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Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Ubenedictus(m): 12:50am On Sep 25, 2012 |
ijawkid:i think u are d person wu have allowed ur bias to dull u, and u can google it up. Yaweh, Jahveh, means he we causes to be, he was, he is, or he will be, it come from the same verb as i am, the verb 'to be'. Go and make ur research. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 1:08am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: i think u are d person wu have allowed ur bias to dull u, and u can google it up. Yaweh, Jahveh, means he we causes to be, he was, he is, or he will be, it come from the same verb as i am, the verb 'to be'. Go and make ur research. ""HE WHO CAUSES TO BE"" sounds more of an explicit definition of that name ..""Yahweh"" But like the scriptures I put up there,Yahweh and YehshÙa are 2 different names... .The father Ànd the Son bear different nÀmes....... They are 2 ÐiffÉrent distinct persons... You guys wanna make the name ""Yahweh"" sound like the surname of your so called triune Godhead.........that's an epiÇ lie The scriptures do not support your stance..... |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by aletheia(m): 2:12am On Sep 25, 2012 |
frosbel:1. Your post is disjointed. What equations? 2. Is this the "comprehensive" rebuttal? 3. Are the names given in that order in the Bible or not? 4. Are those not the meanings of those names or not? 5. What I have written concerning the genealogy of Noah is verifiable from the bible. . .but you don't really read the bible. While you are it, go and consider the meanings of the names of the sons of Jacob, and contemplate the order in which they are presented in the book of Revelation. . .and why Dan is omitted. You have a penchant for discombobulated ramblings without having taken time to digest what you read. Not surprising seeing as most of what you post are second-hand articles by others. It is long past time for you to do proper bible study instead of pasting articles from such as Jews for Judaism etc or rehashing well worn Islamic arguments. And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.[Exo 24:10-11] The language here is clear. It is not allegorical. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 5:26am On Sep 25, 2012 |
aletheia: You probably shouldn't waste energy on Frosbel, sir. Not unless you just want to have a laugh at his expense. I really love your previous post. I want to digest it and see what discussions may arise from it. Thank you for it. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 6:20am On Sep 25, 2012 |
lol, Read my latest article on 47 Reasons Why Our Heavenly Father Has No Equals Or “co-equals” https://www.nairaland.com/1057340/47-reasons-why-heavenly-father Speak later y'all. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 6:42am On Sep 25, 2012 |
@aletheia Lovely read that post was. Those names.........wow! I'm not just gladdened, I'm humbled by the fact that I am seeing these wonders written by another and so long ago too. God is greatly merciful to me. Before I started to really use nairaland, it felt like I was the only one who knew what I knew. And that is a very dangerous position. It easily results in either burying the revelation committed to one or growing very pompous because of it. Since I started to really discuss on nairaland, God has been bringing able brethren that I can share with without losing the quality of the revelations. And I find the fact that you are so articulate in delivery very very humbling, because it says that these things have been perfected in you. I am greatly blessed to be your brother, sir. Thank you so much for being available to the Lord. It's looking like I'll go to that old thread to read up the discussions. I wish threads like that were current. It'd be great if we could share things of that depth more often. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Ubenedictus(m): 7:24am On Sep 25, 2012 |
ijawkid:cherry picking, beautifully done, actually the best interpretation of that name is "he who is". Beautiful cherry picking. But like the scriptures I put up there,Yahweh and YehshÙa are 2 different names...hahaha, enjoy argueing with yourself. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 8:35am On Sep 25, 2012 |
ijawkid: Lol you make me laugh, should i start telling you that there are different names of God and christ. Of course yahweh and yehshua cant mean the same thing, The Son only started bearing Jesus(yehshua) when he came in flesh. Ok God said he was the king of king, lord of lords, first and last in the old testament right? Did jesus not claim those names too? Your question should have been which name are u talking about. Have you forgotten jesus is called wonderful counsellor, mighty God, prince of peace? Have you forgotten that jesus is called the word of God? Anyway rev 14:1 says they had the name of the father and of the lamb on their forehead and rev 22:4 says the fathers name only. Does that not give you a clue. Dont forget there is also a name that jesus alone knew. So the father and son have more than one names and there are some exclusive to the son like "wonderful counsellor, son of God" e.t.c' so u cant just conclude that the name yahweh belongs to the father only just because you saw some different names. They also have the same names, the father is i am, the son also, father is 1st nd last, son also.etc I will prove to u later why yahweh cant be exclusive to the father |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 8:43am On Sep 25, 2012 |
aletheia: Digest the gibberish you keep posting and trying to pass of as fact Not surprising seeing as most of what you post are second-hand articles by others. It is long past time for you to do proper bible study instead of pasting articles from such as Jews for Judaism etc or rehashing well worn Islamic arguments. The Muslims trounce you here, they got the ONE GOD theology right while you cannot comprehend simple logic and keep confusing yourself and others. You and you cohorts keep millions of Jews and Muslims out of the kingdom of God by propagating a most twisted, concocted and convoluted mystery called the Trinity. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to." - Matthew 23:13 |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 8:49am On Sep 25, 2012 |
God is God because of certain attributes that He has. If Jesus Christ were God, he would have to have the attributes of God. Most theologians agree that these attributes are: unoriginated, self-existent, immortal, unchanging, omniscient, all wise, all good, all-powerful and omnipresent. But Jesus denied every one of these. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 8:56am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Whats the big deal in a one God theology, even pagans believe in one god too, some two, some three, some millions, so whats the big deal. For ur information, trinitarians beliv in one God, i dont expect how you will understand when you try to use ur intellect to understand the nature of God |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 9:00am On Sep 25, 2012 |
[quote author=haibe]Whats the big deal in a one God theology, even pagans believe in one god too, some two, some three, some millions, so whats the big deal. Pagans believe in ONE GOD , lol. For ur information, trinitarians beliv in one God, i dont expect how you will understand when you try to use ur intellect to understand the nature of God[/quote God is a God of reason , he is not ALLAH who keeps his children in ignorance. If you and your friends cannot understand him , it is because you do not care to. Trinity my dear is a Pagan belief. Do some research, Google is free. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Enigma(m): 9:10am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: ^^^^ says the man who demands that God be small enough to fit into his intellect. Do you even know what blasphemy is, Frosbel? You really spout a lot of ignorance and confusion. . . . . I am making this post simply because of the words that I have bolded in blue and also in the hope that this post will cause Frosbel to pause ---- maybe even stop posting or responding to posts on the Trinity for a day or two ---- and go back to think carefully a little bit. Here we have Frosbel arguing that Jesus only came into existence when he was conceived and born and that Jesus is not God. But please Frosbel read your own words as recently as February this year. frosbel: PS I added the large font and blue (and some black) bolding. Also, because the quote is long, I will keep the example in this post to one and use a next post for another example. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 9:20am On Sep 25, 2012 |
I have never encountered a contradictor/double way person as frosbel |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Enigma(m): 9:22am On Sep 25, 2012 |
frosbel: |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 9:22am On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: Has the Father ever being called (SON)?? There is no way the bible we hold proves Yahweh is a name that 3 persons bear.... Your pagan belief is what can explain that to you,not the bible..... Yahweh is the name of the Father and the Father alone.... Show me lucid scriptures that Jesus's name is Yahweh... Mr haibe no scripture supports your stance... The trinity is a fraud...... Have u really checked up the verses I quoted from reveltions?? Those scriptures even clearly states Jesus has A GOD... Its just a reminder....... And let me let u in on this::: The day u guys know the difference between titles and personal names I'll be so happy... Yahweh is called king of kings,Jesus is also called king of kings,so also was nebeuchadnezzar called king of kings... KING of KINGS is a title mr haibe... Obama can rightly be called king of kings because he is the ruler of the world....amongst earthly rulers obama is the head...... Nebuchadnezzar was the ruler of a world power(babylon),and so the title king of kings was a fitting title..... Yahweh is a king over Jesus....u doubt that?? Please put on your thinking caps and read 1 corinthians 15:24-28..... Jesus will hand over the kingdom that was given to him(by the one greater than him,Yahweh) and then Jesus subjects himself to the God of eternity forever..... Can u beat that verse?? And also 1 corinthians 11:3 tells u Yahweh is Lord over Jesus.... The words King and Lord are titles ......even God too is a title..... The day u guys can read scriptures with an unbiased trinity mind the day u will understand real truths.......... Jesus is called a morning star....all the angels in heaven are also called morning stars......Satan was a morning star......... Is MORNING star somebody's name?? And may I tell u 1 thing.... The title morning star can never be attached to Yahweh.... You know why?? |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 9:24am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Enigma: Quite right, sir. I am immensely conflicted by this guy. I do not want to ignore him but I really cannot see how being a Christian he could say things like this. Making sense of it is incredibly difficult for me. I pray the Lord has mercy upon him and delivers him from this increasing foolishness. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Enigma(m): 9:31am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: Amen to the prayer. I will direct my judgment of Frosbel directly as an act of good faith and not belittling or insulting. @ Frosbel I think you are impulsive (and too often in a negative way), easily misled (because you are not deeply reflective), and you do not read carefully or assess carefully material that you come across. Having said all of these, I am convinced that you are well intentioned --- but good intentions need to be matched by good actions and approaches. For instance, why not abandon all these websites you go to for a short period, read and study the various Bible passages you have been quoting on your own and come up for yourself with your own understanding ----- before trying to compare with various other views? |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 9:33am On Sep 25, 2012 |
@ ijawkid "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was a god" (John 1:1 NWT) How many true god do we have here? |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 9:45am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Enigma: I am a very keen and curious student on religion, hence my knowledge increases on a daily basis as I take in more information, analyse this information and make informed decisions. This is my training as an IT professional. I receive data , collate it , analyse it and derive certain facts which lead to a specific Truth . Reason has taught me to accept such a Truth. I do not rely on the whims , notions , excitements and erraticity of fallible men . Any article I post is usually subject to intense scrutiny using ONLY Sola Scriptura Why this long explanation you may ask. Because the more knowledge we have , the better positioned we are to make more factual assessments which lead to certain solid truths. Just because I made a decision based on the stale data I had in February does not mean that on receipt of new data , my perception or understanding will not change. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 9:48am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: @aletheia You should become a cheer leader, others do the thinking , you do the clapping , lol. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Ubenedictus(m): 9:58am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Im surprised as well, there are posts where frosbel say Jesus is God and others he says Jesus isnt God. Are there two frosbel here? 1 hates d catholic church so much that he would disagree with scripture that Jesus is God, the other believes Jesus is God. How does this guy keep both ideas? Well i do hope and pray that he is able to open his heart to the holy spirit. GOD isnt the author of confusion, christ cant be God and isnt God at the same time. Peace |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 10:08am On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: @ ijawkid Let us finish on the title issue... Let me prove to u that titles are not names.... I asked some questions... Have u answered them?? When u do we'll talk about john 1:1... Besides john 1:1 has been discussed a lot here... Mayb u missed out on it.... Start answering my question..... Yahweh is called ""king of kings"" Jesus is called ""king of kings"" So also nebuchadnezzar was called ""king of kings"" (daniel 2:37)... New International Version (©1984) You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; ...... New American Standard Bible (©1995) "You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom theGod of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory... Please tell me if nebuchadnezzar is also Yahweh since he bore the title king of kings??..... I'm also coming up with titles... Let us finish with titles... I wanna show u that Yahweh is all and all and Jesus still remains his son and servant... |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 10:13am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: Im surprised as well, there are posts where frosbel say Jesus is God and others he says Jesus isnt God. Are there two frosbel here? 1 hates d catholic church so much that he would disagree with scripture that Jesus is God, the other believes Jesus is God. How does this guy keep both ideas? Well i do hope and pray that he is able to open his heart to the holy spirit. GOD isnt the author of confusion, christ cant be God and isnt God at the same time. Frosbel grew in knowledge to understand that the trinity has always being a hoax and that Jesus isn't Yahweh...... Its crystal clear to him... His mind is not as obstinate as the mind of u guys who choose to hold on to a pagan trinity.... |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Ubenedictus(m): 10:18am On Sep 25, 2012 |
frosbel:this is the stuff, a programmer wants to draw a flow chart for everything, everything for him works like a computer, i have nothing against programers, im studying to be one. But the thing i like about a computer is that it must accept and analyse data, i have been reading your posts, u dont accept and analyse data, u work with a preconcieved notion that the other person is wrong, it seem like a computer programed to accept names and decides to alway reject ibo names. You have decided that anything that points toward God as one in 3 distinct person is wrong. You cant analyse because u already have a precondition, it is like the 'if' character in a flow chart, if the data points to the trinity delete, if not analyse. The fact that u changed ur earlier understanding show that u arent infalliable either, at least u and i can agree that scripture is infalliable. Drop ur preconcieved ideas, remove the if in your flow chart and ask the holyspirit to guide u as you open scripture, see as it says the father is God d father, a father begets, see the son of God wu is also called God, he is the sole begotten and again see that God is one. Analyse and come to a conclusion. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 10:21am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: You have decided that anything that points toward God as one in 3 distinct person is wrong. You cant analyse because u already have a precondition, it is like the 'if' character in a flow chart, if the data points to the trinity delete, if not analyse I am not a Programmer , must every IT person be one But your are right when you say : "it is like the 'if' character in a flow chart, if the data points to the trinity delete" It's more like ; If GOD = Trinity Then If GOD = 3 Or Jesus = GOD Then Return FALSE Else Return TRUE End If ElseIf GOD = Unitary Then If Jesus = Son of God Then Return True Else Return False End If Else Send to the Rubbish Bin ( ) End If End Function |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Ubenedictus(m): 10:25am On Sep 25, 2012 |
ijawkid:i remember asking u somewhere, how come "the fullness of the deity" dwells in christ wu u call a creature? Or are u going to tell me that angels posses "the fullness of the deity" too and Jesus is ur arch angel? |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Ubenedictus(m): 10:31am On Sep 25, 2012 |
frosbel:not necessaryly, most IT people i know are also programmers, it kind of completes the stuff. But your are right when you say :u dont need to tell me im right, when u have a preconcieved notion even in a hypothetical arguement that something can never be true, u will find every way to run away from it, even if the truth is staring u in the face it would be hard to recognise it. I wish u all the best |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 10:32am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: i remember asking u somewhere, how come "the fullness of the deity" dwells in christ wu u call a creature? Or are u going to tell me that angels posses "the fullness of the deity" too and Jesus is ur arch angel? If the fullness of the Deity dwells in Christ , how then can he be God seeing that the fullness of God had to dwell in him or how do you reconcile it to the following statement Ephesian 3:19 "...... and to know this love that surpasses knowledge -- that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God." Based on the underlined can we also claim to be God just because we are filled with the fullness of God through his Spirit ? 1 Like |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 10:35am On Sep 25, 2012 |
@ijawkid leave nebucadnezzer out of this, was he also called lord of lords, first and last, mighty God, I AM...? |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 10:36am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Guys can you help me here. I read the following scripture and need to to understand how you see it and point out the trinity. Exodus 33:18 - 34:5-7 New International Version (NIV) 18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.” 19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” 21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.” Then the Lord came down in the cloud and stood there with him and proclaimed his name, the Lord. 6 And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.” Can you kindly help us wrench the concept of the Trinity out of this scripture master piece. Secondly : 1. how many Faces do we have here 2. how many Backs do we have here 3. how many Hands do we have here Thanks in advance. |
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 10:57am On Sep 25, 2012 |
Ijawkid whats wrong with 1 corinrh 15:24-28? How does submission to authority affect nature? |
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