People get misled all the time. If you have correctly calculated that a cable needs a certain size of breaker to protect it, please do not just use the next higher size that is readily available. The MCB will only function as a switch and offers a false sense of safety. If you cannot find the correct breaker, upsize the cables.

If you decide to use the higher rated MCB for the same cable, you need to understand that it is a risk and maybe it will make you more vigilant (constantly looking out for any signs of a fire).

To prevent a fire, you should use an MCB with a lower amp rating than the cable not higher.

Ogas Wazari and S007, please let this rest, even those of us that started yesterday know that cables don't have to get to 'firing' point before breakers come to action. Thank you both for your explanations.

#Firing���

Wazari:
People get misled all the time. If you have correctly calculated that a cable needs a certain size of breaker to protect it, please do not just use the next higher size that is readily available. The MCB will only function as a switch and offers a false sense of safety. If you cannot find the correct breaker, upsize the cables.

If you decide to use the higher rated MCB for the same cable, you need to understand that it is a risk and maybe it will make you more vigilant (constantly looking out for any signs of a fire).

To prevent a fire, you should use an MCB with a lower amp rating than the cable not higher.

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makavele:
And it's a wrap folks . . .

So I took Mr Niyi's advice and gave the busbars some good spacing to prevent stories that touch,

I have a lot of things I would want to comment on this installation but for some reasons I might not be able to.
One of such reasons is the fact that I enjoy reading comments from others. Some very honestly 'wrong' corrections and some I have to learn from though. Over time I have seen some people who use to ask basic questions here become pro advisers. It means this thread has built a lot of people.

There's one thing that I want to mention (maybe someone else has already mentioned because I am yet to read through the whole comment but there's nothing wrong in repeating). It is about the busbars. Please always endeavour to use a 100% STAINLESS STEEL bolt anytime you have to deal with electrical contacts especially in the DC circuits. You might be loosing current with the bolt/nuts you are using at the moment and over time it will get worse. Worse than loosing current is the risk of fire that might emanate from the heat from the iron with the wood beneath it. We have had to correct this error in most of the installations we are contracted to correct. We have even seen situations where those ordinary steel bolts for battery terminals which will heat up sending electrons away in the heat.

When you are using wood to mount electrical circuits care should be taken to ensure that the conductive surfaces doesn't come in contact with the wood especially surfaces that are prone to heat. In your own case here, The iron bolt you are using (wrongly) is directly on the wood.

One simple way to know if the bolt is stainless steel is to use a magnet to test. There shouldn't be any iron in it.

Just the level of my knowledge. I am always open for correction.

makavele:


The only wire I can see with my "novice" eyes coming out the opposite direction is the inverter negative cable . . .
please clarify more and i,ll see if it is fix-worthy
are you talking bout the blue and yellow wires (battery to bus bar cables)
i doubt so. once again clarify, until then, peace out

The wires to the CC breaker and CC are at an odd angle. The wires should come out at least 1 -2 inch and then bent in a hook shape not immediately after existing the MCB

kiekie1:


Namesake free that matter abeg ..Makavele is a practical man not theory .. Most pure sinewave 5kva inverters which isn't upto 4kw power use factory fitted 200a DCB .. Cyberpower is a good example! Bluegate 2kva uses 100a dcb etc .. That power starlight 5kw inverter you see in pics is a major load bearer with high surge capability and it won't make much sense using 125a small DCB for its DC cables as 250a will very much trip on practical wrong polarity mistakes and also carry basic,heavy loads needed as a 5kw or 6kw does without DCB tripping or overheating ! Cheer's

since we are on DC breaker please ensure polarity is correct.( unless the breaker is non polarized) the attached document is very clear for the D.i>Y installer.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W44FlBLvVdz6lTJ0nfHZLzFLVQlIguox/view?usp=sharing

S007:


It is clear you don't understand my message. This is not vain arguments. The reason why these rating of circuit breakers are put on inverters I do know. I have been in this field for close to three decades. Kiekie is not entirely wrong either.
My inverter did not come with one pre-installed. I have an inverter panel of same brand that came with one. These are two different things and you have to select the right panel for your application.
For your inverter, have you wondered why the manufacturer did not put 500A, 1000A or even 50A in there. Like you said, most Nigerians don't care about these things.
Many inverters do not come with an inverter-battery DC breaker as part of the setup. It is an important part of the jigsaw puzzle. If it is a DIY, one has to determine the right one to put there.
Putting the right one there means avoiding nuisance and unnecessary trips. It also means the CB will do it's job when required.
I can tell you many people depends on threads like these for education and to make the right decision. Putting the right message there goes a long way in helping others.

The DC breakers have two different tripping points ( magnetic - for short circuit ) and Thermal for overload - Without complicating things the breaker can have different curves ( B,C,D ) for the same rated current and the correct one should be chosen to avoid nuisance tripping . The rated current marked on breaker is In ( nominal) which it can continuously carry

For those interested can go through the attached document but short summary is in the picture . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6eOIBrQmTfLYXJfaTZhejRSbnc/view?usp=sharing

When it comes to electrical safety I would rather be more cautious than going for a higher value because it just might trip

The best protection in DC circuits is not the 440 AC fusebox normally seen in Nigeria but[b] CLASS T fuse followed by Circuit breaker[/b] which ensures minimal let through energy by it's fast action - https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-5502-225-400/dp/B076GTZ6PY

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-5pcs-A3T250-CLASS-T-Ferraz-Shawmut-French-Roland-fuse-250A300V-brand-new/32839022494.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?spm=a2g0s.9042647.6.2.2e2e4c4dU1TYtt&orderId=502844851612310&productId=32812689338

https://zerohomebills.com/product/enwitec-battery-safety-breaker-slim-250-75v-250a/

NextDayPP:
Ogas Wazari and S007, please let this rest, even those of us that started yesterday know that cables don't have to get to 'firing' point before breakers come to action. Thank you both for your explanations.

#Firing���

Chief NextDayPP, if you know all about cables, breakers and "firings", then you do not need to pay attention to my explanations.

I have seen far too much false information being bandied around in Nigeria causing system failures and accidents. I know there are many people who have a bad opinion of solar because someone they know invested in solar and lost a lot of money.

It is definitely in our interest in this forum to correct misinformation as much as possible and in a civilized manner.

Wazari:


Chief NextDayPP, if you know all about cables, breakers and "firings", then you do not need to pay attention to my explanations.

I have seen far too much false information being bandied around in Nigeria causing system failures and accidents. I know there are many people who have a bad opinion of solar because someone they know invested in solar and lost a lot of money.

It is definitely in our interest in this forum to correct misinformation as much as possible and in a civilized manner.

When it comes to electrical installation safety better be safe than sorry. Just because somebody has not seen a fire yet does not mean it did not happen.

All the standards and regulations are designed for that 1 % probability when something can go wrong and ensure safety.

maybe we do not see many incidences in Nigeria due to low penetration and lower capacities

Normally the risk is minimized, as switches are designed to fail safely. to become a fire hazard, there would need to be ignition while being switched off under load and the switch housing or cable would have to fail. Also Flammable material would also need to be close by.( wood !!)

pranil:



When it comes to electrical installation safety better be safe than sorry. Just because somebody has not seen a fire yet does not mean it did not happen.

All the standards and regulations are designed for that 1 % probability when something can go wrong and ensure safety.

maybe we do not see many incidences in Nigeria due to low penetration and lower capacities

Normally the risk is minimized, as switches are designed to fail safely. to become a fire hazard, there would need to be ignition while being switched off under load and the switch housing or cable would have to fail. Also Flammable material would also need to be close by.( wood !!)

Exactly my point. Although in many cases, the flammable material might only be the cable insulation.

pranil:


The wires to the CC breaker and CC are at an odd angle. The wires should come out at least 1 -2 inch and then bent in a hook shape not immediately after existing the MCB

Strain relief, okay I get that .
Thanks

pranil:


since we are on DC breaker please ensure polarity is correct.( unless the breaker is non polarized) the attached document is very clear for the D.i>Y installer.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W44FlBLvVdz6lTJ0nfHZLzFLVQlIguox/view?usp=sharing

We are all humans and prone to mistakes but I think polarity issues is one mistake I cannot make because I quaudruple check before giving it the breathe of life. Although I have a couple of non polarized mcbs, sitting somewhere, if my memory serves me right

@ Waziri and @Pranil.
Thanks so much for your comments. God bless you.

@kiekie
I have no intention to disparage anybody.
My aim is never to win an argument here. All I desire is just to pass the right information across. Sometimes I think it is a duty. I have friends who have been seriously injured, properties burnt and millions lost before. Part of the root cause is information gaps.

I think we all have a moral obligation to always seek the truth. One holy book says the truth will make us free.

I think I am done with this CB topic.

pranil:


since we are on DC breaker please ensure polarity is correct.( unless the breaker is non polarized) the attached document is very clear for the D.i>Y installer.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W44FlBLvVdz6lTJ0nfHZLzFLVQlIguox/view?usp=sharing

Yes Boss .. We always observe polarity whilst installing ! Thanks for your contribution as usual Sir !

richmon74:


I have a lot of things I would want to comment on this installation but for some reasons I might not be able to.
One of such reasons is the fact that I enjoy reading comments from others. Some very honestly 'wrong' corrections and some I have to learn from though. Over time I have seen some people who use to ask basic questions here become pro advisers. It means this thread has built a lot of people.

There's one thing that I want to mention (maybe someone else has already mentioned because I am yet to read through the whole comment but there's nothing wrong in repeating). It is about the busbars. Please always endeavour to use a 100% STAINLESS STEEL bolt anytime you have to deal with electrical contacts especially in the DC circuits. You might be loosing current with the bolt/nuts you are using at the moment and over time it will get worse. Worse than loosing current is the risk of fire that might emanate from the heat from the iron with the wood beneath it. We have had to correct this error in most of the installations we are contracted to correct. We have even seen situations where those ordinary steel bolts for battery terminals which will heat up sending electrons away in the heat.

When you are using wood to mount electrical circuits care should be taken to ensure that the conductive surfaces doesn't come in contact with the wood especially surfaces that are prone to heat. In your own case here, The iron bolt you are using (wrongly) is directly on the wood.

One simple way to know if the bolt is stainless steel is to use a magnet to test. There shouldn't be any iron in it.

Just the level of my knowledge. I am always open for correction.

Good point Sir ! I sure know of two modes which we have here...;
>>New feature "Likers association of Nairaland" LAN
>>"Discreet observers association of Nairaland" DOAN

pranil:



The DC breakers have two different tripping points ( magnetic - for short circuit ) and Thermal for overload - Without complicating things the breaker can have different curves ( B,C,D ) for the same rated current and the correct one should be chosen to avoid nuisance tripping . The rated current marked on breaker is In ( nominal) which it can continuously carry

For those interested can go through the attached document but short summary is in the picture . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6eOIBrQmTfLYXJfaTZhejRSbnc/view?usp=sharing

When it comes to electrical safety I would rather be more cautious than going for a higher value because it just might trip

The best protection in DC circuits is not the 440 AC fusebox normally seen in Nigeria but[b] CLASS T fuse followed by Circuit breaker[/b] which ensures minimal let through energy by it's fast action - https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-5502-225-400/dp/B076GTZ6PY

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-5pcs-A3T250-CLASS-T-Ferraz-Shawmut-French-Roland-fuse-250A300V-brand-new/32839022494.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?spm=a2g0s.9042647.6.2.2e2e4c4dU1TYtt&orderId=502844851612310&productId=32812689338

https://zerohomebills.com/product/enwitec-battery-safety-breaker-slim-250-75v-250a/

Thanks for the summary.. Quite vivid & lucid !

S007:
@ Waziri and @Pranil.
Thanks so much for your comments. God bless you.

@kiekie
I have no intention to disparage anybody.
My aim is never to win an argument here. All I desire is just to pass the right information across. Sometimes I think it is a duty. I have friends who have been seriously injured, properties burnt and millions lost before. Part of the root cause is information gaps.

I think we all have a moral obligation to always seek the truth. One holy book says the truth will make us free.

I think I am done with this CB topic.

Lol case has ended to me since ... I just type briefly & move back to "observation mode" as an old school forumite ! I knowingly pop out to type outside adverts sometimes ..Let's just keep praying we don't experience fire outbreaks by Gods grace as most inverters or pv installations i have seen don't even have saftety breakers , more also the simple phcn cutouts don't even specify the appropriate mm² looping strand to be used when bought at electrical stores , so what more can we say .. One love ! Gracias

kiekie1:


Lol case has ended to me since ... I just type briefly & move back to "observation mode" as an old school forumite ! I knowingly pop out to type outside adverts sometimes ..Let's just keep praying we don't experience fire outbreaks by Gods grace as most inverters or pv installations i have seen don't even have saftety breakers , more also the simply phcn cutouts don't even specify the appropriate mm² looping strand to be used when bought at electrical stores , so what more can we say .. One love ! Gracias

I love the way the issue (CB) started and ended (especially with ur summary/finishing up there). Seriously, how this country is still standing without any known code or standard baffled me. Over the few years I ve stay alive( just a little above 10yrs), I ve seen quite a number of accidents as a result of electrical mismatch. They burn as if petrol was used on them!

Oshomo12:


I love the way the issue (CB) started and ended (especially with ur summary/finishing up there). Seriously, how this country is still standing without any known code or standard baffled me. Over the few years I ve stay alive( just a little above 10yrs), I ve seen quite a number of accidents as a result of electrical mismatch. They burn as if petrol was used on them!

Lovely point.. I am marvelled! SON lacks integrity in ensuring standards .. We can rarely differentiate original items from fakes this days in almost all goods in the open market ! Average phcn staff takes bribe and goes his way, same with Lagos state building control agency takes bribe and so on"Ambode sacked GM & 3 others some years ago" but same keeps happening #decayed-spoilt-system ! God help us all !!

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wow... A lot have been said about the CB. nevertheless, I have a small observation with a small question...

It has been stated that most of these DC breakers are polarized and the polarity must be strictly adhered to. I've observed that sometimes a 2-pole DC breaker is used to break only the positive cable. What is been done is that the strand of the positive cable will be divided between the two poles of the 2-ploe breaker.

I've seen it on a Sukam/Mopower 5kva/48v Inverter. A 2-pole breaker was used for the Battery disconnect for only the positive cable. what I can't remember was whether the breaker was actually polarized.

so, is a right practice. as a matter of fact, I just installed the breaker in the attached pic where I did something like that. used it for INVERTER-BATTERY disconnect and also for the SCC-BATTERY disconnect on only the +ve cables with the strands divided...

"You're dead the day you stop learning"

pranil:



The DC breakers have two different tripping points ( magnetic - for short circuit ) and Thermal for overload - Without complicating things the breaker can have different curves ( B,C,D ) for the same rated current and the correct one should be chosen to avoid nuisance tripping . The rated current marked on breaker is In ( nominal) which it can continuously carry

For those interested can go through the attached document but short summary is in the picture . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6eOIBrQmTfLYXJfaTZhejRSbnc/view?usp=sharing

When it comes to electrical safety I would rather be more cautious than going for a higher value because it just might trip

The best protection in DC circuits is not the 440 AC fusebox normally seen in Nigeria but[b] CLASS T fuse followed by Circuit breaker[/b] which ensures minimal let through energy by it's fast action - https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-5502-225-400/dp/B076GTZ6PY

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-5pcs-A3T250-CLASS-T-Ferraz-Shawmut-French-Roland-fuse-250A300V-brand-new/32839022494.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?spm=a2g0s.9042647.6.2.2e2e4c4dU1TYtt&orderId=502844851612310&productId=32812689338

https://zerohomebills.com/product/enwitec-battery-safety-breaker-slim-250-75v-250a/

In lay man's parlance,
1) highest voltage expected must be less than Vn on breaker.
2) (a) current rating of conductor must be higher than rating of breaker to protect wire(b) rating of breaker must be at least 1.25 of expected current to avoid nuisance tripping
3) short circuit rating of breaker must be greater than possible short circuit in the connection else the breaker will fail to trip in some short circuit situation.

If you see an unsafe act, stop it. If you can't stop it, report it.

@makavele: your setup is neat and lovely.
consider using a contactor for automatic changeover instead of 2 separate switches which can both be turned on accidentally

mank1234:
@makavele: your setup is neat and lovely.
consider using a contactor for automatic changeover instead of 2 separate switches which can both be turned on accidentally

thanks but i dont understand what u mean by 2 seperate switches which can both be turned on accidentally.
there is only 1 dedicated switch for generator or mains input which is drawn from the main db
and one for output; thus they can both be and should be left on

then the fancy white privacy box for changeover between inverter, mains/generator and total darkness(neutral)

so please elucidate

mank1234:

In lay man's parlance,
1) highest voltage expected must be less than Vn on breaker.
2) (a) current rating of conductor must be higher than rating of breaker to protect wire(b) rating of breaker must be at least 1.25 of expected current to avoid nuisance tripping
3) short circuit rating of breaker must be greater than possible short circuit in the connection else the breaker will fail to trip in some short circuit situation.

If you see an unsafe act, stop it. If you can't stop it, report it.

without resorting to speaking too much English,
well said !!!

makavele:


thanks but i dont understand what u mean by 2 seperate switches which can both be turned on accidentally.
there is only 1 dedicated switch for generator or mains input which is drawn from the main db
and one for output; thus they can both be and should be left on

then the fancy white privacy box for changeover between inverter, mains/generator and total darkness(neutral)

so please elucidate

I thought both were for input from different power source.
Congrats once again.

mank1234:



I thought both were for input from different power source.
Congrats one again.

Oh okay,
i am trying to design labels and warning stickers
which would be placed appropriately for identification and clarification of what does what etc

thanks once again

@pranil

On the axpert inverters particularly the ipowerplus model. I finally figured out a way to log the inverter output/inputs without buying the $60 AICC software. It basically hs to do with probing the /dev/hidraw0 interface directly and formatting the output to json and uploading it to emoncms. The problem I am now having is the current shunt measurement seem to limited to power load above 100w. anything below 100w is recorded as 0 watt output and 0 system load. I see this even on the inverter display.. I need to be pulling about 120w before the inverter registers the output. This is a problem for me because my night load is often times below 80w (especially when the house goes to bed) and during that period inverter records 0 output.. defeating the whole essence of logging in the first place.

Do you experience this same issue with AICC? I am using the 3kva 24v model

mcTrinity:
wow... A lot have been said about the CB. nevertheless, I have a small observation with a small question...

It has been stated that most of these DC breakers are polarized and the polarity must be strictly adhered to. I've observed that sometimes a 2-pole DC breaker is used to break only the positive cable. What is been done is that the strand of the positive cable will be divided between the two poles of the 2-ploe breaker.

I've seen it on a Sukam/Mopower 5kva/48v Inverter. A 2-pole breaker was used for the Battery disconnect for only the positive cable. what I can't remember was whether the breaker was actually polarized.

so, is a right practice. as a matter of fact, I just installed the breaker in the attached pic where I did something like that. used it for INVERTER-BATTERY disconnect and also for the SCC-BATTERY disconnect on only the +ve cables with the strands divided...

"You're dead the day you stop learning"

The other pole should break negative and not positive of the array if you want to save money/space . basically Higher voltage + should be on positive and ve should be on negative


for Battery to inverter + of the battery to + of the breaker
for PV array + ve of solar to +ve of the breaker

Decided its time to let go of this my trusted inverter. It was sent to be bench because I decided to go the transformerless inverter route and got the ipower plus. I decided to keep the latter mostly because of its communication capabilities. This inverter has been in the box for a while but I have to kill sentiment and let it go.




You can read up on my review of the inverter here


http://bobby.com.ng/2017/06/28/felicity-inverter-a-short-review/

Price is 95k

Specs
3.5kva
24v
Max charge amp 35A
Selectable charge profile (for volts and amps)
Ability to disable charging.

Oga BigRovar

Please how do you disable charging on this unit? I know one can set the charge amps to very low - as low as 5-10amps but I never knew you could disable it entirely? Could it be setting number '0' on the voltage profile selection?

bigrovar:
Decided its time to let go of this my trusted inverter. It was sent to be bench because I decided to go the transformerless inverter route and got the ipower plus. I decided to keep the latter mostly because of its communication capabilities. This inverter has been in the box for a while but I have to kill sentiment and let it go.




You can read up on my review of the inverter here


http://bobby.com.ng/2017/06/28/felicity-inverter-a-short-review/

Price is 95k

Specs
3.5kva
24v
Max charge amp 35A
Selectable charge profile (for volts and amps)
Ability to disable charging.

+234 813 187 9510

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Oga BigRovar

Please how do you disable charging on this unit? I know one can set the charge amps to very low - as low as 5-10amps but I never knew you could disable it entirely? Could it be setting number '0' on the voltage profile selection?

2 ways of disabling charging on the unit. Via the Battery type selector choose "not used" you can also do it via the charging current settings. Choose 0%. Those two options disables charging from the unit completely. (used the Victron battery monitor to verify that indeed charging was disabled when those options are selected)

If you are on a pre paid meter and you have sufficient solar pv. It is better to disable inverter charging to better utilise your solar and reduce electricity bills.