fatiaforreal:

A good piece of history, I read it too and agree with most of your points. However, as a genuine historian, you should be more focused on facts than where you came from. You must think out of the Bini box.
1) What made Ogiamen to challenge Square? What were the words he uttered to Square? These are salient pointers to the crux of the matter. Ogiamen told Ewuare to go back to Ife, the land of his fathers. At such an early period of the kingdom, can we say Ogiamen was not aware of your Ekalerdahan/Oduduwa transformation?
2) I laugh when you say you know your history. Can you write just a page of cogent points on pre Oduduwa Bini history. The only fabrication you know too well is Ekalerdahan that wandered into the bush and reappeared as a king in Ife. How logical is that to you? Modern history, with superior argument to the tales by moonlight story of Ekalerdahan shows Ife and Benin were conquered contrary to what you and I were taught from childhood. The beauty of education lies in your ability to rise above the pedestal of primordial loyalty in the face of empirical facts.
3)The Yorubas are from the Kwa people of the civilization on the bank of river Niger. They referred to it as Ife while those who remained and intermarried with later invaders in this same area, the Nupe referred to it as Nyuife which was corrupted into Nupe. A large portion of the Kwa people migrated downwards to found another Ife, Ife Ooyelagbo and named the Kingdom Ugbo. Upon arrival of Oduduwa, a war broke out. Some of the people moved downwards to present Igbokoda area in On do to found another Ugbo Kingdom. Some of them set up camp in Oke igbo from where they raided Ife for so long.
Oduduwa transformed Ife to the first city state in the southern part of Nigeria. About this same period too, members of Oduduwa entourage in the migration through Sudan to Nupe founded Borgu kingdom while the Igalas had evolved from the Kwa people that didn't migrate to second Ife.

NOW, I CHALLENGE YOU! GIVE A NARRATIVE OF BINI PEOPLE PRIOR TO EKALERDAHAN IF INDEED YOU KNOW YOUR HISTORY. Thank you.

From the things you have written, now I know you are using a very bad history source. Very bad one bros. Haba....
1) Ewuare did not even exist until about 500 years after Ogiamen so I don't know where ogiamen and Ewuare met.
2) Please bros read about the Ogiso dynasty, bros almost everything in today's palace or Benin in general is linked to the ogiso. If its not the royal stool, it is the royal sword and many more. We had over 30 ogisos, bros just use google na, haba...if my early knowledge of written history were to be put in consideration they mostly came from what yoruba historians wrote about us. They did a very bad job because it was always in conflict with our own oral history which are in our songs and stories.
3) This one sef, I no even understand the kind history and anthropology when you dy troway here. For this reason, I rest my case for your matter. E no get wetin I wn tell u because I no even knw were u dy bring ur facts from....

odigbosky:





I am going to take my time to try and give you details and only hope you can understand because I don't know the history books you have been reading.

1) The Tsoede I read about is said to be an Igala prince that formed the Nupes into a kingdom. Just as an Edo prince established the kingdom in Eko and same in warri.
2) I thought one of the most ancient in Nigeria and west africa is the NOK civilization in the Plateau not the Nupes at all. Infact the monoliths in cross river states dates far back to years before most of the kingdoms in what we call Nigeria started forming. So I don't know how Nupe has become the oldest civilization all of a sudden.
3) Since the history of the Benin-ife relations, the argument of Oronmiyan being the conqueror of Benin has never stood. Even your people say Oduduwa sent one of his sons to rule Benin. You only send someone to rule on your behalf when you have conquered. Son from your own argument, who conquered Benin, Oduduwa or Oronmiyan
4) It is shocking to see how someone who has no knowledge about the geographical details of a place starts writing stuffs about it. Did you know that as the early 1960's Benin did not cross the main place you call Oguola. Now, Oba Oguola built a moat around benin, that moat is about 15mins drive from the palace. Do you know that people leaving in the hamlets of aduwawa usually before crossing the ikpoba river called the other side, the ogbe area as Edo(Benin). Infact the main stretch of the ikpoba river is a dukedom of its own called Uteh. if you read about the Ogiso dynasty it will tell you that many ogisos came from various hamlets. Do you know that Useh is less than 30mins drive from the palace. Even Egor, yet these whole places are now what we call Benin due to rapid expansion. Even Uselu was a village. So it was the main Ogbe axis that was called Edo by the people leaving around that Ogbe. So when they say the Igala attack did not even cross the ikpoba river as at then, try and think about the distance frm Ogbe to the ikpoba river on foot. You can only know this if you know Benin. So the Igala attack did not cause Edos to live on hill tops, infact Edo people in Edo north where already leaving there in lowlands since the time of Ewuare I. Read about the histories of towns like Agenebode, okpella and many more. If Edo people ran to hill tops it was later in the 18th century when the Nupe's raided northern fringes of the land for slaves and this was stopped by Esan Warriors. Now the slave route, is if you can imagine the present Benin-Abuja road and try and see the areas largely affected by islam in the Edo north senatorial district. You will see that they are mainly hamlets along this present road and many other hamlets in the interior never had contact with the Nupes at all, and as at that time Benin was no longer a kingdom, it was an Empire. Remember the empire started at about the mid 14th century until the british ended it.
5) Bros Benin has never, ever existed close to the river Niger, it is kingdoms like that of the Igalas, Asaba, and onitsha that did and in Asaba and onitsha both had migrations from Benin you can read about that your self. The ruling house of Onitsha testifies of it. Not that they even migrated from Benin directly (ogbe axis) they migrated from various hamlets in what is now referred to the aniocha lands in present delta state which were all parts of the growing kingdom of igodomigodo until the name was changed to Edo. We never called ourselves or the empire Benin. Yes we all came from a place, I cnt deny that fact.
6) Bro you are the one telling me about this ijaw stuff, the ijaws are riverine people, Benin is not riverine. Even the ijaws don't even claim what you are claiming. I don't know where you are generating this EFA stuffs from. I also know that the KWA is used in describing groups of langauges in the Niger-congo basin of which the yoruba, edo, igbo, and many other dialects are parts of.
7) This one really is the height of all your fabrication, Oshodin originating from Tsoede. Bro you need to read about Benin Palace life and how things worked.
For you to come out and lie like this, you are courageous, that the Benin empire came as a result of the collapse of the oyo empire. You can't compare sokoto with Benin. Both was great in its own sphere. You can compare Songhai, Mali, ancient Ghana and Sokoto because they originated from an area with very close features and they did arise from one's decline. The Only Empire in the south of what we call Nigeria apart from Benin was Oyo, Oyo was not even fully in the forest like Benin, she was at the Northern fringes of the forest, that's why she could operate in the grassland and in the forest as well. Benin was completely in the forest, and at the height of Oyo, Benin was also there in her own domain, both empires rose at their own pace almost at the same time. Oyo decline did not affect Benin, while Benin was a dominat power in the coasts, oyo could not boast of that. Please let's keep sentiments apart, try and see various maps used by early europeans who traded in the south west and south south, you will see how the empire really was.....

I like how you corrected some of the misinformations, not knowing it all is not something to be ashamed of

I believe you consider Oduduwa to be Ekaladerhan... is this because you have evidence or because you just want to follow what you perceive as loyalty to Bini whether it's true or not

I just have few questions

1. what coronation rites connected to Ekaladerhan exists in Bini, we know of rites connected to Oranmiyan, Eweka I, Ewedo and Ewuare I
2. what part of the Oba's ancestral praise is connected to Ekaladerhan or the Ogisos... as there are references to Ife and Oduduwa(not Imadoduwa or Izoduwa)
3. what pre-independence reports about Ekalerdahan can you mention, we can analyze it


I'm asking cause I there's no way you can tell people something like this without backing the claims up with some kind of evidence

Ever since colonialism, we've had so much distortion of history in nigeria. ..so much that history is no longer taught in schools (which I think is a good thing, considering the nonsense they could be taught)...it's best to fix the cracks and fill the holes
so if bini has traditions about oduduwa, how come Ife missed that part? very important to clear that up

macof:


I like how you corrected some of the misinformations, not knowing it all is not something to be ashamed of

I believe you consider Oduduwa to be Ekaladerhan... is this because you have evidence or because you just want to follow what you perceive as loyalty to Bini whether it's true or not

I just have few questions

1. what coronation rites connected to Ekaladerhan exists in Bini, we know of rites connected to Oranmiyan, Eweka I, Ewedo and Ewuare I
2. what part of the Oba's ancestral praise is connected to Ekaladerhan or the Ogisos... as there are references to Ife and Oduduwa(not Imadoduwa or Izoduwa)
3. what pre-independence reports about Ekalerdahan can you mention, we can analyze it


I'm asking cause I there's no way you can tell people something like this without backing the claims up with some kind of evidence

Ever since colonialism, we've had so much distortion of history in nigeria. ..so much that history is no longer taught in schools (which I think is a good thing, considering the nonsense they could be taught)...it's best to fix the cracks and fill the holes
so if bini has traditions about oduduwa, how come Ife missed that part? very important to clear that up

You know that history can be shared by different cultures, histories also can vary accroding to cultures. Let me give you an instance, many kingdoms in Ika trace their origin and its kingship from Benin. They have detailed explanation that we in Benin don't even know about, its their history, we cannot even start disputing about it, but there are still some that we don't agree on. Some pple in Lagos even tried to refute the kingship of Eko being from Benin, we argued and they argued but the palace in Eko has taken its position and that is how it stands so. Same with many other kingdoms. We the Edos have for long taken a stand on ours. Am not a member of the royal family but I have friends linked to it. There are certain rituals meant to honour all dead obas in Benin, none is given to Izoduwa, but he is treated as a prince. So it makes one to ask when was Izoduwa a prince in Benin, if truly he was a prince, then who was his father. In Benin the issue of progeniture is taken very seriously. The Edos would not allow anybody who is not the son of a king become king, so it has been since the time of the Ogisos who started it. So that was how it has been till now. The Edos would rather have an empty seat than have one who is not of that blood line be crowned oba, the same thing happened during the time of Oba ovonranmwen. If you are a palace courtier you will have more knowledge of inside stuffs. The first time I was told the story of Ekhaladehran was in 2008, I never knew the importance of it, I was not even thought history in school. I was told about the story in a remote village called Ewoesi in Ohrionwon. This particular village till now does not have light, its a very typical village, so since then I have held on to that belief. Many old pple in the interior villages know the story too well, its just us the youth who don't even know about it. If you go to Okada you will see a school built in the 1970 called Ikhaladehran, there are different things that are associated with him. If the day looks cloudy but it doesn't rain, it is called Ede Ikhaladehran, this is mostly used in typical villages. Ede Ikhaladehran means The day of ikhaladehran. It used to conote the day ikhaladehran was supposed to have been executed. Now if you go to Usen in Ovia north east a place where Oronmiyan passed through when he was returning to Benin. The people are hybrids of ife and benin mixtures. Their language is a combination of both. So when we talk about either ekhaladehran or oronmiyan we have different sites to mark their history that is why we can boast about it. Most of the traditional remnats or sites are still existing. This issue is like the case of the Osemawe of Ondo whose kingdom was established by the feeling iyase of Udo during the 15th century when Esigie was Oba. The moment I heard the word Osemawe I knew it was an edo word...but there are conflicting stories about the whole Osemawe issues. There is also another group that are like yorubas that came with Oronmiyan to Benin. They later left Benin to present delta state after Oronmiyan left. There is a chief. Called Oloton that came with Oronmiyan to Benin also, these chief still exist, their title is hereditary, so they bear witness. They themselves came because oduduwa asked them to come with the young oronmiyan and in all of their history they have never spoken of a. Conquest of Benin by oduduwa. So bro history is shared. Like what the Oba said, he said he is a direct descendant of oduduwa, no oba has ever denied it, but he also said that this same Oduduwa in ile ife was the prince called Ikhaladehran, but this fact he cannot force on anybody and that is the position they have maintained and will always maintain. Bros I don tire for this topic, I just pray u get to see from our own side, you have yours, we don't. Want to force ours on you guys, but the problem is that you are forcing yours on us and that is the problem. How can a whole nation reject something with such vigour. I hope that someday we will learn to just stick with our own story and you guys with yours. The Man Oronmiyan is synonymous with two empires. That is something we all should be happy about........I drop my pen on this topic here, thanks.

fatiaforreal:

The palace is aware of the public debate and they know the Ekiopagha Treaty is an acid test. He would be the first Oba of Benin not to pay, and if this goes to court, more secrets will be revealed. If the was just like any other rite he would have done it. You see why I was hammering on the treaty. His refusal to perform it is a victory in itself for our argument. The Oba is from Ife. Case closed.

He isnt d 1st oba to not perform d ritual, the ritual has been missed for at least 10 times. d ogiamwen was reabsorbed into d uzama n'bie which makes him a subject and subordinate to d king. anyone sueing the oba is just ignorant.

fatiaforreal:

The languages were not as varied as they appear today. Nupeland is where more than 70% of the languages in Africa originated from and it's the point of separation of most tribes.
Oranmiyan did not wander, he conquered Benin.
Ooni has visited every kingdom he considers Oduduwa's kingdom. Is Benin kingdom an exception?

Oranmiyan didnt conquer shit, the families his some of his associates are still in benin, when oranmiyan came to benin he was still a scared young man, he never set foot in d benin town becos evian's son was in control, d chiefs gave him a place to stay at d outskirt of d town. oramiyan couldnt even fight his own battles he ran away when he saw evians child was in charge, he ran away and left a pregnant woman (common who does dat?). his son eweka after learning was d chief was a more courageous person compared to oranmiyan. even at that eweka didnt defeat evian kid nor did his children until oba ewedo.

pls stop speaking from ignorance.

fatiaforreal:

Good point.
He founded old Oyo kingdom too.
He left his son Ajaka and returned home. HOME, not Benin but ILE IFE.

WAS AJAKA also in his mother womb when oranmiyan left? and was he surrounded by an enemy like eweka was?

macof:


do you know the Ogiamien sued the bini chiefs and the crown prince to court for not paying the bills for the land he will rule after his coronation?

Ubenedictus. ..bokohala...

D ogiamwen didnt sue d oba, ogiamwen is missing, arisco sued the oba and d ogiamwen family disowned him quicky after aserting he isnt a direct descendant of d missing ogiamwen.

d so called treaty is a ritual not compulsory, it has been missed over 10times. the ogiamwen is part of d uzama n'bie and subject to the king.

the ogiamwen was shown clemency because of d memory of evian who was a good administrator.

fatiaforreal:
So its funny when a Bini man claims Oba originated from Benin.
The palace is only trying to cover up the origin of the Oba to prevent a possible challenge to the dynasty by the aborigines led by Ogiamen. That's just the truth.

D ogiamwen doesnt lead anything, he is missing, he was given land and title becos of his good father, even his family are stil subject to d king.

Ubenedictus:
D ogiamwen didnt sue d oba, ogiamwen is missing, arisco sued the oba and d ogiamwen family disowned him quicky after aserting he isnt a direct descendant of d missing ogiamwen.

d so called treaty is a ritual not compulsory, it has been missed over 10times. the ogiamwen is part of d uzama n'bie and subject to the king.

the ogiamwen was shown clemency because of d memory of evian who was a good administrator.

but arisco has already done the coronation, can a man crown himself?... the thing is the ogiamien family is divided
sucks for them though...i hope they sort things out . the treaty is essential...probably the 2nd most important part of the coronation after the 'picking' of a name for the Oba unless they have cheated the ogiamien out. I read someone who joined in the burial of the father of the missing ogiamien was supposed to fill in for him. messed up arrangement if you ask me, why not just dethrone the 'missing' ogiamien on grounds of not properly following his duty or proclaim him dead and crown another person

I found this at edofolks.com


yalle should read this up...


http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub50.htm

odigbosky:




From the things you have written, now I know you are using a very bad history source. Very bad one bros. Haba....
1) Ewuare did not even exist until about 500 years after Ogiamen so I don't know where ogiamen and Ewuare met.
2) Please bros read about the Ogiso dynasty, bros almost everything in today's palace or Benin in general is linked to the ogiso. If its not the royal stool, it is the royal sword and many more. We had over 30 ogisos, bros just use google na, haba...if my early knowledge of written history were to be put in consideration they mostly came from what yoruba historians wrote about us. They did a very bad job because it was always in conflict with our own oral history which are in our songs and stories.
3) This one sef, I no even understand the kind history and anthropology when you dy troway here. For this reason, I rest my case for your matter. E no get wetin I wn tell u because I no even knw were u dy bring ur facts from....

Apology for the delay. I'm a Yoruba man, I had a number of parties to attend which kept me away.
In my culture, a man learns from cradle to grave, you never knew it all. I learnt one or two things from this thread.
However, you have not told me about Bini of Ogiso era, except the last and the first. When I challenged you, I knew you didn't have the history. Nobody has it! Except some sketchy information and it's largely mythologic.
Many great personalities have disappeared from history without trace, like the biblical Moses and Adolf Hitler. Ekalerdahan belong to this catory, anything beyond that is a propounded theory to fit the scenario.
We all met on this discussion, we don't know one another but we've discussed maturely and like intellectuals. I respect your view and the views of your people if that's what they believe. I once believed too like many people believe, that Oduduwa fathered all Yoruba people.
Thanks and regards.

Hahahahahaha!
I laugh. Igala and Nupe. Chicken and egg. Which came first? They're the same people who evolved into different tribes at a point in time.
2 Tsoede and Oshodi are the same name, someone said I lied. What for? Because I said the origin of that name is Nupe and not Benin? What if I tell you that is my surname and I schooled in Benin? If there was anything to gain by being a Bini I can easily claim to be one with my name but I'm not. I can pay application fee to be a yorubaman!

Let us just be patient, sincere about knowing the truth and leave an open mind because our understanding, hence our opinions are bound to change.

We need to be honest and analytical.
I'm from Lagos Island, the thrown of my king is from Benin, but that doesn't mean Binis founded Lagos. They conquered it from Olofin, yet I'm not ashamed of it, because that is the truth of my history.

We have a Family group, most of us are from Lagos while others are from Benin. Research with evidences show that the origin of the family is not Benin but Nupe. In the world of today, with the grandeur of the Oba of Benin, many will bend their history towards Benin, more so there are our members there. However, the truth must be told. That's why your hear Oshodi Tapa. Tapa is Nupe, not Benin. How have I lied ?

Let all of us, including those who have contributed nothing other than abuse keep an open mind. I respect you all. Respect is a Yoruba attribute or did we learn that from Binis too? Lol!

Arisco didnt do any coronation an ogiamwen is a member of d uzama minor which means he receive his beads from d oba he can't be crowned otherwise, arisco isnt even eligible for ogiamwen since d missing one has a son. he illegal proclaimed himself king and his case is in court.

macof:
but arisco has already done the coronation, can a man crown himself?... the thing is the ogiamien family is divided
sucks for them though...i hope they sort things out . the treaty is essential...probably the 2nd most important part of the coronation after the 'picking' of a name for the Oba unless they have cheated the ogiamien out. I read someone who joined in the burial of the father of the missing ogiamien was supposed to fill in for him. messed up arrangement if you ask me, why not just dethrone the 'missing' ogiamien on grounds of not properly following his duty or proclaim him dead and crown another person

d treaty is not essential in d coronation and has been omiuf b4.

Oba Ewuare I the first was one of the greatest kings in Benin history, the first to have contact wit the Portuguese. It is a great honor and premonition of good things to come that the new king has chosen this ancient and revered name.

arazanbal:


that una ooni of ife wy b tourist na u wnt take compare the crown price of benin kingdom? Dt una ooni wy go visit obafemi matins d footballer nd even dy take selfy with am anyhow like 2morow nor dy,when dm dy talk am 4 bini say oba nor dy go transfer u tink say na joke!!! Nor go dr oo,the binis 2get swagg o

is it true,that Oba of Benin dont venture out? I once heard Osayomore Joseph's "ORORO NØ DEY FAIL,OBA NØ DEY GO TRANSFER"

If in truth Ekalerdahan was not a scam, and he was indeed Oduduwa, why the sudden adoption of the tittle Oba? Why not continue as Ogiso, so that the present one would have been crowned as the 70th Ogiso. Keep deceiving yourselves.