dalaman:
I think we are inferior intellectually and in terms of intelligence.

Trudax:
Are sub-saharan Africans intellectually inferior on the average to other races?

If we accede to the fact that intelligence is heritable and we also agree that the environment places certain constraints on the individuals living within that environment, and these constraints influence the evolution of these individuals, then why can't we agree that intelligence should vary among human populations who evolved in different environments? Why do we oppose any claim that asserts the superiority or inferiority of a certain race in comparison to another race, when obviously they evolved in unique environments with unique constraints?

If we agree that natural selection is the vehicle that has driven genetic and phenotypical disparities evident in different races, why then do we oppose views that assert the disparities in intelligence, given the fact that intelligence has genetic underpinnings?

Trudax:


There has not been data concerning the genes that control intelligence because people like you and Sarassin and all politically correct academics and so called liberals, strongly oppose and stifle the efforts of anyone who asks these kind of questions.

My argument is from observation, which I laid out in my first two posts, and it's strongly supported by various IQ tests that have been conducted globally, which there is enough data for.

Trudax:
...

Sarassin:


Since when did opposing scientific and biological racism become political correctness? This same doctrine of yours served as the justification for Apartheid still within living memory, the Klu Klux Klan mouthed the same doctrine when they were stringing up black folk in the US southern states and setting them on fire, it is first in line in the process of de-humanization of a race prior to segregation or annihilation need I say more?

You are on a slippery slope when you classify an entire race as being intellectually inferior, we each have five fingers they are not all of equal lengths, each race will have it's strong suits and it's not so strong suits. The history of the world has barely begun and the continent of Africa has much to be admired, rich in resources, the youngest and fastest growing population in the world, it is the power-house of the future.

I think you make a lot of good points but In my view your basic premise is perverse. I lived in Asia for years and yes it’s true their kids are very smart, they study on average 8-10 hours a day, contrast that with the average overfed, obese European/American kid doped up on sugar who can barely keep his concentration in class. East Africans live at high altitude in rarefied air, they are better long-distance runners…...e.t.c, e.t.c.

You have written elegantly composed dissertations on your views, I have a question for you, assuming you are a gentleman of colour of African descent, do you consider yourself intellectually inferior to your Caucasian paymasters? A simple yes or no will do.

LoJ:
Hello everyone,

As someone who has grown up between africa and Europe and who knows very well both people, I see no evidence for this racialist theory of yours (no insult meant).

It is always easy to draw such conclusions, but also very false and superficial. First of all, what is intelligence? Any man of knowledge knows that intelligence is a big word with no meaning. What does it mean to be more intelligent? What is intelligence? Scientifically, IntelligenceS make more sense than Intelligence.

Indeed, there are various aspects and forms of intelligence. When you speak of intelligence you probably mean arithmetico-logico-memory based aspect of intelligence. The - memorizing long chapters formulas and quotes and apply them - aspect of intelligence. What of emotional intelligence? What of Social intelligence? What of artistic intelligence? What of natural intelligence?

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid" - A. Einstein.

Secondly, do you even consider the uprooting of the cultural foundation of africa? Should we overlook the profound impact of such sabotage on the great men and women of this continent?

Interestingly enough, I have studied all my life with white people, and I have only white men diplomas. And you guessed well, I was always the first, and most brilliant or at least top 3, even while I had to study in a 3rd foreign language.

Greetings.

Trudax:


Any system of facts could be used by anyone to support their goal.

Trudax:

Like I said in my argument with Sarassin, the fact that a race is considered intellectually inferior on the average, doesn't mean there aren't intelligent people within that race that could compete with the smartest people in other races deemed intellectually superior to them, It just means that on the average, the intellectually superior races have more intelligent people than them.

Trudax:
Are sub-saharan Africans intellectually inferior on the average to other races?

If we accede to the fact that intelligence is heritable and we also agree that the environment places certain constraints on the individuals living within that environment, and these constraints influence the evolution of these individuals, then why can't we agree that intelligence should vary among human populations who evolved in different environments? Why do we oppose any claim that asserts the superiority or inferiority of a certain race in comparison to another race, when obviously they evolved in unique environments with unique constraints?

If we agree that natural selection is the vehicle that has driven genetic and phenotypical disparities evident in different races, why then do we oppose views that assert the disparities in intelligence, given the fact that intelligence has genetic underpinnings?

LoJ:
Hello everyone,

As someone who has grown up between africa and Europe and who knows very well both people, I see no evidence for this racialist theory of yours (no insult meant).

It is always easy to draw such conclusions, but also very false and superficial. First of all, what is intelligence? Any man of knowledge knows that intelligence is a big word with no meaning. What does it mean to be more intelligent? What is intelligence? Scientifically, IntelligenceS make more sense than Intelligence.

Indeed, there are various aspects and forms of intelligence. When you speak of intelligence you probably mean arithmetico-logico-memory based aspect of intelligence. The - memorizing long chapters formulas and quotes and apply them - aspect of intelligence. What of emotional intelligence? What of Social intelligence? What of artistic intelligence? What of natural intelligence?

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid" - A. Einstein.

Secondly, do you even consider the uprooting of the cultural foundation of africa? Should we overlook the profound impact of such sabotage on the great men and women of this continent?

Interestingly enough, I have studied all my life with white people, and I have only white men diplomas. And you guessed well, I was always the first, and most brilliant or at least top 3, even while I had to study in a 3rd foreign language.

Greetings.

Muafrika2:


If different environmental factors breed various forms of intelligence, why would anyone in their right senses look at one of those versions of intelligence as superior?

Very unintelligent way of thinking.

Trudax:


Why do you think so?

mansakhalifa:
I discovered a loophole in your argument where you said Sub-Saharan civilizations only exported raw materials in exchange for finished goods. I am doubly tempted to think that you,sire,have not been doing a lot of research as necessary. Reading Basil Davidson's book: The Growth of African Civilisation A History of Africa 1000-1800,I came across an excerpt from Leo Africanus' book regarding his travel through Gobir in Hausaland and it goes thus: 'They have many weavers and SHOE-MAKERS who make shoes like those that the Romans used to wear; and these they export to Timbuktu and Gao.' I will proceed to ask you now;are shoes not finished goods? I await your reply.

MightySparrow:
That is exactly my thinking. The level of undevelopment amongst blacks shows we don't understand the dynamics of human development.

More so there is nothing that originated from black race that is of global appreciation except poverty and wanton destuction of lives.

dalaman:


Based on a couple of things. I feel the Caucasians especially are intellectually superior to us because of the following points.

1. Their ability to organize themselves and solve their problems and challenges. We have not been able to solve any of our problems as a people. It takes superior intelligence to be able to come together and solve your problems they way they have.

2. Their ingenuity and creativity. They've created things and changed the world with their creativity and inventions in ways that we can not, period. Most of the knowledge of the world around us we got it because they first discovered or studied it.

3. Their leadership abilities. They have shown leadership abilities that we have been unable to show period. They've shown that they can lead themselves very well, while we have constantly displayed our inability to lead ourselves.

4. Their pace setting abilities and ability to convince others to follow their ways. We are all practicing their religions and culture(we speak their language and answer their names). They aren't practicing anything from us.

5. Their ability to dominate others. We have shown that we lack that completely.

I'll stop here even though there are more I can add.

Sarassin:


My point exactly! Just ask the Nazi's.

plaetton:


There has been a long scientific debate about nature vs nurture.
NATURE gives you, everyone, certain dispositions. But NURTURE( social/ cultural environment) can either foster or impede the expression of these dispositions.

Our social/ cultural setup impedes the intellectual potential.

Just look at Nigeria, for example, country that produces the best in almost Field of human endeavor the Diaspora, but has very serious, very chronic intellectual dearth back home, with everyone, old and young , still beholden to stone age superstitions from the middle East, embracing and hugging them as if they were our very own.

Look at our educational setup back home ,where my child's biology teacher, rather than taking and tasking her , step by step, on the wonder of photosynthesis, would rather the young minds that god is responsible for photosynthesis.

Or the 90 or so religious fellowships at kingebukasblog Delta State university.
Can you see that as with our forefathers, so it is today or even worse on the continual war against intellectualism in our society.

The African mind is rewired to be anti intellectual right from childhood.
Look at how many charlatans like Adeboye, Oyedepo, Mbaka there are in every nook and corner of Nigeria promoting magical thinking, an open war against intellectualism.

mansakhalifa:
Okay,shoes are not ingenious to the sub-Saharan civilization. I concur. But so were the goods they were importing from the outside world-namely Andalusia,other parts of Europe and Near East and Far East. Products like thoroughbred horses,hand-written books(these were also produced in Timbuktu at the time),jewelry and trinkets,swords(black Africans also produced those). All these were not ingenious to the civilizations they were imported from either,you see? And they were not that rare too I must add.

Probz:
bigfrancis21 does best on these kind of threads.

mansakhalifa:
I have always been of the opinion that the black man can match the feats of any other race and I remain unapologetic for holding that unwavering belief. No race is intellectually superior to the other-that in itself is a pure and pathetic fallacy held by those of us who just want to remain on the dust where others who don't believe in us want us. In the course of your argument you neglected one point when you mentioned the rise of the Chinese from oppression to global reckon. You neglected to note the fact that the Chinese did not begin to get things right until they tackled the knotty issue of leadership. Leadership is what holds a people back and renders them incapable of making any meaningful progress. And that is the case with Sub-Saharan Africa right now. This should confine any other arguments to the waste bin of irrelevance. My thoughts.

dalaman:


Based on a couple of things. I feel the Caucasians especially are intellectually superior to us because of the following points.

1. Their ability to organize themselves and solve their problems and challenges. We have not been able to solve any of our problems as a people. It takes superior intelligence to be able to come together and solve your problems they way they have.

2. Their ingenuity and creativity. They've created things and changed the world with their creativity and inventions in ways that we can not, period. Most of the knowledge of the world around us we got it because they first discovered or studied it.

3. Their leadership abilities. They have shown leadership abilities that we have been unable to show period. They've shown that they can lead themselves very well, while we have constantly displayed our inability to lead ourselves.

4. Their pace setting abilities and ability to convince others to follow their ways. We are all practicing their religions and culture(we speak their language and answer their names). They aren't practicing anything from us.

5. Their ability to dominate others. We have shown that we lack that completely.

I'll stop here even though there are more I can add.

KingEbukasBlog:


Continue promulgating your false dichotomy - Religion or Science - whereas the greatest minds and most decorated scientists past and present are religious people . Not just religious people but people who acknowledged the existence of God . Catholics brought modern science ; religious people brought philosophy ; everything concerning intellectualism was mostly founded by religious people , people who believed in God .

I still don't know why you pride yourself as an atheist . Atheism is vapid , soporific and has offered very little to the development of humanity - that's me acknowledging atheist philosophers and scientists who made picayune contributions to the advancement of knowledge- when compared to what the proponents of theism/deism have done .

The African mind is wired to be against intellectualism from childhood ? Where did civilization which has transformed humanity start from ? Africa . Who kickstarted it ? Africans . The oldest existing and operational educational institution in the world is the University of Karueein, founded in 859 AD in Fez, Morocco . Mensa Musa , the richest man that has ever lived , arguably though , is responsible for the growth of education in Mali and in Africa as far back as the 13th century. What about Ethiopian philosophy that was influenced by the ancient Greek philosophy ?

I think its high time you managed your drinking habit sir . Facts don't seem to agree with you at all .

plaetton:

You , perhaps are the best example of a system of education that soaks and drowns Young precious minds with garbage, stone age garbage, the equivalent of depleted uranium of the mental kind.
And I actually think you're naturally smart, but MENTALLY encumbered with unintellectual magical thinking.

Now, imagine youths much less smarter than yourself. Imagine what religious indoctrination greatly narrows and messes up their worldview.

bigfrancis21:


How did you know?

plaetton:

In a situation, where , for example, you had more than 90 different Churchian religious fellowships in your University campus, what room is left, who is left for unbiased intellectual pursuits, scientific curiosity, thinking beyond the religious Babble , asking critical questions about existence and the universe ?

Trudax:
Omohayek, I would like your views on this question.

omohayek:

If there is a problem with black Africans, it isn't anything to do with their biology, but with their continued obsession with religion and the supernatural, an obsession other parts of the world learned to shed 200 years ago. Combine this superstitious mindset with artificial colonial-era borders and rampant "tribalism" (ethnocentrism), and you have all the explanation you need for Africa's woes.

KingEbukasBlog:


I don't think you get the point . Your cavil holds no water because the men and women who have reached the apotheosis of intellectualism were the religiously indoctrinated ones ( religious used in the sense that they believed in God ) . While those at the lower levels were the atheists , the objects of ridicule by the religiously indoctrinated . Funny right ? Atheists in countries like North Korea Uruguay and Cuba are very narrow-minded and grossly vacuous . Why didn't their atheism expose them to an intellectual worldview or whet their scientific curiosity ?Plato , Aristotle , Thales were all drowned in the doctrines of Hellenistic polytheism yet ignited an intellectual revolution that resonated across the world . Do you know about ancient atheist Charvaka school in India and their ludicrous hedonistic principles ? Can you name just one member of that school that left an indelible mark in man's pursuit of knowledge . Just one .

Can't you see you are not making sense ? So the belief there is no god automatically makes one a thinker , a genius , a rationalist ? You must be joking

KingEbukasBlog:

What?!