hahn:


I am waiting for image123's answer

Why do you and dalaman imply that hurricanes and tsunamis are evil? Some people think thunder and lightning is evil, but others harness them.

Image123:


His second coming.
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

So Jesus doesnt have a solution to the problems of natural evil here on earth only in the mythical world to come. Well done.

Image123:


Why do you and dalaman imply that hurricanes and tsunamis are evil? Some people think thunder and lightning is evil, but others harness them.

What good does a tsunami do?

foladara777:

So God had already said before that he will send beasts and that makes it alright?? Or killing children as a sign of continued judgment is justifiable?? U need to do better than this
BTW, I saw the page u lifted this comment from... This shows desperation... But I get it, u are determined that you will justify these acts

Hi friend. I did not read all the posts on this thread for want of time but going through your post and that of ForeverGod, I thought I should give an explanation. Regarding Elijah, this was a gift from God operational. See there is something about miraculous gifts from God that I've got to let you understand. God is the giver but MAN is the recipient. Now Elijah made the pronouncement out of anger and it happened.

This is the very reason why the gifts of God are quite rare. God knows that man can actually use these gifts for good and unfortunately, for evil purposes as well. Before God endues men with miraculous power, He tests them again and again and God continues to test men to prune their hearts from wrong intents as He increases these gifts in their lives. There are gifts from God but there are also levels of demonstration of those gifts. I remember an atheist NLander challenging a christian to heal a blind boy and whilst this is very possible with God, the gifts of God do not just flow except a recipient of such a gift have so grown in the use of the gifts that they can produce it at will. There are levels of demonstration of the miraculous gifts of God.

In this instance, a group of young men were killed because they mocked Elijah. God did not tell Elijah to curse them. It was simply a case of demonstrating a gift that was already operational in the Prophet's life having used this gift time and again

Have a look at the passage below:

'And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.' (Acts 16:16-18).

Now the damsel did her divination thing for many days but Paul only undid the spirit after many days. If it was something he could just do with the snap of his finger, he would have done it earlier than many days.

(Side note: the KJV translation of that word 'little children' in 2 Kings 2:23-24 actually does not capture the word properly. 'Young men' would have been a more accurate word as per original hebrew text. But that's by the side)

Regarding the curses placed on the nation of Israel, I'll show you two scriptures that explain the intent of God in all these:

Galatians 3:13 NLT: 'But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.“ '

Galatians 3:19-28 NLT: 'Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham. Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises?Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it. But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ. Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed. Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian. For you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.'

You see God already knew they would not keep the covenant. The actual intent or purpose of the law of Moses was to point people to the fact that they are sinful and God loves sanctity so if He was just relating with the nation of Israel without pointing out things they do that offend Him, that would not work out because two cannot work except they agree.

Romans 5:13-14 explains this point succinctly as follows: '(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come'.

All the curses were actually placed on Jesus who took the punishment for all their misdeeds as per the scripture in Galatians above

dalaman:


So Jesus doesnt have a solution to the problems of natural evil here on earth only in the mythical world to come. Well done.

Is Jesus alive? Did He exist? Did He die on the cross?

dalaman:


So Jesus doesnt have a solution to the problems of natural evil here on earth only in the mythical world to come. Well done.

The power to undo natural disaster, He has invested in men who must co-operate with Him to stall these occurences. i'm refering to the Church of Christ for He must work with man as long as the earth is concerned.

Image123:


Why do you and dalaman imply that hurricanes and tsunamis are evil? Some people think thunder and lightning is evil, but others harness them.

Really, in what planet is tsunami good??

dalaman:


What good does a tsunami do?

What evil does it do? Last i recall, you are the one with eternal confusion on what is good or evil and why.

chrmn1:
The power to undo natural disaster, He has invested in men who must co-operate with Him to stall these occurences. i'm refering to the Church of Christ for He must work with man as long as the earth is concerned.

Men as of now don't have the power to undo natural disasters but God supposedly does, then why not stop them

foladara777:

Really, in what planet is tsunami good??

i should be asking you, i don't recall saying it was good. i asked dalaman and co to tell WHY they implied it evil.

Image123:


What evil does it do? Last i recall, you are the one with eternal confusion on what is good or evil and why.

What evil does tsunami do?? I guess u must have missed the thousands of lives that were lost last time it happened

Image123:


i should be asking you, i don't recall saying it was good. i asked dalaman and co to tell WHY they implied it evil.

Implied it is evil?? Something that causes the deaths of thousands of people needs not be implied to be evil, it is expressly and inherently evil, no one should have to prove that to you

foladara777:

Men as of now don't have the power to undo natural disasters but God supposedly does, then why not stop them

You see, God will not do something for you if you disallow Him to do same. You must understand the character of God. He is all powerful yet meek. If you read Benny Hinn's account of how he first began to relate with the Holy Spirit (I know you don't believe these 'stories' now but please follow me) or Mike Murdock's account, you'll understand this quality in God. Mike was having a nice time in the presence of God in his hotel room (not other room o ), came out for a short time to have a small chat with a minister friend and talked ill about someone they both knew. He went back to his room but the presence was no longer there. Surprised, He began to ask why, and the Holy Spirit spoke to his heart, "why did you speak ill of that person? I was very displeased by that act."

Benny Hinn recounted how he would tell the Holy Spirit, "just hold on a bit" (sort of snubbing Him when He wanted to talk to him i.e. another way of saying to the Holy Spirit, please I'm not in the mood right now) and the Holy Spirit would gently and meekly give him space as requested. Simply put He doesn't force Himself on anyone. That's His character.

Yes you are right when you say man has not got the ability to stop tsunamis but God does. That power is however released when God's representatives on the earth allow Him room to work. But if they don't, the status quo would be the order of the day. It must be this way for now because legally man has been given the mandate over the earth on request.

It was not for nothing that Jesus asked His disciples to pray that the will of God should be done on earth as it is in heaven.

(read again if you've already read this post as I made some typos previously capable of altering meanings of words)

foladara777:

Implied it is evil?? Something that causes the deaths of thousands of people needs not be implied to be evil, it is expressly and inherently evil, no one should have to prove that to you

I actually read from beginning to end, guy you're brilliant. Everyday I'm more convinced that religious people really need our help, seeing how they lack reason and are totally unsympathetic. They try to justify every obvious atrocity committed in the Bible. Arguing with them can be pointless and frustrating.

Image123:


Is Jesus alive? Did He exist? Did He die on the cross?

How can a dead man be alive?

chrmn1:
Hi friend. I did not read all the posts on this thread for want of time but going through your post and that of ForeverGod, I thought I should give an explanation. Regarding Elijah, this was a gift from God operational. See there is something about miraculous gifts from God that I've got to let you understand. God is the giver but MAN is the recipient. Now Elijah made the pronouncement out of anger and it happened.

This is the very reason why the gifts of God are quite rare. God knows that man can actually use these gifts for good and unfortunately, for evil purposes as well. Before God endues men with miraculous power, He tests them again and again and God continues to test men to prune their hearts from wrong intents as He increases these gifts in their lives. There are gifts from God but there are also levels of demonstration of those gifts. I remember an atheist NLander challenging a christian to heal a blind boy and whilst this is very possible with God, the gifts of God do not just flow except a recipient of such a gift have so grown in the use of the gifts that they can produce it at will. There are levels of demonstration of the miraculous gifts of God.

In this instance, a group of young men were killed because they mocked Elijah. God did not tell Elijah to curse them. It was simply a case of demonstrating a gift that was already operational in the Prophet's life having used this gift time and again

Have a look at the passage below:

'And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.' (Acts 16:16-18).

Now the damsel did her divination thing for many days but Paul only undid the spirit after many days. If it was something he could just do with the snap of his finger, he would have done it earlier than many days.

(Side note: the KJV translation of that word 'little children' in 2 Kings 2:23-24 actually does not capture the word properly. 'Young men' would have been a more accurate word as per original hebrew text. But that's by the side)

Regarding the curses placed on the nation of Israel, I'll show you two scriptures that explain the intent of God in all these:

Galatians 3:13 NLT: 'But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.“ '

Galatians 3:19-28 NLT: 'Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham. Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises?Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it. But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ. Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed. Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian. For you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.'

You see God already knew they would not keep the covenant. The actual intent or purpose of the law of Moses was to point people to the fact that they are sinful and God loves sanctity so if He was just relating with the nation of Israel without pointing out things they do that offend Him, that would not work out because two cannot work except they agree.

Romans 5:13-14 explains this point succinctly as follows: '(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come'.

All the curses were actually placed on Jesus who took the punishment for all their misdeeds as per the scripture in Galatians above

Took the time to read the whole epistle but was disappointed u didn't address the issue at all... So Elisha was using God's gift to tear boys to pieces and God stood by...
And don't try to do that complicated translation shit here, I have checked three different translations and two of them use boys and the other uses little children... In the actual text the qualifier, little was used... U people try to rewrite the bible to justify God's acts of wickedness

chrmn1:
You see, God will not do something for you if you disallow Him to do same. You must understand the character of God. He is all powerful yet meek. If you read Benny Hinn's account of how he first began to relate with the Holy Spirit (I know you don't believe these 'stories' now but please follow me) or Mike Murdock's account, you'll understand this quality in God. Mike was having a nice time in the presence of God in his hotel room (not other room o ), came out for a short time to have a small chat with a minister friend and talked ill about someone they both knew. He went back to his room but the presence was no longer there. Surprised, He began to ask why, and the Holy Spirit spoke to his heart, "why did you speak ill of that person? I was very displeased by that act."

Benny Hinn recounted how he would tell the Holy Spirit, "just hold on a bit" (sort of snubbing Him when He wanted to talk to him i.e. another way of saying to the Holy Spirit, please I'm not in the mood right now) and the Holy Spirit would gently and meekly give him space as requested. Simply put He doesn't force Himself on anyone. That's His character.

Yes you are right when you say man has not got the ability to stop tsunamis but God does. That power is however released when God's representatives on the earth allow Him room to work. But if they don't, the status quo would be the order of the day. It must be this way for now because legally man has been given the mandate over the earth on request.

It was not for nothing that Jesus asked His disciples to pray that the will of God should be done on earth as it is in heaven.

(read again if you've already read this post as I made some typos previously capable of altering meanings of words)

So the earthquake that happened in Haiti, a predominantly Christian country was because they disallowed God from stopping it... A hundred thousand people died in that earthquake, committed Christians too who pray to God everyday, u God failed to protect them

foladara777:

Took the time to read the whole epistle but was disappointed u didn't address the issue at all... So Elisha was using God's gift to tear boys to pieces and God stood by...
And don't try to do that complicated translation shit here, I have checked three different translations and two of them use boys and the other uses little children... In the actual text the qualifier, little was used... U people try to rewrite the bible to justify God's acts of wickedness

The passage does not say God was standing or that He approved of this act. The deed was done, simples. I took out time to explain how the gift of God works, that even though it's got redemptive power, it can be used for selfish purposes and this is why God is extra careful when He releases it.

chrmn1:
The passage does not say God was standing or that He approved of this act. The deed was done, simples. I took out time to explain how the gift of God works, that even though it's got redemptive power, it can be used for selfish purposes and this is why God is extra careful when He releases it.

The deed was done simple?? So God has no part of the blame?? Couldn't he have prevented the act?? I thought God could do all things

foladara777:

So the earthquake that happened in Haiti, a predominantly Christian country was because they disallowed God from stopping it... A hundred thousand people died in that earthquake, committed Christians too who pray to God everyday, u God failed to protect them

No sir. That's not for you to determine. The Bible says, "man looks on the outward appearance but God looks of the heart". I was in a fellowship and you'd almost swear that the fellowship excos were living faithful and upright lives. I got a taste of their other side when I was privileged to stay close to some of them. Even me typing, you really don't know me so I may sound like a very spiritual brother to you but only God knows the things I do in secret. Unlike man, God is not impressed by our outward activities. I still maintain that Nigerians are very religious folks but we are largely lacking in true and committed worship to God

I've always maintained that a truly successful Christian life is only achievable with the help of the Holy Spirit who was given to us to give us advance knowledge and instructions for profitable living. If someone was sensitive enough to the prompting of the Spirit, it may have been averted. It's possible that some people were given this information prior to its occurrence but they didn't act on it or were lazy and just shoved the instruction away.

I know someone who was given advance info that the financial institution (one of the top ones in the country these days) where he was working would soon fold up when the outward signs indicated otherwise. The company was actually very healthy at the time. He told a lot of people of what he saw including me. He acted on that instruction and left the company few months later and shortly after, news began to spill and the rest was history

chrmn1:
No sir. That's not for you to determine. The Bible says, "man looks on the outward appearance but God looks of the heart". I was in a fellowship and you'd almost swear that the fellowship excos were living faithful and upright lives. I got a taste of their other side when I was privileged to stay close to some of them. Even me typing, you really don't know me so I may sound like a very spiritual brother to you but only God knows the things I do in secret. Unlike man, God is not impressed by our outward activities. I still maintain that Nigerians are very religious folks but we are largely lacking in true and committed worship to God

I've always maintained that a truly successful Christian life is only achievable with the help of the Holy Spirit who was given to us to give us advance knowledge and instructions for profitable living. If someone was sensitive enough to the prompting of the Spirit, it may have been averted. It's possible that some people were given this information prior to its occurrence but they didn't act on it or were lazy and just shoved the instruction away.

I know someone who was given advance info that the financial institution (one of the top ones in the country these days) where he was working would soon fold up when the outward signs indicated otherwise. The company was actually very healthy at the time. He told a lot of people of what he saw including me. He acted on that instruction and left the company few months later and shortly after, news began to spill and the rest was history

Don't tell me stories... Let's discuss principles. God stood by and let them die. No purpose is served by the killing of children. And even God had a purpose, the fact that he needed people to die to serve his purpose proves that he's not the almighty because someone that can do all things will not need people to die to achieve his purpose

matrix600:
I actually read from beginning to end, guy you're brilliant. Everyday I'm more convinced that religious people really need our help, seeing how they lack reason and are totally unsympathetic. They try to justify every obvious atrocity committed in the Bible. Arguing with them can be pointless and frustrating.

My boss, As in Christians tire me... They can justify the worst deeds as long as it is in the bible

foladara777:

The deed was done simple?? So God has no part of the blame?? Couldn't he have prevented the act?? I thought God could do all things

If you want to blame God then maybe you should blame Him for creating man in the first place because man will always make mistakes. It is often said that it's human to err. At the time He raised Elijah, Israel was actually going through a season of unbelief, do He needed to reassure them of His power by way of the supernatural and so He commissioned Elijah but because Elijah was human, he was prone to err. When God is working with humans, He doesn't bypass their freewill. And for all you know, you cannot tell how much these guys had done this mocking of the prophet and probably had been warned but went ahead and possibly could only have themselves to blame. The Bible would usually summarize the event. You and I don't know everything that happened between the guys and Elijah. Is it impossible that the guys had met Elijah previously? Me thinks not.

chrmn1:
If you want to blame God then maybe you should blame Him for creating man in the first place because man will always make mistakes. It is often said that it's human to err. At the time He raised Elijah, Israel was actually going through a season of unbelief, do He needed to reassure them of His power by way of the supernatural and so He commissioned Elijah but because Elijah was human, he was prone to err. When God is working with humans, He doesn't bypass their freewill. And for all you know, you cannot tell how much these guys had done this mocking of the prophet and probably had been warned but went ahead and possibly could only have themselves to blame. The Bible would usually summarize the event. You and I don't know everything that happened between the guys and Elijah. Is it impossible that the guys had met Elijah previously? Me thinks not.

Man will always make mistakes?? I guess the tsunamis and earthquakes are a result of men's mistakes, right??... In fact, read your bible, Elisha merely cursed the kids, God provided the bears, God murdered those kids... And he doesn't matter what happened previously, killing kids is wrong... Don't even know why you are trying to add to the account of the bible, maybe u should write your own version

foladara777:

What evil does tsunami do?? I guess u must have missed the thousands of lives that were lost last time it happened

Perhaps you might be better off minding your own business instead of tripping all over the place.The post was addressed primarily to dalaman WITH A HISTORY in mind. You may refer to my post here for YOUR own answer.

foladara777:

Implied it is evil?? Something that causes the deaths of thousands of people needs not be implied to be evil, it is expressly and inherently evil, no one should have to prove that to you

Alcohol, food, machines cause the deaths of thousands of people annually, are you simply simplistic or you are not one of our famous 'thinkers' or what?

dalaman:


How can a dead man be alive?

Or, so He did exist and died on the cross? Good, very good. Why then do you think that His coming and promise to permanently end tears is mythical?

Image123:


Perhaps you might be better off minding your own business instead of tripping all over the place.The post was addressed primarily to dalaman WITH A HISTORY in mind. You may refer to my post here for YOUR own answer.

That's how u people do, when u don't have an adequate response... Look for excuses not to talk about the issues raised... It's not new anymore

Image123:


Alcohol, food, machines cause the deaths of thousands of people annually, are you simply simplistic or you are not one of our famous 'thinkers' or what?

What the fvck are u saying?? So because other things cause deaths, it's perfectly okay if God murdered another 100,000 people with an earthquake... Alcohol is unhealthy, food and machines have their flaws but God is supposed to be a good and almighty God

foladara777:

That's how u people do, when u don't have an adequate response... Look for excuses not to talk about the issues raised... It's not new anymore

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

You are not far from being a believer.

foladara777:

What the fvck are u saying?? So because other things cause deaths, it's perfectly okay if God murdered another 100,000 people with an earthquake... Alcohol is unhealthy, food and machines have their flaws but God is supposed to be a good and almighty God

Don't blow a fuse friend. Calm down and express yourself coherently.

Image123:


Or, so He did exist and died on the cross? Good, very good. Why then do you think that His coming and promise to permanently end tears is mythical?

Because Matthew 16: 28 says,
28Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in (into) His kingdom.
If Jesus was the real deal, he would have come many years ago in line with his prophecy