M14A1:

I'm not trying to get in on the argument, Eastern European pilots were already living at 97SOG and flying Hinds before 2000

Thank you for proving my point!

giles14:
what truth?

The one you're in denial of!

Let's not be disingenuous here.

The Mi 35 is an attack helicopter quite alright but it is not the most specialised AH compared to others. It is different that while it is an attack helicopter, it can also perform additional duties of troop transport in tandem with attack abilities.
If for purely attack reasons, the specs on Rooivalk might just edge out Mi 35. For others, the absence of additional capabilities for Rooivalk outside of attack may mean its not the best. Either way, both are able to do one thing well.

They can rip to shreds enemy troops when they are called in.

MikeCZA:
Citation please!

this is ur last defence eh?
Mike drink some water!

MikeCZA:
Hermes-k is carried by KA-52k.
List weapon intergrated on the Mi-35M hind E!

Ataka ATGM/Kornet-EM/Vishk igla V AAM s5,s8,s13 rockets (with ugroza laser kit)
you were saying?

jln115:
O.8-1.3m vs <1m I'll take <1m

holy sh1t jock!!! this is maths!

jln115:
Nope numbers are exactly how many you have.

Took you long enought , so how does the igla compare to the a-darter 5th gen aam?.....this is a rhetorically question as the tow cannot be compared!

again the A-darter is a planned upgrade for rooivalk mk2

And hell the igla V roasts things
I am surprised u r concerned abt AAM...helos now hunt rebels flying spirits?

BlackBaron:
Let's not be disingenuous here.

The Mi 35 is an attack helicopter quite alright but it is not the most specialised AH compared to others. It is different that while it is an attack helicopter, it can also perform additional duties of troop transport in tandem with attack abilities.
If for purely attack reasons, the specs on Rooivalk might just edge out Mi 35. For others, the absence of additional capabilities for Rooivalk outside of attack may mean its not the best. Either way, both are able to do one thing well.

They can rip to shreds enemy troops when they are called in.

Apparently some blokes can't just cope with the fact that a multitasking AH is a shade away from the rooivalk in performance

sh1t may get to d point they start calling it a "bus" cuz it has windows to d side

Odunayaw:
again the A-darter is a planned upgrade for rooivalk mk2

And hell the igla V roasts things
I am surprised u r concerned abt AAM...helos now hunt rebels flying spirits?

A-Darter is already integrated with the current mk1F baseline.....and having a AAM is an added advantage.....just like carrying troops is an added advantage for the Mi35 apparently according to you guys.

Igla V sucks d1ck compared to the A-Darter

Odunayaw:
holy sh1t
jock!!! this is maths!

1.3m > 1m

0,8+1.3/2= 1.05m

1.05m>1m

0.8m=<1m (<1m could possibly be much less than 0.8m)

thus <1m is better than 0.8-1.3m.....have i dumbed down enough for you to understand?

Lastly the FZs <1m CEP is for targets at 6km either stationary or moving up to 60kmph

Odunayaw:
Ataka ATGM/Kornet-EM/Vishk
igla V AAM
s5,s8,s13 rockets (with ugroza laser kit)

you were saying?

All inferior to the Mokopa,ingwe,A-Darter and FZ guided rockets

jln115:

1.3m > 1m

0,8+1.3/2= 1.05m

1.05m>1m

0.8m=<1m (<1m could possibly be much less than 0.8m)

thus <1m is better than 0.8-1.3m.....have i dumbed down enough for you to understand?

Lastly the FZs <1m CEP is for targets at 6km either stationary or moving up to 60kmph

now tell me something Jock
in simple maths .05m isnt negligible?
u deserve a medal to be honest
much less than 0.8m for a laser guided weapon...lord the horror!!

jln115:
A-Darter is already integrated with the current mk1F baseline.....and having a AAM is an added advantage.....just like carrying troops is an added advantage for the Mi35 apparently according to you guys.

Igla V sucks d1ck compared to the A-Darter

u sound like a chorister with catarrh!

show me citations for the AAM on the mk1F

and who made the Igla V suck...SAAF?
don't get emotional on me now

nemesis2u:
The fifth edition of the joint exercise between Indian and China, codenamed ‘Hand-in-Hand 2015

friends today.

.


.
foes tomorrow.

jln115:

All inferior to the Mokopa,ingwe,A-Darter and FZ guided rockets

first I proved the kornet EM reaches 10km.....so please what inferiority?
Ingwe?..get the hell outta here!

what imaginary A-darter?

u haven't proved the FZ is better than the Ugroza

ur rooivalk needs more steroids to dick contest with the Mi35m(which is supposedly a troop carrier/IFV by ur compatriot)




if at all anything intrigues me on the rooivalk it is the HMDS
all others of its component are normal characteristics of modern AH

.

Odunayaw:
first I proved the kornet EM reaches 10km.....so please what inferiority?
Ingwe?..get the hell outta here!

what imaginary A-darter?

u haven't proved the FZ is better than the Ugroza

ur rooivalk needs more steroids to dick contest with the Mi35m(which is supposedly a troop carrier/IFV by ur compatriot)






if at all anything intrigues me on the rooivalk it is the HMDS
all others of its component are normal characteristics of modern AH

-less penetration than Mokopa
- was compering the ingwe to the ataka
-this one: refer to pic
-<1m cep at 6km against a moving target proves otherwise

Why is jln115 so disturbed about AAM on AH? That's just for self defense. SU24 COULDN'T DEFEND ITSELF FROM F16 while taking out terrorist, so how would Rooivalk defend itself with Mokopa that can hit target at 8km.

The main roles of attack helicopter in today's warfare is to provide support for ground troops and to be tank killers. Other roles are secondary to AH.

Odunayaw:
u sound like a chorister with catarrh!

show me citations for the AAM on the mk1F

and who made the Igla V suck...SAAF?
don't get emotional on me now

...how about photographic evidence?

iblawi:
Why is jln115 so disturbed about AAM on AH? That's just for self defense. SU24 COULDN'T DEFEND ITSELF FROM F16 while taking out terrorist, so how would Rooivalk defend itself with Mokopa that can hit target at 8km.

The main roles of attack helicopter in today's warfare is to provide support for ground troops and to be tank killers. Other roles are secondary to AH.

i would like to respond to this post but i can't dumb down to your level because im scared of heights!

jln115:

-less penetration than Mokopa
- was compering the ingwe to the ataka
-this one: refer to pic
-<1m cep at 6km against a moving target proves otherwise

-50mm less penetration
-for what is worth what is in that pic can be a dummy
- <1.05m CEP at 4-6km against a moving target(before u decide to go ape shit...read about impulse steering of the ugroza)

added bonus... the FZ is standard 70mm..while the ugroza can be added to as heavy as 120mm rockets

look...probably yu r getting me wrong
I will never contest the RAW performance of the Rooivalk...but every thing else
there simply isn't anything better

also...u forget the price comparison
the Mi35m is a winner in Africa

Odunayaw:

-50mm less penetration
-for what is worth what is in that pic can be a dummy
- <1.05m CEP at 4-6km against a moving target(before u decide to go ape shit...read about impulse steering of the ugroza)

added bonus... the FZ is standard 70mm..while the ugroza can be added to as heavy as 120mm rockets

look...probably yu r getting me wrong
I will never contest the RAW performance of the Rooivalk...but every thing else
there simply isn't anything better

also...u forget the price comparison
the Mi35m is a winner in Africa

50mm=5cm do you know how thick 5cm RHA actually is

Why would i reed about it if you just proved the FZ is more accurate?

fair point yet with the added weight of the 120mm you could just as well ditch it and carry more ATGMs

RAW preformance AND the weapons suite

yes Mi35 is cheap i agree! hence the whole of 3rd world Africa uses them!

jln115:

50mm=5cm do you know how thick 5cm RHA actually is

Why would i reed about it if you just proved the FZ is more accurate?

fair point yet with the added weight of the 120mm you could just as well ditch it and carry more ATGMs

RAW preformance AND the weapons suite

yes Mi35 is cheap i agree! hence the whole of 3rd world Africa uses them!

at 1300mm most vehicles are already high up in vahala

dude ... ".05m" is negligible considering blast radius of the warhead

a 120mm would always be cheaper than an ATGM

weapons suite lord!!

it should be Mi35M is cost effective and good enough for Africa and even countries like Brazil(whose terrain naturally the rooivalk shld b suited to)
It just absurd when y'all use cheap to connote poor/less efficient
if the rooivalk @ $40m is struggling to best a $8mil or so Mi35M ..isn't that enough to bring tears to ones eyes?

jln115:

i would like to respond to this post but i can't dumb down to your level because im scared of heights!

In modern warfare do helicopters dogfight?
No

They mainly takeout targets and provide support for ground troops.

Odunayaw:

at 1300mm most vehicles are already high up in vahala

dude ... ".05m" is negligible considering blast radius of the warhead

a 120mm would always be cheaper than an ATGM

weapons suite lord!!

it should be Mi35M is cost effective and good enough for Africa and even countries like Brazil(whose terrain naturally the rooivalk shld b suited to)
It just absurd when y'all use cheap to connote poor/less efficient
if the rooivalk @ $40m is struggling to best a $8mil or so Mi35M ..isn't that enough to bring tears to ones eyes?

5cm can mean the difference between taking out a tank or not, especially if we are talking,Abrams m1a2sep, leo2A7, T14 ect ect

Cheaper, yes but at the same weight with much less penetration i don't see much use for it, you can get the same done with 70mm rockets which weigh half!

It is less effective bro regardless if its cheap or not, Rooivalk was developed over 20 years specifically to be unmatched in hot and high conditions, avionics suite as it is, is modern enough to put it up in the top 5 AH in the world, the rooivalk MK2 would possibly unseat the Apache as the ultimate AH in the world.

If you did your research you would know the $40million includes all research and development costs, and if you know the basics of cost accounting you would know research cost can never be capitalized to assets and development cost will never be capitalized either except when it meats the 6 criteria for it to be capitalized, thus most of the $40mil is pure expenses and not the actual cost of the unit. theoretically the Rooivalk would cost around $20mil.

iblawi:


In modern warfare do helicopters dogfight?
No

They mainly takeout targets and provide support for ground troops.

yeah bro i know!

kabe1:


Dude, it doesn't matter what the space is there for. The fact is the MI-28 can carry 5 soldiers. So according to your widely hilarious descriptions, it is not a dedicated attack helicopter.


The Conflict in Syria simply proves otherwise. The MI-35 carries out most of the combat sorties in an active combat zone with enemies known to possess Manpads.

When the Russian Sukhoi Su-24 "Fencer" bomber was shot down in Syria. The Russians sent in an MI-8 to retrieve the pilots and an MI-24 for escort/cover/scout in a contested hostile airspace. Again, this scenario blows away your assertions.

i am not here to prove anything ........ everybody has a brain so he/she is free to analyze it as he/she deems fit.

******************* associated with MI35 helicopter long before u even heard of it .........
( the indo-Israeli upgrade which later the Russians themselves emulated to some extent )

every weapon system has its positive points and negative points which fanboys/internet warriors etc dont seem to realize.

u very find my description very hilarious , very good
but in real life the joke is on you.

When the Russian Sukhoi Su-24 "Fencer" bomber was shot down in Syria. The Russians sent in an MI-8 to retrieve the pilots and an MI-24 for escort/cover/scout in a contested hostile airspace. Again, this scenario blows away your assertions.

google , youtube , news-sites , blogs opinions seem to the source of ur assertions . but how about being realistic and using real life assertions for a change.

1st it must have never crossed ur mind that when an aircrew is shot down over hostile territory , the escape window of the downed crew closes very fast .

2nd it must have never crossed ur mind that u need to have the requisite assets available on call in that sector/area of operations to under take CSAR operations.

time and requisite assets availability is the critical factor here , and the Russians went for the MI8 MI24 combo because these assets were available on call in that sector/area of operations in minimum time . the CSAR mission head deemed that the assets were adequate to handle the threats present in the extraction zone as per their intelligence inputs, and so the the MI8 MI24 combo was sent in at the earliest without losing time and at the same time without endangering the extraction team .

the above though must have never cross ur mind ........ to tell the truth i dont care , everybody is free to believe what he/she wants

The Conflict in Syria simply proves otherwise. The MI-35 carries out most of the combat sorties in an active combat zone with enemies known to possess Manpads.

really how many tours did u do there , the authority and conviction with which who wrote this , u must be CIA OR FSB OR MOSSAD OR.......

which one ru ?


every human being have their own personal strengths and weakness, we try to take advantage of our personal strengths and subdue/counter our weakness.

same with weapons systems , operators of weapon systems r trained to used the advantages / positive strengths of a weapon system to increase the weapon system effectiveness and at the same time try to minimize / reduce the blind side / weakness of a weapon system via running beter tactics , better training etc .

how difficult is it to understand this.............

jln115:

5cm can mean the difference between taking out a tank or not, especially if we are talking,Abrams m1a2sep, leo2A7, T14 ect ect

Cheaper, yes but at the same weight with much less penetration i don't see much use for it, you can get the same done with 70mm rockets which weigh half!

It is less effective bro regardless if its cheap or not, Rooivalk was developed over 20 years specifically to be unmatched in hot and high conditions, avionics suite as it is, is modern enough to put it up in the top 5 AH in the world, the rooivalk MK2 would possibly unseat the Apache as the ultimate AH in the world.

If you did your research you would know the $40million includes all research and development costs, and if you know the basics of cost accounting you would know research cost can never be capitalized to assets and development cost will never be capitalized either except when it meats the 6 criteria for it to be capitalized, thus most of the $40mil is pure expenses and not the actual cost of the unit. theoretically the Rooivalk would cost around $20mil.

asides RAW performance there isnt simply anything the rooivalk can do that the mi35M can't
the mi35M comes more armored & can carry the same panoply of weapons suite and avionics d rooivalk sports
when push comes to shove...i'd cling to d rugged mi35M as i can get quantity and quality all in one plate

Odunayaw:

asides RAW performance there isnt simply anything the rooivalk can do that the mi35M can't
the mi35M comes more armored & can carry the same panoply of weapons suite and avionics d rooivalk sports
when push comes to shove...i'd cling to d rugged mi35M as i can get quantity and quality all in one plate

How can the mi35 possibly be more armored than the Rooivalk?honestly do you suck these so called facts from your thumb? how can you say something like this when you literally know nothing about the Rooivalks survivability specifications?

nope as proven above you can't compare their weapons suites as one uses weapons systems that have only entered service after 2010 and the other still uses cold war era weapon systems(ex Kornet EM)

cling to your Hind, but when push comes to shove the Rooivalk has proven itself much much more capable than the Hind in the DRC!

jln115:

How can the mi35 possibly be more armored than the Rooivalk?honestly do you suck these so called facts from your thumb? how can you say something like this when you literally know nothing about the Rooivalks survivability specifications?

nope as proven above you can't compare their weapons suites as one uses weapons systems that have only entered service after 2010 and the other still uses cold war era weapon systems(ex Kornet EM)

cling to your Hind, but when push comes to shove the Rooivalk has proven itself much much more capable than the Hind in the DRC!

dullness!
the armor of the cockpit of the mi35M is one of its legacies
sh1t if u have rooivalk's survivable specs drop it and sweating!!
the mi35M is cold war era??what is dz??cerebral palsy??
u r getting emotional on me now
the mi35M Hind E came in the cold war? i think you are confused

isnt it just plain idiocy u r sliding into now

anyway..i shall hold my peace while u celebrate achievements older hinds have made

lionel4power:

friends today.

.


.
foes tomorrow.

friends one hour before,........... foes one hour later

and the cycle continues............

Chanakya versus Sun Tzu

Odunayaw:
dullness!
the armor of the cockpit of the mi35M is one of its legacies
sh1t if u have rooivalk's survivable specs drop it and sweating!!
the mi35M is cold war era??what is dz??cerebral palsy??
u r getting emotional on me now
the mi35M Hind E came in the cold war? i think you are confused

isnt it just plain idiocy u r sliding into now

anyway..i shall hold my peace while u celebrate achievements older hinds have made

Will post specs on the survivability of the Rooivalk in due time! But thanks for admitting you were making claims without knowing sh1t

I was talking about the weapon systems dullard not the actual aircraft!