PastorAIO:


I really like your resolution to interact with civility.

I no that some have interpreted it to mean that he was not going yet and doctored the texts accordingly. But we have ancient sources where pagans had pointed at this very verse to show a mendacious Jesus and at the time the word 'yet' was not in the text.

Pagans, atheists, reprobates, Sadducees, Pharisees, blasphemers and hardened sinners will always pick holes in the Scriptures to arrive at their preconceived end of discrediting the Saviour, Who saved me. But they do so to their utter doom. The God Who saved me is still in the business of saving sinners. May the Lord extend mercy and saving grace to such I J N, Amen.

UnchangeableGod:
I am a Christian. So I don't insult people for their opinions

some like aio find truth insulting
and even hate and blaspheme the Truth, saying He lied etc.etc.etc.

and even if you were to insult such a one, would it mean you are not a christian


Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

^^^ the scribes and Pharisees would have found Jesus words there insulting,
but they were true

UnchangeableGod:
Pagans, atheists, reprobates, Sadducees, Pharisees, blasphemers and hardened sinners will always pick holes in the Scriptures to arrive at their preconceived end of discrediting the Saviour, Who saved me. But they do so to their utter doom. The God Who saved me is still in the business of saving sinners. May the Lord extend mercy and saving grace to such I J N, Amen.

if you cannot establish your position from a common perspective then you'll always remain in a bubble arguing points against yourself.

My religion is such that o can break it down for anyone based on their own life experiences, not by making claims for a book that only you consider to be an authority.

You don't have to be a specialist believer to be healed by medical science. Or discuss the ideas and principles behind medicine.

However one has to accept without experience a great deal of stuff before they can even have a conversation with you. This is why I think my position superior to yours.

PastorAIO:



if you cannot establish your position from a common perspective then you'll always remain in a bubble arguing points against yourself.

My religion is such that o can break it down for anyone based on their own life experiences, not by making claims for a book that only you consider to be an authority.

You don't have to be a specialist believer to be healed by medical science. Or discuss the ideas and principles behind medicine.

However one has to accept without experience a great deal of stuff before they can even have a conversation with you. This is why I think my position superior to yours.

Sorry, you can only understand my perspective if you have experienced the salvation which I have gotten by His grace. My experience has only confirmed the veracity of the Book, yes the Bible. It is simply because you are not yet saved, (which I pray God you will before you die) that you are arguing this way, from a point of ignorance. I was once like you, then I thought as you do now. I pray you experience what I have, then your thinking will change. I am not after winning any arguments. I am after helping you out from self chosen destructive way, which will ultimately lead to eternal misery. The point: God is against lying. All unrepentant liars and sinners will be forever doomed. Thank God, there is hope for you and others: Jesus Christ, the Saviour. Thank you.

johnw74:


some like aio find truth insulting
and even hate and blaspheme the Truth, saying He lied etc.etc.etc.

and even if you were to insult such a one, would it mean you are not a christian


Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

^^^ the scribes and Pharisees would have found Jesus words there insulting,
but they were true

Sir, we have the divine assignment to help those in need of the Saviour to come to Him. We need not insult anyone irrespective of their blasphemous and sacrilegious statements. We need to prove that there is something we have which they don't - the grace of God. It is not really their making. The enemy is holding them captive. So we need to demonstrate meekness while reaching out to the unsaved (2nd Timothy 2:24-26). God bless you.

UnchangeableGod:
Sorry, you can only understand my perspective if you have experienced the salvation which I have gotten by His grace. My experience has only confirmed the veracity of the Book, yes the Bible. It is simply because you are not yet saved, (which I pray God you will before you die) that you are arguing this way, from a point of ignorance. I was once like you, then I thought as you do now. I pray you experience what I have, then your thinking will change. I am not after winning any arguments. I am after helping you out from self chosen destructive way, which will ultimately lead to eternal misery. The point: God is against lying. All unrepentant liars and sinners will be forever doomed. Thank God, there is hope for you and others: Jesus Christ, the Saviour. Thank you.

And that bolded part is my point exactly. You can only argue with yourself. What you argue is the same for Igbo smokers. If you haven't smoked igbo you can never understand their perspective. A sober man will never understand why the Crack smoker jumped out of the window.

If you want to have a discussion with someone else there needs to be a common ground. And if you can build your arguments from the common ground you share with your discussant you can take him along.

UnchangeableGod:
We need to prove that there is something we have which they don't - the grace of God.

UnchangeableGod:
Sorry, you can only understand my perspective if you have experienced the salvation which I have gotten by His grace.

How are you going to assuage your 'need to prove' when you already believe that your perspective cannot be understood by those you need to prove to?

PastorAIO:



And that bolded part is my point exactly. You can only argue with yourself. What you argue is the same for Igbo smokers. If you haven't smoked igbo you can never understand their perspective. A sober man will never understand why the Crack smoker jumped out of the window.

If you want to have a discussion with someone else there needs to be a common ground. And if you can build your arguments from the common ground you share with your discussant you can take him along.

I am not after arguments. I am after your soul being saved. But since you are more concerned with semantics and winning of arguments, best of luck sir. My message still remains: all liars and other sinners must repent and turn to Christ for salvation so as not to be damned in eternity. God bless you.

PastorAIO:




How are you going to assuage your 'need to prove' when you already believe that your perspective cannot be understood by those you need to prove to?

Sir, it was partly the good example I saw in a Christian that led me to salvation. I believe good example can inspire you and your likes to accept the truth and be saved ( which has always been my emphasis) except you have crossed the line. You do not need to understand everything before you can be converted. But after you are saved you will fully understand sir. Thanks.

UnchangeableGod:
Sir, it was partly the good example I saw in a Christian that led me to salvation. I believe good example can inspire you and your likes to accept the truth and be saved ( which has always been my emphasis) except you have crossed the line. You do not need to understand everything before you can be converted. But after you are saved you will fully understand sir. Thanks.

Please, Tell us more about the good example.

UnchangeableGod:
I am not after arguments. I am after your soul being saved. But since you are more concerned with semantics and winning of arguments, best of luck sir. My message still remains: all liars and other sinners must repent and turn to Christ for salvation so as not to be damned in eternity. God bless you.

It's not about winning arguments. It is about communication. If you are sure that someone cannot understand you...

Sorry, you can only understand my perspective if you have experienced the salvation

Then why go on about your 'message'.

UnchangeableGod:
I'm sorry to say, it appears you just want to be, sorry to say, mischievous. God dealt well with the midwives for not carrying out an evil decree against His people even at the risk of their lives, families and professions. That is faith. But you would rather see it that it was because of their 'lies'. Well, you are a free moral agent. Thank you.

This is not a matter of "rather see". The bible states explicitly that they saved the Israelites by lying. You cannot separate how they were saved from the fact they were saved.

UnchangeableGod:
Sir, we have the divine assignment to help those in need of the Saviour to come to Him. We need not insult anyone irrespective of their blasphemous and sacrilegious statements. We need to prove that there is something we have which they don't - the grace of God. It is not really their making. The enemy is holding them captive. So we need to demonstrate meekness while reaching out to the unsaved (2nd Timothy 2:24-26). God bless you.

that way is part of it.


so you like aio think the truth I speak is insulting, even though Jesus on ocassions spoke the same way, ok

was Jesus being meek when saying this to the unsaved:

Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

you don't use meekness on those that say God lies,
and who twist God's word to suit their unbibical beliefs etc. etc.
these are not looking for salvation, they are happy to have satan as their god, or have no god at all

Jesus said not to throw your pearls before that kind

johnw74:

some like aio find truth insulting
and even hate and blaspheme the Truth, saying He lied etc.etc.etc.

and even if you were to insult such a one, would it mean you are not a christian


Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

^^^ the scribes and Pharisees would have found Jesus words there insulting,
but they were true

johnw74:



that way is part of it.


so you like aio think the truth I speak is insulting, even though Jesus on ocassions spoke the same way, ok

was Jesus being meek when saying this to the unsaved:

Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

you don't use meekness on those that say God lies,
and who twist God's word to suit their unbibical beliefs etc. etc.
these are not looking for salvation, they are happy to have satan as their god, or have no god at all

Jesus said not to throw your pearls before that kind

Sir, you and I are not Christ. His motives were and are always right. Yes, we are to be Christ-like. But we need to be careful not to take it personal. That is the difference between us Christians and certain religious fanatics who fight for their deity. Moreover, this is a social medium. The messages and impressions we create here are not only for the blasphemers and gainsayers. Thank you.

PastorAIO:



It's not about winning arguments. It is about communication. If you are sure that someone cannot understand you...



Then why go on about your 'message'.

Sir, if you make your mind not to accept my message, there might be others who do. So my messages here are not only targeted at you. Sorry, to bore you with my salvation story again. The message that got me saved was not directed at me but since I listened too and had been challenged by the life of the preacher, I accepted, believed and got saved. May you be saved too I J N, Amen.

PastorAIO:


This is not a matter of "rather see". The bible states explicitly that they saved the Israelites by lying. You cannot separate how they were saved from the fact they were saved.

That is not the point sir. The point is that you blasphemed God that He rewarded the midwives for lying whereas they were rewarded for their refusal to obey an evil decree from a tyrannical and desperate Pharaoh at the risk of their lives. They were rewarded for their faith. If lying was involved in their heroic acts, the 'lies' are still sinful and never justified. If the same were to happen under my leadership, I would praise the heroic act but rebuke the 'lies' if any. I would then suggest a more righteous way of going about it next time. I know that God is holier and more righteous than I can ever be. Thank you.

PastorAIO:


Please, Tell us more about the good example.

I can't remember all the details now. But the young man was really humble, temperate, fair, hated the sinful practices some of us engaged in but never judged any of us, refused compromises against his faith, was prayerful, diligent in Bible studying, diligent on his work as well etc. His life challenged me. I thought I was a good person. But his life challenged me to seek for what he had and by the grace of God, I got it and by His grace I will keep it till I get to heaven I J N, Amen.

UnchangeableGod:
Sir, if you make your mind not to accept my message, there might be others who do. So my messages here are not only targeted at you. Sorry, to bore you with my salvation story again. The message that got me saved was not directed at me but since I listened too and had been challenged by the life of the preacher, I accepted, believed and got saved. May you be saved too I J N, Amen.

You haven't told me your salvation story yet so you haven't bored me yet.

I'm keen to hear it. But you're the one who says that I cannot understand your perspective because I have not had your experience. Alas this is true for everybody and everything. Just like a sober man cannot understand a crack fiend's perspective.

UnchangeableGod:
That is not the point sir. The point is that you blasphemed God that He rewarded the midwives for lying whereas they were rewarded for their refusal to obey an evil decree from a tyrannical and desperate Pharaoh at the risk of their lives. They were rewarded for their faith. If lying was involved in their heroic acts, the 'lies' are still sinful and never justified. If the same were to happen under my leadership, I would praise the heroic act but rebuke the 'lies' if any. I would then suggest a more righteous way of going about it next time. I know that God is holier and more righteous than I can ever be. Thank you.

But that is exactly the point.

That is the point of this entire thread. The question is whether there can be a righteous lie.

You are trying to separate the means from the end but it doesn't work.

You shall not bring the hire of a LovePeddler, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD your God for any vow: for even both these are abomination to the LORD your God. - Deuteronomy 23:18

What you are saying by analogy is that God would accept the money from prostitution even though he disagrees with prostitution.

Jesus said Good tree cannot bear bad fruit. If the Means is wrong. The End will be wrong too.

I did not blaspheme any god. It was the Bible that said he rewarded the midwives. If you consider that blasphemous then you ought to take it up with the bible.



I think I can see the pattern of how your brain is working...

Most people have certain key Pillars of their Thoughts which once established everything else has to fit around it as best they can including facts.

In other words if you have as a pillar of your thought system the belief that lying is a sin, then the fact that Rahab was commended has to be twisted to fit into the thought system.

This pattern of thinking is discussed here:

https://www.nairaland.com/839087/matter-interpretations

PastorAIO:

Text and the never ending interpretations that we can extract from it.

I was just looking at the process and this is how I think it works.

First there is the Axiom, or particular belief of the interpreter. This is often supported by a literal reading of some portion of the bible.


Once this has been accepted then everything else that is in the bible is interpreted to fit in wth the Axiom. Even things that are literal contradictions will be forcibly interpreted in such a way to make it fit the axiom. There is no limit to human ingenuity when it comes to doing this.

UnchangeableGod:
I can't remember all the details now. But the young man was really humble, temperate, fair, hated the sinful practices some of us engaged in but never judged any of us, refused compromises against his faith, was prayerful, diligent in Bible studying, diligent on his work as well etc. His life challenged me. I thought I was a good person. But his life challenged me to seek for what he had and by the grace of God, I got it and by His grace I will keep it till I get to heaven I J N, Amen.

I've met people like this from all religions. In fact if I were to think like you I would initiate to become a babalawo. Some of them are the most humble and 'righteous' people that I've ever met. (at least in my perception, but who knows what's really in the heart of men).

PastorAIO:


Telling her that her son died peacefully when in fact he was tortured to dead by ISIS.

The lie helped her to cope with the loss.

And you feel she will feel much better when she eventually discovers that you lied to her?

PastorAIO:


So neither part is a lie.

Na context you wan yarn now.

A text without a context is a pretext.

OLAADEGBU:


A text without a context is a pretext.

As you keep telling us, and I wholehearted agree with you.

OLAADEGBU:


And you feel she will feel much better when she eventually discovers that you lied to her?

2 scenarios.

one, she never finds out.

two, she finds out and feels anguish in which case the lie didn't work because we couldn't uphold it.


The only way anything bad can happen is if the lie is exposed and thus ceases to work.

All Spirits are of The Supreme Spirit and are used as The Lord pleases.

PastorAIO:


In other words we can perhaps take the position that the ten commandments don't forbid lying, but forbid bearing False witness. i.e lies that can harm another person. It applies to the making of oaths and judicial cases.

It's the intention to harm....

Lying is forbidden in the Decalogue, what part of that don't you understand?

OLAADEGBU:


Lying is forbidden in the Decalogue, what part of that don't you understand?

The part where it specifies that the lie should not be used as a Witness/evidence against 'your neighbour'.

If you see a sign saying: DO NOT DEFECATE HERE

Will you conclude that the sign says you must never defecate again. Or do you recognise that it specifies that it is only in that position that defecation is wrong.



Out of curiosity, the decalogue also says 'thou shalt not covet your neighbour's servants'. Is it against the law to headhunt skilled workers from other companies? Or perhaps the servant in this case is not a paid servant and, while a tacit approval of slavery, it forbids the stealing away of slaves from their masters (if the masters are israelites too).
But this is a tangent.

back to bearing false witness against the neighbour, What do you understand by the hebrew word ‘êḏ , and what it it's place in the commandment that you are referring to.



Then of course there is the issue of whether the Lie was an 'honest mistake' or whether it was done with the intention to deceive, and further whether the intention to deceive was to cause harm or to avoid harm.

The point I want to arrive at eventually, though I doubt you'll reach there is to question whether or not, the whole of creation is actually a LIE.

PastorAIO:


The part where it specifies that the lie should not be used as a Witness/evidence against 'your neighbour'.

If you see a sign saying: DO NOT DEFECATE HERE

Will you conclude that the sign says you must never defecate again. Or do you recognise that it specifies that it is only in that position that defecation is wrong.

If you say you can lie but not against your neighbour, who else are you to lie to if not against your neighbour?

PastorAIO:


Out of curiosity, the decalogue also says 'thou shalt not covet your neighbour's servants'. Is it against the law to headhunt skilled workers from other companies? Or perhaps the servant in this case is not a paid servant and, while a tacit approval of slavery, it forbids the stealing away of slaves from their masters (if the masters are israelites too).
But this is a tangent.

back to bearing false witness against the neighbour, What do you understand by the hebrew word ‘êḏ , and what it it's place in the commandment that you are referring to.

Then of course there is the issue of whether the Lie was an 'honest mistake' or whether it was done with the intention to deceive, and further whether the intention to deceive was to cause harm or to avoid harm.

If you want an expansion of the Decalogue then don't look further than what the Lord Jesus said when He gave a proper interpretation of the Moral Law.

"Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" (Matthew 22:40). Love God and love your neighbour.

PastorAIO:

The point I want to arrive at eventually, though I doubt you'll reach there is to question whether or not, the whole of creation is actually a LIE.

The Decalogue was given to the Israelites by the Creator who has the right to set rules for the way they lived and by extension the way mankind lives. It's a user manual for mankind. Read Charles Spurgeon's take on it:

"There is war between you and God's Law. The Ten Commandments are against you. The first comes forward and says, 'Let him be cursed. For he denies Me. He has another god beside Me. His god is his belly and he yields his homage to his lust.' All the Ten Commandments, like ten great cannons, are pointed at you today. For you have broken all of God's statutes and lived in daily neglect of all His commands.

Soul, thou wilt find it a hard thing to go at war with the Law. When the Law came in peace, Sinai was altogether on a smoke and even Moses said, 'I exceeding fear and quake!' What will you do when the Law of God comes in terror; when the trumpet of the archangel shall tear you from your grave; when the eyes of God shall burn their way into your guilty soul; when the great books shall be opened and all your sin and shame shall be punished... Can you stand against an angry Law in that Day?"

God, the Uncreated Creator and Judge of the universe has given us the ultimate foundation, which typifies His Word and character and therefore, it is only He that has the right to set the rules and tell us what to do, either you like it or not.

To save yourself from pain, check out this link:-->www.Need God.com

PastorAIO:
However everything the serpent said about the tree of good and evil was true while what Elohim said about it was false.

Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:



adam and eve did eventually physically die
however they spiritually died straight away after disobeying God
and were banished from the garden and from God's presence




Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

PastorAIO:

This is extra biblical. Nowhere does it talk if spiritual death. Spirit is life.

PastorAIO:
All this long thing and all for only me.

There is an easy way to show all your long words for the nonsense that they are.

if upon all the so called spiritual death that you've manufactured Adam and Eve continued to eat from the tree of life, would they die? Or not?


If they would continue to live, as god said they would in the story, then where does that leave your so called spiritual death?

Eph_6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

we are dead when we sin, adam and eve died the day they sinned:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.




when we sin we may not straight away physically die, but we do straight away spiritually die(seperation from God)

when we repent the Holy Spirit is able to restore our good relationship with God


Eze_18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

^^^ when we sin, do we die that day physically or spiritually

The curious thing about liars is that they are the first to make a claim that they can never lie. So vociferous in the defense of their integrity, yet the facts speak otherwise.

Higher Everyday
MONDAY MARCH 12, 2018

OVERCOME YOUR STIGMA
TEXT: HEBREWS 11:31

"By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace" (Hebrews 11:31).

A stigma refers to attitudes and beliefs that lead people to reject, avoid, or fear those they perceive as socially unacceptable. It is a symbol of disgrace or infamy. Nick Vujicic has no limbs and hands, yet is an evangelist and a motivational speaker. He overcame his limitations and lives such an amazing life. Rahab was a woman of abandoned character. As a harlot, she belonged to a low class of human beings that many would not want to be associated with. Her strong faith in God made her to risk her life in protecting Israeli spies. Her action of faith paid off when the Israeli soldiers invaded Jericho to destroy the city and she was spared along with her entire family. Rahab later became an ancestress of Jesus.

Are you ashamed or humiliated by anything in your life? Nothing should frustrate your goal in life. You can still be fulfilled in life whatever your shortcomings or background. Be born again and give your stigma to Jesus; He turns sorrows into joy.

• Challenge: "Don't let your bad past hinder your future prospects"

• Prayer: "Dear Father, help me to ignore my limitations and forge ahead."

• Quote: "Give your stigma to Jesus"

• Bible Reading in one Year: 2 Kings 5: 1-14

See more here:

Is it possible to even exist in separation from God?