andromida: @ ihedinobi on whose say so is trinity the foundation of christianity? and yes this thread is not particularly focused on trinity but trinity as I see it is a major aspect of it an please shorter epistles please

Ihedinobi:

Point of correction, sis, this thread is not particularly focused on the Trinity. However, you have made a point I want to address. There is a heterodoxy that is fine. For instance, I don't care to go to church on Sundays, I meet with fellow believers and powwow maybe on Wednesdays or Fridays. (I don't mean me o, I do the Sunday routine more often than not.) There is no antiChristianity in that. It may be that the nature of my job does not allow meeting on Sundays or that the political atmosphere makes Sunday meetings impossible. Whatever it may be, the day of the week on which I break bread with my family is a matter of personal, say, convenience.

But there is another heterodoxy that is heresy and antiChrist. That which attacks the nature or foundation of Christianity itself is what I mean. Strictly speaking then, if the Trinity is the foundation of Christianity, then it is impossible either to accept it and be an unbeliever or reject it and be a believer. Neither of this means that the believer or unbeliever necessarily understands it to be either.

This is Christianity: Jesus is Lord, by which we mean, Jesus is God. That immediately lands anyone who believes it in the Trinity whether they understand it or not. If anyone rejects it, they reject the Trinity.

Why bother pursuing a discussion such as this then? It is because our growth in the Faith is growth in mental or intellectual appreciation of God, Who and What He is. A lot of us who do not fully appreciate Him intellectually are rendered very ineffective in many areas of our lives for God. So those who do, must help prod these ones on to greater understanding. Which is what they do engaging those who attack the doctrine. Also, it is for those who attack the doctrine because they may actually be true Christians who are reaching for greater understanding. How they react to what they are told proves whether or not there is really Christ in them. Increasing hardness of heart and stubborn refusal to learn is evidenced by deteriorating arguments. At a certain point, it becomes a "believe or die" situation and if the person is utterly under the influence of the spirit of antichrist, they start to break Scriptures. At that point, no further argument is useful to him. But since this is a public domain, further argument can serve to warn others of what happens when they claim Christianity and reject the Lordship or Godhood of its Christ.

Thus, it is not a "to your tents, O Israel" matter.

Edited

Enigma:

To keep it simple: if Jesus IS God and The Father Is God (leaving out The Holy Spirit for now), would you not say that is an issue at the heart {"foundation"} of Christianity?

truthislight:

the word God is a title my friend.

andromida: @ ihedinobi on whose say so is trinity the foundation of christianity? and yes this thread is not particularly focused on trinity but trinity as I see it is a major aspect of it an please shorter epistles please

Ihedinobi: This is Christianity: Jesus is Lord, by which we mean, Jesus is God. That immediately lands anyone who believes it in the Trinity whether they understand it or not. If anyone rejects it, they reject the Trinity.

Enigma:

To keep it simple: if Jesus IS God and The Father Is God (leaving out The Holy Spirit for now), would you not say that is an issue at the heart {"foundation"} of Christianity?

Enigma:

To keep it simple: if Jesus IS God and The Father Is God (leaving out The Holy Spirit for now), would you not say that is an issue at the heart {"foundation"} of Christianity?

andromida:

The issue at the heart of Christianity is John 3:16. But as ihedinobi said this discourse is for intellectual appreciation of God.

italo: Trinitarians say that The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are ONE God.

So-called Unitarians say that The Son is "a God" (The Mighty God); and The Father is another God (The Almighty God). That makes 2 Gods. Then they turn around and say The Lord is ONE. *Hello, but you say there are 2 Gods - The Mighty God and The Almighty God*.

On seeing their inconsistency, they shamelessly accuse Trinitarians of believing in 3 Gods - even though Trinitarians say There are three persons in ONE GOD. They do this just to throw up confusion.

Ihedinobi:
But there is another heterodoxy that is heresy and antiChrist. That which attacks the nature or foundation of Christianity itself is what I mean. Strictly speaking then, if the Trinity is the foundation of Christianity, then it is impossible either to accept it and be an unbeliever or reject it and be a believer. Neither of this means that the believer or unbeliever necessarily understands it to be either.
Edited

Ihedinobi:

This is Christianity: Jesus is Lord, by which we mean, Jesus is God. That immediately lands anyone who believes it in the Trinity whether they understand it or not. If anyone rejects it, they reject the Trinity.

Edited

frosbel: Angels are called gods, judges were called gods and so on and so forth.

These deceivers know quite well what we mean , they know we are referring to YAHWEH. i.e. Almighty GOD. , Of Him there is only ONE.

Unitarians say Almighty GOD is ONE , indivisible, a personality with no beginning and no end , and who wants to be identified as such.

The Trinitarians, deny God his personality and attribute to him 3 different personalities as if he has some kind of multi-personality disorder.

As arrogant as the false teachers are , they would never for one day want anyone to call them ONE person with 3 different personalities, they stick to ONE as in their person.

But hey, if we are made in God's image why are we not 3 persons in ONE ? Why are we just ONE in Person.

This pagan and demonic doctrine even insists that you MUST believe in IT to be saved in total contradiction to the bible which says we should believe in the messiah-ship of Christ for salvation , and not some made up rubbish referring to him as Almighty GOD.

Trust me, these people are deceived and also deceiving others.

"while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived" - 2 Timothy 3:13



Their standard is not the WORD of GOD but the paganic philosophies of the so called ' church fathers ' to which by I say church fathers my foot.

Jesus is our example and he said :

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

His word is good enough for me.

Ihedinobi: @Enigma

Bro, I emailed you. Seen it yet?

andromida:

Actually my concern is not trinity or the oneness of God. All Christians know that God is one. My concern is the faith of others while you argue. Your faith is grounded what about others.?

italo: Trinitarians say that The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are ONE God.

So-called Unitarians say that The Son is "a God" (The Mighty God); and The Father is another God (The Almighty God). That makes 2 Gods. Then they turn around and say The Lord is ONE. *Hello, but you say there are 2 Gods - The Mighty God and The Almighty God*.

On seeing their inconsistency, they shamelessly accuse Trinitarians of believing in 3 Gods - even though Trinitarians say There are three persons in ONE GOD. They do this just to throw up confusion.

ijawkid:


Let me expose your childishness once more.....

In effect you are saying apostle paul and the writer of deuteronomy was a polytheist....

...

frosbel:

I suggest that to support our position, we should qualify GOD as Almighty GOD , Yahweh or Jehovah, otherwise these chaps will keep playing with words while making no valid point.

ijawkid:


Let me expose your childishness once more.....

In effect you are saying apostle paul and the writer of deuteronomy was a polytheist....

Let's read 1 corinthians 8:5,6

English Standard Version (ESV)
5 For although there may be so-called gods in
heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many
[“gods]” and many[] [“lords”]— 6 yet for us there is
{one God}, the Father, from whom are all things
and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus
Christ, through whom are all things and through
whom we exist.


From that verse it appears there are many Gods both in heaven and on earth..uncounctables of Gods.....

But paul clearly told his fellow Jews who weren't pagans like trinitarians that ""but to Us"" there is but one God,the Father.....

Paul associates oneness of God to the Father alone ,not to some other 2 persons who trinitarians claim are part of a triune manifold......


I don't know what can be wrong with y'all.....

God is 1 and he is 1 Yahweh.....

Let me quote verse 5 again....

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For though there be those [called gods],
whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be
gods many, and lords many,)


Jesus is called God.....

Angels are called Gods....

Italo was pronounced and called God by Yahweh himself.....

But to ""US"" there is but one God,The Father....

That verse didn't say but to ""us"" there is but 1 God comprising of the Father,son,and holy ghost......(Trinity delusion)

..........

If you can't understand 1 corinthians 8:5,6 then you are finished so also your entourage....

italo: Firstly, I am done with this argument since you have already agreed that Jesus is God.

The only other thing I will do is to play the music for you to do your circular dance and logical acrobatics for our entertainment.

What is the difference between "God" (as it is used in the Bible), "god" (as it is used in the Bible) and "A God" (which I have never seen in the Bible, you formulated that).

And which of the three is Jesus Christ. God, god or "A God?"

Where did the Bible ever refer to Angels as "Gods" (with a capital 'G')?

italo: Firstly, I am done with this argument since you have already agreed that Jesus is God.

The only other thing I will do is to play the music for you to do your circular dance and logical acrobatics for our entertainment.

What is the difference between "God" (as it is used in the Bible), "god" (as it is used in the Bible) and "A God" (which I have never seen in the Bible, you formulated that).

And which of the three is Jesus Christ. God, god or "A God?"

Where did the Bible ever refer to Angels as "Gods" (with a capital 'G')?

italo: Firstly, I am done with this argument since you have already agreed that Jesus is God.

The only other thing I will do is to play the music for you to do your circular dance and logical acrobatics for our entertainment.

What is the difference between "God" (as it is used in the Bible), "god" (as it is used in the Bible) and "A God" (which I have never seen in the Bible, you formulated that).

And which of the three is Jesus Christ. God, god or "A God?"

Where did the Bible ever refer to Angels as "Gods" (with a capital 'G')?

andromida:




whether i agree or disagree is not relevant.

Now this is Christianity: John 3:16

Also Matt 22:37-40 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’This is the first and great commandment.And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

As you rightly said this is for intellectual appreciation .

frosbel:


If you do not know these basics, no wonder you are deceived.

Goshen360: This thread, simply put is to address who Jesus is. Is he just an ordinary man or is he God or is he God that became man and hence makes him both God and man? Let me begin by calling witnesses to the court room.

Here are the witnesses in/from the scriptures:

The Father. By the Father, I meant God the Father. The Father himself calls Jesus who is the Son God and it witnessed from Hebrews 1:8,

New International Version (©1984)
But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.


Okay. The Father who is God calls the Son God right. This is the first witness. To do justice, the Son also calls the Father God. and says the Father is greater than him. Let's hear from the witness of the Son,

New International Version (©1984)
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" John 20:17.

Okay. The Father calls the Son God and the Son calls the Father God or "my God". Does that mean the son is NO God? Certain not! If we are fighting Trinity, let's be straight forward to fight Trinity and if we are attacking the deity of Christ as God, let simply do that. Now, in the face of these TWO witnesses (The Father himself and The Son), Can we say Jesus is God and the Father is also God?

@ Ijawkid, Frosbel and Truthislight,

Do you agree (or believe) that Jesus is God. By "Jesus is God", I meant Jesus NOT the Father but still God according to the scriptures. I will like each of you (Ijawkid, Frosbel and Truthislight) to answer same question personally on your separate response. Thank you.

ijawkid:

1 corinthians 8:5,6 confirms that there are many who are called Gods........

Jesus was called God.....

But to ""US"" there is but one GOD the Father whom Jesus worshipped.....

Hope we are on the same page??

Your colleagues here won't agree that Yahweh is greater than Jesus and that Yahweh is the God of Jesus.....

Abeg help me orient them....

Goshen360:

@ Ijawkid, Frosbel and Truthislight,

Do you agree (or believe) that Jesus is God. By "Jesus is God", I meant Jesus NOT the Father but still God according to the scriptures. I will like each of you (Ijawkid, Frosbel and Truthislight) to answer same question personally on your separate response. Thank you.