Goshen360:

You mean God was referring to his own word by Himself as "US" when God said......"let US make man in our own image". Will that mean God was talking to Angel......and man was created in the image of angel? If this is what you are saying......then I berrer start to study my bible again, it's like I have been on Holy Ghost vacation

The Jews, of all people, have been fiercely monotheistic. The Hebrew word, "elohim" translated "God" and the plurals "us" and "our" never suggested trinitarian ideas to them. Nor is there any New Testament allusion to indicate that in their interpretation of this passage they were mistaken.

example :

Deut 6:4-5 - The Shema -"Hear O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.

That means - The LORD (YHWH) is ONE (Echad). Our God (elohim) is ONE (Echad).


Brother, you are following others , do your research.

Calling God 3 is PAGAN.

k2039: Some of the problem really has to do with translation.

The name commonly used for God in the Old Testament is the Hebrew word Elohim. It is also found in the singular form El and Elah. Whenever we find the English word "God" used in the Old Testament, it is a translation of this Hebrew word Elohim or one of its forms

The noun Elohim is plural but it is always used with a singular verb when it speaks of the true God. This indicates a unity and diversity within the nature of God. This unity and diversity is revealed in Scripture as the doctrine of the Trinity.
Elohim means Gods or the Council of the Gods(Elohim refers to the combination of the three persons)

hahaha I go die ooo

k2039: I still maintain my stand
FATHER≠SON≠HOLY SPIRIT
GOD=FATHER+SON+SPIRIT
GOD(refers to the combination of the three("let US make man in our own image")



For the record,when I pray,I pray to the Father through the name of Jesus
I still maintain that the confusion is actually interchanging GOD and FATHER together

[size=15pt]so you pray to GOD through GOD ?[/size]

Deep Sight:

My dear brother.

Please do not be sucked into this confusion.

GOD = GOD.

Jesus = Jesus.

Holy Spirit = The Living Power of God.

^^^
beautifully stated.

frosbel:

The Jews, of all people, have been fiercely monotheistic. The Hebrew word, "elohim" translated "God" and the plurals "us" and "our" never suggested trinitarian ideas to them. Nor is there any New Testament allusion to indicate that in their interpretation of this passage they were mistaken.

example :

Deut 6:4-5 - The Shema -"Hear O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.

That means - The LORD (YHWH) is ONE (Echad). Our God (elohim) is ONE (Echad).


Brother, you are following others , do your research.

Calling God 3 is PAGAN.

Brother, that is not my question sir. You didn't answer the question. My question is....when you said the "Word that was God" isn't referring to Christ but the creative word of God with which God, the father created the world. Then my question is, you mean God, the Father was talking to his own "creative word" as in talking to himself when He said....let US? or he was talking to angel and that will mean man was created in the image of angels with image of God? This is my question.

frosbel:

The Hebrew word we are considering is "Elohim". In the OT it is translated more than 2300 times as "God" (singular) and only about 240 times as "gods" (plural). Same Hebrew spelling -- different meaning!

Elohim actually does refer to the ONE God of Moses. We must not allow allow these few cases to divert our attention from the the vast majority of other uses of Elohim where it is clearly singular in meaning. In those few cases, translators allow the context to control the translation -- NOT the plural verbs and pronouns. They are recognised as unusual cases of "Plural Intensive", and therefore translated as singular.)

The common mistake made, especially by Trinitarian theologians, is to fail to distinguish between these TWO different uses of "Elohim" just described above. And THAT leads to all sorts of illogical conclusions! (Such as the Trinity, or Oneness, or Arianism)

Although there is no direct equivalent for "plural intensive" in English, we could use "sheep" singular and "sheep" plural, to illustrate the important point that words in English can have identical spelling, but be either singular or plural in meaning. We have no way of knowing which is intended until we read the verb and/or pronoun which accompanies the word. Then we can tell at a glance. i.e.

If we say "the sheep IS in the field", the SINGULAR verb tells us that there is only ONE!

But if we say "the sheep ARE in the field", the PLURAL verb tells us that there is MORE than one.

For simplified practical layman's purposes, that is how it is with the great majority of appearances of ELOHIM in the Hebrew Old Testament.

Maxwell Moses

gobbledygook
This is your problem,you keep copying and pasting without searching the truth for yourself.
I rest my case,I see every point I raise would be countered by some twaddled articleS
I REST MY CASE

frosbel:

[size=15pt]so you pray to GOD through GOD ?[/size]

The problem is that most people are using the word God to refer to the Father which is wrong.That was what I said

Goshen360:

Brother, that is not my question sir. You didn't answer the question. My question is....when you said the "Word that was God" isn't referring to Christ but the creative word of God with which God, the father created the world. Then my question is, you mean God, the Father was talking to his own "creative word" as in talking to himself when He said....let US? or he was talking to angel and that will mean man was created in the image of angels with image of God? This is my question.

That is your interjection, his WORD was his WORD not a being, except you want to make it ONE.

Goshen360: @ truthislight

This is one issue with you. First, you only call yourself "truthislight" but lack how to communicate with other people called believers like yourself. This has been seen many times with you in this session. I pray you look into this aspect of your life.

Second. I gave up on you and Ijawkid in giving you more scriptures where the Holy Spirit is called God since I realized you are hard bent and believe the Holy Spirit is ONLY a force, influencer or power from God to a believer and not a distinct being. The scripture I first gave you and Ijawkid where the Holy Spirit is called God:

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. Acts 5:3-4 Kjv

What did you do with the scripture after I gave it to you? You and Ijawkid turned it down and came up with stories saying it's not valid (on your own authority) and it doesn't mean what it say. Now, how can lie unto the Holy Ghost be lie unto God IF the Holy Ghost is not God OR how can lie unto God be same as lie unto Holy Ghost IF Holy Ghost is not God?

Third. I gave up talking to you and Ijawkid on this subject with the thought that, how am I sure if I give you another scripture saying the Holy Spirit is God....How am I sure you will still not cook up another story against it? And yet, you are looking for scriptures that explicitly call the Holy Spirit, God. You simple don't believe in Trinity and the evidence is very clear. So no amount of scriptures shown to you, Ijawkid, frosbel and others alike will do anything. You will still come up around reasoning God as 1+1+1 rather than 1x1x1.

if i should call you a LIAR now, you will start crying but that is who you are.

Where in those scriptures did it say the "holy spirit is a God"?

Stop twisting the word of God to fit it into your pegan doctrine!

frosbel:

That is your interjection, his WORD was his WORD not a being, except you want to make it ONE.

My brother, we are testing the scripture to PROVE ALL THINGS....okay. You said,

frosbel:

If as the WORD , then we agree , the WORD was with the Father as his creative WORD which was used to bring the world into existence and create MAN.

But if you are trying to say this WORD was a being , my question is as what ?

As a spirit, or angel, or what ?

And my question was....you mean God was referring to his "own" word when He said let us create man in our own image? Can God be referring to His own creative word using "us"? if it wasn't a being He was talking with? Prove that God was merely talking to Himself by referring to His own creative word as US if he wasn't talking to a being....or was God talking to angel? Then it will mean man was created in the image of angels and of God?

1 Corinthians 2:14


Amplified Bible (AMP)

14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.


THAT'S MY TAKE ON TRINITY

Goshen360:

My brother, we are testing the scripture to PROVE ALL THINGS....okay. You said,



And my question was....you mean God was referring to his "own" word when He said let us create man in our own image? Can God be referring to His own creative word using "us"? if it wasn't a being He was talking with? Prove that God was merely talking to Himself by referring to His own creative word as US if he wasn't talking to a being....or was God talking to angel? Then it will mean man was created in the image of angels and of God?

Sorry I don't have time to write up an essay , but cced one off a Jweish site which concurs with my opinion.

Enjoy and please take the time to read it.

Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are prooftexts of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, "And God created man in His image" (Genesis 1:27). In this verse the Hebrew verb "created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the NEXT verse by, "And they created man in their image." Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the divine appellation 'Elohim, to indicate the all-inclusiveness of God's attributes of authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to speak of himself as if he were a plurality. Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give your counsel what we shall do" (2 Samuel 16:20). The context shows that he was seeking advice for himself' yet he refers to himself as "we" (see also Ezra 4:16-19).

There is another possible reason for the use of the plural on the part of God, and that is to manifest His humility. God addresses Himself to the angels and says to them, "Let us make man in our image." It is not that He invites their help, but as a matter of modesty and courtesy, God associates them with the creation of man. This teaches us that a great man should act humbly and consult with those lower than him. It is not unusual for God to refer to His heavenly court (angels) as "us," as we see in Isaiah 6:8, "And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?'" Although God often acts without assistance, He makes His intentions known to His servants. Thus, we find "Shall I conceal from Abraham that which I am doing" (Genesis 18:17); "He made known His ways to Moses, His doings to the children of Israel" (Psalms 103:7); "For the Lord God will do nothing without revealing His counsel to His servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7).

A misconception similar to that concerning Genesis 1:27 is held by trinitarian Christians with reference to the verse, "Come, let us go down, and there confound their language" (Genesis 11:7). Here, too, the confounding of the language is related in verse 9 to God alone, ". . . because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth." In this verse the Hebrew verb "did" appears in the singular form. Also, the descent is credited in verse 5 to the Lord alone, "And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower." In this verse the Hebrew verb "came down" appears in the singular form. If a doctrine of plurality of persons is to be based on the grammatical form of words, the frequent interchanging of the singular and the plural should vitiate such an attempt as being without foundation or merit. We may safely conclude that the Bible refutes most emphatically every opinion, which deviates from the concept of an indivisible unity of God.

Chapter 45 of Isaiah, using the Tetragrammaton, unequivocally asserts that the Lord alone is the creator and ruler of all things in the universe. The six uses of 'Elohim in this chapter (verses 3, 5, 14, 15, 18, 21) show that the term 'Elohim is synonymous with the Tetragrammaton, and that both epithets refer to the absolute one-and-only God. The singularity of God, [/b]expressed in the first-person singular in verse 12, clearly shows who is meant by the phrase, "Let us create man in our image": "I, even I, have made the earth, and created man upon it; [b]I, even My hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."

As for the Messiah, of him God says, "And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even My servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and My servant David prince among them; I the Lord have spoken" (Ezekiel 34:23-24). The Lord alone will be worshipped as God, while the Messiah, as the servant of God, lives with the people. God and the Messiah are not and cannot be equals, for it is God alone who gives the Messiah power to rule in the capacity of His appointed servant.

http://jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=164:what-is-the-meaning-of-god-said-qlet-us-make-man-in-our-image-&catid=49:trinity&Itemid=501

k2039:
The problem is that most people are using the word God to refer to the Father which is wrong.That was what I said

U can as well ask the persons who removed the tetragrammaton(YHWH) that appeared over 7000 times in the hebrew scriptures and replaced it with GOD and LORD....

That in itself is what is causing this trinity wahala that both Jews b4 christ coming and christians after christ's ressurection never experienced....

If the name of the only true GOD is erased and replaced with the title GOD ,why won't trinitarians assume anybody to be GOD...(Infact 3 GODS to be specific)......

If every1 of us had bibles that had GODS name all over it,why would 1 wake up and think of the trinity.........

I re-echo Jesus's words. ""Hear this O isreal and O nairalanders and all christians ,Yahweh our GOD is 1 GOD..""

Chikena......

The holy spirit is nobodies GOD...nobody ever worshipped the holy spirit......

It is Gods power that is poured on servants of GOD in order for them to worship Yahweh in the right way.......

This same spirit was poured out when Jesus was baptized...this same spirit was what influenced the prophets and all bible writers to pen down GODs thougths...this same spirit is what enabled the apostles and early christians preach boldly and to endure trials....this spirit empowered Jesus to carry out his work his Father sent him to do...that spirit of holiness or power is not a person and Also not GOD


3 persons making 3 GODs or 1 GOD is not biblical...

It is 1 person and that is Yahweh that is the only 1 GOD whom worship shuld be directed to....

Trinity is false.....

[size=14pt]שמע ישראל ה 'הוא האלוהים שלנו הוא אחד

Shema Yisrael Adonai Elohaynu Adonai Echad

"Hear Israel,Adonai is our God, Adonai is One"[/size]

Goshen360:

My brother, we are testing the scripture to PROVE ALL THINGS....okay. You said,



And my question was....you mean God was referring to his "own" word when He said let us create man in our own image? Can God be referring to His own creative word using "us"? if it wasn't a being He was talking with? Prove that God was merely talking to Himself by referring to His own creative word as US if he wasn't talking to a being....or was God talking to angel? Then it will mean man was created in the image of angels and of God?

Bro Goshen,

To me, I think God was referring to the Angels when He said 'let US create man in our image'. Read Job 38:4-7. So, basically they were with Him when he laid the foundation of the world & created man. I think John 1:1 'begining' was the begining of all things (the universe) & it's completely different from the creation of man...

..

@Frosbel:

by frosbel(m): 4:26pm
..

(Quote) (Report) (Like)

ol' chap you are losing it. You can even say anything on a thread you created. I know how you feel; defeated it is.

seriallink:
Bro Goshen,

To me, I think God was referring to the Angels when He said 'let US create man in our image'. Read Job 38:4-7. So, basically they were with Him when he laid the foundation of the world & created man. I think John 1:1 'begining' was the begining of all things (the universe) & it's completely different from the creation of man...

So you mean man was created in the image of angels and of God?

Goshen360:

So you mean man was created in the image of angels and of God?

Man was created in the Image of God ofcourse, so are the angels...

In Hebrew Language,there are two types of plurals.Plural of numbers and plural of respect.
"And God said,let US make man in our own image . . . . ."
The 'US' is a plural of respect.The english language don't have that,and thats why it seems the 'US' connotes many.
The Yoruba Language uses 'EYÍN' to address an elderly person and also when talking to more than one person.

k2039: Frosbel,I think the problem is just due to the fact that you dont agree with the Roman Catholic Church,as a result its affecting your reasoning(you trying to fault all roman catholic doctrine(you just want to fault the trinity doctrine)).
As much as I dont agree with all of the RCC doctrine,some of their doctrine is right and trinity is not an exception.

i think so too, frosbel hatred for the catholic church is the underlining topic in his argument. Im sure his best source will b d 7th day adventist and d JW. He really dislikes catholic teachings so he decides to fault anything that is related to it. I have never seen a thread by frosbel where he argues the reformed doctrine "once saved alway saved"

frosbel: Trinitarians let us do some maths.

If

A = 1
B = 1
C = 1

Find T

A + B + C = T


1 + 1 + 1 = 3

T = 3


But hold on .



A is not B is not C and B is not A and is not C and C is not A and is not B so :




A , B and C are independent of each other.



Now according to Trinitarian maths :



A + B + C = T

1 + 1 + 1 = 1


Can you please help me here or am I missing something.

Using natural wisdom to understand spiritual things, so funny of you, well the trinity might seem foolish to you but its the foolish things of this world that God uses to confound the wise.

My bro, i asked a question in another thread, you feel the trinity must be folly because it cant be explained fully in a way for people to understand so i therefore asked the question "can you explain the origin of God"? If he doesnt have an origin, how did he come into existence?
If you cant explain it, thus believing it by faith, what then is your problem in believing the trinity by faith even if you dont seem to understand it, or maybe you cant imagine God has the power to exist in three persons.

My trinitarian brothers have given so many verses to support the trinity but you just try to mis-interprete them to mean something else, you question the scriptures and you call urself a christian? I doubt that.

Its obvious that you are still carnally minded so i will not blame you cod the bible says the things of God are foolishness unto a carnal man. You just cant imagine God can exist in 3 entities and yet one, so why do you call him omnipotent, hypocrisy!

Your argument against 1+1+1 being equal to 1 is just not relevant, how come we have 1*1*1=1 ? Is it jazz?

If you will understand that God is all-powerful, probably you take away that doubt of God being able to exist in 3 entities.

haibe:

Using natural wisdom to understand spiritual things, so funny of you, well the trinity might seem foolish to you but its the foolish things of this world that God uses to confound the wise.

Indeed but the Spirit of GOD reveals the things of the Spirit to us his children as the following scripture clearly says.

"but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:10

Additionally , God has not left us in the dark regarding certain truths especially about himself, to know who God is will involve asking for more wisdom and insight from the Father, patience , diligent study and a heart which yearns to rightly divide the word of truth , based not on the dogmas of human reasoning but the simple truths as laid out plainly in scripture.

"If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. " - James 1:5

My bro, i asked a question in another thread, you feel the trinity must be folly because it cant be explained fully in a way for people to understand so i therefore asked the question "can you explain the origin of God"? If he doesnt have an origin, how did he come into existence?
If you cant explain it, thus believing it by faith, what then is your problem in believing the trinity by faith even if you dont seem to understand it, or maybe you cant imagine God has the power to exist in three persons.

There are things revealed to us and there are things that aren't.

We do know however that GOD has no beginning and no end, that's fine for me. This much he has revealed.

But , one certainity in the scripture which God has made clear is that he is ONE and not 3.

I recommend that you take the following scriptures at face value and try to grasp their simplicity.


Consider the following scripture.

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me," - Isaiah 45:5

God here says I not US or WE, and he also uses the word ME and not US , finally he confirms his singularity by saying " There is no God apart from me ".


If these words I, ME are not plain to trinitarians then it must be because of the trinitarian delusion which is a strong delusion indeed.


Let me reinforce this explanation with another verse in scripture which underlies everything monotheists have been trying to say all along.


"See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand." - Deuteronomy 32:39

Here again God uses the words, I , HE, Myself, MY.

Tell me brother, what is so confusing about this verse, surely this in itself is enough evidence to ascertain that our GOD is not 3 gods as Pagans will normally try to depict , but ONE.

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." - Mark 12:29

My trinitarian brothers have given so many verses to support the trinity but you just try to mis-interprete them to mean something else, you question the scriptures and you call urself a christian? I doubt that.

They have not. All the verses quoted never for once mentioned Jesus saying we are 3 or God saying we are 3. If God is 3 he cannot be one, it is a SHAME that atheists and others can see through the illogicality of the Trinity more than so called Christians care to undertand.

This morning I was watching TBN, a caller asked the same question about the Trinity , the host could not answer in clear terms , other than saying it is a mystery. What nonsense mystery is this when God has revealed his true nature to us through his word.

Its obvious that you are still carnally minded so i will not blame you cod the bible says the things of God are foolishness unto a carnal man. You just cant imagine God can exist in 3 entities and yet one, so why do you call him omnipotent, hypocrisy!

God cannot exist in 3 entities, it is sad that you protect your individualism while trying to rob God of his.

We all agree that you are one person, though you may say I am soul, spirit and body which is a story for another day, you still exist as YOU , your soul is not me or another person.

The Trinity is blasphemy and totally defeats the concept of the last Adam coming fully as a MAN to undo what the first ADAM had damaged. This false gospel also puts the feats of Jesus out of our reach , hence the rampant sin that exists in the church today.

Your argument against 1+1+1 being equal to 1 is just not relevant, how come we have 1*1*1=1 ? Is it jazz?

God gave you a brain to reason and understand logic. God is a God of logic not illogic.

1 + 1 + 1 = 3 not 1

If you will understand that God is all-powerful, probably you take away that doubt of God being able to exist in 3 entities.

Stop confusing yourself , how can you call GOD one and say he is 3 persons ?


Read your bible.

As usual frosbel, repeating the same old story, am sorry for you, not really in a mood of writing another essay, coming back for you.

And frosbel, what can you say about melchisedec? And the fact that he has no beginning and end.

frosbel:

Indeed but the Spirit of GOD reveals the things of the Spirit to us his children as the following scripture clearly says.

"but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:10

Additionally , God has not left us in the dark regarding certain truths especially about himself, to know who God is will involve asking for more wisdom and insight from the Father, patience , diligent study and a heart which yearns to rightly divide the word of truth , based not on the dogmas of human reasoning but the simple truths as laid out plainly in scripture.

"If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. " - James 1:5




There are things revealed to us and there are things that aren't.

We do know however that GOD has no beginning and no end, that's fine for me. This much he has revealed.

But , one certainity in the scripture which God has made clear is that he is ONE and not 3.

I recommend that you take the following scriptures at face value and try to grasp their simplicity.


Consider the following scripture.

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me," - Isaiah 45:5

God here says I not US or WE, and he also uses the word ME and not US , finally he confirms his singularity by saying " There is no God apart from me ".


If these words I, ME are not plain to trinitarians then it must be because of the trinitarian delusion which is a strong delusion indeed.


Let me reinforce this explanation with another verse in scripture which underlies everything monotheists have been trying to say all along.


"See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand." - Deuteronomy 32:39

Here again God uses the words, I , HE, Myself, MY.

Tell me brother, what is so confusing about this verse, surely this in itself is enough evidence to ascertain that our GOD is not 3 gods as Pagans will normally try to depict , but ONE.

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." - Mark 12:29




They have not. All the verses quoted never for once mentioned Jesus saying we are 3 or God saying we are 3. If God is 3 he cannot be one, it is a SHAME that atheists and others can see through the illogicality of the Trinity more than so called Christians care to undertand.

This morning I was watching TBN, a caller asked the same question about the Trinity , the host could not answer in clear terms , other than saying it is a mystery. What nonsense mystery is this when God has revealed his true nature to us through his word.



God cannot exist in 3 entities, it is sad that you protect your individualism while trying to rob God of his.

We all agree that you are one person, though you may say I am soul, spirit and body which is a story for another day, you still exist as YOU , your soul is not me or another person.

The Trinity is blasphemy and totally defeats the concept of the last Adam coming fully as a MAN to undo what the first ADAM had damaged. This false gospel also puts the feats of Jesus out of our reach , hence the rampant sin that exists in the church today.



God gave you a brain to reason and understand logic. God is a God of logic not illogic.

1 + 1 + 1 = 3 not 1



Stop confusing yourself , how can you call GOD one and say he is 3 persons ?


Read your bible.

Let me tell you what blasphemy is, Frosbel. It is making the Holy Spirit, Jesus or the Father less than they are. It is calling the Holy Spirit an impersonal force (I should mention that that is unforgivable, except it is done in ignorance). It is reducing the Lord Jesus to mortality and mere creaturehood. It is making the Father out to be a liar. I think you take the trophy here, Frosbel. At least, as far as blasphemy is concerned.

[quote author=Ihedinobi]

Let me tell you what blasphemy is, Frosbel. It is making the Holy Spirit, Jesus or the Father less than they are. It is calling the Holy Spirit an impersonal force (I should mention that that is unforgivable, except it is done in ignorance). It is reducing the Lord Jesus to mortality and mere creaturehood. It is making the Father out to be a liar. I think you take the trophy here, Frosbel. At least, as far as blasphemy is concerned.

The Trinity position is preposterous and involves a suspension of reason to come to a most erroneous conclusion.

God the Father is Yahweh Almighty

Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD and subject to the father

The Holy Spirit is simply God's spirit which he pours out.


Think about the following verses :

"For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit." - John 3:34

The Spirit in this sense is obviously God's spirit , I really wonder how anyone can come to a different conclusion.

To suggest that God is Spirit also has another Spirit is blasphemy.


Another verse I will like to point out.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Which of you is a father whose son will ask him for bread and would hand him a stone, and if he asks him for a fish will, instead of a fish, hand him a snake,“And if he would ask of him an egg, would give him a scorpion?”“And if you, who are evil, know to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in Heaven give The Spirit of Holiness to those who ask him?” - Luke 11:11-13

It is evident with this scripture that God the father is the one who gives us the Spirit , the Spirit is GOD and therefore not separate from him.


Finally , regarding the divinity of Christ this is and has never been under question, after all his Father is GOD hence his deity.

Blasphemy is misrepresenting God as 3 individuals instead of ONE Almighty God. As I said earlier and many are beginning to notice , this is the spirit of the anti-Christ that denies the father and son and makes them both GOD .

God sent his only begotten SON as 100% man to die for our sins, God did not come as a man and die , this is just heresy .

Just because you have believed something all your life does not make it true.

And yes Jesus was begotten by GOD through his word, the bible says it not me, except of course you want to start another round of mental gymnastics.

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" - Colossians 1:15

^^^^ says the man who demands that God be small enough to fit into his intellect. Do you even know what blasphemy is, Frosbel? You really spout a lot of ignorance and confusion.

God does not have to make sense to you. If He says that He is One God and Three Persons, your place is to pray for understanding. To scream that it does not make sense to you and therefore is not true is plain foolishness.

What is more, if others comprehend to a reasonable extent the thing that you don't, do you know the humility involved in listening to them? You are proud, Frosbel, filled with the pride that cost Satan and his angels their place. Scriptures say that the angels that kept not their first estate (in other words, betrayed the trust given to them by their Creator) have been reserved in chains of darkness till the Day of Judgment. Do you realize that this is the fate of all who aspire to equality with God but who have no such position or right?

It was that pride that made Satan covet the position of the Son of God that put him in his current situation. The chains of darkness that Jude (and, I think, Peter) spoke is symbolic of the darkening of understanding. Satan is divorced from the Truth of God, and so is everyone who is under his umbrella. He cannot know Truth anymore. He touches Truth only in order to corrupt it. Do you realize what this means? That means that Satan and his angels are hardened against God and cannot repent.

That is possible because they demanded to be God too, which demand God granted. In demanding that God's Nature must be fully comprehensible to you to the point of obeying the laws of finite mathematics, you demand that the creature equal the Creator. Because whatever the intellect can fully encompass is necessarily less than the intellect. That is the error in which you are caught.

I have been praying for you, hoping that the Lord will show you mercy and rescue you but ever since the day you opened your mouth against the Holy Spirit, I have wondered if the prayers really count at all. Perhaps these words will fail of reaching you as well. But I sincerely hope that they do not.

One final thing that I will point out to you is the error that the few or the minority are the correct. That is no Scriptural principle. The Revelation of Jesus Christ as given through our brother John the Beloved indicates that Satan's corruption took only a third of the angels. He was in the minority. Furthermore, we receive from the same book that the number of the Lord's children in heaven when things are summed up at the end is innumerable. Salvation embraces more than just the few. I grant you that the Lord's children are no meagre minority. So, when you are in a small group, don't imagine that that means that you're in the only correct group. In fact, pride of necessity keeps very tight groupings so tight that it ends up as a group of one.

You are in error, Frosbel. Grievous error at that. Argument is incapable of correcting it. My fear for you now is that you have stopped your ears and shut eyes against the Truth. Unless you define a thing as true, it will not be true. That is what results when the Holy Spirit has been rejected from a life. Again I ask, "how can that be seeing that you claim familial relationship to the same Holy Spirit?" You could never say the things you are saying now if you ever belonged in my Father's house.

I pray that this is ignorance so that the Lord may have mercy upon you. I really really doubt that it is though.

Edit: I see that there is still quite a bit of confusion in your perception of these things. It gives me hope. If you can say that Jesus is divine or deity because His Father is while swearing that the Father and the Son are not both God, there may still be some hope. Because the two things are contrary. Only one of the two is true and the other is false. They cannot both be true.

Ihedinobi: ^^^^ says the man who demands that God be small enough to fit into his intellect. Do you even know what blasphemy is, Frosbel? You really spout a lot of ignorance.

ok

God does not have to make sense to you.

Herein lies the foundation of your error.

If He says that He is One God and Three Persons, your place is to pray for understanding. To scream that it does not make sense to you and therefore is not true is plain foolishness.

And God said he is 3 persons ?

Can you kindly show me exactly where God said he is 3 persons, or is this another one of those figments of your imagination ?

What is more, if others comprehend to a reasonable extent the thing that you don't, do you know the humility involved in listening to them? You are proud, Frosbel, filled with the pride that cost Satan and his angels their place. Scriptures say that the angels that kept not their first estate (in other words, betrayed the trust given to them by their Creator) have been reserved in chains of darkness till the Day of Judgment. Do you realize that this is the fate of all who aspire to equality with God but who have no such position or right?

So says the one who is battling with arrogance, I am glad others have taken note.

Unlike you , I do not use my own words to buttress my points but scripture , the same scripture that you disdain.

It was that pride that made Satan covet the position of the Son of God that put him in his current situation. The chains of darkness that Jude (and, I think, Peter) spoke is symbolic of the darkening of understanding. Satan is divorced from the Truth of God, and so is everyone who is under his umbrella. He cannot know Truth anymore. He touches Truth only in order to corrupt it. Do you realize what this means? That means that Satan and his angels are hardened against God and cannot repent.

The same way you are divorced from the truth , no ?

I lost interest in the rest of you rant, something I am used to , endless essays totally void of inspiration and parading as the wisdom of God .

There is hope for you.

frosbel:

ok



Herein lies the foundation of your error.



And God said he is 3 persons ?

Can you kindly show me exactly where God said he is 3 persons, or is this another one of those figments of your imagination ?



So says the one who is battling with arrogance, I am glad others have taken note.

Unlike you , I do not use my own words to buttress my points but scripture , the same scripture that you disdain.




The same way you are divorced from the truth , no ?

I lost interest in the rest of you rant, something I am used to , endless essays totally void of inspiration and parading as the wisdom of God .

There is hope for you.

Whatever, man. You won't be hearing from me about this again. It is enough for me that I have spoken what I have been given to speak. I leave you to your pride.

Would like to make something clear:

God is yahweh, not necessarily the Father only but including the Son and Holy ghost.

I know this might be hard to believe cos God dint reveal himself as Jesus until the NT but its just the truth that yahweh doesnt mean the Father only.

Amos 4:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 I have sent among you the pestilences after the manner of egypt: you young men have i slain with sword, and have taken away your horses,and i have made the stink of your camps to come up unto the nostrils: yet have ye not returned unto me, SAITH THE LORD
11 I have overthrown some of you, AS GOD overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a
firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.
12 Therefore thus will I do unto thee, O Israel: and because I will do this unto thee, prepare to
meet thy God, O Israel.

"Now the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of
Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the
heat of the day. When Abraham lifted up his eyes
and looked, behold, three men were standing
opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from
the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the
earth" Genesis 18:1-2

Even after abraham had seen three persons, here is what the bible says in verse 13.
"And Yahweh said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah
laugh, saying, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am
so old?' " Genesis 18:13