beings, and these things and beings can undergo Natural Processes and/or Supernatural processes.

Definition: Natural Processes are Processes in which influence passes from one event to another through space and through time, through the more proximal parts to the less proximal parts.

For example, if you take the universe as a string of events that started from the Initiation (to avoid creation vs big bang imbroglio) and extend as history through time towards the future, then I would take that to be a Natural Process.

In a Natural process all events are caused by prior events that occurred before them. Influence only travels forwards in Time. What you do today cannot have an outcome on what happened yesterday but what happened yesterday can have an outcome on today.

On the other hand Influence can move in any direction in space. But what is closer to the Cause (source of influence) experiences the influence before what is further.

What is Supernatural would then be any process that seems to over rule this Natural process.

For example. If I witness in my imagination an event that is yet to occur, i.e. a future event is making an impression on my mind today then possibly influence has passed backwards through time to make an impact on my mind.

Or another example, if you take the universe as one long historical process and you now imagine a Volition that is outside of this process (i.e. outside of the chain of causality) yet emits an influence that determines the outcome of an event in History, that Non-temporal influence would be supernatural.
I must point out that when I say that this volition is outside of history I'm not talking about the likes of most human volition which is just a part of the Natural process. e.g a man watches an advert and discovers that he has a strong desire to buy a pair of shoes and he goes out to buy them. You can trace his purchase back to the Advert he saw. The Volition was brought about by a prior event in time.
This is different from a volition that is not influenced by anything in the environment, not the upbringing, not the society, nothing. Such a volition influences history but is not influenced by history.

Before this starts becoming a long story, the long and short of what I'm saying is that I see the dichotomy of Natural Supernatural as a reference, not to beings or things, but to processes that things undergo.

Thanks for the correction about theism and supernatural beliefs.

This, about "processes" rather than "beings", is a really interesting view! Hmm I never exactly thought of it this way. I will think further on this, but two things come to mind now:
- Don't you think it might be a bit reductionist (in theory) to say it all comes down to the spatio-temporal? I mean, the spatio-temporal is all we really can demonstrate. How do we know that our arguments about supernatural processes are not fallacies of self-knowing?
- Since it is hard (or impossible?) to demonstrate or reproduce any information that is not bound in space and time, wouldn't this mean there is no way to properly (scientifically) investigate "supernatural" claims, until we find feasible ways to transcend space and time? All we would have to work with is information produced "after the fact" (where "after" is yet another reference to a natural process. Can we ever understand supernatural processes then, being natural beings?)

HardMirror:
CONTINUATION
Life in school was like living a fantasy!
Now, Note I was not a regular christian, I had so many people looking up to me and the burden was not easy. So I had to have friends of like mind, friends that shared the burden with me. Friends I also shared their burden just as the bible encouraged us to bear each others burden.

Akindeko Moto park was our war zone. If I tell you how we prayed you may find it hard to believe. We could pray for 12 hrours straight NONE STOP. You don't believe me? Ask those who know Baba Ogundare or Pastor Charlse of Dream Center church a spiritual son of Pastor shola Areogun. Speaking in tongues made 99% of our prayers.

I had 3 friends I always prayed with. 2 of them were from deeper life and one from Love Domain. Now this is sort of contradictory. Love Domain don't take doctrines and laws as serious as deeper life members.
The deeper life brothers were only interested in soul winning, but the love domain brother was all about working of miracles and working in the supernatural. He hated our "morning cries".

I remember the day he said we should go to akindeko Mosque (don't know if the mosque is still there) and challenge them just the way elijah challenged the prophets of baal.
His proposal was for us to get a mad man and take to the mosque and ask them to cure the mad man, if they can't then we will cure the man and they will know we serve the true God.

I recall how we kept quiet that midnight (about 3am) only 4 of use in the dark at akindeko Park. Listening for the Holy Spirit to direct us to go ahead or withdraw from this suicide mission.

We have had clashes with the moslims at this mosque because we were very stubborn and radical. We were always disturbing them with our preachings. They almost stabbed one of us at a time.

There was this guy, Alfa Christopher (real name) and Alfa Civil (real nick name) who were are arch enemies then. Alfa civil was very popular in the whole engineering school.

I know that Alfa Civil very well


Cc Esanemmanuel

Cc Esanemmanuel

HardMirror:
Morning everyone.
Now I really really laugh at some silly chaps here trying to corner me and tell me I don't really know christ. Someone asking me how I got the holy spirit with the manifestation of speaking in tongues. Lol!
I made the first set of Baba Ogundare's Trainees. If only you know who Rev. Ogundare is. Or if only you know who Rev. Olusola Areogun is, you folks won't be spewing thrash here.
Before I even met them I was already well seeped in the gospel. I don't just read the bible, I have books I have written based on the revelation of the holy spirit to me as I read the bible.
At home I was regarded as a prophet. I prayed at least 6hrs none stop everyday. My mum felt I was called for a special assignment so she encouraged me after many attempts to stop me.
She used to be scared I would die of fasting. And yeah people die of fasting. Had a brother in CAC campus fellowship FUTA that died around 2010 from complications that were a result of fasting.

You christians here have no idea the kind of life I lved for christ.

I lived so well for god that when I became an atheist, I became the type that if you visit me to preach to me, you will leave almost throwing your bible away.

Nairaland is not enough to tell it all. I am the kind of guy that if I had continued as a christian would have ended up a legend.

So dear christians hold your horses.
Now shall I continue?

InesQor:
two things come to mind now:
- Don't you think it might be a bit reductionist (in theory) to say it all comes down to the spatio-temporal? I mean, the spatio-temporal is all we really can demonstrate. How do we know that our arguments about supernatural processes are not fallacies of self-knowing?
- Since it is hard (or impossible?) to demonstrate or reproduce any information that is not bound in space and time, wouldn't this mean there is no way to properly (scientifically) investigate "supernatural" claims, until we find feasible ways to transcend space and time? All we would have to work with is information produced "after the fact" (where "after" is yet another reference to a natural process. Can we ever understand supernatural processes then, being natural beings?)

Hmmm… this is quite convoluted. Let me see if I understand what you are asking. Are you suggesting that since all we can demonstrate is spatio-temporal then it'll be impossible to demonstrate the supernatural?

Well, not strictly. What I said was Natural was Influence that passed through spatiotemporal, while supernatural Influence can pass through extra-dimensions. Yet the Cause and Effect (the influencer and the influenced) can still be firmly spatiotemporal.

Take for instance the case of Quantum Entanglement. Here are two objects, photons. What is done to one photon has an immediate effect on the other photon. That immediacy is what requires a supernatural explanation. The initial change in the first photon does NOT emit an influence that travels through space, over time, to affect the other photon. The immediacy suggests that the influence probably passed through another dimension in which the two photons are a lot more proximal, even co-located.

Natural or Supernatural comes in when we try to explain the phenomenon. If the phenomenon can be explained within a spatio-temporal framework then that is a Natural explanation. If it cannot then it requires a supernatural explanation.

As it turns out it has been impossible (thus far) to create a theory of physics that does not resort to extra-dimensional frameworks. This is why most Atheists/Materialists have a hard time even just presenting a definition of what they mean by Naturalism or Supernatural. There is no definition that holds without some actual scientific evidence that says that there are supernatural phenomena too.
When I pin MY definition on the spatiotemporal that is just my own arbitrarily defined use of the words Natural and Supernatural. Anyone who wants to discuss it with me and disagrees with my definition should produce their own definition and I'll be happy to discuss the terms with him/her within his/her own defined framework. So far all I've ever encountered is people ducking from the responsibility of defining what they mean when they use the terms.

PastorAIO:


Hmmm… this is quite convoluted. Let me see if I understand what you are asking. Are you suggesting that since all we can demonstrate is spatio-temporal then it'll be impossible to demonstrate the supernatural?

Well, not strictly. What I said was Natural was Influence that passed through spatiotemporal, while supernatural Influence can pass through extra-dimensions. Yet the Cause and Effect (the influencer and the influenced) can still be firmly spatiotemporal.

Take for instance the case of Quantum Entanglement. Here are two objects, photons. What is done to one photon has an immediate effect on the other photon. That immediacy is what requires a supernatural explanation. The initial change in the first photon does NOT emit an influence that travels through space, over time, to affect the other photon. The immediacy suggests that the influence probably passed through another dimension in which the two photons are a lot more proximal, even co-located.

Natural or Supernatural comes in when we try to explain the phenomenon. If the phenomenon can be explained within a spatio-temporal framework then that is a Natural explanation. If it cannot then it requires a supernatural explanation.

As it turns out it has been impossible (thus far) to create a theory of physics that does not resort to extra-dimensional frameworks. This is why most Atheists/Materialists have a hard time even just presenting a definition of what they mean by Naturalism or Supernatural. There is no definition that holds without some actual scientific evidence that says that there are supernatural phenomena too.
When I pin MY definition on the spatiotemporal that is just my own arbitrarily defined use of the words Natural and Supernatural. Anyone who wants to discuss it with me and disagrees with my definition should produce their own definition and I'll be happy to discuss the terms with him/her within his/her own defined framework. So far all I've ever encountered is people ducking from the responsibility of defining what they mean when they use the terms.

Lol sorry about the convolution. Yes that was what I implied. And thanks for clarifying.

Not sure if you were referring to me but I did define what I meant, to which you disagreed and provided this counter explanation.

To be clear, are you saying that when an influence is transmitted through an extra-dimension outside 3D space and forward-time, then it is supernatural, while a natural influence is confined to 4D spacetime?

Matter traveling through reverse time is essentially antimatter, and that is why I think reverse time travel is rather unlikely. "Influences" traveling backward in time is another thing entirely, since influences are not matter in themselves. I never thought of it like that so I was trying to understand where you are coming from.

From Klein's theory in the 1920s we know the 5th dimension is compacted to the order of 10^-33 cm so it is mostly unobservable to us. And we know the superstring theory requires a dimension of 10 and above to make sense. This means we have to compactify the intermediate 4 dimensions in between to fit the gap. Ergo the recent "Bulk theory" (Gia Dvali, Arkani-Hamed Nima and Dimopoulos Savas) which says that reality is made up of two membranes and "we" are clinging to one membrane while there is a large gap of bulk compacted dimensions between "us" and the "other membrane". If this bulk of extra dimensions actually exist, then we should have unexplained missing energies as gravitons seep into higher realms and neutrinos escape into the bulk gap. Discovering the Higgs Boson in 2012 gave even more weight to this idea's possible correctness.

Now to your point. Assuming the Bulk theory is accurate, then every particle on this "membrane" of spacetime has a similar particle vibrating on the other membrane except that those other ones have more mass (like musical overtones). But whatever happens here will be reflected on the other end and vice versa (Matthew 18:18 is that you?). This might also relate to "influences" that seem "uncaused" or "not yet caused" within our own spacetime observation.

laribari:


You are obviously retarded and it's so easy to tell. I'm back now, let's take it up.
Yahwah is Satan? Oh so you believe in Satan and hell right? You are actually going there if you die without repenting.

It's beta to serve idols cos they don't send people to hell right? Well the only reason idols can't do that is because they do not have the power over hell and to send or determine who goes. So for that reason you think they are beta Dan your creator, meanwhile the small power they have are being also misused by those demonic entities. Some idols demand blood, some forbid twins and demand sacrifices, yet you think they are better?

You are indeed a clown. I'm back to take you on as I took on the slowpoke that started this trend and murdered him by exposing his foolishness. I'm waiting to read from you.

You are just talking within the context of your ignorance. Do you think that I am an atheist? No I am not. I am a child of the GOD who created the universe with a BIG BANG and sends all his children to make researches of all the planets in it. Now Jehovah is one of the sons of my God who were sent to the world to make research, but he chose to be rebellious and his name was changed from JEHOVAH to Satan. Also Largas his friend has his name changed to Lucifer. And they kept on troubling the world with their religion, creating HELL FIRE for only those who worship them, especially those who have eaten the FLESH of their son (JESUS) and drunken his blood also.
But along the line, Lucifer and Satan(JEHOVAH) began to have clashes. In the book of Revelation, in one of the CHURCHES in Asia, LUCIFER was alluded to sitting in a place there. Now Lucifer gets annoyed and also sent Muhammad to the world to find a new religion, then the worshippers of muhammad also said that JEHOVAH(Satan) is in their land and people go there to stone him.

So, before you talk about something said by someone, you have to study the belief of such person. HELL FIRE IS REAL only for THE WORSHIPPER OF JEHOVAH(SATAN) and LARGAS(LUCIFER) who cannot find it possible to escape it. CHECK MY SIGNATURE TO READ SOUND DOCTRINE GIVEN TO ME BY EARTUM, a good brother of Jehovah.

otemanuduno:
You are just talking within the context of your ignorance. Do you think that I am an atheist? No I am not. I am a child of the GOD who created the universe with a BIG BANG and sends all his children to make researches of all the planets in it. Now Jehovah is one of the sons of my God who were sent to the world to make research, but he chose to be rebellious and his name was changed from JEHOVAH to Satan. Also Largas his friend has his name changed to Lucifer. And they kept on troubling the world with their religion, creating HELL FIRE for only those who worship them, especially those who have eaten the FLESH of their son (JESUS) and drunken his blood also.
But along the line, Lucifer and Satan(JEHOVAH) began to have clashes. In the book of Revelation, in one of the CHURCHES in Asia, LUCIFER was alluded to sitting in a place there. Now Lucifer gets annoyed and also sent Muhammad to the world to find a new religion, then the worshippers of muhammad also said that JEHOVAH(Satan) is in their land and people go there to stone him.

So, before you talk about something said by someone, you have to study the belief of such person. HELL FIRE IS REAL only for THE WORSHIPPER OF JEHOVAH(SATAN) and LARGAS(LUCIFER) who cannot find it possible to escape it. CHECK MY SIGNATURE TO READ SOUND DOCTRINE GIVEN TO ME BY EARTUM, a good brother of Jehovah.

I am not doubting all you've said. But how did you get the revelation. Are there any believer of revrad in Nigeria apart from you?

Ganjafama:
I am not doubting all you've said. But how did you get the revelation. Are there any believer of revrad in Nigeria apart from you?

Eartum visits me anytime I am ready to see him. All I need is to alter my state of consciousness. Then he comes to me to give me some sealed scrolls which are written in different languages. Mine is to translate it to English which is the MOST SPOKEN LANGUAGE on earth currently.

CHeck my signature for the DOCTRINE OF THE UFOS given to me by Eartum.

otemanuduno:


Eartum visits me anytime I am ready to see him. All I need is to alter my state of consciousness. Then he comes to me to give me some sealed scrolls which are written in different languages. Mine is to translate it to English which is the MOST SPOKEN LANGUAGE on earth currently.

CHeck my signature for the DOCTRINE OF THE UFOS given to me by Eartum.

I have seen the scriptures. Interesting I must say.

urahara:


Cry however u want but deep down u know islam is the right choice . why are you so angry with allah ur lord . i pity u. The moment u die and u are not a muslim u will chop koboko . allah is the true god. Muhammad is his prophet.

#dont die a kafiru

Really? You are a Muslim? WTH?

[quote author=HardMirror post=45205356]CONTINUATION...
CURIORITY and DARING TO QUESTION GOD

The christian God is regarded as a FATHER NOT a SLAVE MASTER.
I took God as my father. I discuss anything and everything with him. He was a friend I loved so much. We had a one on one relationship.
This meant I could ask God any question
I am a practical person, I don't just hear the word, I do the word.
People in the bible had chats with God and He is my father and friend so why should I not ask God questions and why should he not answer?
So ask God sincere questions

1. My Number one problem: We are to preach to all nations and make sure people don't perish
I and many christians I know were trying our absolute best to depopulate hell as fast as possible. To make sure people don't just hear the word BUT they actually get saved.
Someone asked why I pray for at least 12hours. It was because of the burden I carried. The burden of soul winning. It was terrifying that many were going to end up in hell and burn forever! if you are a christian and you believe people will end up in hell and you don't preach and try to win souls everyday YOU ARE WORSE THAN BOKO HARAM. FACT!
How can you have peace of mind and sleep at night knowing you hold the secret to eternal life in your hands and you are comfortable? How dear you buy luxuries when you can put that money into soul winning? How can you be asking God for more money, when you should pick up your bag and preach. How can you be asking God to pick up your call so you too can drive Range Rover?
It started becoming apparent that even God was a wicked God. Why?

-so he is all loving, loves humanity more than any man could ever love another man. More than an earthly father would love his son. YET God would let people perish in hell for even telling a lie no matter why you tell the lie or how small it is?


- so the best a God can do is to send humans to preach His word?

Oh wait! Seems you don't understand Jesus died in Jerusalem for the sins of the WHOLE world and If anyone dies without christ he was going to end in Hell. Wait! Do you know how many People would have died in Africa, South America, Australia, China, India, europe, before the Gospel reached them? Do you know how many people die per day?

So all these people will go to hell? The clever answer will be NO, the won't go to hell because they did not know. Oh! So if they won't go to hell because they were ignorant, why preach the gospel to them and make them informed and now if they die with the tiniest of sin without christ they end in hell. Why not leave them ignorant so their souls can be saved based on their ignorance.

How long did it take for the gospel of christ to reach the whole world? Is god truely the God of the whole world or of Jews?

It did not just add up.
This whole gospel thing started to crumble the more I thought of it.

That is just a tip of the questions I began to ask God. Of course he had no answer. The same God that reveals other peoples issues to me couldm

InesQor:

Lol sorry about the convolution. Yes that was what I implied. And thanks for clarifying.

Not sure if you were referring to me but I did define what I meant, to which you disagreed and provided this counter explanation.

I wasn't referring to you when I spoke about lack of definitions but rather to my general experience when trying to discuss these matters. Frankly, if well defined terms are not established at the start of such a conversation then the whole conversation is actually pointless.

To be clear, are you saying that when an influence is transmitted through an extra-dimension outside 3D space and forward-time, then it is supernatural, while a natural influence is confined to 4D spacetime?

Yup

Matter traveling through reverse time is essentially antimatter, and that is why I think reverse time travel is rather unlikely. "Influences" traveling backward in time is another thing entirely, since influences are not matter in themselves. I never thought of it like that so I was trying to understand where you are coming from.

An Influence (definition) is anything that can be translocated. Matter can be an influence, as Well as Forces (e.g gravity, electro magnetism etc). Personally I have difficulty distinguishing between Massive matter and Forces. What gives matter it's corporeality, is it not the strong and weak nuclear forces? The extent of a body is due to the forces it emits. It's hardness is a matter of force, it's softness is a matter of force, it's structure is a matter of force. Matter is a matter of force.

From Klein's theory in the 1920s we know the 5th dimension is compacted to the order of 10^-33 cm so it is mostly unobservable to us. And we know the superstring theory requires a dimension of 10 and above to make sense. This means we have to compactify the intermediate 4 dimensions in between to fit the gap. Ergo the recent "Bulk theory" (Gia Dvali, Arkani-Hamed Nima and Dimopoulos Savas) which says that reality is made up of two membranes and "we" are clinging to one membrane while there is a large gap of bulk compacted dimensions between "us" and the "other membrane". If this bulk of extra dimensions actually exist, then we should have unexplained missing energies as gravitons seep into higher realms and neutrinos escape into the bulk gap. Discovering the Higgs Boson in 2012 gave even more weight to this idea's possible correctness.

You've gone above my head here. I'll have to do some more studying before I can respond knowledgeably to the above.

Ganjafama:
It was even God who brought up the issue of job just to ridicule satan. What an insecure god.

seriously look who's talking.....God was confident that job believe in him.....u tink there is no God...bt I knw there is someone there,even if his real name isn't God maybe YAHWEH

profftrojahn:
seriously look who's talking.....God was confident that job believe in him.....u tink there is no God...bt I knw there is someone there,even if his real name isn't God maybe YAHWEH

Truth of the matter is that Satan is actually the good guy and your yahweh the bad guy. Satan never committed any evil in the Bible. But your yahweh is a blood thirsty demon.

Ganjafama:
Truth of the matter is that Satan is actually the good guy and your yahweh the bad guy. Satan never committed any evil in the Bible. But your yahweh is a blood thirsty demon.

be careful with wat u say.....for it may not do thou any good......

A World Without Christianity !!!

Having thoroughly enjoyed the diversity of opinions presented by the OP and its contributors, I am pleased to see a Generation of True Intellectuals seeking true knowledge.
However, we have failed to address the crocks of the matter, which I think emanates from this wise saying that "when the purpose of a thing is not known, abuse is inevitable". Question is what is the Purpose of Christianity and What does it seek to address?
Christianity from my own experience, stands upon the pillars of Fear, Authority and Conscientiousness. These are the main issues I think the OP, by choice or omission, didn't address. And if I may ask, now that you have found your footing outside Christianity is your life now PERFECT? Before you begin to tell people about your story did you do your research comprehensive enough to think of the possible impact your transition from Pastorship to becoming unbeliever? Anyway am not impressed but depressed by the one-sidedness of the"discoveries" you made along your journey.
For example, the hypnotic ministrations you made mention of is two-way communication which can be used for either good or bad reasons. Also the issue of magic, there's white and black variant. Some which involves simple concentration techniques that are sometimes triggered during intense atmospheres e.g. fasting and praying! Please don't get me wrong, I will not attempt to over-simplify the intent of Christian Leaders, but to judge centuries life-long doctrines by present day standards is only begging the issue.

Today not every Christian believe in Miracles or even Spirituality itself, but if any Religion teaches me to repent of my something wrong, ask God for forgiveness and never go back to it, it's saving me from myself and making the world a safe place. Bible teachings tell us we are of sinful nature, if this is not true, why do we have Laws, Codes and Conduct. Even today, we know where there's no law, there is chaos and dis-order. No Law means, "an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, and the World goes blind".
The reason you and I are having a great conversation is because, some people have chosen to embrace"Love" not war just like the Bible as recommends, not because am a Christian, she is Atheist or that guy is a Muslim or Hindu.

Today, there are several Satanists who know a lot about these whole hypnosis and witchcraft etc. but have chosen to look past it and become Christians, and from there own summations even believe Jesus Christ is real, and even seek him to protect them. Do your research? Have an "open mind", nobody knows "everything". No Religion addresses every issue in one voice, there is a different approach to everything. I have Islamist within my family, and trust me, they do attack us like we do also. But guess what? they do not have all the answers either. Love is the only thing that binds us together, not whether God exists or not. But whether Christ was gay and all of that, isn't all you there is to know.

Let's deal with those things that things that bring us together first then, later we deal with our differences. Broadcasting platforms like this should be used for that, sensitive information like this can raise questions our History or Science didn't provide answers for. Further confusion about certain things would not help anyone anyway, so why start in the first place?

Christianity has assisted people in getting vocations, jobs, accommodation and financial opportunities, why?, because that's what Bible preach and encourages those who do. I have contributed to helping others, as much as I have benefited.
Don't use those who use their ministry for solely profit to generalise the truth about Christianity.
Love is not legislated under any law, Christianity does! Islam I know of does as well. But how and whether you choose to apply it is all up to you.

And back to the OP, you claim you know everything about the Bible, and because we're a soul-winner, nobody can preach you? Please think again, wisdom is knowing the difference between what you actually know and what you think you know. Thanks!

HardMirror:
CONTINUATION...
CURIORITY and DARING TO QUESTION GOD

The christian God is regarded as a FATHER NOT a SLAVE MASTER.
I took God as my father. I discuss anything and everything with him. He was a friend I loved so much. We had a one on one relationship.
This meant I could ask God any question
I am a practical person, I don't just hear the word, I do the word.
People in the bible had chats with God and He is my father and friend so why should I not ask God questions and why should he not answer?
So ask God sincere questions

1. My Number one problem: We are to preach to all nations and make sure people don't perish
I and many christians I know were trying our absolute best to depopulate hell as fast as possible. To make sure people don't just hear the word BUT they actually get saved.
Someone asked why I pray for at least 12hours. It was because of the burden I carried. The burden of soul winning. It was terrifying that many were going to end up in hell and burn forever! if you are a christian and you believe people will end up in hell and you don't preach and try to win souls everyday YOU ARE WORSE THAN BOKO HARAM. FACT!
How can you have peace of mind and sleep at night knowing you hold the secret to eternal life in your hands and you are comfortable? How dear you buy luxuries when you can put that money into soul winning? How can you be asking God for more money, when you should pick up your bag and preach. How can you be asking God to pick up your call so you too can drive Range Rover?
It started becoming apparent that even God was a wicked God. Why?

-so he is all loving, loves humanity more than any man could ever love another man. More than an earthly father would love his son. YET God would let people perish in hell for even telling a lie no matter why you tell the lie or how small it is?


- so the best a God can do is to send humans to preach His word?

Oh wait! Seems you don't understand Jesus died in Jerusalem for the sins of the WHOLE world and If anyone dies without christ he was going to end in Hell. Wait! Do you know how many People would have died in Africa, South America, Australia, China, India, europe, before the Gospel reached them? Do you know how many people die per day?

So all these people will go to hell? The clever answer will be NO, the won't go to hell because they did not know. Oh! So if they won't go to hell because they were ignorant, why preach the gospel to them and make them informed and now if they die with the tiniest of sin without christ they end in hell. Why not leave them ignorant so their souls can be saved based on their ignorance.

How long did it take for the gospel of christ to reach the whole world? Is god truely the God of the whole world or of Jews?

It did not just add up.
This whole gospel thing started to crumble the more I thought of it.

That is just a tip of the questions I began to ask God. Of course he had no answer. The same God that reveals other peoples issues to me could not answer this.

It is true when people say Satan is powerful but lack salvation for mankind.

I have been patient reading through to know why you eventually turned to atheism in spite of all you claim God did through you.

My questions are:

Who gave you the spiritual gifts you claim you had?

If it was God, why do you now believe the same God is no more existing?

Where did you find in the Bible that the ignorant about Jesus Christ will escape hell because they are not informed? For the Bible says: "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law"(Romans 2:12).

HardMirror:
Remember this is a true life story, everything I say here is the absolute truth, only thing I have not revealed is my name, because I am still a legend in Anglican student fellowship till date, not just in futa but the whole state as I once held a state executive position.

I got to the room where she was (the president's room) there were 3 people praying for this sister. She was wringling on the floor like worm with salt poured on it. The prayer warriors were sweating and visibly tired. I got there sat down and bent over to hold her hands. Immediately I held her hand, she started screaming, but was still crying. She was behaving like someone with the spirit of pyton in her.
I started speaking in tongues. For about 30mins she was still wringling.
I shock her up, asked everybody to stop praying.
I commanded her to stop and open her eyes.
She obeyed. I asked her to seat on the other chair in the room. I could see surprise in her eyes. I repeated my instruction and she obey.
I told her whoever the spirit sets free is free indeed and God has told me she was free. That no matter what she tot, she is already free. I asked everyone to start praising God.

Now this case was peculiar. Why? I learnt something key that day. Once a human sees you as superhuman, they believe anything you tell them and people can be overwhelmed by the presences or words of people they think are directly linked with God.
If I kept praying she would have kept twisting on the floor. But I commanded the nonesense to stop and it stopped. This is not very far from how hypnotism works.
Your subject has to be highly impressionable.
This is most likely what TB joshua knows. Once you see him as an ordinary human, his words won't have any effect on you. But the moment you buy into the whole facade and open your mind to be impressionable, you will end up responding to everything such a man says and end up misbehaving

hmmm

Quite revealing.

viickerz:
@hardmirror, please mention me anytime you update this story.!
Funny thing tho, im in the church right now, reading this, im just laughing at the pastors words..
All the dude is saying is 'donate to the house of God'

just cant wait to get home and drink garri, sleep and play video games....
#i just caught my dad dozing in the service .. Lol.. And he was the one that was clamouring abt church..

lol

Broda all I see is a confused fellow if u are really sure of ur self u would hit d nail on d head rather than given us a lengthy talk and beating around d Bush pls Wen ur sure of ur self or bold enough to tell us wat actually made u become an atheist u could come back on here and continue am not critizing u thank God e gave us free will so bro u free to chose any side but before u come here and seek new convert be sure of ur self,, cos if u are u should be bold enough to actually state d fact and d reason,, wish u well in ur new found faith!!!

wirinet:


That is where you got it wrong. Nairaland has changed many peoples religious beliefs, many people have abandoned religion altogether because of Nairaland, including the founder - Seun. Nairaland provides avenue for people to come out of the closet and question religious dogma they have been indoctrinated with since childhood.

Absolutely right.

SHALOM!

HardMirror:
Hello,
I am sorry I won't be able to reveal me real name. But every other detail I give are absolutely genuine.

I'm sorry- but I stopped reading your bullshit after you said that.

Get a life.

If you were for real, you would go out-of-your-way to PROVE your IDENTITY, the location of the Church where you preached...

I don't have the time to waste.

oaroloye:
SHALOM!



I'm sorry- but I stopped reading your bullshit after you said that.

Get a life.

If you were for real, you would go out-of-your-way to PROVE your IDENTITY, the location of the Church where you preached...

I don't have the time to waste.

Your problem.

[size=17pt].. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [/size][size=15pt]. Though I did not read your story all through, but the little I read, I will give it to you, you are a good Orator, and Thank God you were used mightily By God as you claim.
This is where a lot of Young Christians get it wrong, You use all your Christian days to pursue Power and anointing, still you don't understand the Love of God. That is why in that last days,many will come before his throne claiming to have raise up the dead in Jesus name, but still he will tell them, I don't know you. You need to know God really not his power and authority. This is the basis of strong Christian faith.
Moreover,if you don't belief in God, why did you believe in shame(the fear of your old converts knowing who you really are now...you beleif that there disappointment in you will be so real when it hits you). You should believe that one day Death will catch up to you, then you will know what you shall become. [/size]

homeboy205:



Will a soul come back to existence, because one way or the other I always felt I've been In this world before when something just happened like it has happened before... You know De ja vu

Life is progressive and in stages. To a baby in the womb life is all about the womb. The womb is their world and nothing exist outside it But
here we are in another world and a different stage of life. To some of us life is all about this place. Once we exit here nothing more. Such people will exit and face another stage of life. Then it will dawn on them that they were actually wrong.

Hargbo:
[size=17pt].. Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [/size][size=15pt]. Though I did not read your story all through, but the little I read, I will give it to you, you are a good Orator, and Thank God you were used mightily By God as you claim.
This is where a lot of Young Christians get it wrong, You use all your Christian days to pursue Power and anointing, still you don't understand the Love of God. That is why in that last days,many will come before his throne claiming to have raise up the dead in Jesus name, but still he will tell them, I don't know you. You need to know God really not his power and authority. This is the basis of strong Christian faith.
Moreover,if you don't belief in God, why did you believe in shame(the fear of your old converts knowing who you really are now...you beleif that there disappointment in you will be so real when it hits you). You should believe that one day Death will catch up to you, then you will know what you shall become. [/size]

Very true. I recall how many were seeking power. How many came to me saying they wanted power, they want to do exploits for God. Towards the end of my christian life, I dropped all that, stopped ministering to people. Changed church and started attending Life Oasis. Made Pastor Charlse my pastor, submitted my self to learn and just be a christian. 2 years from then I only ended up more convinced of christianity being a creation for political manipulation and it has grown into many facets today. Christianity has its benefits, but it still remains a fabrication of man

I dont think you really knew God..... nd if you did, you are not the first to fall.... .. .. using logical reasonings in the search for my God can make a man lost completely

Hardmirror.... . He really loves you.. Come back home..... Repent

PastorAIO:

You've gone above my head here. I'll have to do some more studying before I can respond knowledgeably to the above.

Don't bother. Quantum physics is basically nonsense.

gaelllic:




Don't bother. Quantum physics is basically nonsense.

The truth is is Christianity (God, Christ, the gospel) is one of the many grounds in this mysterious world...regardless of what my Christian brothers and sisters feel.

The deeper truth however is that of the many grounds, Christ is the only solid ground...

It's a rock, all others (no matter how sweet and appealing) are sinking sands...

I don't have any right to judge anyone...

This is only my belief, my hope.

Slowride check ur inbox