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34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Shocked! My Cousin Bro Died Of Motor Accident But His Spirit Is Disturbing / Paul Vs. Jesus's Teachings: Is There A Conflict? For serious bible scholars / Pastor Chris Oyakhilome: The Holy Spirit Is With You Forever (2) (3) (4)

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Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by MrAnony1(m): 5:36am On Sep 06, 2012
frosbel:

Thanks , we cannot be right all the time, but one thing I am certain off , is that God never meant to confuse us about himself.

Anything of confusion is of the devil.

The Trinity assigns 2 Spirits to God, God himself who is Spirit and the Holy Spirit.

The Trinity also assigns positions in a sort of hierarchy thereby relegating the Holy Spirit who in my opinion is the Spirit of God to the bottom.

Scripture does not support this position, we do not have multiple thrones in Heaven where God sits separate to the Holy Spirit.

God is ONE and so the Jews are bewildered by the Christian stance and view us as Polytheists.

On this one , I beg to differ.

thanks


No my brother, God's nature of Trinity is not one of those things a christian can "beg to differ" on.

The problem with rejecting Trinity is that once you do that, you will immediately start to discount some parts of the bible as fake and then gradually the bible looses it's authority for you and from there, it's a steady decline into apostasy.

I'm pretty occupied at the moment but I'll make out time and we'll properly have this chat.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 8:22am On Sep 06, 2012
Mr_Anony:
No my brother, God's nature of Trinity is not one of those things a christian can "beg to differ" on.

The problem with rejecting Trinity is that once you do that, you will immediately start to discount some parts of the bible as fake and then gradually the bible looses it's authority for you and from there, it's a steady decline into apostasy.

I'm pretty occupied at the moment but I'll make out time and we'll properly have this chat.


On the contrary it is when u accept d pagan triology that u'll have a problem explaining scriptures.....

And u'v had that problem a million times...

The doctrine has been over-modified and still it sounds absurd and off track....

Show us just 1 verse that has d expression ""GOD the holy spirit"" and I will agree the holy spirit is GOD and part of the trinity...

But no way!!!!....it is not in d bible.....

Rather u have to start bringing few verses to back up a point that never existed.......

U talk about 3rd person,but again disagree that it is not 3 gods but 1.....

If u guys choose to hold on to the modalism dogma I will tryna understand....but by d definition of the trinity I can see most of u are running away from it.....

3 distinct persons,but making 1 person @ d same time....sounds like noob saibot to me....


The doctrine is pagan like d purgatory and mary worship....shikena!!!!

2 Likes

Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 9:45am On Sep 06, 2012
The Catholic church started the :

Trinity
Immaculate Conception
Eternal Hell
Immortal Soul
Ascension of Mary
Purgatory


The Bible does not give us a doctrine of a trinity, the historical record shows that modern Christian trinitarian beliefs were not formulated until about 300 years after the death of Jesus Christ, but in pagan religions trinitarian beliefs date back to ancient Babylon, thousands of years before Jesus Christ. The coequal, coeternal, one substance, three in one trinity is not a Christian Biblical doctrine; yet there are those who insist that it is the cornerstone of Christianity.

In our day and time the doctrine of the trinity is a cornerstone of idolatry.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 10:49am On Sep 06, 2012
Mr_Anony:
No my brother, God's nature of Trinity is not one of those things a christian can "beg to differ" on.

The problem with rejecting Trinity is that once you do that, you will immediately start to discount some parts of the bible as fake and then gradually the bible looses it's authority for you and from there, it's a steady decline into apostasy.

I'm pretty occupied at the moment but I'll make out time and we'll properly have this chat.


May Father bless your efforts, my brother.

@Frosbel
It is quite difficult for me to address any argument or comment you post. I address them with questions to encourage you to consider possible oversights in explanations you accept as true.

For instance, if you insist that Jesus, and not the Trinity, is the cornerstone of Christianity, then you have to explain Who or What Jesus is. But if I engaged you in a debate presenting Scriptures that show that in the Man Jesus, the full Godhead is embodied, then you would reply with Scriptures that appear to confound the concept of a Godhead. If I try to show non-contradiction between the two bodies of Scripture, you will accuse me of employing human wisdom if I disagree with you. Then you will proceed to do the exact same thing and where things become difficult, declare that it is a mystery that we cannot know at all.

That's the problem. So instead of starting such a war that will lead to a ripping up of the Bible, I ask questions. In the case where you say that Jesus is the cornerstone of Christianity as against the Trinity, I'd ask what you think the following two passages mean.

2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV

. . .that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself. . .


Hebrews 9:14 KJV

. . .Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God. . .


I have understanding of the Nature Of God. This understanding is not full yet, but it's still incontrovertible by any argument this side of Life. How so? It is not understanding that was reached by argument. It was understanding that was received as a gift. And one that I have tested by argument and questions and which has stood unwavering and confounded the arguments and questions.

So, I am not interested in trying to convince you about it. I am only interested in proving the perfectness of the foundation of your position. It is what I have learned to do with discussions about doctrines with Christians.

The proof that the person holding the position that is being proved with questions and arguments is a Christian is their submission to test.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ichuka(m): 11:13am On Sep 06, 2012
frosbel: [/quote][quote author=frosbel]
@FROSBEL
you might be right about the verse i quoted(1John5:7)earlier,but it doesnt change the fact that the Holy Spirit is a person.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 11:18am On Sep 06, 2012
Ihedinobi:

May Father bless your efforts, my brother.

@Frosbel
It is quite difficult for me to address any argument or comment you post. I address them with questions to encourage you to consider possible oversights in explanations you accept as true.

For instance, if you insist that Jesus, and not the Trinity, is the cornerstone of Christianity, then you have to explain Who or What Jesus is. But if I engaged you in a debate presenting Scriptures that show that in the Man Jesus, the full Godhead is embodied, then you would reply with Scriptures that appear to confound the concept of a Godhead. If I try to show non-contradiction between the two bodies of Scripture, you will accuse me of employing human wisdom if I disagree with you. Then you will proceed to do the exact same thing and where things become difficult, declare that it is a mystery that we cannot know at all.

That's the problem. So instead of starting such a war that will lead to a ripping up of the Bible, I ask questions. In the case where you say that Jesus is the cornerstone of Christianity as against the Trinity, I'd ask what you think the following two passages mean.

2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV

. . .that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself. . .


Hebrews 9:14 KJV

. . .Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God. . .


I have understanding of the Nature Of God. This understanding is not full yet, but it's still incontrovertible by any argument this side of Life. How so? It is not understanding that was reached by argument. It was understanding that was received as a gift. And one that I have tested by argument and questions and which has stood unwavering and confounded the arguments and questions.

So, I am not interested in trying to convince you about it. I am only interested in proving the perfectness of the foundation of your position. It is what I have learned to do with discussions about doctrines with Christians.

The proof that the person holding the position that is being proved with questions and arguments is a Christian is their submission to test.

Thanks for you measured response.

End of the day , we are mature people with no personal axe to grind, if we make mistakes we should be corrected in LOVE, even when we do not agree we can disagree but unite on the foundation of our faith which is Christ Jesus , though you may hold exceptions to this.

For me, I do a lot of reading and ask God for wisdom almost everyday. I compare scripture with scripture and the Trinity does not add up.

Consider the following :

A. Jesus Christ was tempted in all points yet without sin and is therefore able to succour us when we are tempted. Remember God cannot be tempted.

James 1:
"13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; "


Jesus had to be 100% man to undo what the first Adam failed to do which was to overcome the temptations of Satan. Jesus had to be an overcomer to lay down the path to life for us to follow.

What marked Jesus as different were two things :

1. Jesus did not inherit our sinful nature through Adam , he was begotten by the Holy Spirit.

2. Jesus Christ had the divine nature of God through the Holy Spirit.


To suggest that Jesus was man and GOD means that he was not 100% man. For example Jesus died and was in the grave for 3 days, what Trintarians cannot tell us is where the god part of him went to during those 3 days.



B. Peter referred to Jesus Christ as a Man and Lord but never GOD.

"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross." - Acts 2:22

Paul referred to Jesus also as Man and Lord, but never GOD.

"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit." - 1 Corinthians 15:45



C. Jesus Christ said time and time again that the Father ( Yahweh ) was greater than him.

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." - John 14:28



D. At the end of the Age Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father.

"Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power." - 1 Corinthians 15:24


Finally there is no doubt that our Lord in his glorified state is divine , as he is the fullness of the deity expressed in bodily form, but this is not the point. The point is that Yahweh is not JESUS.


If you disagree I hope that you will not vilify me for my beliefs.

Thank You.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Sweetnecta: 11:22am On Sep 06, 2012
@manmacho: You never came back to respond to my inquiry about the speaking comforter who is the spirit of truth.


how does the holy spirit, a ghost unseen hears and then tell humans by speech what he heard?

considering this ghost being the God, according to you, and yours, how does this God hears from God and then speaks to man as a messenger what he heard from himself?

it does not make sense.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 11:25am On Sep 06, 2012
i.chuka:

@FROSBEL
you might be right about the verse i quoted(1John5:7)earlier,but it doesnt change the fact that the Holy Spirit is a person.

You are insinuating that God has 2 Spirits.

My friend, reply on scripture, not tradition.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Goshen360(m): 12:47pm On Sep 06, 2012
@ Frosbel, I hope you are not ignoring my question intentionally?

Goshen360:
Is God, the father called God in the Bible? YES or NO

Is Jesus called God in the bible? Yes or NO

Is the Holy Spirit called God in the bible? YES or NO

Answers to these questions will end all this arguments. Thank you.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 12:55pm On Sep 06, 2012
Goshen360: @ Frosbel, I hope you are not ignoring my question intentionally?



Okay , you are my friend, let me answer you grin

Only the Father is GOD. Father GOD has Heaven as his throne and reaches out to us through his Spirit which is really the Holy Spirit, self explanatory , since God is Holy.

examples :

Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." - Genesis 6:3

"This is what I covenanted with you when you came out of Egypt. And my Spirit remains among you. Do not fear.'" - Haggai 2:5


So the Holy Spirit is GOD because it is actually HIM, in other words the Father's Spirit or presence on a universal scale such as in the church or in the life of believers.


Jesus Christ is NOT GOD in the sense that he is NOT YAHWEH.


But he is the Lord of Lord and King of Kings who will rule the new Heaven and Earth after crushing all the present earthly kingdoms.

He is also the Alpha and Omega, the first born from the DEAD and our everlasting Redeemer.


In summary :

Is Jesus called God in the bible? Yes or NO = If you mean YAHWEH , then NO

Is the Holy Spirit called God in the bible? YES or NO = YES but only because he is GOD, i.e the Spirit of GOD
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Goshen360(m): 1:43pm On Sep 06, 2012
frosbel:

Okay , you are my friend, let me answer you grin

Only the Father is GOD. Father GOD has Heaven as his throne and reaches out to us through his Spirit which is really the Holy Spirit, self explanatory , since God is Holy.

examples :

Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." - Genesis 6:3

"This is what I covenanted with you when you came out of Egypt. And my Spirit remains among you. Do not fear.'" - Haggai 2:5


So the Holy Spirit is GOD because it is actually HIM, in other words the Father's Spirit or presence on a universal scale such as in the church or in the life of believers.


Jesus Christ is NOT GOD in the sense that he is NOT YAHWEH.


But he is the Lord of Lord and King of Kings who will rule the new Heaven and Earth after crushing all the present earthly kingdoms.

He is also the Alpha and Omega, the first born from the DEAD and our everlasting Redeemer.


In summary :

Is Jesus called God in the bible? Yes or NO = If you mean YAHWEH , then NO

Is the Holy Spirit called God in the bible? YES or NO = YES but only because he is GOD, i.e the Spirit of GOD


Okay, I do NOT mean Jesus being Yahweh. So will your answer about Jesus being called God (not Yahweh) be YES since you answered NO if I meant Yahweh?

Second, Are you "saying" or "suggesting" that the Holy Spirit is NOT different from the Father? I am NOT here to argue anyway because I do not have much strength for argument at this time BUT I want to show you a scripture that "suggest" that the Holy Spirit is not like "man having a spirit" but a separate being from God, the father because God is Spirit and a Spirit having a spirit is out of point, then it will mean that the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God (just different names terminologies) is separate from the God, the Father.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 5:03pm On Sep 06, 2012
Frosbel, believe me when I say that I do not cherish arguments over interpretation of the Bible. They annoy me to no end. So I still will not respond with arguments.

Permit me to make one observation first. This current position which essentially refuses acknowledgment of the Godhead is not the same as the position you held on your thread on the Trinity. You degenerated from that position to throwing out the place of the Holy Spirit and now in this last post of yours Jesus's Divinity has come into question. You do know that there's nothing between this current position and throwing God out altogether, don't you? In fact, once one member of the Godhead has been thrown out, God can no longer be truly accommodated and atheism aka idolatry sets in. The position of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a pretension at best. What they have amounts to a Godless Christianity, which very concept is nonsense. What use is God when He's an utterly remote reality?

As for the questions that you asked, my answer is encapsulated in this question: how did Jesus's death suffice to reconcile fallen humanity to God?

It's a question I've asked before on my own thread about the Trinity.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Goshen360(m): 5:19pm On Sep 06, 2012
^^^
I guess you and this brother (okeyxyz) are saying the same thing to our brother Frosbel. This brother said on the other thread and I kind of agree with his view and yours.

okeyxyz: Clearly the new-testament talks about three distinct entities(Let's not call them persons now. I guess that's the contention), God the Father, who we all agree is not Jesus, then jesus himself who is "the son", then there is the Holy Spirit which(whom??) jesus categorically says would come after himself and by whose power and guidiance the apostles claim to be led and perform miracles. So we have The Father, Jesus and Holy-Spirit, each unique and different from the other. Why does @Frosbel & co try so hard to abolish the Holy-Spirit and cling only to Father & Son?

@ Frosbel, e be like say you don read/study too much and now confused grin. Abeg take am easy o. cheesy cool
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 5:20pm On Sep 06, 2012
Ihedinobi: Frosbel, believe me when I say that I do not cherish arguments over interpretation of the Bible. They annoy me to no end. So I still will not respond with arguments.

Permit me to make one observation first. This current position which essentially refuses acknowledgment of the Godhead is not the same as the position you held on your thread on the Trinity. You degenerated from that position to throwing out the place of the Holy Spirit and now in this last post of yours Jesus's Divinity has come into question. You do know that there's nothing between this current position and throwing God out altogether, don't you? In fact, once one member of the Godhead has been thrown out, God can no longer be truly accommodated and atheism aka idolatry sets in. The position of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a pretension at best. What they have amounts to a Godless Christianity, which very concept is nonsense. What use is God when He's an utterly remote reality?

[/b]

It's a question I've asked before on my own thread about the Trinity.


Jesus's divinity has never been under question.

What has been under contention is if Jesus Christ as Lord is also the one and ONLY TRUE GOD.

The Holy Spirit is not separate from GOD but is his Spirit.


As for the questions that you asked, my answer is encapsulated in this question: [b]how did Jesus's death suffice to reconcile fallen humanity to God?


Absolutely 100%.

His death has satisfied God and redeemed us from the curse of SIN and DEATH.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Goshen360(m): 5:35pm On Sep 06, 2012
frosbel:


Jesus's divinity has never been under question.

What has been under contention is if Jesus Christ as Lord is also the one and ONLY TRUE GOD.

The Holy Spirit is not separate from GOD but is his Spirit.


This is what am trying to correct on the other thread. You fall for this error because you admit God is a PERSON and have BODILY FORM hence, you conclude God has a Spirit like man. When you admit the words of Jesus that God is Spirit, then you will need to answer the question how it is possible from anywhere in the bible that a Spirit (God) will have another Spirit. If you believe God is Spirit, and Spirit cannot have another Spirit, then you will re-visit this concept you have about Trinity and see the Holy Spirit as distinct from God, the father and God's Spirit.

1 Like

Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 5:58pm On Sep 06, 2012
Goshen360:

This is what am trying to correct on the other thread. You fall for this error because you admit God is a PERSON and have BODILY FORM hence, you conclude God has a Spirit like man. When you admit the words of Jesus that God is Spirit, then you will need to answer the question how it is possible from anywhere in the bible that a Spirit (God) will have another Spirit. If you believe God is Spirit, and Spirit cannot have another Spirit, then you will re-visit this concept you have about Trinity and see the Holy Spirit as distinct from God, the father and God's Spirit.


God's Spirit is not seperate from God himself.

God's Spirit is GOD's influence, Power in the universe / world.

They are not TWO.

If God is a Spirit and the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit then we have 2 Spirits , right Also our Lord Jesus is a life giving Spirit , so that makes 3 Spirits now


Put that catholic doctrine behind you bro .

I end my debate here !
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 6:00pm On Sep 06, 2012
frosbel:


Jesus's divinity has never been under question.

What has been under contention is if Jesus Christ as Lord is also the one and ONLY TRUE GOD.

The Holy Spirit is not separate from GOD but is his Spirit.





Absolutely 100%.

His death has satisfied God and redeemed us from the curse of SIN and DEATH.

I'm sorry but the question was "how?" not "did?" How did His Death do so?
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 6:01pm On Sep 06, 2012
Ihedinobi:

I'm sorry but the question was "how?" not "did?" How did His Death do so?

Read your bible , the answer should be there !
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by brainpulse: 6:02pm On Sep 06, 2012
frosbel:


God's Spirit is not seperate from God himself.

God's Spirit is GOD's influence, Power in the universe / world.

They are not TWO.

If God is a Spirit and the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit then we have 2 Spirits , right Also our Lord Jesus is a life giving Spirit , so that makes 3 Spirits now


Put that catholic doctrine behind you bro .

I end my debate here !

You have just identified and went to the Line of the Eckist by saying" God's Spirit is GOD's influence, Power in the universe " you can only add FORCE to yours
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 6:08pm On Sep 06, 2012
frosbel:

Read your bible , the answer should be there !

Of course it is. The question addresses whether it was just a holy man who died to redeem creation or if it was God Who submitted to Satan's power of Death in order to destroy creation's bondage to it.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 6:24pm On Sep 06, 2012
Goshen360: ^^^
I guess you and this brother (okeyxyz) are saying the same thing to our brother Frosbel. This brother said on the other thread and I kind of agree with his view and yours.



@ Frosbel, e be like say you don read/study too much and now confused grin. Abeg take am easy o. cheesy cool


Why do we reside on the Yahweh and Jesus premise??..

Because right there in heaven we only see 2 persons...

Yahweh sitting on his majestic throne and Jesus his son sitting the right hand of Yahweh...,,the holy spirit if its a person is no where to be found.......

And frosbels point is Jesus is not Yahweh...

Goshen if I may ask u;;;;;:::::


IS JESUS d same person as YAHWEH??

Is Jesus the same as the Father??

The trinity dogma teaches that Yahweh and Jesus are equal(that no one is greater than the other)...it also now teaches(the modified version) that Yahweh is Jesus and Jesus is Yahweh(not 2 distinct persons).......

Another question...::::can any1 just show me 1 scripture that uses the. Expression ""GOD the Holy Spirit""??or that explicitly calls the holy spirit a GOD or GOD??

I need these answers so that we can further scan this doctrine called trinity...

Catholics even killed persons to enforce this pagan doctrine of triad GODS....

I still stick to Jesus's words and recitation...

""Listen O isreal Yahweh our GOD is 1 GOD""....
Not 3 GODS in 1 Godhead....neither 1 person manifesting in 3 forms....
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Goshen360(m): 6:55pm On Sep 06, 2012
@ Ijawkid,

I don't believe Jesus is the same as Yahweh, I believe they are distinct but ONE in purpose and Unity and both or all are called God. The bible calls the Father God, the Bible calls Jesus God and the Bible calls the Holy Spirit God.

And if I show you where the Bible calls the Holy Spirit God, will it change you view about Trinity? And what will your view be after showing you scripture where the Holy Spirit is called God?
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Sweetnecta: 7:09pm On Sep 06, 2012
@Frosbel: according to you, Yahweh is Spirit only. But He sits on a chair/Throne.
Holy Spirit is the spirit of Yahweh, that came from Yahweh. So Holy spirit is the second Spirit along with Yahweh, the spirit that sits on the Throne.
Jesus is not a spirit, but a solid body as seen on earth.

But all the 3 are Gods, though you sheepishly say Jesus is only Lord like the british house of lords or just a tag higher.

Is the above correct so far?


Incidentally, Spirit of Yahweh which is the second spirit of Yahweh, the holy spirit is the most junior of the Gods.
It gets interesting when you realize that why would One God have 2 spirits, one higher and the other so junior that human Jesus is its senior in the 3 Gods formula?

But all of these are beside the point of the holy spirit as another comforter.
The another comforter was supposed to hear from Yahweh Who will command him. Then the another comforter will follow the commandment of Yahweh by speaking as in repeating exactly what he heard from Yahweh. He can not add or subtract from it.

In his action of speech and act, the another comforter will correct mistakes; what were the mistakes and what were the corrections?

Lets start from this to truly clarify the Holy Spirit that does not talk as the Another Comforter. What book are his speeches collect and memorialized in?


@all christians; Let us have your proofs.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Image123(m): 9:08pm On Sep 06, 2012
obviously, fros has never experienced the real Holy Spirit, else he won't be talking about Him being just a force and not a person. had the deeper life form of godliness with no power. my sure view BTW
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 9:12pm On Sep 06, 2012
Image123: obviously, fros has never experienced the real Holy Spirit, else he won't be talking about Him being just a force and not a person. had the deeper life form of godliness with no power. my sure view BTW

So says my judge grin

God poured out his Spirit upon me as promised in Joel and I was saved by his mercy and grace.

"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams." - A[b]cts 2:17[/b]

I had a definitive act of salvation not some random repeating of a prayer or going for an altar call.

God chose me because he loves me, if you say he did not save me, I leave the ball in your court.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 10:50pm On Sep 06, 2012
At times the claims of Trinitarian apologists are downright ridiculous.

How many times have you heard a Trinitarian claim the Magi bowed down before baby Jesus because they knew he was God? How many times have you heard them claim that nobody would do such a thing unless he was indeed God? How many times have you wondered if they bowed down before him simply because he was the King of the Jews? And have you ever wondered if they, and even the Jewish people themselves, considered it appropriate to bow down before a King? Do Trinitarians really expect us to believe the Jews did not know anything about a three person God because God had not yet "fully revealed himself" but the pagan Magi were well aware that Jesus was God?

And when Mary his mother changed baby Jesus' diapers did she really think she was changing God's diapers? Or was Jesus' own mother not privy to the same insight as the Trinitarians? The Bible says Jesus was subject to Joseph and Mary. It must have been quite difficult for them to have such authority over God. "God, go to your room!" And are we really to believe that Joseph was guarding God from Herod when he fled to Egypt with little Jesus? And when Joseph and Mary realized they had lost Jesus on their trip home from Jerusalem, are we really to believe they were worried they had inadvertently left God behind? And what was God doing growing in wisdom and favor with God and men anyway?

Are we really to accept the Trinitarian translation of Hebrews 1:8, "To the Son he says, 'Your throne O God is forever and ever" and blindly fail to notice the very next verse would then refer to God's God? Are we really supposed to be completely blind to the fact that this would have God the Father speaking to God the Son and reminding God the Son that he has a God? Are we really to accept the Trinitarian "only begotten God" manuscript variant of John 1:18 when it says this only begotten God reveals God the Father who happens to be the unbegotten God? Are we really supposed to stick our tongue in cheek and not see that this would result in a begotten God revealing an unbegotten God. That would be two Gods, one begotten and one not. How many doses of denial do they expect us to take?

Are we really to pretend Jesus was omniscient, all knowing, when we are told that he increased in wisdom? Are we really supposed to believe this preposterous claim when Jesus himself said only the Father knew the day and hour of his return? Did the word "only" lose its meaning last night? Just to what extent to Trinitarians expect us to deceive ourselves?

And when Trinitarians respond to John 20:17 by pointing out that Jesus said, "My God and your God" but did not say "My God and our God," just what exactly are they suggesting? That Jesus' God is a different God than our God? What difference would it make? Isn't "My God and Your God" simply an emphatic way of saying "Our God?" And if you only believe in one God then there is no difference in the identity of "My God" and "your God" is there? Or perhaps their entire goal was to confuse the issue to avoid the implications of Jesus words? After all, he is saying that our God is the same God as his God. Who was his God? Just what are Trinitarian apologists trying to do here?
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by aletheia(m): 12:03am On Sep 07, 2012
frosbel:
God's Spirit is GOD's influence, Power in the universe / world.
. . .and thus is the obfuscation laid bare.

Reminds me of these quotes: "A fanatic is a man who consciously over compensates a secret doubt"; and "A fanatic is a man who, when he's lost sight of his purpose, redoubles his effort."

The Holy Spirit is not a "Person" you say. . .and yet He is spoken of in the Scriptures using the masculine personal pronoun rather than the impersonal form:
1. He descended bodily on Jesus at Jordan.
2. He speaks. . .
3. He grieves. . .
4. He teaches. . .
5. He reminds. . .
6. He wills. . .
7 &c

Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
(Act 8:29)
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
(Act 13:2)

As it is written it is not good to have zeal without knowledge. And you do bear a striking similarity to those of whom this was written: For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Now would be a good time for you to calm down, humble yourself and go back to proper study of the word.

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Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Sweetnecta: 12:13am On Sep 07, 2012
^^^^ so who is that person that spoke, etc?

Is he a ghost, spirit or a body and soul he [man]? Whats is his name?

How will a he ghostly spirit speak, especially if He is a God, you claim?

is God supposed to listen to God speak, so that he can carry the speech to humans and then repeats it?

What a confusion, if God not the Author of confusion?

Imagine the confusion in this case between God and God when 1 God will talk to God number 2 so that he can merely regurgitate it to man?
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Fr0sbel: 12:17am On Sep 07, 2012
aletheia:
. . .and thus is the obfuscation laid bare.

Reminds me of these quotes: "A fanatic is a man who consciously over compensates a secret doubt"; and "A fanatic is a man who, when he's lost sight of his purpose, redoubles his effort."

You cannot simply humble yourself to address the topic, you immediately resort to name calling. This is exactly how the Catholics labelled anyone who disagreed with their creeds as fanatics or heretics.



The Holy Spirit is not a "Person" you say. . .and yet He is spoken of in the Scriptures using the masculine personal pronoun rather than the impersonal form:
1. He descended bodily on Jesus at Jordan.
2. He speaks. . .
3. He grieves. . .
4. He teaches. . .
5. He reminds. . .
6. He wills. . .
7 &c

Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
(Act 8:29)
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
(Act 13:2)


Ah okay , so this Spirit is different from God the Spirit.


So when God said he will pour his Spirit upon all flesh and which was fulfilled from the day of penetecost, whose Spirit was this, another Spirit called the Holy Spirit.



As it is written it is not good to have zeal without knowledge. And you do bear a striking similarity to those of whom this was written: For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Mate , I do not take lectures from Calvinists, those who believe in the OSAS doctrine ( Once saved always saved ).

And by the way can you explain to the audience, the spirit behind Calvin when he ordered the death of Michael Servetus for heresy because he rejected the trinity doctrine.


Just goes to show the spirit behind your pagan doctrine, not the Spirit of GOD for sure.


If you have time read the small comment from a brother below.

Bye.
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Fr0sbel: 12:24am On Sep 07, 2012
Michael Servetus was a Christian living in the 1500's who incurred the wrath of John Calvin and was murdered by him and his cronies for illegitimate reasons. He was accused of heresy and railroaded through a mock trial and put to death being burned alive at the stake. Yet such an atrocity was praised by even well-known Calvinists as Bullinger and others for generations.

A couple of quotes from John Calvin himself:

7 years before the incident:

"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."

After the incident:
"Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that (they allege) I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face."

"Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt.

Servetus' final words while being burned alive tied to a stake:
"Jesu, thou Son of the eternal God, have compassion upon me!"

Yet a heartless modern day Calvinist comments on this saying "This phrase epitomizes the essence of his Trinitarian error" for he said "Son of the eternal God" rather than "eternal Son of God"

Some Official Reasons for being burned alive:

Accused of teaching against infant baptism
Accused of defaming John Calvin
Accused of refraining from marriage for a "long time"
Accused of denying the Trinity

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/servetus.htm
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 9:52am On Sep 07, 2012
I honestly am starting to wonder if Frosbel thinks about the things he copies and pastes. Why is your argument, sir, no more than an insistence on the Roman Catholic origins of doctrines you dislike, a cherry-picking of Bible passages, an accusation of arrogance and persecution against holders of divergent views from yours and a condemnation of opposing views as evidence of bondage to tradition?

Do you realize that all that argument is emotional in character? There isn't much reason involved in it. A Christian is not so.

For instance, histories of the Church, to say nothing of the Bible, hold that the "doctrine" of the Trinity is older than the Roman Catholic Church. As another instance, is all tradition wrong? Tradition is that which holds true no matter the age or era in which it is found. In other words, tradition is principle. Therefore, it will not change. Expressions of it might, but not its essence. True tradition is not a respecter of time, person or political correctness. Does that remind you of anything or anyone?
Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by aletheia(m): 9:57am On Sep 07, 2012
Fr0sbel:
Persecute me for all I care, the truth must have it's way.

Persecute? Paranoia sets in. Your progression is sad to observe and all too predictable. Next will come the denial of the hypostasis of Jesus. . .the seeds of which are already evident in some of your posts on this thread, then a denial of some part of the scriptures as inspired.

Fr0sbel:
Ah okay , so this Spirit is different from God the Spirit.

Perhaps in Frosbel's personal bible version. . .the Holy Spirit is different from God. . .hence his confusion.

Fr0sbel:
You are utterly confused.
Clearly Frosbel is utterly confused as shown in his post below:
Fr0sbel:
So when God said he will pour his Spirit upon all flesh and which was fulfilled from the day of penetecost, whose Spirit was this, another Spirit called the Holy Spirit.

Fr0sbel:
Mate , I do not take lectures from Calvinists, those who believe in the OSAS doctrine ( Once saved always saved ).
Calvinists? How ironic. What a Pharisee and hypocrite your are. You are quick to attach labels to people and yet your displays and temperament is exactly like that of Calvin. . .arrogant, intolerant and convinced that he alone has the right of the matter. You are a true descendant of your father John Calvin.

As Jesus said to some like you Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Fr0sbel:
And by the way can you explain to the audience, the spirit behind Calvin when he ordered the death of Michael Servetus for heresy because he rejected the trinity doctrine.
The same spirit that actuates you Frosbel the spiritual son of Calvin.

Fr0sbel:
Just goes to show the spirit behind your pagan doctrine, not the Spirit of GOD for sure.
grin. Your true colours. . .exactly what your father Calvin would have used as justification for killing Servetus. Methinks Frosbel doth protest too much. Apparently I hit a little too close to home with these comments:
"A fanatic is a man who consciously over compensates a secret doubt"; and "A fanatic is a man who, when he's lost sight of his purpose, redoubles his effort."
Look here: Go and exorcise your doubts through diligent Bible study and Prayer and stop coming here to lead astray the brethren.

Fr0sbel:
Bye.
Au contraire, monsieur. You and I are far from done. Will be seeing you around.

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