Ubenedictus:
Because d bini stool begot d ife stool, and if i understand correctly d oonis are descendants of oramiyan which makes bini an elder brother as eweka is d eldest of oramiyans descendants. father and elder brother.

How can a grandson beget his grandfather use your head. this type of talk could have gotten you killed 300 years ago

Oranmiyan isnt represented by the Ooni, Take that up with the Alaafin. .if you can take Oyo on.
But Ooni is more concerned with Oduduwa


father

macof:


really? Bini and self delusions

Benin kingdom is dead, incorporated into Edo state

If we are to talk about existing kingdoms we talk of Morocco, Denmark, Netherlands, Swaziland

I took the liberty to get you a full list of Kingdoms in the world
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0775675.html

as you can see, Benin is only a city. .controlled by Edo state government not a kingdom

the places mentioned how are they referred? am not from Bini but ask them and see their response.

The throne of the Oba of Benin is not to be compared with any in this country. You don't compete for it, your money cannot buy it, your good deeds will not make you have it, No government can make you an Oba, it is divine, you have to be a descendant of Ekhaladehran. I am shocked that a yoruba boy here is saying Ekhaladehran never existed in our history....go to okada and see schools named after him that has been existing. Infact, when the sky looks like it wants to rain and yet there is little light, we refer to it as Ede Ekhaladerhan....meaning the Day of Ekhaladehran. The day of Ekhaladehran is the day he was supposed to be killed. We the Edos would rather have an empty seat and stool than have someone who is not the son of an oba sit on the throne. It is forbiden, it is a taboo. Just as we had to wait for Eweka 1 to take back the throne of his ancestors, and we repeated the same scene when Eweka 11 did same after the british invasion....Nobody can sit on that throne. Please I beg all these yoruba pple here trying to cause trouble, leave us alone. Leave our king alone, go and worry about the fulanis in illorin.....I use ogunoba to beg you pple....dnt come here to post trash....

MrPresident1:
When they are through with all the rights in Benin, Omonoba son of Oba must first visit Ile-Ife, the ancestral and spiritual home of his forebears to pay homage to the chief priest of Oduduwa, the Ooni.

When he is through with Ile-Ife, he will now visit Oyo, to greet the Alaafin.

Sorry my dear, born kings of benin dont visit politicians.

2dugged:
hehehehe, yorubas have it all, from backstabbing, to eye service, to slimmy and corky, and now to spreading of fables just to feel good about themselves, we Binis know exactly who we are and all those stupid fables have been proven to be all lies with glaring facts, so afonja and all those waiting to see the oba of Benin in Ile ife, una go wait tire, the oba will be crowned and the sky will not fall, and he will do so with any worthless visit to the afonjas, get that into your thick skulls you and your eye service afonjas on this thread

The funny thing is that their throne-seeking behaviour is so desperate.
Anywhere, they see organization, they try to claim.
Who hear go think say Ife na empire or kingdom wey give birth to benin kingdom.

Leave them jor, yeye dey smell

macof:



You cannot know more about Ife or how oduduwa became king better than Ife and the entire yoruba tradition institutions

I'm not saying this to insult or hurt the pride of Binis. ..I admire Bini and the General Yoruba people see Binis as brothers
But for the reason of not distorting history I need to make certain things clear

1. Ekaladerhan has never in any Yoruba tradition been connected to oduduwa, infact Ekaladerhan is unknown outside Bini and it's environs. The urhobo don't know him, the Esan don't know him
this whole Ekaladerhan episode began with the late oba of Benin. .the hostility between bini royal house against Yorubas started with Oba Akenzua.. I hope the new Oba can set things straight and not follow that path

2. In Ife, a prince elected by the kingmakers must journey to Oke-Ora to collect the crown of oduduwa ( although this is a quick made counterfeit with leafs and wood as the original is in the possession of the Owa of Idanre). The original crown of oduduwa was taken by his younger brother Aremitan when he left Ife after the death of oduduwa, at that time there was pressure from the family of Obatala which later usurped the throne.

So the story of oduduwa, although not known by many is still intact and known, you only have to reach out to the right sources
so how come oduduwa had a brother if he was Ekaladerhan? How come oduduwa had a crown if he was Ekaladerhan? Ekaladerhan wasn't said to have left Igodomigodo with a crown
Bini certainly don't know this, listening to many of you binis that I have encountered trying to connect to Ekaladerhan, you only bank on the ignorance of the majority of yorubas on their history. .. most of these things are only open to those who are initiated to the traditional cults. .and today because of foreign religions and colonial mentality people see that as evil, and run away from it, thereby running away from knowledge.. you binis also are ignorant of oduduwa, because you are not yoruba, not much about oduduwa was taken to bini so you Listen to pseudo historians who say things like oduduwa came from mecca etc and things like oduduwa came from the east (although true Oke-Ora is at the eastern outskirts of Ife towards Ijesa but our father didn't come from Bini area) and want to make benefits out of that.
If more about oduduwa hadn't been a Awo (initiation matter/mystery), you wouldn't get the chance to take this Ekaladerhan story this far

You see, I do not really have much time to write this morning. Well, each tribe writes its history according what history passes down from its ancestors. How many people even know their own history, let alone the history of Benin? Would you know the name of the Oba ruling in Benin as late as 1853? I know without Google you will not. But Eleko Akintoye ruling Lagos in 1853 made it clear to the British that Oba of Benin had authority over Lagos. It is documented. Ignorance of an individual or individuals is not equal to absence of knowledge out there. You have to be actively seeking it.

Moreover, the Esan, Urhobo or Etsako etc of today did not even exist as they are now. Except perhaps unknown aboriginal people they might have met where they are now (if applicable), the tribes were yet to migrate from Benin at that time. After migration, they forged/formed their own identities there despite acknowledging Oba of Benin as overlord and indeed their rulers were either Benin princes or people selected/approved by Oba of Benin. So those tribes are not the custodians or preservers of Benin history.

To be continued.
You made several false assertions: I know this is based on your limited information & bandwagon effect.

One is that it was Oba Erediauwa who began Ekaladerhan story, as a kid, I still met many very old people alive who, if still alive now would be around 150 years old. The story they told us under the moonlight were not much different.
Moreover, A short History of Benin was first published by Chief Dr J. U. Egharevba in 1933. Oba Eweka II personally reviewed each and every part of it. The Crown prince then (who later became Oba Akenzua II and father Oba Erediauwa) read the whole manuscript to him for correction, etc.
So how can history reviewed by the grandfather of Oba Eradiauwa suddenly have been invented by Eradiauwa?

You also claim that Benin people since they are not Yoruba cannot know Yoruba stuff. FYI, I am even partly a descendant of a major Yoruba royal family. And in my part of Edo, most people are still bilingual (Benin/Yoruba dialect) as products of Benin Imperial times in Eastern Yorubaland.
We certainly do not need extra initiation into a Yoruba cult like Aro & several others. As long as you have been initiated you have the "codes" . We still have them. Though most do not bother due to Abrahamic religions. This will surprise you I am sure.

As for the crown, remember that crowns can be made. And it can be given mythical standing to elevate the power of the king. Like Ashanti royal golden stool dropping directly from heaven. Very convenient, considering that the earth in the area was awash with gold.

I do not think that Olu of Warri still uses the crown Prince Ginuwa took away from Benin or Eleko/Oba of Lagos still uses the Crown given to Asipa from Benin.

I am more interested in the truth of the matter. I have even suggested that Benin & Ife royal houses conduct joint DNA studies, that can be used to trace ancestry. Even my humble self who has both Benin & Yoruba royal origins would happily take part in such studies.

That should sort it out once & far all.

felixomor:

The funny thing is that their throne-seeking behaviour is so desperate. Anywhere, they see organization, they try to claim. Who hear go think say Ife na empire or kingdom wey give birth to benin kingdom.
Leave them jor, yeye dey smell

nor mind them

AreaFada2:


You see, I do not really have much time to write this morning. Well, each tribe writes its history according what history passes down from its ancestors. How many people even know their own history, let alone the history of Benin? Would you know the name of the Oba ruling in Benin as late as 1853? I know without Google you will not. But Eleko Akintoye ruling Lagos in 1853 made it clear to the British that Oba of Benin had authority over Lagos. It is documented. Ignorance of an individual or individuals is not equal to absence of knowledge out there. You have to be actively seeking it.

that's the point! many people are do ignorant of their own history. .it's killing Nigerians. . most people believe anything (the first thing) they read from any book or online article without meeting an elderly person(Traditional minded person) to confirm

as for Eleko and Bini, I grew up befriending people from the old families of lagos and although they claim Muslim they are still very traditional. It seems not all of Lagos was a bini colony. There was a part founded by Bini warriors which couldn't extend too far into Awori farmland before the Awori invited Ado to come and be settling disputes between the Idejo (land owners of lagos)...till today the Eleko calls Aromire (one of the Idejo) Onile (owner of the land)
The thing is Bini have over emphasized the Bini contributions to Lagos, not realizing that the Bini dynasty started out like what we have in Lagos and the same way Bini are excited to announce "we founded lagos" Yoruba can also claim 'we founded Bini'

what are the connections?
1. A prince invited to settle political crises (Oranmiyan and Ashipa/Ado)
2. The prince left his son in charge and returned home. .(Eweka I and Ado)
3. the chiefs still owned the land above him

not until the sell of land by Ogiamien to Ewedo, and his harsh rules to the Edionisen ( now Uzama chiefs ) the Oba of Benin had his limits like the Eleko.


which brings me to another point to debunk the Ekaladerhan - oduduwa claim
If the Obas are descendants of the Ogiso, Ogiamien will not need to sell their father's land to them during every coronation. Ogiamien family will not even have held authority in Benin from Oranmiyan's time in Benin till Oba Ewedo - 4 generations later. You do know that Oranmiyan up until the time Oba Ewedo acquired the land from Ogiamien, the Obas only ruled Uselu - founded by Oranmiyan - while Ogiamien ruled the main parts of Benin called Igodomigodo?

Moreover, the Esan, Urhobo or Etsako etc of today did not even exist as they are now. Except perhaps unknown aboriginal people they might have met where they are now (if applicable), the tribes were yet to migrate from Benin at that time. After migration, they forged/formed their own identities there despite acknowledging Oba of Benin as overlord and indeed their rulers were either Benin princes or people selected/approved by Oba of Benin. So those tribes are not the custodians or preservers of Benin history.

Whether They existed as they do now or not is not as important as the fact that they came from Bini or at least have close ties with bini but don't know Ekaladerhan. ..only Bini know Ekaladerhan but they know Oduduwa, they know the Ogiso.

which points that this Ekaladerhan is unknown

if I talk of Obamakin, I say he took over oduduwa's throne. .. You can verify in many places. . but when you say Ekaladerhan is oduduwa you cannot verify this ..and the easiest way to verify tales like this is when it's not only you that says it
how can oduduwa come from Benin and Benin are the only ones that know? How did they know he was in Ife? how come he never showed reverence for Benin? how come he wasn't buried in Benin or any part of his body taken to Benin? how come the coronation of ooni doesn't reenact any connection to your Ekaladerhan story? how come Ooni has no influence from Bini or any of the Art historians ever found any reference to Oba of Benin? but the reference to Ife and even European records speak of the Oba of Benin's reverence for the Ooni.


should I remind you that the Oba of Benin has an Oriki? oriki is not Edo culture but yoruba. .and only the Oba of Benin has an Oriki in Edo area, he is also the only one called "Oba". .Oba is not an Edo word

In the Oba’s oriki, he is called Leopard of the House, Son of oduduwa of Ife, son of Adimula(Adimula is Oduduwa's name - He was called Olofin Adimula - meaning something like Emperor Adimula), the name of the oba’s father will also be added ie. son of Akenzua, son of Erediauwa etc

nowhere is he called son of Ekaladerhan!
please if I lie expose me!

One is that it was Oba Erediauwa who began Ekaladerhan story, as a kid, I still met many very old people alive who, if still alive now would be around 150 years old. The story they told us under the moonlight were not much different.
Moreover, A short History of Benin was first published by Chief Dr J. U. Egharevba in 1933. Oba Eweka II personally reviewed each and every part of it. The Crown prince then (who later became Oba Akenzua II and father Oba Erediauwa) read the whole manuscript to him for correction, etc.
So how can history reviewed by the grandfather of Oba Eradiauwa suddenly have been invented by Eradiauwa?

That book didn't claim Ekaladerhan to be oduduwa. what page did you read that?

You also claim that Benin people since they are not Yoruba cannot know Yoruba stuff. FYI, I am even partly a descendant of a major Yoruba royal family. And in my part of Edo, most people are still bilingual (Benin/Yoruba dialect) as products of Benin Imperial times in Eastern Yorubaland.
We certainly do not need extra initiation into a Yoruba cult like Aro & several others. As long as you have been initiated you have the "codes" . We still have them. Though most do not bother due to Abrahamic religions. This will surprise you I am sure.

As for the crown, remember that crowns can be made. And it can be given mythical standing to elevate the power of the king. Like Ashanti royal golden stool dropping directly from heaven. Very convenient, considering that the earth in the area was awash with gold.

I do not think that Olu of Warri still uses the crown Prince Ginuwa took away from Benin or Eleko/Oba of Lagos still uses the Crown given to Asipa from Benin.

I am more interested in the truth of the matter. I have even suggested that Benin & Ife royal houses conduct joint DNA studies, that can be used to trace ancestry. Even my humble self who has both Benin & Yoruba royal origins would happily take part in such studies.

That should sort it out once & far all.

having yoruba grandmother or mother doesn't mean anything, infact having a yoruba father doesn't mean you are yoruba. .. I say this all the time. belonging to an ethnicity, a culture is a spiritual thing, you must have it from the soul.

We can acknowledge our ancestry, our origins but that doesn't make us what our father is or what our ancestors were

Also being from a yoruba and Benin royal family doesn't mean a thing. .. how many people from royal families know their history? do you even know the history of the yoruba family you have links with?


if you are interested in the truth, you will make efforts to confirm what tradition say about oduduwa .. not what you want to believe because of the "Edo Pride"

There this guy comes again, spewing rubbish from his mouth. There are so many kings in yoruba land why don't you just learn to talk about them and stop poking your nose in stuffs that do not concern you. Since when did you become the custodian of Edo history, you probably have not even entered the palace of HIM the Oba of Benin you are spewing rubbish. I am frm Edo, I live in Edo land and don't come here and tell pple rubbish. Just because the west had the oppurtunity of being the most educated in early years you guys wrote rubbish about us and filled them in your library. Speaking about kingship, what you should know is that we the edos have it, we are able to establish it wherever we go that is why when Ekhaladehran got to Ife, he established it firmly. He came from a royal house, he knew what it meant to keep a royal house. Before the arrival of Ekhaladehran(oduduwa) which yoruba community had an institutionalized monarchy? The answer is none, now see wherever a Benin prince went to and establishes a throne amongst the locals, that throne always survives, because he has been taught what it means to make the throne as gold before the eyes of his people. We are not claiming lagos...but see what a Benin prince did there, the monarchy still stands, see what we did in Warri, all over delta state we have princes from benin as founding fathers of dynasties upon dynasties. If its not a Benin prince, it is a benin chief....and that is what we did in ife, we gave ife a strong monarchy. Go to places in Ekiti they will tell you same thing, how benin princes came to establish stools amongs. Locals....we had over 30 ogisos. One thing we edos will never deny is that, the mother of Prince Oromiyan is a yoruba woman, but his father is an Edo prince who never became king as he himself also never became king in Benin.

macof:
that's the point! many people are do ignorant of their own history. .it's killing Nigerians. . most people believe anything (the first thing) they read from any book or online article without meeting an elderly person(Traditional minded person) to confirm

as for Eleko and Bini, I grew up befriending people from the old families of lagos and although they claim Muslim they are still very traditional. It seems not all of Lagos was a bini colony. There was a part founded by Bini warriors which couldn't extend too far into Awori farmland before the Awori invited Ado to come and be settling disputes between the Idejo (land owners of lagos)...till today the Eleko calls Aromire (one of the Idejo) Onile (owner of the land)
The thing is Bini have over emphasized the Bini contributions to Lagos, not realizing that the Bini dynasty started out like what we have in Lagos and the same way Bini are excited to announce "we founded lagos" Yoruba can also claim 'we founded Bini'

what are the connections?
1. A prince invited to settle political crises (Oranmiyan and Ashipa/Ado)
2. The prince left his son in charge and returned home. .(Eweka I and Ado)
3. the chiefs still owned the land above him

not until the sell of land by Ogiamien to Ewedo, and his harsh rules to the Edionisen ( now Uzama chiefs ) the Oba of Benin had his limits like the Eleko.


which brings me to another point to debunk the Ekaladerhan - oduduwa claim
If the Obas are descendants of the Ogiso, Ogiamien will not need to sell their father's land to them during every coronation. Ogiamien family will not even have held authority in Benin from Oranmiyan's time in Benin till Oba Ewedo - 4 generations later. You do know that Oranmiyan up until the time Oba Ewedo acquired the land from Ogiamien, the Obas only ruled Uselu - founded by Oranmiyan - while Ogiamien ruled the main parts of Benin called Igodomigodo?











Whether They existed as they do now or not is not as important as the fact that they came from Bini or at least have close ties with bini but don't know Ekaladerhan. ..only Bini know Ekaladerhan but they know Oduduwa, they know the Ogiso.

which points that this Ekaladerhan is unknown

if I talk of Obamakin, I say he took over oduduwa's throne. .. You can verify in many places. . but when you say Ekaladerhan is oduduwa you cannot verify this ..and the easiest way to verify tales like this is when it's not only you that says it
how can oduduwa come from Benin and Benin are the only ones that know? How did they know he was in Ife? how come he never showed reverence for Benin? how come he wasn't buried in Benin or any part of his body taken to Benin? how come the coronation of ooni doesn't reenact any connection to your Ekaladerhan story? how come Ooni has no influence from Bini or any of the Art historians ever found any reference to Oba of Benin? but the reference to Ife and even European records speak of the Oba of Benin's reverence for the Ooni.


should I remind you that the Oba of Benin has an Oriki? oriki is not Edo culture but yoruba. .and only the Oba of Benin has an Oriki in Edo area, he is also the only one called "Oba". .Oba is not an Edo word

In the Oba’s oriki, he is called Leopard of the House, Son of oduduwa of Ife, son of Adimula(Adimula is Oduduwa's name - He was called Olofin Adimula - meaning something like Emperor Adimula), the name of the oba’s father will also be added ie. son of Akenzua, son of Erediauwa etc

nowhere is he called son of Ekaladerhan!
please if I lie expose me!


That book didn't claim Ekaladerhan to be oduduwa. what page did you read that?






having yoruba grandmother or mother doesn't mean anything, infact having a yoruba father doesn't mean you are yoruba. .. I say this all the time. belonging to an ethnicity, a culture is a spiritual thing, you must have it from the soul.

We can acknowledge our ancestry, our origins but that doesn't make us what our father is or what our ancestors were

Also being from a yoruba and Benin royal family doesn't mean a thing. .. how many people from royal families know their history? do you even know the history of the yoruba family you have links with?


if you are interested in the truth, you will make efforts to confirm what tradition say about oduduwa .. not what you want to believe because of the "Edo Pride"

You made some points, some salient, others very subjective & others mere conjecture.
That you think some people "genuine Yoruba with the spiritual aspect" and others "fake Yoruba" is your opinion. To which you are entitled. What matters is that people explore their identy/ies by themselves and can live happily with it.

But generally, the clamour for share of national cake & political influence by every hamlet, tribe and ethnic nationality has made everything a game of numbers.

If your tribe cannot determine the outcome of a national election, one can now trample on your tribe & history without batting an eyelid. Irrespective of how enthusiastically that history is celebrated in museums across the world. I have no illusion about the Nigerian reality.

Now to oriki. Literally every Benin person has an oriki. And Benin people have an ancient word for it too. Your oriki is that of your ancestral lineage. It is basically a praise poem, extolling your ancestors, their origins, royalty, nobility or exploits, etc.
If I greeted an elderly woman around 27 years ago in the morning, like any other descendant of Eweka I, the oriki she would call me is pretty much similar to Oba's own, with the difference that I will be called "son of" his majesty, home leopard, the spotless white bird from Ife/Uhe, Umogun, and many more...depending on the knowledge & creativity of the said elderly woman.

In the morning Benin people do not greet good morning/hello/ekaro to elders. Your greeting depends on your ancestry. A man of 80 sitting in his verandahin in Benin in the morning would be greeted by children and wives passing by thus:

Delaiso (Ogiso descendants & women married into the family)
Lamogun (Eweka I's descendants & their wives).
Lagiesan (Children/wives of Chief Ezomo/Commander of Imperial Army)
Lamosun (Children of Chief Ero who is Duke of Urubi/Keeper of North-Western City gate)
Delaihe (children of Elawure/Duke of Usen, a Yoruboid/Ado-Akure Town just about an hour from Benin)

And many more families.
Pretty much like bronze/brass commemorates events, ceremonies and more, your oriki reminds you every morning of your ancestry & history. And it is an ancient practice in Benin.

As for Oba, very funny to hear that it is not a Benin word. In philology, both Yoruba & Benin are termed East-Kwa Niger-Congo language family. Just like Igbo. If Igbo that branched out earlier from the tree still call their King Obi, how impossible is it that both Benin & Yoruba retained Oba from the "ur" or "stamm" language? Moreover, the Ogisos of Igodomigodo already used the title Oba-Godo, so what is the big deal?

Well, well, people always came up with this Idejo talk. That Eleko owns no land.

Now listen. To be a Benin person in those times meant making lots of sacrifice: war conscription, huge levies, abstinence from sex for even married couples & many more would be imposed by the King. So many migrated, with body tattoos and tribal marks used to check exit.

The point is Benin did not have a huge population to fight unnecessary wars. They had to be strategic, tactical, ruthless & efficient.

In Lagos, Benin needed to control areas with access to the sea & lagoon. It was expensive paying mercenaries, which Benin did a lot.

Why would Benin just be fighting endless wars deep into Awori country, with many more strategic/important wars to fight?? The Aworis that needed to be overcome were overcome to control the Eko of Lagos Island. But with documented battles at Iru area. Some do not rule out Oniru having Benin connections.

So even if Benin wanted to take over vast lands, it could not get the population to do so. There, sometimes installing stooges or own princes to pay tribute & maintain loyalty & create buffer zones against Oyo & Idah for example as happened in Northern Ekiti (Otun) & North of Edo.
As for the book by Egharevba, I read it several times as a kid, and memory seems vivid about Ekaladerhan.

Like I said, most people do not know their history, let alone Benin history. We really do not need other people to tell us our history. Everyone can tell his. It does not mean others will agree with you on it.

However, I salute your enthusiasm & interest in history. More people should do same.

As for selling land again to the Oba by Ogiamien, for a token, it has become part of tradition & coronation rites, like many that will happen in the 15 days the rites will take. He will for example symbolically climb a palm tree, to commemorate the suffering of an ancient crown prince centuries ago, who faced opposition before becoming king. Does this mean this crown prince really cannot feed himself without first harvesting palm fruits?
It is meant to further train the prince in humility and appreciate the efforts of his ancestors.

I was opportuned to have watched the 1978/79 Coronation ceremony on video(black nd white) some years back,trust me; it was da bomb!. Really wish i was back home to witness and if possible get some personal shots/clips of the coronation to atlest keep in my personal archive for my children and grand children to see how kings are made in Benin#proud of my root n culture#proudly Bini.

odigbosky:
There this guy comes again, spewing rubbish from his mouth. There are so many kings in yoruba land why don't you just learn to talk about them and stop poking your nose in stuffs that do not concern you. Since when did you become the custodian of Edo history, you probably have not even entered the palace of HIM the Oba of Benin you are spewing rubbish. I am frm Edo, I live in Edo land and don't come here and tell pple rubbish. Just because the west had the oppurtunity of being the most educated in early years you guys wrote rubbish about us and filled them in your library. Speaking about kingship, what you should know is that we the edos have it, we are able to establish it wherever we go that is why when Ekhaladehran got to Ife, he established it firmly. He came from a royal house, he knew what it meant to keep a royal house. Before the arrival of Ekhaladehran(oduduwa) which yoruba community had an institutionalized monarchy? The answer is none, now see wherever a Benin prince went to and establishes a throne amongst the locals, that throne always survives, because he has been taught what it means to make the throne as gold before the eyes of his people. We are not claiming lagos...but see what a Benin prince did there, the monarchy still stands, see what we did in Warri, all over delta state we have princes from benin as founding fathers of dynasties upon dynasties. If its not a Benin prince, it is a benin chief....and that is what we did in ife, we gave ife a strong monarchy. Go to places in Ekiti they will tell you same thing, how benin princes came to establish stools amongs. Locals....we had over 30 ogisos. One thing we edos will never deny is that, the mother of Prince Oromiyan is a yoruba woman, but his father is an Edo prince who never became king as he himself also never became king in Benin.

what is this one saying? You keep trying to force Ekaladerhan to places his personality doesn't fit. I should ask you if you are the custodian of Yoruba history because as far as the world is concerned nobody associates oduduwa with Edo except through his son. .. Oduduwa is strictly Yoruba and only the Yoruba can speak about his life and times cus frankly Edo don't know anything about him

address my points like the other guy is doing and at least make me learn something I don't know, that is of course if you have something to offer.

merely screaming Ekaladerhan is oduduwa without proof is akin to a cry of a mad man

AreaFada2:


You made some points, some salient, others very subjective & others mere conjecture.
That you think some people "genuine Yoruba with the spiritual aspect" and others "fake Yoruba" is your opinion. To which you are entitled. What matters is that people explore their identy/ies by themselves and can live happily with it.

But generally, the clamour for share of national cake & political influence by every hamlet, tribe and ethnic nationality has made everything a game of numbers.

If your tribe cannot determine the outcome of a national election, one can now trample on your tribe & history without batting an eyelid. Irrespective of how enthusiastically that history is celebrated in museums across the world. I have no illusion about the Nigerian reality.

Now to oriki. Literally every Benin person has an oriki. And Benin people have ancient word for it too. Your oriki is that of your ancestral lineage. It is basically a praise poem, extolling your ancestors, their origins, royalty, nobility or exploits, etc.
If I greeted an elderly woman around 27 years ago, ago in the morning, like any other descendant of Eweka I, the oriki she would call me is pretty much similar to Oba's own, with the difference that I will be called "son of" his majesty, home leopard, the spotless white bird from Ife/Uhe, Umogun, and many more...depending on the knowledge & creativity of the said elderly woman.

In the morning Benin people do not greet good morning/hello/ekaro to elders. Your greeting depends on your ancestry. A man of 80 sitting in his verandahin Benin in the morning would be greeted by children and wives thus:
Delaiso (Ogiso descendants & women married into the family)
Lamogun (Eweka I's descendants & thir wives).
Lagiesan (Children/wives of Chief Ezomo/Commander of Imperial Army)
Lamosun (Children of Chief Ero who is Duke of Urubi/Keeper of North-Western City gate)
Delaihe (children of Elawure (Duke of Usen, a Yoruboid/Ado-Akure Town just about an hour from Benin)

And many more families.
Pretty much like bronze/brass commemorate events, ceremonies and more, your oriki reminds you every morning of your ancestry & history. And it is an ancient practice in Benin.

As for Oba, very funny to hear that it is not a Benin Word. In philology, both Yoruba & Benin are termed East-Kwa Niger-Congo language family. Just like Igbo. If Igbo that branched out earlier from the tree still call their King Obi, how impossible is it that both Benin & Yoruba retained Oba from the "ur" or "stamm" language? Moreover, the Ogisos of Igodomigodo already used the title Oba-Godo, so what is the big deal?

Well, well, people always came up with this Idejo talk. That Eleko owns no land.
Now listen. To be a Benin person in those times meant making lots of sacrifice: war conscription, huge levies, abstinence from sex for even married couples & many more would be imposed by the King. So many migrated, with body tattoos and tribal marks used to check exit.
The point is Benin did not have a huge population to fight unnecessary wars. They had to be strategic, tactical, ruthless & efficient.
In Lagos, Benin needed to control areas with access to the sea & lagoon. It was expensive paying mercenaries, which Benin did a lot.

Why would Benin just be fighting endless wars deep into Awori country, with many more strategic/important wars to fight?? The Aworis that needed to be overcome were overcome to control the Eko of Lagos Island. But with documented battles at Iru area. Some do not rule out Oniru having Benin connections.

So even if Benin wanted to take over vast lands, it could not get the population to do so. There, sometimes installing stooges or own princes to pay tribute & maintain loyalty & create buffer zones against Oyo & Idah for example as happened in Northern Ekiti (Otun)& North of Edo.
As for the book by Egharevba, I read it several times as a kid, and memory seems vivid about Ekaladerhan.

Like I said, most people do not know their history, let alone Benin history. We really do not need other people to tell us our history. Everyone can tell his. It does not mean others will agree with you on it.

However, I salute your enthusiasm & interest in history. More people should do same.

As for selling land again to the Oba by Ogiamien Ogiamien a token, it has become part of tradition & coronation rites, like many that will happen in the 15 days the rites will take. He will for example symbolically climb a palm tree, to commemorate the suffering of an ancient crown prince centuries ago, who faced opposition before becoming king. Does this mean this crown prince really cannot feed himself without first harvesting palm fruits?
It is meant to further train the prince in humility and appreciate the efforts of his ancestors.

I didn't mean it like that o...I don't mean there's fake yoruba. the thing is some are born of Yoruba fathers but don't live their lives like a yoruba person, they disassociate themselves from tradition and yet these types are quick to jump into ethnic verbal battles. this happens all over africa and not just yoruba


I just want you to understand that given adequate evidence to back up this growing claim by Bini most yorubas won't have a problem with it, so it is not an anti-bini movement or something. that is in fact more acceptable than the more popular mecca claim.


But as it stands, more and more of the long held mystery over oduduwa is coming out and he is being linked strongly to Oke-Ora. you should take time to research that

AreaFada2:


The break between Ogiso era & post Ogiso era is where the famous Benin-Ife/Yoruba controversy stems from. It boils over from time to time.

Over the years, I have commented on them. They are still here to be seen.

To begin with, I am a Benin-Yoruba hybrid & clarity & truth in the matter is most important to me than one side striving to claim superiority.

Ogiso Owodo was the last Ogiso. The break came because there was no heir. This is called the interregnum period.

Prince Ekaladerhan was the heir to Owodo. But the Prince's step-mother called Esagho schemed to get him killed. Faking a message from an oracle priest, and claiming that only his death would avert disaster in Benin. Sadly & reluctantly Owodo accepted it, for the welfare of his Kingdom.

But the Isiewmenro (Royal Executioners) who took the prince to the forest to sacrifice could not bear to kill him. They made him swear an Oath never to return to Benin but run for his dear life. He did. He travelled towards Owo (70 miles due North-West of Benin). Then he moved towards a village now called Ife. Ife is also roughly 70 miles West of Owo. So he entered Ife from the East. A prediction Ife people had been given about a ruler coming from the East.

With time back in Benin, Esagho could not produce an heir as she had hoped. Owodo later got suspicious and sent other emissaries to the oraclist. That was when the scam was revealed. But it had become known that Ekaladerhan through divinity was in fact alive but he could not be traced in Owodo's life time. So the crown remained vacant. So Evian (now Ogiamien family) became ruler as the most powerful local chieftain of Igodomigodo (as Benin was called then) but NOT a King.

In the meantime, Ekaladerhan has found fortune in Ife & made king. He exclaimed that "Izoduwa" meaning I have been favoured/achieved my destiny. This became Ododuwa. A similar corruption of name would happen to Ododuwa's grandson in Benin two generations later. The exclamation "Owomika" in Youruba became Eweka I of Benin.

In fact my relative is the duke/chief of the ancient village (actually now part of Benin metropolis) where Eweka made that exclamation in About 1170 AD. In just over a week from now, The Crown Prince will be making a similar exclamation (at exactly same spot as 800 years ago) near my relative's ducal palace. That exclamation is what his Title & name will become for life.

And all his children and descendants will henceforth bear that name as surname. Except his first son who will chose his own regnal name when crowned in the future.

Ekaladerhan was known to be alive already so the search continued for decades. Until he was traced to Ife. He refused to return, having sworn an oath not to. But he sent his son "Omonoyan", basically meaning beloved child. What was called Oranmiyan by Ife people.

Oranmiyan was accompanied by yoruba courtiers including Oloton. Chief Oloton today remains in charge of Royal ancestral shrine. Oranmiyan's son Eweka I restored the monarchy in Ogiso line. Benin people were ready to keep the stool vacant for decades then, just like they did while Ovonramwen was in exile in Calabar for 17 years.

So Ife people came to be very welcome in Benin & seen as our relatives. Even after Oranmiyan left.

Now we all know Yoruba versions of Ododuwa: from coming from the Sky to coming from Mecca. Judge for yourself what is scientifically possible.

Idia was the mother of Oba Esigie. Esigie ruled from 1504 to 1550. Idia was the wife of Oba Ozolua. Both her husband and son go down in history as successful warrior Kings/emperors.

She was a warrior Queen Mother with her own Royal Regiment personally commanded by her at war front. She played a major role in helping Esigie expand the empire. Europeans even accompanied Esigie to wars in Eastern Yorubaland & extolled Benin war tactics including Ifianyako (encirclement) of enemy soldiers.

I enjoyed reading your input but as a learned person, you should have pin pointed errors in that tale & not bother to go any further with it.

-- Owo did not come into existence until about 14/15th century. How did Ekhaledahern journey to the 70 miles of a non-existent Owo around 10th C? .

-- This was roughly in the 10th century. There was no prior contact between Ife & Bini, towns/settlements were cut off from each other by thick forests & neither knew of the other's existence - reason Ife/Yoruba believe earth/life began in Ife. How could this man have headed to a place practically unknown to him & has never been before?

-- Bini language isn't Yoruba. There was a war between 'Elu' the fertile land settlers & the hill settlers which Oduduwa led & was able to convince some Elus to fight on his team. What was their medium of communication before, during & after the severe civil war? Please tell because Oranmiyan had communication problems in Bini & that was in recent times when Ife had opened up more. I wonder how Ekhalederhen didn't have language problem in the earliest times but the Oranmiyan from new era had.

-- And how did Bini know about Ife prophecy of someone coming from the East to have quickly woven it into their tale as some sort of spring board? Are you even aware the story of Oduduwa from the east was started by Muslims - proponents of the Mecca theory in the late 19th & early 20th century? The same group who also claimed Oranmiyan was journeying to this East to avenge his father (but his horse slipped & founded Oyo on the slip spot) and that there's a bound Quran Oduduwa brought from Mecca (just to islamize the throne systematically) I bet you all didn't know the basis of your story is that of religious fraud. Oduduwa did not come from any East, you may want to revisit your story & edit where necessary.

A quick interpretation of that Bini tale is that the only viable monarchy & country worth associating with was that of Ife & also there's the need to connect Bini to Ife throne in order to probably validate Oranmiyan to the Igodomigodo masses.

The two basis of Bini spin off:

- the east which was the idea of muslims.

- izoduwa & oduduwa both meaning different things.

Thank you.

Macof, keep up the good work bro.

AreaFada2:


You made some points, some salient, others very subjective & others mere conjecture.
That you think some people "genuine Yoruba with the spiritual aspect" and others "fake Yoruba" is your opinion. To which you are entitled. What matters is that people explore their identy/ies by themselves and can live happily with it.

But generally, the clamour for share of national cake & political influence by every hamlet, tribe and ethnic nationality has made everything a game of numbers.

If your tribe cannot determine the outcome of a national election, one can now trample on your tribe & history without batting an eyelid. Irrespective of how enthusiastically that history is celebrated in museums across the world. I have no illusion about the Nigerian reality.

Now to oriki. Literally every Benin person has an oriki. And Benin people have an ancient word for it too. Your oriki is that of your ancestral lineage. It is basically a praise poem, extolling your ancestors, their origins, royalty, nobility or exploits, etc.
If I greeted an elderly woman around 27 years ago in the morning, like any other descendant of Eweka I, the oriki she would call me is pretty much similar to Oba's own, with the difference that I will be called "son of" his majesty, home leopard, the spotless white bird from Ife/Uhe, Umogun, and many more...depending on the knowledge & creativity of the said elderly woman.

In the morning Benin people do not greet good morning/hello/ekaro to elders. Your greeting depends on your ancestry. A man of 80 sitting in his verandahin in Benin in the morning would be greeted by children and wives passing by thus:

Delaiso (Ogiso descendants & women married into the family)
Lamogun (Eweka I's descendants & their wives).
Lagiesan (Children/wives of Chief Ezomo/Commander of Imperial Army)
Lamosun (Children of Chief Ero who is Duke of Urubi/Keeper of North-Western City gate)
Delaihe (children of Elawure/Duke of Usen, a Yoruboid/Ado-Akure Town just about an hour from Benin)

And many more families.
Pretty much like bronze/brass commemorates events, ceremonies and more, your oriki reminds you every morning of your ancestry & history. And it is an ancient practice in Benin.

As for Oba, very funny to hear that it is not a Benin word. In philology, both Yoruba & Benin are termed East-Kwa Niger-Congo language family. Just like Igbo. If Igbo that branched out earlier from the tree still call their King Obi, how impossible is it that both Benin & Yoruba retained Oba from the "ur" or "stamm" language? Moreover, the Ogisos of Igodomigodo already used the title Oba-Godo, so what is the big deal?

Well, well, people always came up with this Idejo talk. That Eleko owns no land.

Now listen. To be a Benin person in those times meant making lots of sacrifice: war conscription, huge levies, abstinence from sex for even married couples & many more would be imposed by the King. So many migrated, with body tattoos and tribal marks used to check exit.

The point is Benin did not have a huge population to fight unnecessary wars. They had to be strategic, tactical, ruthless & efficient.

In Lagos, Benin needed to control areas with access to the sea & lagoon. It was expensive paying mercenaries, which Benin did a lot.

Why would Benin just be fighting endless wars deep into Awori country, with many more strategic/important wars to fight?? The Aworis that needed to be overcome were overcome to control the Eko of Lagos Island. But with documented battles at Iru area. Some do not rule out Oniru having Benin connections.

So even if Benin wanted to take over vast lands, it could not get the population to do so. There, sometimes installing stooges or own princes to pay tribute & maintain loyalty & create buffer zones against Oyo & Idah for example as happened in Northern Ekiti (Otun) & North of Edo.
As for the book by Egharevba, I read it several times as a kid, and memory seems vivid about Ekaladerhan.

Like I said, most people do not know their history, let alone Benin history. We really do not need other people to tell us our history. Everyone can tell his. It does not mean others will agree with you on it.

However, I salute your enthusiasm & interest in history. More people should do same.

As for selling land again to the Oba by Ogiamien, for a token, it has become part of tradition & coronation rites, like many that will happen in the 15 days the rites will take. He will for example symbolically climb a palm tree, to commemorate the suffering of an ancient crown prince centuries ago, who faced opposition before becoming king. Does this mean this crown prince really cannot feed himself without first harvesting palm fruits?
It is meant to further train the prince in humility and appreciate the efforts of his ancestors.

The Oba argument is straight forward. Let us look into the early kings/kingdoms these 3 groups had & the use of Oba.

Igbo & Obi/Oba: I believe the Igbo derived it from Bini as it was not in existence in the Nri or Ugbo Ukwu times.

Bini & Oba: was Oba used to refer to Ogiso kings or their subordinate chiefs? If yes, then Oba was probably a Bini word but if not, let us go further.

Ife & Oba: is Ooni an Oba? No. Are there anybodies called Oba way before Oduduwa & Oranmiyan? Yes. The actual heads of each 'Elu' hamlet that later became chief-kings ruling with Ooni (the present day Isooro) & each chief-king that ruled an 'Eku' under the 'Elu' chief-kings were all called Oba + a suffix e.g: Oba-rese, Oba-makin (now mahin), Oba-lase, Oba-loran, Oba-ilesun, Oba-ilale etc. A system Oduduwa later incorporated into naming his 6 'iwarefa' - Oba-lufe, Oba-ijio etc.

It is clear the origins of 'Oba' is from Ife & it is derived from Chief kings who originally owned the land but were conquered at some point. The Ooni, Alaafin & others should not be adding Oba to their titles or introduction, it is wrong & misleading. Ooni Ife, Ojaja II, Ogunwusi Tunde not Ooni Ife, Ojaja II, Oba Ogunwusi, the same way the Alaafin should be Alaafin Oyo, Adeyemi III, Lamidi Adeyemi. Oba as a term should be left for subordinate chiefs & Oba Bini, it is not royal enough.

Let me add that Oba of Bini was a recent term. Originally, during Oranmiyan's period downwards, he was referred to as 'Olu Bini' Olu of Bini not Oba.

It is like saying the term 'Owa' was originally an Ijesa term when we know that there were two Owas in Ife before Ilesa was founded. Owajesi & Owa Eredunmi. Like Oba, Owa is also a term for chiefs.

Thank you.

AreaFada2:


The break between Ogiso era & post Ogiso era is where the famous Benin-Ife/Yoruba controversy stems from. It boils over from time to time.

Over the years, I have commented on them. They are still here to be seen.

To begin with, I am a Benin-Yoruba hybrid & clarity & truth in the matter is most important to me than one side striving to claim superiority.

Ogiso Owodo was the last Ogiso. The break came because there was no heir. This is called the interregnum period.

Prince Ekaladerhan was the heir to Owodo. But the Prince's step-mother called Esagho schemed to get him killed. Faking a message from an oracle priest, and claiming that only his death would avert disaster in Benin. Sadly & reluctantly Owodo accepted it, for the welfare of his Kingdom.

But the Isiewmenro (Royal Executioners) who took the prince to the forest to sacrifice could not bear to kill him. They made him swear an Oath never to return to Benin but run for his dear life. He did. He travelled towards Owo (70 miles due North-West of Benin). Then he moved towards a village now called Ife. Ife is also roughly 70 miles West of Owo. So he entered Ife from the East. A prediction Ife people had been given about a ruler coming from the East.

With time back in Benin, Esagho could not produce an heir as she had hoped. Owodo later got suspicious and sent other emissaries to the oraclist. That was when the scam was revealed. But it had become known that Ekaladerhan through divinity was in fact alive but he could not be traced in Owodo's life time. So the crown remained vacant. So Evian (now Ogiamien family) became ruler as the most powerful local chieftain of Igodomigodo (as Benin was called then) but NOT a King.

In the meantime, Ekaladerhan has found fortune in Ife & made king. He exclaimed that "Izoduwa" meaning I have been favoured/achieved my destiny. This became Ododuwa. A similar corruption of name would happen to Ododuwa's grandson in Benin two generations later. The exclamation "Owomika" in Youruba became Eweka I of Benin.

In fact my relative is the duke/chief of the ancient village (actually now part of Benin metropolis) where Eweka made that exclamation in About 1170 AD. In just over a week from now, The Crown Prince will be making a similar exclamation (at exactly same spot as 800 years ago) near my relative's ducal palace. That exclamation is what his Title & name will become for life.

And all his children and descendants will henceforth bear that name as surname. Except his first son who will chose his own regnal name when crowned in the future.

Ekaladerhan was known to be alive already so the search continued for decades. Until he was traced to Ife. He refused to return, having sworn an oath not to. But he sent his son "Omonoyan", basically meaning beloved child. What was called Oranmiyan by Ife people.

Oranmiyan was accompanied by yoruba courtiers including Oloton. Chief Oloton today remains in charge of Royal ancestral shrine. Oranmiyan's son Eweka I restored the monarchy in Ogiso line. Benin people were ready to keep the stool vacant for decades then, just like they did while Ovonramwen was in exile in Calabar for 17 years.

So Ife people came to be very welcome in Benin & seen as our relatives. Even after Oranmiyan left.

Now we all know Yoruba versions of Ododuwa: from coming from the Sky to coming from Mecca. Judge for yourself what is scientifically possible.

Idia was the mother of Oba Esigie. Esigie ruled from 1504 to 1550. Idia was the wife of Oba Ozolua. Both her husband and son go down in history as successful warrior Kings/emperors.

She was a warrior Queen Mother with her own Royal Regiment personally commanded by her at war front. She played a major role in helping Esigie expand the empire. Europeans even accompanied Esigie to wars in Eastern Yorubaland & extolled Benin war tactics including Ifianyako (encirclement) of enemy soldiers.

thanks for the clarity. as a Yoruba boy I am beginning to see it clearly now. I know Owo has similar tradition with Benin and do you know that Ile Ife as I was told also have their own dialect? how I wish the Yorubas can maintain a lineage where automatically the first born son claims the throne instead of political affiliation and by appointment. Benin is indeed rich in history and I appreciate them for keeping the Royal ancestry intact ike they did for Oba ovoramwen nnogbaisi by not allowing Britain too desecrate their throne. long live Benin kingdom. Oba Gha to kpere Ise

aycorporat:

thanks for the clarity. as a Yoruba boy I am beginning to see it clearly now. I know Owo has similar tradition with Benin and do you know that Ile Ife as I was told also have their own dialect? how I wish the Yorubas can maintain a lineage where automatically the first born son claims the throne instead of political affiliation and by appointment. Benin is indeed rich in history and I appreciate them for keeping the Royal ancestry intact ike they did for Oba ovoramwen nnogbaisi by not allowing Britain too desecrate their throne. long live Benin kingdom. Oba Gha to kpere Ise

aycorporat:

thanks for the clarity. as a Yoruba boy I am beginning to see it clearly now. I know Owo has similar tradition with Benin and do you know that Ile Ife as I was told also have their own dialect? how I wish the Yorubas can maintain a lineage where automatically the first born son claims the throne instead of political affiliation and by appointment. Benin is indeed rich in history and I appreciate them for keeping the Royal ancestry intact ike they did for Oba ovoramwen nnogbaisi by not allowing Britain too desecrate their throne. long live Benin kingdom. Oba Gha to kpere Ise

similar tradition with Benin? there's no traditional similarly worth mentioning. you can talk of dressing and songs, maybe accents but Tradition taking it too far bro


also, Yorubas have been where Bini is right now. .we practiced that father to son ascension and it carries a lot of problems
opening ascension to all genuine princes and royal families is what makes yoruba stand out.

O0ni:

OONI, can you just explain the points you made bold, may be I need enlightenment in some aspects and please do that with concrete proof

AreaFada2:


You made some points, some salient, others very subjective & others mere conjecture.
That you think some people "genuine Yoruba with the spiritual aspect" and others "fake Yoruba" is your opinion. To which you are entitled. What matters is that people explore their identy/ies by themselves and can live happily with it.

But generally, the clamour for share of national cake & political influence by every hamlet, tribe and ethnic nationality has made everything a game of numbers.

If your tribe cannot determine the outcome of a national election, one can now trample on your tribe & history without batting an eyelid. Irrespective of how enthusiastically that history is celebrated in museums across the world. I have no illusion about the Nigerian reality.

Now to oriki. Literally every Benin person has an oriki. And Benin people have an ancient word for it too. Your oriki is that of your ancestral lineage. It is basically a praise poem, extolling your ancestors, their origins, royalty, nobility or exploits, etc.
If I greeted an elderly woman around 27 years ago in the morning, like any other descendant of Eweka I, the oriki she would call me is pretty much similar to Oba's own, with the difference that I will be called "son of" his majesty, home leopard, the spotless white bird from Ife/Uhe, Umogun, and many more...depending on the knowledge & creativity of the said elderly woman.

In the morning Benin people do not greet good morning/hello/ekaro to elders. Your greeting depends on your ancestry. A man of 80 sitting in his verandahin in Benin in the morning would be greeted by children and wives passing by thus:

Delaiso (Ogiso descendants & women married into the family)
Lamogun (Eweka I's descendants & their wives).
Lagiesan (Children/wives of Chief Ezomo/Commander of Imperial Army)
Lamosun (Children of Chief Ero who is Duke of Urubi/Keeper of North-Western City gate)
Delaihe (children of Elawure/Duke of Usen, a Yoruboid/Ado-Akure Town just about an hour from Benin)

And many more families.
Pretty much like bronze/brass commemorates events, ceremonies and more, your oriki reminds you every morning of your ancestry & history. And it is an ancient practice in Benin.

As for Oba, very funny to hear that it is not a Benin word. In philology, both Yoruba & Benin are termed East-Kwa Niger-Congo language family. Just like Igbo. If Igbo that branched out earlier from the tree still call their King Obi, how impossible is it that both Benin & Yoruba retained Oba from the "ur" or "stamm" language? Moreover, the Ogisos of Igodomigodo already used the title Oba-Godo, so what is the big deal?

Well, well, people always came up with this Idejo talk. That Eleko owns no land.

Now listen. To be a Benin person in those times meant making lots of sacrifice: war conscription, huge levies, abstinence from sex for even married couples & many more would be imposed by the King. So many migrated, with body tattoos and tribal marks used to check exit.

The point is Benin did not have a huge population to fight unnecessary wars. They had to be strategic, tactical, ruthless & efficient.

In Lagos, Benin needed to control areas with access to the sea & lagoon. It was expensive paying mercenaries, which Benin did a lot.

Why would Benin just be fighting endless wars deep into Awori country, with many more strategic/important wars to fight?? The Aworis that needed to be overcome were overcome to control the Eko of Lagos Island. But with documented battles at Iru area. Some do not rule out Oniru having Benin connections.

So even if Benin wanted to take over vast lands, it could not get the population to do so. There, sometimes installing stooges or own princes to pay tribute & maintain loyalty & create buffer zones against Oyo & Idah for example as happened in Northern Ekiti (Otun) & North of Edo.
As for the book by Egharevba, I read it several times as a kid, and memory seems vivid about Ekaladerhan.

Like I said, most people do not know their history, let alone Benin history. We really do not need other people to tell us our history. Everyone can tell his. It does not mean others will agree with you on it.

However, I salute your enthusiasm & interest in history. More people should do same.

As for selling land again to the Oba by Ogiamien, for a token, it has become part of tradition & coronation rites, like many that will happen in the 15 days the rites will take. He will for example symbolically climb a palm tree, to commemorate the suffering of an ancient crown prince centuries ago, who faced opposition before becoming king. Does this mean this crown prince really cannot feed himself without first harvesting palm fruits?
It is meant to further train the prince in humility and appreciate the efforts of his ancestors.

Otun-Ekiti was never under Benin Empire,neither did she pay tribute to Benin.

SaffronSpice:

Otun-Ekiti was never under Benin Empire,neither did she pay tribute to Benin.

Really? I guess you will also deny that Benin Empire defended Ekiti against Oyo empire. Well, it makes no difference now. Benin gave up the empire in 1914. But history remains same. I happen to still have relatives across both Ekiti and Ondo though.

Maybe next time you will say that Otun was a powerful empire. I expect anything from history deniers these days.

macof:


similar tradition with Benin? there's no traditional similarly worth mentioning. you can talk of dressing and songs, maybe accents but Tradition taking it too far bro


also, Yorubas have been where Bini is right now. .we practiced that father to son ascension and it carries a lot of problems
opening ascension to all genuine princes and royal families is what makes yoruba stand out.

Maybe. But you will agree that in Yorubaland some thrones remain vacant for long periods due to litigation and can become subject to politics and who has the deepest pocket. Royalty is something you need to train for. Being a prince might not just be enough.

Does it not make more sense to be trained from childhood for such a very demanding job?

I guess such would avoid a scenario where a certain Oba was publicly fighting his Olori and even led to his dethronement then.

AreaFada2:


Maybe. But you will agree that in Yorubaland some thrones remain vacant for long periods due to litigation and can become subject to politics and who has the deepest pocket. Royalty is something you need to train for. Being a prince might not just be enough.

Does it not make more sense to be trained from childhood for such a very demanding job?

I guess such would avoid a scenario where a certain Oba was fighting publicly his Olori and even led to his dethronement then.

Hahahahaha my guy why you dey finishing us like this? don't mind that yeye oba jare. you really have a deep knowledge of your ancestry. nice one

macof:



How can a grandson beget his grandfather use your head. this type of talk could have gotten you killed 300 years ago

Oranmiyan isnt represented by the Ooni, Take that up with the Alaafin. .if you can take Oyo on.
But Ooni is more concerned with Oduduwa


father

The edo throne predates oduduwa hence it very well can beget oduduwa and his descendants.
D ooni is also a child of oramiyan.

macof:


nobody is claiming your land We are claiming our property - the Obaship we gave to you

Go on and keep claiming, d fact that u claim it doesnt make it yours.

AreaFada2:

Really? I guess you will also deny that Benin Empire defended Ekiti against Oyo empire. Well, it makes no difference now. Benin gave up the empire in 1914. But history remains same. I happen to still have relatives across both Ekiti and Ondo though.
Maybe next time you will say that Otun was a powerful empire. I expect anything from history deniers these days.

Is this your idea of a joke or you are really serious?
If Benin soldiers had defended Ekiti against Oyo,why were they not present during the Kiriji War to fight the Oyos?Why were there no Benin troops in the EKiti Parapo alliance?Eh?
Draw it mildly.
Even most revisionists only mention Otun as a frontier town between the Benin & Oyo Empire.
It makes a difference;some of these myths need to be exploded.
You need not mention that you have relatives in Ondo & Ekiti to explain away the flaw in your post.
I am from Mobaland,and Otun is only a 10mins journey from my hometown .

SaffronSpice:

Is this your idea of a joke or you are really serious?
If Benin soldiers had defended Ekiti against Oyo,why were they not present during the Kiriji War to fight the Oyos?Why were there no Benin troops in the EKiti Parapo alliance?Eh?
Draw it mildly.
Even most revisionists only mention Otun as a frontier town between the Benin & Oyo Empire.
It makes a difference;some of these myths need to be exploded.
You need not mention that you have relatives in Ondo & Ekiti to explain away the flaw in your post.
I am from Mobaland,and Otun is only a 10mins journey from my hometown .

What you fail to realise is the fluidity of alliances, of whatever name. You seem to believe that history is just one long period in which all things remained same.

Let me tell you, many wars historically broke out when one party broke the terms & conditions of alliance or suzerainty. Like a new headstrong prince ascending the throne and believing that his father or grandfather had been weak to agree to unfavourable terms.
Now you picked one alliance as evidence that Ekiti never needed to be defended by Benin. What was the lifespan of that alliance and from roughly which year to which year did it stretch? Who were the ruling monarchs in Oyo & Benin during those times?

You need a far better understanding of history before you jump forward claim to be an authority in any topic.

Why should I not mention my relatives anywhere in the world? And in Ondo/Ekiti in particular? After all, most of them are very likely more educated and better enlightened in the history of those parts than you. And may even have higher stakes than you in those parts.

Moreso, how important is your ancestry in the monarchies of Yorubaland that you claim to know about?

Those you call revisionists, what better evidence of history have you that the boundary between Oyo & Benin Empires spheres of influence was not set at Otun?

For many of us, it is not just something about tribes, it is also part personal family history passed down. If you do not belong to that echelon of traditional society, I do not expect you to know. Period.

AreaFada2:

What you fail to realise is the fluidity of alliances, of whatever name. You seem to believe that history is just one long period in which all things remained same.
Let me tell you, many wars historically broke out when one party broke the terms & conditions of alliance or suzerainty. Like a new headstrong prince ascending the throne and believing that his father or grandfather had been weak to agree to unfavourable terms.
Now you picked one alliance as evidence that Ekiti never needed to be defended by Benin. What was the lifespan of that alliance and from roughly which year to which year did it stretch? Who were the ruling monarchs in Oyo & Benin during those times?
You need a far better understanding of history before you jump forward claim to be an authority in any topic.
Why should I not mention my relatives anywhere in the world? And in Ondo/Ekiti in particular? After all, most of them are very likely more educated and better enlightened in the history of those parts than you. And may even have higher stakes than you in those parts.
Moreso, how important is your ancestry in the monarchies of Yorubaland that you claim to know about?
Those you call revisionists, what better evidence of history have you that the boundary between Oyo & Benin Empires spheres of influence was not set at Otun?
For many of us, it is not just something about tribes, it is also part personal family history passed down. If you do not belong to that echelon of traditional society, I do not expect you to know. Period.

I can't remember claiming to be an authority in any field of knowledge, let alone history.
And I have my reasons for calling those I called revisionists so.It has nothing to do with Otun being a boundary between both Empires;stop extrapolating wrongly from what I typed.
Apart from these two aspects of your post, I couldn't discern either head or tail of what you were trying to say.
I raised two points for you to address and you went off tangent pelting me with questions and saying unrelated things.
I challenged what you posted.Yours is to prove me wrong.I know if the discussion had been about Owo or Lagos you'll be quick to point at some Benin influences.
Now that Otun's on the tapis, you're telling me about alliances and suzerainty.
Tsk tsk.I'll pass.
PS: If you think you're one blueblooded Duke on a level that doesn't Count(pun intended) replying a gentry,fall back with your conceit,dude.

"Moreso,how important is your ancestry in the monarchies of Yorubaland that you claim to know about?"

AreaFada2 or whatever you call yourself, I hope you know that sneering at someone's ancestry is considered the worst form of insult?
Just don't post sh!ts you can't defend about Otun and I woun't have to quote you.

SaffronSpice:

AreaFada2 or whatever you call yourself, I hope you know that sneering at someone's ancestry is considered the worst form of insult?
Just don't post sh!ts you can't defend about Otun and I woun't have to quote you.

Far from sneering. That has more to do with how proud you are of your ancestry, whatever status it had. You will not consider it negative if you are comfortable with it. Now what you have done is jump forward to defended what you have neither the acquired knowledge or intimate family historic involvement to do so. Simple.

If that came across negatively, apologies. This is meant to be a forum where people bring their ideas, better still, knowledge, forward.

SaffronSpice:

I can't remember claiming to be an authority in any field of knowledge, let alone history.
And I have my reasons for calling those I called revisionists so.It has nothing to do with Otun being a boundary between both Empires;stop extrapolating wrongly from what I typed.
Apart from these two aspects of your post, I couldn't discern either head or tail of what you were trying to say.
I raised two points for you to address and you went off tangent pelting me with questions and saying unrelated things.
I challenged what you posted.Yours is to prove me wrong.I know if the discussion had been about Owo or Lagos you'll be quick to point at some Benin influences.
Now that Otun's on the tapis, you're telling me about alliances and suzerainty.
Tsk tsk.I'll pass.
PS: If you think you're one blueblooded Duke on a level that don't Count(pun intended) replying a gentry,fall back with your conceit,dude.

Well, I am not going conceal my ancestors because someone might feel offended.

For anyone that knows the importance of the big picture, the point I made about alliances is apt. If just defending a particular position from a particular narrow angle and in reality have no interest in history you will not see my point.

Take it or leave it. Northern Ekiti for long periods was a buffer zone against Oyo Empire. Now, no savvy empire would entrust the ruling of a buffer area in the hands of a potentially unreliable chieftain. Certainly not Benin Kingdom did that.

Read about the history of the Low Countries of Europe and the role they played in the power play between European great powers.

If you have no interest in history or comparative history, this will naively appear tangential and too far away to be relevant to what happened in Northern Ekiti at roughly same period.

While pun intended, you unwittingly got very close indeed.

AreaFada2:

Well, I am not going conceal my ancestors because someone might feel offended.

For anyone that knows the importance of the big picture, the point I made about alliances is apt. If just defending a particular position from a particular narrow angle and in reality have no interest in history you will not see my point.

Take it or leave it. Northern Ekiti for long periods was a buffer zone against Oyo Empire. Now, no savvy empire would entrust the ruling of a buffer area in the hands of a potentially unreliable chieftain. Certainly not Benin Kingdom did that.

Read about the history of the Low Countries of Europe and the role they played in the power play between European great powers.

If you have no interest in history or comparative history, this will naively appear tangential and too far away to be relevant to what happened in Northern Ekiti at roughly same period.
While pun intended, you unwittingly got very close indeed.

Area fada away from all this stuff, please, was Obaseki trying to usurp the throne by befriending the British or what because in the movie he was not really portrayed as a bad man, secondly was Oba ovoramwen nnogbaisi caught in the bush in hiding like the film relayed and thirdly why were his wives not with him on the boat to calabar?
thank you friend