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Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult - Car Talk (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by NnamdiChidi(m): 5:51pm On Apr 14, 2017
SmartchoicesNG:

I am not your mate. It will be better you don't do things that will make your​existence a misery. Things that will make you an had been. I will NOT WARN YOU AGAIN. IF YOU THINK I AM JOKING CONTINUE.... BUT THE CONSEQUENCES WILL BE YOURS AND YOUR FAMILY'S​ TO BEAR NOT DIPORTIVOS . Being online doesn't mean you are immune.
. This is an open threat n it's not good.U comment badly on other pple's thread n u hv not being warned or threatened the way u just did

5 Likes

Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by valarinz: 7:01pm On Apr 14, 2017
SmartchoicesNG:

I am not your mate. It will be better you don't do things that will make your​existence a misery. Things that will make you an had been. I will NOT WARN YOU AGAIN. IF YOU THINK I AM JOKING CONTINUE.... BUT THE CONSEQUENCES WILL BE YOURS AND YOUR FAMILY'S​ TO BEAR NOT DIPORTIVOS . Being online doesn't mean you are immune.

You started by trolling my posts and topics to talk thrash about the cars I sell and I ignored, yet you persisted till you got my attention, now you have it, enjoy it

Mind you, that tecno phone which you're using Is the limit of your powers, you can't do shit, if you like be indirectly trying to threaten with juju, you're oyo, I repeat you can't do shit, if e pain you go to 3mb and jump.

Tnx ,bye for now

3 Likes

Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 8:24pm On Apr 14, 2017
A rebuild on course..... Measurements​ taken.... Block within specs...
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 8:12am On Apr 15, 2017
75.25 bore
74.8 pistons
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by Conner44: 3:20pm On Apr 15, 2017
SmartchoicesNG:
75.25 bore
74.8 pistons

abeg if your rebuild is successful let us know so we that need the expertise can be assisted too. Thanks

by the way, what particular engine are you trying to work on?

2 Likes

Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 6:22pm On Apr 16, 2017
Conner44:


abeg if your rebuild is successful let us know so we that need the expertise can be assisted too. Thanks

by the way, what particular engine are you trying to work on?

Noted sir.
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 6:24pm On Apr 16, 2017

A Little On Piston and Piston Rings

A piston is a cylindrical engine component that slides back and forth in the cylinder bore by forces produced during the combustion process. The piston acts as a movable end of the combustion chamber. The stationary end of the combustion chamber is the cylinder head. Pistons are commonly made of a cast aluminum alloy for excellent and lightweight thermal conductivity. Thermal conductivity is the ability of a material to conduct and transfer heat. Aluminum expands when heated, and proper clearance must be provided to maintain free piston movement in the cylinder bore. Insufficient clearance can cause the piston to seize in the cylinder. Excessive clearance can cause a loss of compression and an increase in piston noise.

Piston features include the piston head, piston pin bore, piston pin, skirt, ring grooves, ring lands, and piston rings. The piston head is the top surface (closest to the cylinder head) of the piston which is subjected to tremendous forces and heat during normal engine operation.

A piston pin bore is a through hole in the side of the piston perpendicular to piston travel that receives the piston pin. A piston pin is a hollow shaft that connects the small end of the connecting rod to the piston. The skirt of a piston is the portion of the piston closest to the crankshaft that helps align the piston as it moves in the cylinder bore. Some skirts have profiles cut into them to reduce piston mass and to provide clearance for the rotating crankshaft counterweights.

A ring groove is a recessed area located around the perimeter of the piston that is used to retain a piston ring. Ring lands are the two parallel surfaces of the ring groove which function as the sealing surface for the piston ring. A piston ring is an expandable split ring used to provide a seal between the piston an the cylinder wall. Piston rings are commonly made from cast iron. Cast iron retains the integrity of its original shape under heat, load, and other dynamic forces. Piston rings seal the combustion chamber, conduct heat from the piston to the cylinder wall, and return oil to the crankcase. Piston ring size and configuration vary depending on engine design and cylinder material.

Piston rings commonly used on small engines include the compression ring, wiper ring, and oil ring. A compression ring is the piston ring located in the ring groove closest to the piston head. The compression ring seals the combustion chamber from any leakage during the combustion process. When the air-fuel mixture is ignited, pressure from combustion gases is applied to the piston head, forcing the piston toward the crankshaft. The pressurized gases travel through the gap between the cylinder wall and the piston and into the piston ring groove. Combustion gas pressure forces the piston ring against the cylinder wall to form a seal. Pressure applied to the piston ring is approximately proportional to the combustion gas pressure.

A wiper ring is the piston ring with a tapered face located in the ring groove between the compression ring and the oil ring. The wiper ring is used to further seal the combustion chamber and to wipe the cylinder wall clean of excess oil. Combustion gases that pass by the compression ring are stopped by the wiper ring.

An oil ring is the piston ring located in the ring groove closest to the crankcase. The oil ring is used to wipe excess oil from the cylinder wall during piston movement. Excess oil is returned through ring openings to the oil reservoir in the engine block. Two-stroke cycle engines do not require oil rings because lubrication is supplied by mixing oil in the gasoline, and an oil reservoir is not required.

1 Like

Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 6:25pm On Apr 16, 2017
Piston rings seal the combustion chamber, transferring heat to the cylinder wall and controlling oil consumption. A piston ring seals the combustion chamber through inherent and applied pressure. Inherent pressure is the internal spring force that expands a piston ring based on the design and properties of the material used. Inherent pressure requires a significant force needed to compress a piston ring to a smaller diameter. Inherent pressure is determined by the uncompressed or free piston ring gap. Free piston ring gap is the distance between the two ends of a piston ring in an uncompressed state. Typically, the greater the free piston ring gap, the more force the piston ring applies when compressed in the cylinder bore.

A piston ring must provide a predictable and positive radial fit between the cylinder wall and the running surface of the piston ring for an efficient seal. The radial fit is achieved by the inherent pressure of the piston ring. The piston ring must also maintain a seal on the piston ring lands.

In addition to inherent pressure, a piston ring seals the combustion chamber through applied pressure. Applied pressure is pressure applied from combustion gases to the piston ring, causing it to expand. Some piston rings have a chamfered edge opposite the running surface. This chamfered edge causes the piston ring to twist when not affected by combustion gas pressures.

Another piston ring design consideration is cylinder wall contact pressure. This pressure is usually dependent on the elasticity of the piston ring material, free piston ring gap, and exposure to combustion gases. All piston rings used by Briggs & Stratton engines are made of cast iron. Cast iron easily conforms to the cylinder wall. In addition, cast iron is easily coated with other materials to enhance its durability. Care must be exercised when handling piston rings, as cast iron is easily distorted. Piston rings commonly used on small engines include the compression ring, wiper ring, and oil ring.

Compression Ring

The compression ring is the top or closest ring to combustion gases and is exposed to the greatest amount of chemical corrosion and the highest operating temperature. The compression ring transfers 70% of the combustion chamber heat from the piston to the cylinder wall. Most Briggs & Stratton engines use either taper-faced or barrel-faced compression rings. A taper faced compression ring is a piston ring that has approximately a 1° taper angle on the running surface. This taper provides a mild wiping action to prevent any excess oil from reaching the combustion chamber.

A barrel faced compression ring is a piston ring that has a curved running surface to provide consistent lubrication of the piston ring and cylinder wall. This also provides a wedge effect to optimize oil distribution throughout the full stroke of the piston. In addition, the curved running surface reduced the possibility of an oil film breakdown due to excess pressure at the ring edge or excessive piston tilt during operation.

Wiper Ring

The wiper ring, sometimes called the scraper ring, Napier ring, or back-up compression ring, is the next ring away from the cylinder head on the piston. The wiper ring provides a consistent thickness of oil film to lubricate the running surface of the compression ring. Most wiper rings in Briggs & Stratton engines have a taper angle face. The tapered angle is positioned toward the oil reservoir and provides a wiping action as the piston moves toward the crankshaft.

The taper angle provides contact that routes excess oil on the cylinder wall to the oil ring for return to the oil reservoir. A wiper ring incorrectly installed with the tapered angle closest to the compression ring results in excessive oil consumption. This is caused by the wiper ring wiping excess oil toward the combustion chamber.

Oil Ring

An oil ring includes two thin rails or running surfaces. Holes or slots cut into the radial center of the ring allow the flow of excess oil back to the oil reservoir. Oil rings are commonly one piece, incorporating all of these features. Some on-piece oil rings utilize a spring expander to apply additional radial pressure to the piston ring. This increases the unit (measured amount of force and running surface size) pressure applied at the cylinder wall.

The oil ring has the highest inherent pressure of the three rings on the piston. Some Briggs & Stratton engines use a tree-piece oil ring consisting of two rails and an expander. The oil rings are located on each side of the expander. The expander usually contains multiple slots or windows to return oil to the piston ring groove. The oil ring uses inherent piston ring pressure, expander pressure, and the high unit pressure provided by the small running surface of the thin rails.

The piston acts as the movable end of the combustion chamber and must withstand pressure fluctuations, thermal stress, and mechanical load. Piston material and design contribute to the overall durability and performance of an engine. Most pistons are made from die- or gravity-cast aluminum alloy. Cast aluminum alloy is lightweight and has good structural integrity and low manufacturing costs. The light weight of aluminum reduces the overall mass and force necessary to initiate and maintain acceleration of the piston. This allows the piston to utilize more of the force produced by combustion to power the application. Piston designs are based on benefits and compromises for optimum overall engine performance

https://courses.washington.edu/engr100/Section_Wei/engine/UofWindsorManual/Piston%20and%20Piston%20Rings.htm

1 Like

Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by valarinz: 10:02pm On Apr 16, 2017
hahahahahaha grin grin grin

Clears throat...i'm only interested on how to rebuild 1980 Toyota Starlet engine

cheesy

1 Like

Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by diportivo: 12:36pm On Apr 17, 2017
valarinz:
hahahahahaha grin grin grin

Clears throat...i'm only interested on how to rebuild 1980 Toyota Starlet engine

cheesy

make I join u

I don bring food

1 Like

Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 6:21am On Apr 18, 2017
today is marked for cylinder bore honing... also known as deglazing
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by adanny01(m): 11:29am On Apr 18, 2017
ironheart:
The issue with nigerian rebuild has nothing to do with substandard parts. When a nigerian man fails woefully, he start blaming parts for his lack of knowledge and inadequate tools. Most mechanic do not have standard tools. How many of them knows how to use callipers and vernier guages? They just remove ring and put a new one without reglazing the bore.

Honestly, we need a lot to learn

A workshop should have at least this 12 tools

Tapered Ring Compressor

Piston Ring Squaring Tool

Piston Ring Filer

Crankshaft Socket

Engine Brushes

Harmonic Damper Installation Tool

Degree Wheel

Dial Bore Gauge

Pushrod Length Checker

Oil Pump Primer

Valve Spring Height Micrometer

Engine Storage Cradle

I think you made an important point. If you were to do everything right but used substandard parts, where will that take you?

Your point should have been an addition not a substitution. I still think a successful rebuild is more dependent on quality of parts than tools.

Believe me or not, the average kazeem knows whether a cylinder bore is worn or not without using any tool.
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by adanny01(m): 11:47am On Apr 18, 2017
ironheart:
lets not be quick to descredit those parts, have you been to where some of this engine rebuild take place? Imagine rebuild being done with sand and dirty hands, what do you expect? If you take your time to do a proper research, most manufacturers of those so called substandard parts, produce the OEM parts.

Get to South africa, this same parts we call substandard parts are what most of them use n are available in part stores, but they have low failure rates

Most parts we get in Nigeria are from China.
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by adanny01(m): 11:51am On Apr 18, 2017
SmartchoicesNG:
75.25 bore
74.8 pistons

I think you should have opened a new thread with details and specifics. You will get criticisms and also help others with the info. I look forward to seeing a full engine rebuild with right tools and methods.
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by ironheart(m): 12:04pm On Apr 18, 2017
adanny01:


Most parts we get in Nigeria are from China.
it doesn't make them fake

1 Like

Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by ironheart(m): 12:10pm On Apr 18, 2017
adanny01:


I think you made an important point. If you were to do everything right but used substandard parts, where will that take you?

Your point should have been an addition not a substitution. I still think a successful rebuild is more dependent on quality of parts than tools.

Believe me or not, the average kazeem knows whether a cylinder bore is worn or not without using any tool.
trust me we all know that a cylinder starts getting worn the moment it leaves production, its elementry science. Lets get the tools n proper work environment right, then we can tackle fake part. When am average mechanic fails, he blames the parts, not his incompetence​
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by valarinz: 6:01pm On Apr 18, 2017
adanny01:


I think you should have opened a new thread with details and specifics. You will get criticisms and also help others with the info. I look forward to seeing a full engine rebuild with right tools and methods.

Bros relax, that nigga owns no Honda car not to talk of doing any rebuilding, he's just an online troll with 10 other different monikers on nairaland which he uses to log in and like his comments and support himself, do a research on him

tnx
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 6:46pm On Apr 18, 2017
adanny01:


I think you should have opened a new thread with details and specifics. You will get criticisms and also help others with the info. I look forward to seeing a full engine rebuild with right tools and methods.
Thanks for the observation. I will do just that. But I am quite swamped at the moment. I will try to attempt a standard rebuild within the ambit of limited access to appropriate equipments​.
At the moment the machinists around are bewildered about cylinder bore honing/deglazing. I am considering the use of sandpaper and doing it by hand or building an homemade deglazing tool consisting of sandpaper...
Attached is the picture of the engine of reference.

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Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 6:54pm On Apr 18, 2017
adanny01:


I think you made an important point. If you were to do everything right but used substandard parts, where will that take you?

Your point should have been an addition not a substitution. I still think a successful rebuild is more dependent on quality of parts than tools.

Believe me or not, the average kazeem knows whether a cylinder bore is worn or not without using any tool.
Parts and tools are both essential.
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by valarinz: 7:44pm On Apr 18, 2017
SmartchoicesNG:

Thanks for the observation. I will do just that. But I am quite swamped at the moment. I will try to attempt a standard rebuild within the ambit of limited access to appropriate equipments​.
At the moment the machinists around are bewildered about cylinder bore honing/deglazing. I am considering the use of sandpaper and doing it by hand or building an homemade deglazing tool consisting of sandpaper...
Attached is the picture of the engine of reference.

Just to keep this for future reference grin
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 9:37am On Apr 19, 2017
Good morning fellas .. Another blessed day... Hope to scout around for a competent machinist today..
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 5:20pm On Apr 19, 2017
Machinist found. Engine in the process of removal for deglazing.
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by cardoctor(m): 5:27pm On Apr 19, 2017
What makes u think that they are difficult to rebuild?
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 5:54pm On Apr 19, 2017
cardoctor:
What makes u think that they are difficult to rebuild?
Conclusion reached After survey involving local mechanics.... I don't have the privilege of technicians like you around my zone.

Now work is being done with supervision.
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 5:56pm On Apr 19, 2017
Engine removed

Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by lonelydora: 6:02pm On Apr 19, 2017
adanny01:


I am shocked.

No engine is difficult to rebuild. However, spare parts quality is the main issue here. Some mechanics even use Toyota rings on Honda because most Honda parts available are substandard. This will cause the rebuild to fail in a short time.

With the right parts, no engine is difficult to rebuild.
Gbam
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 10:46am On Apr 20, 2017
Deglazed

Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 6:07pm On Apr 20, 2017
Piston rings installed....
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by surefx(m): 1:42pm On Apr 21, 2017
A couple of factors could lead to a rebuild failure
1. Substandard parts

These are not likely to stand the test of time, by withstanding all the necessary forces. Using Toyota engine parts in a Honda engine is a definite no-no due to different engine specs, such as material composition, size, compression ratio, power ratings, heat tolerance, etc.

2. Measurements

It requires a ton of work for a successful rebuild. A critical aspect is measurement of critical parts using appropriate tools such as vernier calipers, micrometer screw gauges, torque wrenches, etc. If a part is already worn beyond specified requirement, it must be replaced. Some important measurements include cylinder bore, crankshaft bearings, cylinder head flatness / thickness, camshaft bearings and caps, etc. Also, all parts must be tightened to spec using torque wrenches.

3. One-time use parts

Some parts should not be reused once taken apart from an engine. Parts such as cylinder head bolts, head gasket, crankshaft bolts, etc. must be replaced.

4. Other reasons

Double head gasket, improper break-in procedure, dirty rebuild environment, use of oversized parts, failure to use assembly lube, wrong lubricant, etc.

If a rebuild is carried out exactly according to manufacturer's service manual, the engine is much likely to operate as intended, as good as new or even better than new, with some calculated technical mods.
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 5:25am On Apr 22, 2017
What is the issue with double head gaskets?
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by nurey(m): 8:39am On Apr 22, 2017
SmartchoicesNG:
What is the issue with double head gaskets?

Timing belt would string or be hard to string and will eventually jump tooth

You will blow the head gasket easier if you double it

From Siena

Siena:
stacking head gasket places the head further from the pistons, which will obviously lower compression slightly. Lower compression makes the engine less efficient and affects performance marginally. BUT, lower compression means the engine will tolerate lower octane gas better, with less chance of detonation (pinging).
Stacking head gaskets is not common practice in naturally aspirated engines. With turbocharged ones (especially if the cylinder head has been skimmed) it is beneficial to run stacked head gaskets, to lower compression, and allow more boost pressure from the turbo to be run safely. These headgaskets are usually steel laminates, meaning a second gasket can have perhaps 2 thin sheets added to a full gasket.
Definitely stacking head gaskets in a diesel engine, with its high compression (17:1 - 23:1) is a recipe for disaster. Even metal laminates will distort under compression, and blow. There are actually thicker headgaskets for diesel engines that have had the cylinder heads skimmed.
Stacking the regular paper headgaskets is bad practice. These non-metal laminate gaskets won't seal properly against each other, and will blow in no time.
It woud be interesting to know why some Nigerian mechanics double up headgaskets.

Experience
Readonee35L:
I used too have a mitsubishi Space wagon . I think a 2.4Gl Manual Tranny
A time came when it started snapping timing belts
Like 4 times
The 1st two times. No damage
3rd tiMe bent valves wch caused lotta money too fix
We checked so many factors that could cause d ish , even replaced one pulley
Then it happened again
Bent valves
Argh
Mech advised to double the gasket so if it snaps no harm wil be done ...
I never had an idea
I told him to do it, and some adjustment were made on d belts wch made a lot of diff , it didn't cut anymore till it was sold
...I didn't notice a change in performance tho
Re: Why Is Rebuilding Honda Engines​ Difficult by SmartchoicesNG: 8:49am On Apr 22, 2017
nurey:


Timing belt would string or be hard to string and will eventually jump tooth

You will blow the head gasket easier if you double it

From Siena



Experience
Not necessarily... if you remember to retighten the bolts at intervals.

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