@frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) - Religion (3) - Nairaland
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| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 6:35pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
ijawkid: Incase you didn't notice, the first question only needs a YES or NO. You can then go on to explain afterwards. From your answer, I cannot know exactly where you stand on the question. E.g was everything made for Jesus? You didn't answer the second question, I wonder why. Let me ask again. Were all things created in Jesus, through Jesus and for Jesus: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities. Who is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end? |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 6:36pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
@ Frosbel I am still expecting your answers to the questions. |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by ijawkid(m): 6:41pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
italo: Yahweh is the ALPHA and OMEGA....... U doubt?? and all things were created through Jesus.... Yahweh ofcus is not under the (all) things ...... I'll reiterate::::: Yahweh created Jesus while Jesus was used as Yahwehs agent to create all other things... Got it?? 2 Likes |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 6:53pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
ijawkid: Yahweh CREATED Christ  So Yahweh could not just create all thing unless Yahweh had to first create Jesus Christ. You will need this scriptures to explain Jesus being created......"Isaiah 9:6-"For unto us a child is born,...and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father...." Mighty God created Everlasting created |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by PastorKun(m): 6:54pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Goshen360: I am really looking forward to how you would puncture all of frosbel's statements without twisting scripture adding to or removing from it. Also you keep on going about non trinitarians denying the deity of christ. I am yet to read any statement denying Jesus divinity. If I may ask, what is your understanding of the term 'deity'? |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by ijawkid(m): 7:04pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Goshen360: When Jesus in that isaiah is called everlasting Father you should know what it means........ It sure means Jesus is the last adam.....what adam should have become if he hadn't disobeyed Yahweh is what Jesus is now..... Adam should have been our everlasting Father,but since he couldn't,Jesus who is the greater adam is now..... Besides you should also know Jesus has a Father who is God over Him and over all........ So don't misunderstand the expression ""everlasting Father"" mentioned there in isaiah to be that Jesus never had a beginning... Yahweh created Jesus...Jesus is the 1st of Yahwehs creative works and then Jesus became the agent through which Yahweh created all other things.... That's why we are brothers with Jesus....we all originated from 1 source... And who is that?? YAHWEH the Father and God of all.... 2 Likes |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 7:09pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
frosbel: Good you asked "Does this not contradict God's immortality?". Now you sounds like some who wants to learn and increase in knowledge. Since He was the Word that BECAME human and NOT the Father nor the Holy Spirit. He had to died to redeem mankind to the Father. He died NOT by natural or normal death but by sacrificial death in which He laid down his life by himself. Listen to his words, New International Version (©1984) No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." John 10:18 New International Version (©1984) For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. John 5:26 So you see, He laid down the life by himself. The Father didn't die neither did the Holy Spirit because neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit BECAME flesh like Jesus BECAME flesh (human) according to John 1:14. The case of God (specifically the father) dying is no where to be found in scriptures. If it was the Father who BECAME flesh, then He would have also laid down his life and take it up again. New International Version (©1984) Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." John 2:19 |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 7:21pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Pastor Kun: Can't you read all over the thread Frosbel saying Jesus isn't God Pastor Kun: You know am biblically to twist scriptures. Show me the scriptures I have twisted and you can as well help us as the world is reading to better understand any scripture I used to refute Frosbel if am actually twisting scriptures. Pastor Kun: Deity You can think of Eternal being. You can think and talk of one who all-knowing (omniscient). You can talk one the being who is all-powerful (omnipotent). Talk of the one who is has eternal existence. Talk of the one who is the is the Creator. Talk of the one who is Worshiped as the Living God, not as crafted image. Do you want more |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 7:28pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
ijawkid: Do you mind to show us WHERE and HOW Jesus was created. I/We will love to read such scriptures please. |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by ijawkid(m): 7:28pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Goshen360: Goshen see the definitions of deity... de·i·ty [dee-i-tee] -n., 1. a god or goddess. 2. divine character or nature, esp. that of the Supreme Being; divinity. 3. the estate or rank of a god: The king attained deity after his death. 4. a person or thing revered as a god or goddess: a society in which money is the only deity. 5. God; Supreme Being. In terms of omiscience and omnipotence hope you know Jesus isn't either of them..... I know you know..... Only The Father is all powerful and all-knowing..... You agree?? 1 Like |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by truthislight: 7:28pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
frosbel: you seem to be biting more than what you can chew at a time. Am not oblige to add to the situation you have put yourself already. It should rather be you against Jesus words that said he "came from heaven and will go back to where he was befor" John 6:62 face this debate, Note: this debate is not about three Gods or trinity but to proof if Jesus had existed as a real spirit person befor coming to earth. As it is looking already some are desperately trying to mixe things up and calling on trinity. We should focus on the theme of the thread. @Enigma. So far, you are the only person that is honestly addressing the thread" i will not be a party to a dishonest approach of turning this thread to a trinity issue. We should stick to the thread theme, it is important to exterblish this fact "if Jesus Pre-existed or not" and not muddled things up. |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 7:29pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
ijawkid: So is it Yahweh that is being talked about in Rev 22:12,13: 12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." If it is not Yahweh, then who is it? |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 7:31pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
ijawkid: Get Bible dictionary to define deity please. Of course we know there are false deity and True deity - The living God. |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by ijawkid(m): 7:31pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Goshen360: He is the 1st born of all creation and also an image of God..... All those are image of Yahweh are creations of Yahweh.... English Standard Version (©2001) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. What do you understand from the word ""1st born of all creation"" Lets analyze that word......1st born..... Who is a 1st born?? Remember Jesus is the 1st born in so many ways.... 1 Like |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 7:32pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
ijawkid: What about the part of the verse that refers to Jesus as "Mighty God?" |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 7:33pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
truthislight: Thank you. On the bolded. They are trying to turn the table....We are actually debate the deity of Christ here, not Trinity. I also intend to debate the deity of the Holy Spirit as well. He is also a being, NOT a wind or a force. |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by ijawkid(m): 7:33pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Goshen360: Deity doesn't just mean the living God alone...... The angels are deity's..... Don't restrict the word deity ...... That word even from the bible does not have only one meaning... Besides its an english word..... |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by PastorKun(m): 7:36pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Goshen360: Just as I thought the problem is with your definition of the word deity. You define deity as the supreme God where as in reality deity is simply a supernatural being. Even angels are referred To as divine beings. The deity of christ is not in doubt but he is not God the father aka the almighty God. He is God's son as the bible makes it crystal clear. By being the son of GOD also makes him a God but then he is clearly not in the same league as his father who he derives his power from and remains subject to. 2 Likes |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by ijawkid(m): 7:42pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
italo: The hebrew word translated mighty God is "" EL Gibbohr"" Meaning Jesus is a powerful spirit being who has being entrusted with rulership by The Father...... Besides Jesus wasn't reffered to in isaiah 9:6 as ""EL. Shaddai"" which means ""almighty God"" That title is reserved for Yahweh alone who is the God and Father over all.... 2 Likes |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by truthislight: 7:53pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
italo: my friend stop occupying space. This issue have been address befor in this forum. Go and read other threads. |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 7:57pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Pastor Kun: You guys are going round in circle......Is Jesus called Mighty God or NOT? If Yes, then who is Frosbel to say he is NOT God. Of course Jesus said, The Father is greater than him and the head of Christ is God. This doesn't take away the fact of him being God. That Father is greater than him as it relates to office and works. When people like Frosbel make statement such as Jesus is NOT God and when people like Ijawkid says he was created, then we need to read HOW AND WHEN he was created. |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by ijawkid(m): 8:04pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Goshen360: He is the 1st born of all creation...... He is also the image of the invincible Yahweh..... Those terms apply to one who had a beginning.... Ok let us analyze christ being the "lst born"". Of all creation.... Explain what 1st born means....except 1st born has another explanation.... |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 8:07pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
@ Ijawkid, So is it Yahweh that is being talked about in Rev 22:12,13: 12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." If it is not Yahweh, then who is it? |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 8:13pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
GOSHEN, Jesus is the SON OF GOD not YAHWEH , stop running blind , it's becoming embarrassing. Let us see how you and your Trinitarian counterparts will murder the English Language to twist these scriptures below Matthew 4:10: "Jesus said to him,'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."'" John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." 1Corinthians 8:5-6: "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords" ), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live." 1Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" James 2:19: "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." Mark 13:32:"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." John 5:19: "Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does." John 14:28: "You heard me say,'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." John 17:20-23: "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity [/b]to let the world know that[b] you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." John 20:17: "Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" Acts 7:55-56: "But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." Colossians 1:15: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." 1Corinthians 15:24-28 : "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." The Debate is over for me, not worth my time arguing with people who want to throw away 90% of the bible so as to support their PAGAN doctrine. Carry on without me. 1 Like |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 8:20pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
indeed
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| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 8:24pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
ijawkid: You LIE! Where did you get that definition of El Gibbohr from? Did you just formulate it or did you get it from another person who just formulated it? Give us your source or proof. El Gibbohr means Mighty God, as all the Bible translators agree. Simple as that. |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Nobody: 8:31pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Trinity is a FARCE !!
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| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 8:34pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
italo: @ Ijawkid, |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by ijawkid(m): 8:37pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
italo: How I go take formulate that kin thing na?? Don't u do research?? Go and read a hebrew and greek bible.... Besides is ""mighty "" and ""almighty "" one and the same thing?? My bro you need to be doing more of bible research and stop bowing down to mary....(Just being sarcastic)....:-)... Lol.... 1 Like |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 9:00pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
ijawkid: I have done Bible reseach and all the Bible translators translate El Gibbohr as "Mighty God." Even non-bible Hebrew to English translations show that El Gibbohr means Mighty God. So where is your source? And are you now saying Jesus is the "Mighty God" and not "Almighty God?" |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by ijawkid(m): 9:02pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
italo: All I am saying is that Jesus isn't ALMIGHTY God..... Is that hard to understand?? There is only 1 almighty GOD and it. Is .not Jesu§..... U doubt?? I guess u know who the almighty GOD is... Don't act like you don't know..... 1 Like |
| Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by italo: 9:02pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Why have you been avoiding this my question. This is about the fourth time I am asking you this question from the Bible. italo: @ Ijawkid, |
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