Ubenedictus: i totally understand u and i blive bro anony totally understands me. I have been on this forums for a short time but i have learnt wen people esp frosbel(no offence) becomes interested in throwing scriptures they do so that they may comfortably acuse d other of heresy and to make a scene for d onlookers. The other party is made to look like a fool wu doesnt know his onions, d moment you start throwing back ur own scripture d discussion breaks down and everybody goes his own way. The person wu made d most convicing case is thought to be stupid d person with the greatest number of followers win.
If u think i'm lying go through the past threads on nairaland, at present i'm trying to distance myself from such and simply stand as a spectator.

Ihedinobi:

I get you, bro. I also don't care to engage frosbel and his crew. However, this is not about winning/losing. It's totally about Truth. It matters nothing how many embrace Him, what matters is that He is unveiled.

And when He can be unveiled by reflecting a person's foolishness, we who carry Him should do so.

Ihedinobi:

I get you, bro. I also don't care to engage frosbel and his crew. However, this is not about winning/losing. It's totally about Truth. It matters nothing how many embrace Him, what matters is that He is unveiled.

And when He can be unveiled by reflecting a person's foolishness, we who carry Him should do so.

Ubenedictus: again i get ur point. To unveil a reality is useless unless there are people who arent blind who are capable of seeing and appreciating d reality. If u are unveiling a reality to one with closed minds it is like pouring water in the dark.

Ubenedictus: again i get ur point. To unveil a reality is useless unless there are people who arent blind who are capable of seeing and appreciating d reality. If u are unveiling a reality to one with closed minds it is like pouring water in the dark.

ijawkid:

When unveiling a reality with pagan myths I wonder what you hope to achieve.....

.....SMH!!!!

Ubenedictus: again i get ur point. To unveil a reality is useless unless there are people who arent blind who are capable of seeing and appreciating d reality. If u are unveiling a reality to one with closed minds it is like pouring water in the dark.

Ihedinobi:

Do you really? "What I tell you in the darkness, shout abroad when daybreak comes. What I whisper in your ear, shout from the housetops for all to hear." That's Jesus in Matthew 10:27. Your spirit may not be right, friend, and I'm not saying so for any reason other than mildly caution you. You engage in discussions like this to unveil Christ and you are to do so whether your message is accepted or not. Until it has been rejected, you must give it. When it has been, you may take it elsewhere.

I advise that you quit your worries of being made a fool or being rejected. Again, Mr Anony did right. He just didn't know it. I think that my twin is very wary of impropriety and stumbles, that's probably why he accepts rebuke readily especially about actions he's not very clear about. In the instance here, his reaction was perfect.

As for you, my friend, I exhort you to abandon debating for its own sake.

Edited.

Image123: others are also reading who may have honest doubts. The posts are for their sakes, and for a witness.

Mr_Anony:
It depends on how you define "alive"

I haven't got much time to go in depth into scripture so I'll assume that you are quite conversant with it and just go ahead and shoot.

...As I said, it depends on how you define "alive". compare how in Genesis, God told Adam that the day he ate the fruit he would die, also consider how Jesus refers to sinners as dead i.e. "let the dead bury the dead". Next, consider that the state of being in the lake of fire is called the second death.

So what does the bible mean when it talks about death?

I'll suggest to you that death means separation. Physical death being the separation of the body and soul while spiritual death being separation from God. The second death is simply eternal separation from God, thrown out of the city of God into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Another thing I will implore you to do is to prayerfully read Ezekiel chapter 26, 27, and 28. and equally read Revelations chapters 19, 20, and 21. These should help you put those verses in context.

Cheers

Mr_Anony:
Hmm ok, It seems to me that you are now deliberately trying to misunderstand my question but I'll give you the benefit of doubt one more time. . . . .

The issue we have before us is not the interpretation of the parable but the parable itself.

What is a parable? A parable is an analogous story used to explain a more complex phenomenon. It is usually a realistic story that the listener is conversant with and can easily relate to.

Jesus' parables are usually simple stories such as a sower sowing seed. This is a story that the Jews can easily relate to because they are familiar with it. The same applies for a son who leaves his father and squanders his money, a wedding feast e.t.c. All these are simple stories that the 1st century Jew can easily relate to because they are part of what he knows. Jesus then goes on to give a greater meaning to a very simple story by relating it to a much bigger picture i.e. God's kingdom.

Now this is the dilemma you face. You lot claim that the concept of conscious torment after death is alien to scripture and it doesn't even exist. The question now becomes: Why would Jesus use a story that does not exist i.e. a story that his audience cannot possibly even begin to relate to in order to explain a greater truth?

I still maintain that the Jews were very aware of the concept of conscious torment after death in the same way that they were very aware of the concept of a sower sowing seeds. It was a normal everyday understanding for them that evil people will suffer after death while the righteous will be comforted after death. . . . .and Jesus Christ obviously held the same.

In every argument, you can escape the truth if you pay a high enough price. For this one, the price would be to say that Christ didn't know what He was talking about. That's the steep price I'm afraid you will have to pay for you to properly deny torment of the sinner after physical death.
I truly hope that for your sakes, you are not comfortable paying this price.

Freksy:

The dogma of hellfire and literalism of Jesus parables have done more harm than Good. It has caused many to amputate their hands and many to relapse to agnostism and atheism.
It has made a great number of churchgoers to worship God, not out of their love for Him, but out of fear of torment in an unquenchable fire.......SO SAD!