Jesus is God, simply put.
Jesus made it clear that no man has seen the Father (John 6vs 46) but clearly men saw God in the Old Testament.
• And they SAW the God of Israel and ate in his presence (Exodus 24vs 1-12) who did Moses and the elders see?
• Whose form did Moses see? (Numbers 12vs 6 -
• God says I ALONE stretched out the heavens, who spread the earth by MYSELF (Isaiah 44 vs. 24), yet we believe Christ created all things (Colossian 1 vs. 6)
• God loved Jesus BEFORE the world began (John 17 vs. 24)
• Jesus had glory with God BEFORE the world began John 17 vs. 5)
• Jesus said” I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (pre-existence)
• Jesus said “that ALL may honor me JUST AS they honor the Father”. How do we honor the Father? How can a mere creature claim equal honor with the Father? (John 5vs 23)
• Who did Abraham speak with before Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed?
• Isaiah saw the messiah’s glory (John 12 vs. 41) yet John quotes the vision in Isaiah 6 where Isaiah saw the glory of the God of Israel.


Who was the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament? He spoke to Moses from WITHIN the burning bush (Exodus 3 vs. 2), yet Exodus 3 vs. 4 says it was God that was WITHIN the burning bush. He spoke as God in Judges 3 vs. 1 – 12. When he spoke to Hagar she called him “the God that sees me”. (Gen 16 vs. 7-16). Yet he is distinct from God (pleads with God on behalf of Jerusalem. (Zechariah chap 1 vs. 12)

People went through tortuous pain, persecution and death from the ancient world because they believed Jesus to be God (read eusebius church history). We insult their martyrdom and memory when we sit behind a username and deem ourselves more knowledgeable then those who lived and DIED for such beliefs. Ireneus book: against heresies, Justin martyr apology etc. these documents are there for us to see even before the RCC emerged as a dominant world power. Let us at least TRY to understand the HYPOSTATIC UNION before we go on a posting spree. We who have suffered so little believe we know more than those who lived in the times of the apostles. I do not support a lot of the RCC believes but we shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

aslan333: Jesus is God, simply put.
Jesus made it clear that no man has seen the Father (John 6vs 46) but clearly men saw God in the Old Testament.
• And they SAW the God of Israel and ate in his presence (Exodus 24vs 1-12) who did Moses and the elders see?
• Whose form did Moses see? (Numbers 12vs 6 -
• God says I ALONE stretched out the heavens, who spread the earth by MYSELF (Isaiah 44 vs. 24), yet we believe Christ created all things (Colossian 1 vs. 6)
• God loved Jesus BEFORE the world began (John 17 vs. 24)
• Jesus had glory with God BEFORE the world began John 17 vs. 5)
• Jesus said” I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (pre-existence)
• Jesus said “that ALL may honor me JUST AS they honor the Father”. How do we honor the Father? How can a mere creature claim equal honor with the Father? (John 5vs 23)
• Who did Abraham speak with before Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed?
• Isaiah saw the messiah’s glory (John 12 vs. 41) yet John quotes the vision in Isaiah 6 where Isaiah saw the glory of the God of Israel.


Who was the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament? He spoke to Moses from WITHIN the burning bush (Exodus 3 vs. 2), yet Exodus 3 vs. 4 says it was God that was WITHIN the burning bush. He spoke as God in Judges 3 vs. 1 – 12. When he spoke to Hagar she called him “the God that sees me”. (Gen 16 vs. 7-16). Yet he is distinct from God (pleads with God on behalf of Jerusalem. (Zechariah chap 1 vs. 12)

People went through tortuous pain, persecution and death from the ancient world because they believed Jesus to be God (read eusebius church history). We insult their martyrdom and memory when we sit behind a username and deem ourselves more knowledgeable then those who lived and DIED for such beliefs. Ireneus book: against heresies, Justin martyr apology etc. these documents are there for us to see even before the RCC emerged as a dominant world power. Let us at least TRY to understand the HYPOSTATIC UNION before we go on a posting spree. We who have suffered so little believe we know more than those who lived in the times of the apostles. I do not support a lot of the RCC believes but we shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

Ok? he said so categorically? i mean why would he be coy about such a critical spot of revelation? just asking

ijawkid:
it is now time for you to open the scriptures to show us that Jesus never had a beginning...
Oya start opening...
Dont just rant...open the scriptures.....

jn1:1, heb7:3. He was there before the begining. What is before d begining has no begining of day nor end.

lagerwhenindoubt:

Ok? he said so categorically? i mean why would he be coy about such a critical spot of revelation? just asking

Yes, He did!

Among others, Revelation 1

Verse 8

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Verses 17-20

17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; [size=14pt]and I was dead[/size], and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. 19“Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things. 20“As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

ijawkid:

which children??

Mary worshippers abi??

from henceforth all generations shall call me bless. If d scriptures donot fault me u cant. U really want to divert d topic abi? Why nt open ur own mary thread abt mary?

Boomark:

I asked you whose image He was since you said He has been existing along side the Father from eternity.

The time i was born is the my father begot me and that the time i bore his image.

Like you said up there that Jesus was born b4 time, that makes Him the beginning according to scriptures.
Am happy you are now getting the gist.

the Word of God has alway been d exact representation of his father being. The was never a 'time' he was not because he is before all times and seasons and he created both time and season. He existed from all eternal, alway as d exact representation of d fadas being.
The fada has alway been a fada, the son is alway d son of d fada. So my friend what do u nt understand?

ijawkid:

which children??

Mary worshippers abi??

from henceforth all generations shall call me bless. If d scriptures donot fault me u cant. U really want to divert d topic abi? Why nt open ur own mary thread abt mary?

Ubenedictus: jn1:1, heb7:3. He was there before the begining. What is before d begining has no begining of day nor end.

hey....

That means melchizedek has no beginning too....abi??

That means melchizedek was God the 4th.....agreed??

You better start finding the right exegesis to hebrews because we all know Jesus has a Father and God...

Incase u've forgotten start remembering...

aslan333: Jesus is God, simply put.
Jesus made it clear that no man has seen the Father (John 6vs 46) but clearly men saw God in the Old Testament.
• And they SAW the God of Israel and ate in his presence (Exodus 24vs 1-12) who did Moses and the elders see?
• Whose form did Moses see? (Numbers 12vs 6 -
• God says I ALONE stretched out the heavens, who spread the earth by MYSELF (Isaiah 44 vs. 24), yet we believe Christ created all things (Colossian 1 vs. 6)
• God loved Jesus BEFORE the world began (John 17 vs. 24)
• Jesus had glory with God BEFORE the world began John 17 vs. 5)
• Jesus said” I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (pre-existence)
• Jesus said “that ALL may honor me JUST AS they honor the Father”. How do we honor the Father? How can a mere creature claim equal honor with the Father? (John 5vs 23)
• Who did Abraham speak with before Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed?
• Isaiah saw the messiah’s glory (John 12 vs. 41) yet John quotes the vision in Isaiah 6 where Isaiah saw the glory of the God of Israel.


Who was the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament? He spoke to Moses from WITHIN the burning bush (Exodus 3 vs. 2), yet Exodus 3 vs. 4 says it was God that was WITHIN the burning bush. He spoke as God in Judges 3 vs. 1 – 12. When he spoke to Hagar she called him “the God that sees me”. (Gen 16 vs. 7-16). Yet he is distinct from God (pleads with God on behalf of Jerusalem. (Zechariah chap 1 vs. 12)

People went through tortuous pain, persecution and death from the ancient world because they believed Jesus to be God (read eusebius church history). We insult their martyrdom and memory when we sit behind a username and deem ourselves more knowledgeable then those who lived and DIED for such beliefs. Ireneus book: against heresies, Justin martyr apology etc. these documents are there for us to see even before the RCC emerged as a dominant world power. Let us at least TRY to understand the HYPOSTATIC UNION before we go on a posting spree. We who have suffered so little believe we know more than those who lived in the times of the apostles. I do not support a lot of the RCC believes but we shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

thanks, im suprise someone is criticising a position he doesnt know anything about. Atleast make research before you critisize.

lagerwhenindoubt:

Ok? he said so categorically? i mean why would he be coy about such a critical spot of revelation? just asking

i cant find anything "coy" there, u just reject an important part of revelation partly becus u dont understand it and partly becos u hate d rcc.

ijawkid:

hey....

That means melchizedek has no beginning too....abi??

That means melchizedek was God the 4th.....agreed??

at times i really ask myself y i discuss these issues with you, becos u just close ur eyes to scripture and find a way to claim u are right and d other is wrong. Weldone.
Dat chapter of heb in case u didnt notice was to protray melchisedek as a "type", "figure" and "prefigurement" of christ. By explaning melchisedek he showed what d only son of d fada is. And one of d words he used was "without begining of days" u cant go and argue with d bible for all i care.

Ubenedictus: at times i really ask myself y i discuss these issues with you, becos u just close ur eyes to scripture and find a way to claim u are right and d other is wrong. Weldone.
Dat chapter of heb in case u didnt notice was to protray melchisedek as a "type", "figure" and "prefigurement" of christ. By explaning melchisedek he showed what d only son of d fada is. And one of d words he used was "without begining of days" u cant go and argue with d bible for all i care.

nope....infact in hebrews 5 Jesus was to be a high priest in the manner of melchizedek....

In either way u look at it from your blind trinitarian point of view melchizedek too had no beginning....

So i want u to prove melchizedek had a beginning,then we can talk...

Hebrews plainly says melchizedek had no beginning and end....

Ubenedictus: i cant find anything "coy" there, u just reject an important part of revelation partly because u don't understand it and partly becos u hate d rcc.

lol how can I reject what I don't fully understand and why would I hate the RCC.. unless they are responsible for the dent on the side of my SUV

lagerwhenindoubt:

lol how can I reject what I don't fully understand and why would I hate the RCC.. unless they are responsible for the dent on the side of my SUV

Well you didn't accept the Trinity mumbo jumbo in the first place !

frosbel:

Well you didn't accept the Trinity mumbo jumbo in the first place !

Cos off-the-bat it seems likely that Pagan influence was heavily involved (more than not) but not to discount what seems a pivotal concept of the Holy Bible.. I keep an open-mind, perhaps this is no adoption of earlier concepts as is similar with religion.. who knows

http://mikeblume.com/pagantr.htm
http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/doctrine/The%20Origin%20of%20the%20Trinity.htm

MR FROSBEL why did u run from Mr Anony on dis same thred when he asked who Jesus is to u, but u came back to argue trinity

la cosa nostra: MR FROSBEL why did u run from Mr Anony on dis same thred when he asked who Jesus is to u, but u came back to argue trinity

Run ??


I told him earlier that Jesus Christ is the SON of the Living GOD, the MESSIAH and the CHRIST. I think this is sufficient.

ijawkid:

nope....infact in hebrews 5 Jesus was to be a high priest in the manner of melchizedek....

In either way u look at it from your blind trinitarian point of view melchizedek too had no beginning....

So i want u to prove melchizedek had a beginning,then we can talk...

Hebrews plainly says melchizedek had no beginning and end....

and it also says christ has no begining and end. I have noting to prove. U are d person wu shuld b telling me y u tink christ has a bging wen my bible says he doesnt.

lagerwhenindoubt:

lol how can I reject what I don't fully understand

so far u have shown that u dont understand

and why would I hate the RCC.. unless they are responsible for the dent on the side of my SUV

hahahaha, so funny.

la cosa nostra: MR FROSBEL why did u run from Mr Anony on dis same thred when he asked who Jesus is to u, but u came back to argue trinity

that is frosbel for u, wen he was asked abt d pre existence of Jesus he dodged and started shouting "trinity heresy!".

Ubenedictus: and it also says christ has no begining and end. I have noting to prove. U are d person wu shuld b telling me y u tink christ has a bging wen my bible says he doesnt.

Christ Himself IS eternal life; he existed eternally with the Father.

To know when Jesus Christ "began" to exist is to know when God The father "began" to exist.

Oh, and it is also to know when The Holy Spirit "began" to exist.


1 John 1:2

The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

Oh well, Why not?

1 John 5:20

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Enigma:

Christ Himself IS eternal life; he existed eternally with the Father.

To know when Jesus Christ "began" to exist is to know when God The father "began" to exist.

Oh, and it is also to know when The Holy Spirit "began" to exist.


1 John 1:2

amen

is christ the enternal word which is the same as God or a creation of the word this was d question from MR ANONY to u MR FROSBEL seems Anony has been busy 4 sometime, i would realy love to see d both of u finish this ASAP

la cosa nostra: is christ the enternal word which is the same as God or a creation of the word this was d question from MR ANONY to u MR FROSBEL seems Anony has been busy 4 sometime, i would realy love to see d both of u finish this ASAP

Jesus Christ did not pre-exist as a being, he was begotten by God who overshadowed Mary with his Spirit.

frosbel:

Jesus Christ did not pre-exist as a being, he was begotten by God who overshadowed Mary with his Spirit.

through Jesus you hope to get eternal life, and you clam Jesus had a begining.

Does it mean,Jesus is giving you what he doesn't have ? Or your self and Jesus are mate now, since u both haven't tasted eternal life and both have a begining.

^^ Incidentally, that post is a test of the courage and honesty of some of his supporters.

At least some of the Jehovah Witnesses supporting him have disagreed with him on this point.

However, let us see if his other supporters who profess Christianity (unlike the JWs) will agree with him or be honest and courageous enough to disagree openly.

@ Enigma......Great job you have been doing. I don tire for Frosbel jare. I gave him a "logical" test on the other thread and he can't even prove himself. .....am out of here, got other things to do joor.

^^^ He don run away from questions on about four different threads now. Shey because we jus do like say we no see!

Enigma: ^^^ He don run away from questions on about four different threads now. Shey because we jus do like say we no see!

Na sooo. I guess he learnt that trick from "some" CE members wey I no fit mention their "names". As you said on that thread, "those" CE members had since run away.....rightly they might show up in December.

Ubenedictus: and it also says christ has no begining and end. I have noting to prove. U are d person wu shuld b telling me y u tink christ has a bging wen my bible says he doesnt.

Christ has a God and Father......and he is the ""beginning of"" Gods creation.......

Evidence borku well well.......

So find another exegesis to hebrews 7'....

Because Jesus has a Father.....he was caused by his Father......

Enigma: Oh well, Why not?

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of
God has come and has given us
understanding, so that we may
know him who is true. And we
are in him who is true--even in
his Son Jesus Christ. He is the
true God and eternal life.

Understanding palava! Don't see from your quote...The one who is true. Or do you need to be reminded of what Christ said about Him. That is why Christ came...to make us know Him.