ken4christ, you're write ups are cool, but I still believe the word "preserve" in this context is wrong. No doubt that good works are of high importance in christianity but as to the preservation or keeping of salvation, works cannot preserve what grace gives. Even the works themselves are by-products of grace (Titus 2:11-12). God Himself has the sole responsibility of preserving what He gives "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless...." (Jude:24). "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1Peter 1:5). Works in itself are more like signs for men and not for God (Matt 5:16). God has called us unto good works to the glory of His name (1Peter 2:12), not unto the preservation of our salvation. He will keep me and preserve me and I will live my life according as He pleases in appreciation.

plainbibletruth:

Did you read my first paragraph where I wrote: "Salvation is a package with so many things in it.?

And now you're saying I'm "looking at salvation as justification only"?

I think it's good not to be rushing to push your points without taking time to carefully read through others' posts.

Perhaps you need to go back and do that with my post.

I read you post from top to bottom as I always to when I respond to people on nairaland.

you said and I quote
salvation is a package with so many things in it...

Redemption, regeneration, justification, propitiation,
imputation, forgiveness, etc

I read it and immediately noticed you mentioned redemption, propitiation, both are works Christ did on the cross, in redemption he bought us back by paying the price of our sins, propitiation is a sacrificial term denoting how Jesus satisfied the demands of Justice by offering to his father a worthy sacrifice... those has nothing to do with works done in grace so they don't relate to the thread... you mentioned regeneration, forgiveness, imputation they all are related to as fall under justification....


what you didn't mention in the most telling, you neither mentioned sanctification nor glorification... in fact you skipped the parts of salvation that dealt with works done in grace and only mentioned the topics that relate exclusively to the works of Jesus and justification... that is why I feel justified in saying you consider salvation mainly in terms of justification.

so let me ask you,
do you consider salvation to include our judgement or not?

do you consider salvation as a one time only event?

joshnes:
ken4christ, you're write ups are cool, but I still believe the word "preserve" in this context is wrong. No doubt that good works are of high importance in christianity but as to the preservation or keeping of salvation, works cannot preserve what grace gives. Even the works themselves are by-products of grace (Titus 2:11-12). God Himself has the sole responsibility of preserving what He gives "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless...." (Jude:24). "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1Peter 1:5). Works in itself are more like signs for men and not for God (Matt 5:16). God has called us unto good works to the glory of His name (1Peter 2:12), not unto the preservation of our salvation. He will keep me and preserve me and I will live my life according as He pleases in appreciation.

This is gospel as simple as ABC and I've been preaching the same thing. Some folks here are just out to say whatever they like to say. Thank you!

joshnes:
ken4christ, you're write ups are cool, but I still believe the word "preserve" in this context is wrong. No doubt that good works are of high importance in christianity but as to the preservation or keeping of salvation, works cannot preserve what grace gives. Even the works themselves are by-products of grace (Titus 2:11-12). God Himself has the sole responsibility of preserving what He gives "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless...." (Jude:24). "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1Peter 1:5). Works in itself are more like signs for men and not for God (Matt 5:16). God has called us unto good works to the glory of His name (1Peter 2:12), not unto the preservation of our salvation. He will keep me and preserve me and I will live my life according as He pleases in appreciation.

I understand your submission. Perhaps, the word preserve is took strong to express my point. But most Christians are so complacent in their service to God. For instance, you see someone who claims to be born again and even tongue speaking not doing anything in the house of God after several years of conversion. Such person stands the risk of losing his salvation. He can be likened to a wicked and lazy servant Jesus spoke about in his parable of the talent.

Even Apostle Paul warned that those who habitually miss Church services will suffer more severe punishment than similar offenders under the older covenant - Hebrews 10:25-31.

Remember the letters Jesus wrote to the Churches in Asia minor. His emphasis was on works.

I can say in summary that we are saved by grace but we will be judged by our works. So many will be rewarded more than others. Quite a few others will be completely disqualified.

The issue of right living will of course also come in.

Goshen360:


This is gospel as simple as ABC and I've been preaching the same thing. Some folks here are just out to say whatever they like to say. Thank you!

I hope you are aware that the fact that you teach same doesn't make it true.

if you think some folks are saying what they like then man up and rebut/refute them

joshnes:
ken4christ, you're write ups are cool, but I still believe the word "preserve" in this context is wrong. No doubt that good works are of high importance in christianity but as to the preservation or keeping of salvation, works cannot preserve what grace gives. Even the works themselves are by-products of grace (Titus 2:11-12). God Himself has the sole responsibility of preserving what He gives "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless...." (Jude:24). "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1Peter 1:5). Works in itself are more like signs for men and not for God (Matt 5:16). God has called us unto good works to the glory of His name (1Peter 2:12), not unto the preservation of our salvation. He will keep me and preserve me and I will live my life according as He pleases in appreciation.

God calls us to good works not just to give glory to himself but also that through it he may attain unto so great a salvation (glory), that we were promise.

John 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son
has eternal life; whoever does not obey
the Son shall not see life, but the wrath
of God remains on him

don't be deceived by any that you are not under wrath if you live in disobedience. he who believes must be careful to obey.


in fact good works is a reason for which we were created.
Ephesians 2:8-10

it will be the basis for eternal life or wrath.
Romans 2:6-10 ESV
He will render to each one according to his works: to
those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory
and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey
the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be
wrath and fury.


lastly you are correct that God himself preserves our salvation and the Bible tells us how he does it, he multiply his grace in us so that we may not be wanting in good works.


Philippians 2:13 ESV
For it is God who works in you, both to will and to
work for his good pleasure.

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound to you,
so that always having all sufficiency in everything,
you may have an abundance for every good deed;

ken4christ thanks for your last quote. Works as you said determine reward, not salvation. Hence some christians will be rewarded more than others. Once you accept Christ, you're saved, works will not increase or reduce your salvation. If works could save or preserve salvation then it will be useless preaching to a dying man, because, he will not have the chance to work. Salvation is an inheritance not a reward. You don't work for an inheritance you are born (again) into it, but you will have to work for a reward.

I am sorry ubenedictus but you're wrong. Firstly, works will not make you attain salvation, belief in Jesus gives salvation. Eternal life is not a reward, but an inheritance. You don't work for an inheritance, you're born into it, in this case born again into it. Works determine reward not salvation. If works makes you attain salvation, then it will be useless for anyone to accept Christ on a death bed. Secondly, I never supported disobedience, if you read what you quoted well I said works are highly important for a christian, highly important. Works are an offshoot of your faith, you can't say you're saved and revel in disobedience. Jesus Himself went about doing good but, works will not enhance or reduce your salvation, definitely influence your reward.

joshnes:
ken4christ thanks for your last quote. Works as you said determine reward, not salvation. Hence some christians will be rewarded more than others. Once you accept Christ, you're saved, works will not increase or reduce your salvation. If works could save or preserve salvation then it will be useless preaching to a dying man, because, he will not have the chance to work. Salvation is an inheritance not a reward. You don't work for an inheritance you are born (again) into it, but you will have to work for a reward.

But on account of completely worthless works, some believers will miss heaven altogether. Don't you believe this? The warning of Apostle Paula in Hebrews 10:25-31 is one witness to that fact. The letter of Jesus to the Laodicean Church is another witness.

Ubenedictus:


God calls us to good works not just to give glory to himself but also that through it he may attain unto so great a salvation (glory), that we were promise.

John 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son
has eternal life; whoever does not obey
the Son shall not see life, but the wrath
of God remains on him

don't be deceived by any that you are not under wrath if you live in disobedience. he who believes must be careful to obey.


in fact good works is a reason for which we were created.
Ephesians 2:8-10

it will be the basis for eternal life or wrath.
Romans 2:6-10 ESV
He will render to each one according to his works: to
those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory
and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey
the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be
wrath and fury.


lastly you are correct that God himself preserves our salvation and the Bible tells us how he does it, he multiply his grace in us so that we may not be wanting in good works.


Philippians 2:13 ESV
For it is God who works in you, both to will and to
work for his good pleasure.

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound to you,
so that always having all sufficiency in everything,
you may have an abundance for every good deed;

There Are those who also will fall away from the faith. Grace becomes effective when We do the right things.

What about those who completely withdraw through commitment to God. The Bible says they do so to their own destructions - Hebrews 10:38-39.

Ken4Christ:


There Are those who also will fall away from the faith. Grace becomes effective when We do the right things.

What about those who completely withdraw through commitment to God. The Bible says they do so to their own destructions - Hebrews 10:38-39.

Amen

joshnes:
I am sorry ubenedictus but you're wrong. Firstly, works will not make you attain salvation, belief in Jesus gives salvation. Eternal life is not a reward, but an inheritance. You don't work for an inheritance, you're born into it, in this case born again into it. Works determine reward not salvation. If works makes you attain salvation, then it will be useless for anyone to accept Christ on a death bed. Secondly, I never supported disobedience, if you read what you quoted well I said works are highly important for a christian, highly important. Works are an offshoot of your faith, you can't say you're saved and revel in disobedience. Jesus Himself went about doing good but, works will not enhance or reduce your salvation, definitely influence your reward.

Firstly I never claimed works make people attain salvation. especially when you seem to talk of salvation mainly as justification.

In fact what I believe is different.

I believe, man is saved by Grace through faith apart from works, that is justification. I also believe that man is saved so that he may perform the good work for which God foreordained him to walk in just as the apostle Paul teach.
I also agree with scriptures as it says who who does righteous deeds is righteous and that falls under sanctification. then finally I believe as scripture teaches that will grant eternal life to those who do righteous deeds and damn those who live in sin
Romans 2:6-10 ESV
He will render to each one according to his works: to
those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory
and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey
the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be
wrath and fury.

as such eternal life in heaven is both inheritance and reward.
Romans 8:17
and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow
heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so
that we may also be glorified with Him.

note the Conditional If
Colossians 3:23-24
Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the
Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the
Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance
It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.
the Bible calls it REWARD OF INHERITANCE, the inheritance is a reward.


work do impart you salvation, one who is saved but doesn't work has refused to fulfill the very reason for which God created him infact such a persons faith will not save him.

.

joshnes:
ken4christ thanks for your last quote. Works as you said determine reward, not salvation. Hence some christians will be rewarded more than others. Once you accept Christ, you're saved, works will not increase or reduce your salvation. If works could save or preserve salvation then it will be useless preaching to a dying man, because, he will not have the chance to work. Salvation is an inheritance not a reward. You don't work for an inheritance you are born (again) into it, but you will have to work for a reward.

salvation is both inheritance and reward

Colossians 3:23-24
Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the
Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the
Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance
It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

Ubenedictus:
salvation is both inheritance and reward

Colossians 3:23-24
Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the
Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the
Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance
It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

"reward of the inheritance", that is reward of the salvation. There are rewards attached to your works if you're saved. If salvation is a reward, then it can't be an inheritance, you either work for it or not.

ubenedictus, this is clearer, but the description in Rom 2:9-10, can't be of christians, that description is for unbelievers. I believe we are SAVED for good works. There are things we need to do as christians to maintain our new nature and all these things are found in God. All. Victory above sin is given by God, even though we have our parts to play. The works we are referring to we do them by God (Phil 2:12-13). No doubt that works are important, but they are only important for the salvation of the soul and not the spirit. A dying man who surrenders to Christ will go to heaven without any works, why? Because, his spirit is saved, there is no need for works to do that.

Ubenedictus:
do you want to tell us those who taught such before Calvin?

bro its even on Wikipedia that he didn't start pls Google it ....... am sincere ....

joshnes:
ubenedictus, this is clearer, but the description in Rom 2:9-10, can't be of christians, that description is for unbelievers. I believe we are SAVED for good works. There are things we need to do as christians to maintain our new nature and all these things are found in God. All. Victory above sin is given by God, even though we have our parts to play. The works we are referring to we do them by God (Phil 2:12-13). No doubt that works are important, but they are only important for the salvation of the soul and not the spirit. A dying man who surrenders to Christ will go to heaven without any works, why? Because, his spirit is saved, there is no need for works to do that.

lolz man is a spirit lolz KENNETH HAGIN AT IT AGAIN

Ferisidowu:

bro its even on Wikipedia that he didn't start pls Google it ....... am sincere ....

give me a name na

Ubenedictus:
give me a name na

. names were not written , it's not a issue priority if you believe me or not, basically my questions are
1) do you believe the five points of Calvinism

2) how are you justified, by Faith or works?

3) can you be justified by both?

4) the gentiles living contemporary to Abraham , how would they be declared righteous?

Ferisidowu:
. names were not written , it's not a issue priority if you believe me or not, basically my questions are
1) do you believe the five points of Calvinism

2) how are you justified, by Faith or works?

3) can you be justified by both?

4) the gentiles living contemporary to Abraham , how would they be declared righteous?

all you have to do is show me anyone who taught Calvinism before Calvin... that's all.

1. No, I do not accept doctrines of men invented 1500 years after the death of the apostles and then read into scripture. in fact that is my definition for heresy.

2.3. no one is initially justified by both, we are justified by Grace according to God's mercy through the merits of Christ, and it is applied to us through Faith usually in baptism WITHOUT works done by human strength. that is how Christians have taught it for 2000 years.

4. to all who had faith in the one true God it was reckoned as righteousness. to those who didn't have that much faith Paul teaches

Indeed, when Gentiles,
who do not have the law, do by nature things
required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law. They
show that the requirements of the law are written
on their hearts, their consciences also bearing
witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing
them and at other times even defending them.)
This will take place on the day when God
judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as
my gospel declares.


and

To those who by persistence in
doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he
will give eternal life. But for those who are self-
seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil,
there will be wrath and anger.

Ubenedictus

all you have to do is show me anyone who taught Calvinism before Calvin... that's all.

1. No, I do not accept doctrines of men invented 1500 years after the death of the apostles and then read into scripture. in fact that is my definition for heresy.

Lolz anyways I'd like you to show me the doctrines and the things wrong with it

I'm very sure none of his doctrines are heretic

.

2.3. no one is initially justified by both, we are justified by Grace according to God's mercy through the merits of Christ, and it is applied to us through Faith usually in baptism WITHOUT works done by human strength. that is how Christians have taught it for 2000 years.

Oh really, and you can condemn Calvinism ... Yet you claim we are justified by Grace according to God's mercy through the merits of Christ ..
Now I ask you, is Grace the same as works?

Do all know this Grace, does the Grace move them to believe Jesus..

Are all changed by this Grace?

4. to all who had faith in the one true God it was reckoned as righteousness. to those who didn't have that much faith Paul teaches

Lolz no wonder you condemn Calvinism, how can the people contemporary to Abraham have faith in the true God which they never knew, were they not idolaters
Even Abraham was an idolater before God called him, did God call all the people in Abraham's father's house?
Did God commune with people like he did with Abraham?
Could God not send Abraham to go about preaching the gospel to others? Did God do that? So you think God can be resisted like those ARMINIANS OF ARMINIANISM.

MAYBE YOU EVEN ARMINIAN?

Indeed, when Gentiles,
who do not have the law, do by nature things
required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law. They
show that the requirements of the law are written
on their hearts, their consciences also bearing
witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing
them and at other times even defending them.)
This will take place on the day when God
judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as
my gospel declares.

And what does this change, people contemporary to Abraham that were not given the Grace will never be justified, even if they have the law in their hearts ... The only means to justification is Christ Jesus

and

To those who by persistence in
doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he
will give eternal life. But for those who are self-
seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil,
there will be wrath and anger.

Lolz now justification is by works, ryt, and also I understand this your point to mean that Christ isn't the ONLY WAY. Since those contemporary to Abraham can be justified by their works, then 1) it's useless that God called Abraham.
2) and also that Christ had not been crucified since the foundation of the world

Can there be eternal life without Jesus?

This verse you quoted is out of justification context

We are saved only by Christ not works.........

Although some people contemporary to Abraham were good yet that doesn't justify them, it's a prove that
The law is written in their hearts...

joshnes:
ubenedictus, this is clearer, but the description in Rom 2:9-10, can't be of christians, that description is for unbelievers. I believe we are SAVED for good works. There are things we need to do as christians to maintain our new nature and all these things are found in God. All. Victory above sin is given by God, even though we have our parts to play. The works we are referring to we do them by God (Phil 2:12-13). No doubt that works are important, but they are only important for the salvation of the soul and not the spirit. A dying man who surrenders to Christ will go to heaven without any works, why? Because, his spirit is saved, there is no need for works to do that.

my dear the description in RM 2:9 relates to the standard of God in judgement both for Jews, Christian and gentile it tally with Matthew 15. you will enter heaven or be barred on the basis of works... that is a Gospel truth.

we are saved For good works which God foreordained for us to walk in so that on the last day when we are asked we will present works done in Christ for scripture is clear the basis for heaven or hell is works.

Ubenedictus:


my dear the description in RM 2:9 relates to the standard of God in judgement both for Jews, Christian and gentile it tally with Matthew 15. you will enter heaven or be barred on the basis of works... that is a Gospel truth.

we are saved For good works which God foreordained for us to walk in so that on the last day when we are asked we will present works done in Christ for scripture is clear the basis for heaven or hell is works.

OK, lemme ask you again, what will happen to someone that gives his life to Christ just before he dies?

Ubenedictus:


my dear the description in RM 2:9 relates to the standard of God in judgement both for Jews, Christian and gentile it tally with Matthew 15. you will enter heaven or be barred on the basis of works... that is a Gospel truth.

we are saved For good works which God foreordained for us to walk in so that on the last day when we are asked we will present works done in Christ for scripture is clear the basis for heaven or hell is works.

oga what are you saying? Human works is never need for salvation nether is good works needed.
Do you know the meaning of a gift? If you contributed something to get the gift is it a gift again?
@ bold where is that written?
If people will be barred from heaven on the basis of works then nobody will enter heaven not even Abraham.

Ferisidowu:


Lolz anyways I'd like you to show me the doctrines and the things wrong with it

I'm very sure none of his doctrines are heretic

.

Oh really, and you can condemn Calvinism ... Yet you claim we are justified by Grace according to God's mercy through the merits of Christ ..
Now I ask you, is Grace the same as works?

Do all know this Grace, does the Grace move them to believe Jesus..

Are all changed by this Grace?




Lolz no wonder you condemn Calvinism, how can the people contemporary to Abraham have faith in the true God which they never knew, were they not idolaters
Even Abraham was an idolater before God called him, did God call all the people in Abraham's father's house?
Did God commune with people like he did with Abraham?
Could God not send Abraham to go about preaching the gospel to others? Did God do that? So you think God can be resisted like those ARMINIANS OF ARMINIANISM.

MAYBE YOU EVEN ARMINIAN?



And what does this change, people contemporary to Abraham that were not given the Grace will never be justified, even if they have the law in their hearts ... The only means to justification is Christ Jesus





Lolz now justification is by works, ryt, and also I understand this your point to mean that Christ isn't the ONLY WAY. Since those contemporary to Abraham can be justified by their works, then 1) it's useless that God called Abraham.
2) and also that Christ had not been crucified since the foundation of the world

Can there be eternal life without Jesus?

This verse you quoted is out of justification context

We are saved only by Christ not works.........

Although some people contemporary to Abraham were good yet that doesn't justify them, it's a prove that
The law is written in their hearts...

my dear I asked a question you have not answered.


please show Christians who taught Calvinism before Calvin and I'll gladly address these points.


I hate a one sided discussion.

solite3:
oga what are you saying? Human works is never need for salvation nether is good works needed.
Do you know the meaning of a gift? If you contributed something to get the gift is it a gift again?
@ bold where is that written?
If people will be barred from heaven on the basis of works then nobody will enter heaven not even Abraham.

the m
basis for justification is grace through faith in Christ merits.

the basis for judgement is works, not faith, that is the basis every one will be judged. God saves us by faith unto good works and will judge us on those works

Matthew 25
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou
wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I
reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have
not strawed:
Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money
to the exchangers, and then at my coming I
should have received mine own with usury.
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it
unto him which hath ten talents.
For unto every one that hath shall be given,
and he shall have abundance: but from him that
hath not shall be taken away even that which he
hath.
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer
darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.
When the Son of man shall come in his glory,
and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit
upon the throne of his glory:
And before him shall be gathered all nations:
and he shall separate them one from another, as a
shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand,
but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right
hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the
kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of
the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I
was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a
stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye
visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying,
Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed
thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee
in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and
came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them,
Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it
unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye
have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left
hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting
fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no
meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked,
and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye
visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord,
when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a
stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did
not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say
unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the
least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting
punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

John 5:28-29 , Jesus says, “…
for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the
tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth;
those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of
life, those who committed the evil deeds to a
resurrection of judgment.”
Matthew 16:27 , Jesus says, “For the Son of Man is
going to come in the glory of His Father with His
angels, and will then repay every man according to
his deeds.”
2 Cor. 5:10 , “For we must all appear before the
judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be
recompensed for his deeds in the body, according
to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
Galatians 6:7-8 , “Do not be deceived, God is not
mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also
reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will
from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who
sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal
life.”

joshnes:
OK, lemme ask you again, what will happen to someone that gives his life to Christ just before he dies?

he goes to heaven!

all his sins are wiped clean, he possess righteousness of Christ and is a friend of God and a son of God.

he has no evil works, he possess the good works of Christ.

God only damns the evil, his evil has been wiped clean, he will enter heaven on Christ's righteousness.

Ubenedictus:
he goes to heaven!

all his sins are wiped clean, he possess righteousness of Christ and is a friend of God and a son of God.

he has no evil works, he possess the good works of Christ.

God only damns the evil, his evil has been wiped clean, he will enter heaven on Christ's righteousness.

but a christian can't enter heaven on Christ righteousness alone? He/she must add his own righteousness? What is the difference (if any) in heaven between the man that accepted Jesus on his death bed and the one who worked out his salvation with fear and trembling?

Ubenedictus:


my dear I asked a question you have not answered.


please show Christians who taught Calvinism before Calvin and I'll gladly address these points.


I hate a one sided discussion.

alright I Don't know their names, let's even assume that Calvin was an heretic...

answer the questions

Ferisidowu:


alright I Don't know their names, let's even assume that Calvin was an heretic...

answer the questions

OK, happily.

Ubenedictus:

OK, happily.

I'm waiting for your answers

joshnes:
but a christian can't enter heaven on Christ righteousness alone? He/she must add his own righteousness? What is the difference (if any) in heaven between the man that accepted Jesus on his death bed and the one who worked out his salvation with fear and trembling?

if I get your point, you are contradicting yourself..

now tell me,

the one that accepted Jesus on his death bed, how did he enter? how did he work out his salvation?