frosbel:
Jesus Christ did not pre-exist as a being, he was begotten by God who overshadowed Mary with his Spirit.

Lol....I laugh in Yiddish.....
Mr frosbel, your deflections are pathetic. The question remains: What did Jesus pre-exist as? Is Jesus the same as the Word or is He a creation of it?

The question was never to trap you. I only wanted to draw you back to who Christ is. The problem is that you are so immersed in your anti-trinitarian war that you have moved your focus away from Christ.

I think you know the scriptural answer to the question I asked. Don't be so desperate to win an argument with faceless usernames that you lose that which is much greater.

frosbel:

Jesus Christ did not pre-exist as a being, he was begotten by God who overshadowed Mary with his Spirit.

This is were you are wrong. There is evidence all over the scriptures that christ pre exited as a being before his incarnation on earth via mary. If you continue along this path you would be setting yourself up for ridicule by these trinitarians who have already been beaten black and blue based on their false doctrine. What you are doing here is simply giving them ammunition to use against you. I would suggest you go back to scriptures and take a sound biblical position on this like you have done in other areas.

John 1

The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

[quote author=Pastor Kun]

This is were you are wrong. There is evidence all over the scriptures that christ pre exited as a being before his incarnation on earth via mary.

I have carefully examined the evidence and so far my position remains that Christ came into being when he was conceived by Mary , only difference between him and us to this regard is that Father GOD implanted the incorruptible seed that merged with Mary's egg to form the Zygote that would eventually mature into the baby called 'Emmanuel' meaning God with us or more accurately the presence of God with us.

I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father - Psalm 2:7

To beget is to sire or father for want of a better word.

The angels were created and are also called sons of GOD ( note the small letter s ) , but Jesus was begotten ONCE and as the MAN Jesus.

However , we can discuss this futher to make sure we are aligned with scripture.

Again JESUS was not begotten twice but once.

If you continue along this path you would be setting yourself up for ridicule by these trinitarians

I don't think they can ridicule me any worse than they already have , lol.

I am more careful to correctly discern the word of God than for their ridicule which by the way Jesus and the apostles were subject to 24/7.

who have already been beaten black and blue based on their false doctrine.

Indeed they have and deservedly so, which is why they have narrowed this discussion down to the deity of JESUS and no longer a 3-headed god

Of course no one for once ever contended the divinity of JESUS , but this is the straw man's argument that they bring to the table in order to falsify one's position before attacking. I am well aware and prepared.

I would suggest you go back to scriptures and take a sound biblical position on this like you have done in other areas.

We can discuss this here, not a problem, after all we are all learning. Most important thing is that we believe in JESUS as the Messiah , repent from our sins and follow him.

I doubt if God will cast anyone into hell for wrongly suggesting the pre-existent status of Christ.

Pastor Kun:

This is were you are wrong. There is evidence all over the scriptures that christ pre exited as a being before his incarnation on earth via mary. If you continue along this path you would be setting yourself up for ridicule by these trinitarians who have already been beaten black and blue based on their false doctrine. What you are doing here is simply giving them ammunition to use against you. I would suggest you go back to scriptures and take a sound biblical position on this like you have done in other areas.

Hahaha...ewoh!

Adding salt to injury.

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

in what way then was Jesus the last Adam if it does not include the fact that just as Adam was the first born on earth so also was Jesus the first born in heaven?

truthislight:

in what way then was Jesus the last Adam if it does not include the fact that just as Adam was the first born on earth so also was Jesus the first born in heaven?

Please add this to my latest article, we can all meet there and discuss.

No bad language or abuse allowed or a ban will follow

frosbel:


Please add this to my latest article, we can all meet there and discuss.

No bad language or abuse allowed or a ban will follow

i dont run in circles.

MR ANONY you have seen FROSBEL response, What do u hv to say about it, if u are too busy right now we understand, nd dear Frosbel do well to always visit this thread.

la cosa nostra: MR ANONY you have seen FROSBEL response, What do u hv to say about it, if u are too busy right now we understand, nd dear Frosbel do well to always visit this thread.

what exactly was his response? Could you please tell in your own words.

Well, still a propos who is Jesus . . .

Revelation 19

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

ijawkid:

Christ has a God and Father......and he is the ""beginning of"" Gods creation.......

Evidence borku well well.......

So find another exegesis to hebrews 7'....

Because Jesus has a Father.....he was caused by his Father......

mtcheew, i thought u had something good to say. U are simply reharsing ur old tale.

ijawkid:

Christ has a God and Father. .....and he is the ""beginning of"" Gods creation.......

Evidence borku well well.......

So find another exegesis to hebrews 7'....

Because Jesus has a Father.....he was caused by his Father......

No other truth is needed. Christ has a God should be enough for anyone who truelly seek to know Him.

Jesus is not Yahweh, He has Yahweh as His Father!

Ma broda, u get understanding....this is plain scripture!

Pastor Kun:

This is were you are wrong. There is evidence all over the scriptures that christ pre exited as a being before his incarnation on earth via mary. If you continue along this path you would be setting yourself up for ridicule by these trinitarians who have already been beaten black and blue based on their false doctrine. What you are doing here is simply giving them ammunition to use against you. I would suggest you go back to scriptures and take a sound biblical position on this like you have done in other areas.

I agree with you here! Frosbel new doctrine is a strange
One that contradicts several scriptures

Ubenedictus: it is hidden from the "high and mighty" but revealed to little children.

Thats true, but who are these little Children reffared to here?

Those who obey his commands
Those who do not add to His word
Those who do not contradict His teaching
Those who do not indulge in idolatry etc etc... Dont be decieved bro....

ijawkid:

Because in the context of isaiah Jesus being the everlasting Father is signified by him(Jesus) being the last adam.........

Now how can you tell me Yahweh who created everything,including Jesus would not be everlasting??

But it is clear to you that Jesus has a Father.....

The truth is when you read a scripture allow other
numerous scriptures explain it....

If not you'll run into conclusions that will contradict every
single doctrine you hold on to.....

Please I want u to read 1 corinthians 15:24-28 and tell
me what you understand from it........

God bless you ma broda for not waving away !!!

plappville:

I agree with you here! Frosbel new doctrine is a strange
One that contradicts several scriptures

No it is not.

Why did Christ have to pre-exist ?

What is strange is that you believe in a sort of incarnation of a spirit into a human body , rather than the simple and factual conception and birthing of Jesus by the Power of the Holy Spirit as a FULL MAN , the Only directly Begotten SON of the Living GOD.

He did not need to pre-exist , this is the confusion of the millennium.

frosbel:

No it is not.

Why did Christ have to pre-exist ?

What is strange is that you believe in a sort of incarnation of a spirit into a human body , rather than the simple and factual conception and birthing of Jesus by the Power of the Holy Spirit as a FULL MAN ,the Only directly Begotten SON of the Living GOD.

He did not need to pre-exist , this is the confusion of the millennium.

Adam was also directly begotten of God.

frosbel:

No it is not.

Why did Christ have to pre-exist ?

What is strange is that you believe in a sort of incarnation of a spirit into a human body , rather than the simple and factual conception and birthing of Jesus by the Power of the Holy Spirit as a FULL MAN , the Only directly Begotten SON of the Living GOD.

He did not need to pre-exist , this is the confusion of the millennium.

@frosbel.

Can you please define reincarnation from a dictionary for all to see, and then do us the favour of applying it on how Jesus coming down from heaven without dying fits into your reincarnation theory?

Unless you dont know the meaning of the word reincarnation that you are shouting.

We are waiting.

italo: @ Frosbel and Ijawkid,

Do you say it was not Jesus that was being referred to as Alpha and Omega in this passage?

John and the Angel

6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”

7 “LOOK, I AM COMING SOON! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.”

8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things.
And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets
and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11 Let
the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

12 “LOOK, I AM COMING SOON! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go
through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, JESUS, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

18  I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, "God" will add to that person the plagues described in
this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this
scroll of prophecy, "God" will take away from that
person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City,

which are described in this scroll.

20 He who testifies to these things says, “YES, I AM COMING SOON.”


Amen. COME, LORD JESUS.

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people.
Amen.

After reading that passage and paying attention to the capitalized words, do you insist that it wasn't Jesus that
was the Alpha and Omega. It wasn't Jesus that was "COMING SOON?"

Have you ever asked why did Jesus not say He will be the one that will "ADD or TAKE AWAY" from anyone who "add or take away" from the Scroll? Why did He has to reffers this to Yahweh?

frosbel:

No it is not.

Why did Christ have to pre-exist ?

What is strange is that you believe in a sort of incarnation of a spirit into a human body , rather than the simple and factual conception and birthing of Jesus by the Power of the Holy Spirit as a FULL MAN , the Only directly Begotten SON of the Living GOD.


He did not need to pre-exist , this is the confusion of the millennium.

Bros, then you have to refute multiple scriptures to validate your new doctrine!

Came here to see how frosbel claim to have answered 2 verses in another thread(trinitarian and bitarians). Well not impressed because the verses were not here. Going to another thread to see if he address them there