The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only - Religion (14) - Nairaland
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Is Hell Real? What The Bible Says About Hell / Why Has Preaching About Hell Reduced In Churches? / How I Got Born-again (Christians Only) (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by MrAnony1(m): 8:28am On Oct 25, 2012 |
frosbel: Okay , let's play your game.Lolololololololol, frosbel, frosbel frosbel......Getting desperate now are we? If "forever" is not literal, then is "forever" also literal in 22:5? Be consistent please. Revelations can't mean forever in one part only not to mean it in another part just because mr frosbel wishes it so. Also interestingly, you have opted to quote 22:5 out of context because we both know that it is part of a description of the city of God. If you read down to 22:15 you will notice that it describes those who are outside this city of light (the outer darkness if you may) 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev 22:14-15 KJV If your problem is "day and night", you can have a look at Genesis 1 where there was "evening and morning" before the sun and the moon. As I have always maintained, it may or may not be a literal fire, it may or may not be "day and night" as we know it, but one thing is sure: The wicked will suffer for eternity just as the righteous will rejoice for eternity. 2. They will be tormented in the presence of the angels forever and ever.Mighty nonsense from you here. Even if we looked at it with blind literalism, it is not necessary to be within hell in order to observe hell. 3. Also our LORD will be watching the wicked burn for all eternity non stop, but how can this be seeing that the wicked will be in an outer darkness or hell ?Lol, you are getting really desperate here, you are beginning ask silly questions and to sound like the Sadducees who asked Jesus about marriage after resurrection. Again even if we took it with irrational literalism, are you insinuating that our Lord's sight is somehow defective that He cannot see in dark places? Lol. You make me laugh bitterly Oh by the way, I have addressed Ezekiel 28 a number of pages back. You probably skipped it. Interestingly that prophecy is not "literally" talking about satan but about Tyre and Sidon. It is interesting how you don't contest how "vividly" it talks about satan but are quick write of Revelations as too figurative to mean anything. Lol, your practice of seeking to cancel out one prophecy with another prophecy is terribly pathetic. Mate tradition has got you stumped big time and you don't even know it.Lol, you are like a rebelling teenager who thinks he has come of age and wants to contest everything, just because it was daddy that said so. The word of God is sure. Tradition must align itself to it, I must align myself to it and so must you if you are indeed one of His own. Don't try to beat scripture into the shape that you want just because you want to appear "different" 1 Like |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by ijawkid(m): 8:30am On Oct 25, 2012 |
Mr_Anony:But you were the one who indeed personified those abstracts terms ""death"" and ""Hell" .......All I did was tell you that for "" death"" to be thrown into the lake of fire,it only means that the lake of fire is symbolic and not a literal location were persons would be burning for all eternity.......remember I always stood by the fact that the lake of fire is a symbol of complete destruction....you were the one not agreeing..... The bible has many times refered to ""death""as if it was a person,,.but we all know death still remains what it is..""DEATH""...and death would be thrown in the lake of fire.......completely brought to nothing............ Mr_Anony:Now my question is why will ""death "" be no more??where did death go to??I thought death would continue to be purnished in a fiery Hell..living forever...right??....a previous chapter showed you how death was thrown into the lake of fire,and now @ revelation 21:4 it is said death will be no more....how does that sound to you??....what does that tell you about the lake of fire??its a symbol of complete destruction and obliteration.....but you would continue to argue because you are bent on clinging to your eternal torment dogma..... You asked why wasn't pain,sorrow and tears thrown into the lake of fire??.... It is simple...adamic death is the cause and the reason why we experience pain,sorrow and tears.........when death is destroyed symbolically the rest of its progeny would be gone forever too as well... Mr_Anony: I didn't personify death...the bible did....death is called an enemy in the bible...... And that enemy death is to be destroyed,not literally tormented forever.... That's how serious the concept of death is...it has plagued mankind for too long,and that is what Gods king designate would do away with..... Wether death is personified or not it still remains ""DEATH""....... I will like to quote what you wrote down in your earlier posts... ""I hold that Revelations personifies death and hades (my understanding is that you don't think they are personified but rather you interpret it as the concept of death itself being annihilated)"" ....... You were even the one insisting that revelation personified death....and now you are accusing me of personifying ""death"" ........ ............ Fortunately the bible does personify death too.... But wether death is personified or not,it still remains death.....you can keep comparing 1 corinthians 15:24-28,revelation 21:4,revelation 20:14 until you come to an agreement that the lake of fire is a symbol of total destruction..... Those persons whose names are found in the book of life ofcus will receive the gift of everlasting life(immortality)...why would there names be found in the book of life if not to gain eternal life??.....or did you expect they be thrown into the lake of fire to be destroyed?? Now these are my points that you seem to not understand ...... 1....The lake of fire is a symbol of complete destruction and not a place...... That is why both abstract and real elements are thrown into it.... The minute you understand this, your whole misconceptions and mysteries would come to an end.......... The problem you guys are having is that ,you feel that the lake of fire is literal and does have a location......... No!!!!!!!!!!!..... Its a symbol of complete and absolute destruction,annihilation, etc............ That is why Satan,(person) Demons(persons), Death(abstract), Wrongdoers(persons), Wild beast(abstract), Hades(grave)(abstract) Etc Are thrown into it..... ........... Mr anony you can do better........ The gift God gives is immortality,and that gift is what satan and his cohorts can never attain........ 2 Likes |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 9:32am On Oct 25, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: the question you should be asking is why will God be punishing someone for the sin they have paid the wages when they died? "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23). Yes, the wages of sin is death, and he that has died has been "forgiven/acquitted/freed from his sins that he committed befor he died the bible says: this applied to baptism, when a sinner repent, and get baptised his former sins are forgiven. "For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:7). ^^^ this is divine justice. It is the reason christ came to the world to undo the works of sins. Those that have died and receives the benefit of God's resurrection, on coming up at the resurrection their former sins will have been forgiven, there coming up from resurrection they are on a clean slate. those that have never heard about christ are going to be taught from the scrolls: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12). the acceptance or rejection of the things written on the scrolls by the dead that are resurrected determines if they will be destroyed for the second time(second death) or they will be given eternal life. This is a clear bible teaching that the wages of sin is death and those that have died have been acquitted from sin. "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." (1 John 4:  . |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by God2man(m): 9:37am On Oct 25, 2012 |
God2man: What is the meaning of the word "parable"? |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 10:06am On Oct 25, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: my friend, this is plain dishonesty from you. What was the purpose of the high place they build? That bible portion above clearly puts it this way: "to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire" why then are you twisting that scripture? It was that burning of their sons and their daughters in the fire that God said it has "never entered" his heart, but you had to twist it to suite your fire fire doctrine. There were different form of human sacrifice but God did not react in the same way like he did here. The next time in that same Jeremiah that the warning of human sacrifice in fire came up God again made similar statement that it has never entered his heart to burn people in fire. *sigh* |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 10:07am On Oct 25, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: desperate ? If "forever" is not literal, then is "forever" also literal in 22:5? Be consistent please. Revelations can't mean forever in one part only not to mean it in another part just because mr frosbel wishes it so. Again you miss the entire point, your theology is not consistent. Take the whole bible as one book of prophecy , study it with reference to both the old and new, if you do this , the truth will be revealed. Cherry picking, twisting certain passages out of context and out of their their originally intended meaning , will only push you into more confusion and error. Also interestingly, you have opted to quote 22:5 out of context because we both know that it is part of a description of the city of God. If you read down to 22:15 you will notice that it describes those who are outside this city of light (the outer darkness if you may) Indeed, and which is this present earth in it's rejuvenated form. But the outer darkness implies total darkness, try not to wriggle out of this one, that's what deceptive serpents do !
You are digging yourself into a hole. As mentioned above , outer darkness has to mean outer darkness, darkness means the total absence of light. Therefore to be tormented day and night in outer darkness is illogical. Or do you have another explanation as to why there will be daylight in outer darkness. What will be the source of this day , seeing that the SUN according to Peter will be dissolved and be no more ? Mighty nonsense from you here. Even if we looked at it with blind literalism, it is not necessary to be within hell in order to observe hell. If I were you I will laugh at my inability to consistently and truthfully interpret scripture in a proper and contextualised form. Again you have to take everything literal to be consistent. It will be rather dishonest not to , and will appear to show that you are arguing not for the truth but for tradition. So again , the angels will have to be where this torment is taking place and our Lord ( forbid it so ) will watch them roast for all eternity. Are you now beginning to see how silly this nonsense sounds to our ears. Oh by the way, I have addressed Ezekiel 28 a number of pages back. You probably skipped it. Interestingly that prophecy is not "literally" talking about satan but about Tyre and Sidon. It is interesting how you don't contest how "vividly" it talks about satan but are quick write of Revelations as too figurative to mean anything. Do not murder the integrity of scripture to confuse babes in Christ. It explicitly says the devil will be no more. For the audience, please read Ezekiel 28 , all of it, ask God for wisdom. Lol, you are like a rebelling teenager who thinks he has come of age and wants to contest everything, just because it was daddy that said so. Mate I am older than you no doubt, but have no qualms allowing you display your hyperactive youthfulness. Remember lolling will not get you out of this one. We will go down to the wire on this topic , and people may just begin to see how inconsistent false teachers are. 1 Like |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by ijawkid(m): 11:05am On Oct 25, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: For the wicked and satan to suffer excrutiating torture eternally it means that God will have to preserve them alive forever to keep torturing them.... And that goes contrary to the scriptures and Gods standard.... LIFE is a gift and not a ""purnishment"" It is either one is dead forever or that one keeps living forever....... Satan cannot live forever...immortality is what God gives to those who served him faithfully and not to satan and his cohorts..... Mr_Anony: For you to deny that the dirge directed to the human ""kings of tyre"" doesn't have a parallel to the course taken by the spirit son of God who first sinned who is now called ""satan"" would be one big lie..... There are so many parallels.... How would you actually run away from these clear verses.. Ezekiel 28:13-15.... 13 Thou hast been in"" Eden the garden of God""; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the"" anointed cherub"" that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast"" perfect"" in thy ways from the daythat thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee ......... Let me point out the similarities... 1.....Eden the garden of God....that certainly corresponds to biblical information concerning satan the devil,who became puffed up with pride,and linked to the serpent in EDEN... 2.....""Annointed cherub""..... We all know who cherubs are and ofcus satan was one........infact the king of tyre couldn't have literally been a cherub......satan was one... 3.....Verse 15 says ""thou was perfect in thy ways from the daythat thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee..... Satan was infact created a perfect being....satan was a perfect angel before his rebellion........the kings of tyre literally speaking weren't created perfect,they all were filled with adamic sin..... ........... I know you would deny these parallels because the thought of satan being"" destroyed"" just as the kings of tyre and sidon were is so far off from your perception...... 3 Likes |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 11:12am On Oct 25, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: tears and death and pain all join to be no more. That is why death is thrown into the lake of fire. of all what you said i found the one below as being very worthy of attention. Mr_Anony: at this point the Adamic death will be no more as all those that died the Adamic death that is not a death by God had come out. John 5:28,29. So, an empty grave/hell will be cast into the lake of fire, remove for ever. meaning that Adamic death as we have it today will be no more. But those that did not follow the instruction from the scroll then after the 1000yrs will be destroyed by God. "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12). According to there works withing the 1000yrs. Call it (by whatever means) of destruction if you like second death. but it is not an on going event but a one off permanent removal of all the entity involve in this destruction by God permanently, like death will be remove and be no more. Rev 20:4. What ever means of enihilation/removal /second death/fire. The main thing here is that this destruction is cause by God and not from Adam sin, this are human that are capable of living for a thousand years. God is a consuming fire. He will simply consume them out of existance for all eternity. Like burning a paper instead of tearing it. When you consume something, that thing ceases to exist. Second death. See what Isaiah says about this : "Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD." (Isaiah 26:10). & "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." (Isaiah 65:20). Second death = lake of fire is consistent with all those that have been kill or will be kill by God or rejected by God. 1. The pharisees = Gehena (fire) 2. end of this system of things = (2peter 3:10) fire. (melting) 3. The resurrected ones = second death(fire) fire = symbol of everlasting destruction by God. Not that the incident keeps on going on continuously. *edited*Je |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 11:34am On Oct 25, 2012 |
I'm so glad that I'm still following this thread. Image123, may the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be multiplied to you. Mr Anony, my beloved twin, may the Lord increase you evermore in wisdom. Reyginus, beloved brother, may you be strengthened even more with the might of Christ in the inward man. The rest of my brothers here, may the Lord bless you. I think that there is a connection between Matthew 27:52-53, 1 Peter 3:19-20 and the question of what happens between death and the last day. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 11:38am On Oct 25, 2012 |
ijawkid: @bolded, how again does something perfect become less than perfect? And if that is a possibility, what guarantee do we have that our perfect God will not become imperfect? |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by ijawkid(m): 11:51am On Oct 25, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: I'm so glad that I'm still following this thread. Image123, may the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be multiplied to you. Mr Anony, my beloved twin, may the Lord increase you evermore in wisdom. Reyginus, beloved brother, may you be strengthened even more with the might of Christ in the inward man. The rest of my brothers here, may the Lord bless you. And what is your point from matthew and 1 peter??... Eternal torment or?? |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by ijawkid(m): 11:56am On Oct 25, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: Are you asking me this question??..... Were the angels created imperfect?? My point is that satans beginning was perfect in contrast to the kings of tyre and sidon who were humans that had inherited sinfulness and imperfection from adam........but as we all know he(satan) became rebellious made him fall short of Gods glory.... ....... 2 Likes |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by cyrexx: 12:03pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
who is frosbella? Is that frosbel's daughter? Hi, bella, good to see you here. Hope you are not bored with all these back and forth. Daddy is doing so well knocking some sense into the the thick skull of these hellists. 2 Likes |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 12:33pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
Rev 19:11-19 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." "And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great." (Revelation 19:11-18). ^^^ this is the means of destroying the wicked in reality by christ, there is no mention of fire. But 2peter 3:10 uses fire. The fire there means that they will be destroyed forever, second death. = their destruction is everlasting. If it is a literal fire then we know that literal fire cannot burn satan him being a spirit creature. But as that revelation 19:11-18, not literal fire that will be used. But with the knowledge of what fire does we can understand that they will no longer exist forever. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by ijawkid(m): 12:34pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
cyrexx: Lol... Frosbel needs to clear us on this..... It seems there is a female frosbel in da house....lol... |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 2:27pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
ijawkid: I was a little worried , lol. I asked my wife and sister, they 'swore' it was not them. Let us hope it is not an on-line stalker  Frosbela over to you ! |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 2:33pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
frosbel: Maybe she's one of your female fan you know your battle against paganism has gone viral 1 Like |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 2:34pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
Ijawkid , Truthsight and friends, three questions we should ask our HELL Fire brimstone preachers are : 1. If Human beings are now in hell suffering, how come SATAN is roaming the earth free of charge ? I mean since he rebelled against GOD , he has never for one day endured the pain of fire even though he has a superior body to ours in that it is not flesh and blood. Also his SIN is greater than any sin MAN can commit but he is allowed to roam around with no punishment yet . 2. If Human beings and SATAN will be cast into the lake of fire at a future date , what bodies will the sinners be tormented in and what body will SATAN be tormented in ? Surely SATAN will endure the flames better because he is spirit , but we poor humans will burn with flesh and bones , according to Muslims as soon as the flesh is burnt up God will give the sinners a new one. 3. All these visions that people see , especially in Catholic South America which is 99% catholic , how come people witness demons tormenting people in HELL when the bible clearly says that the devil and his demons are roaming the earth to and fro. We need answers please ! 2 Likes |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 3:09pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
frosbel::@   |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 3:18pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
frosbel: Ijawkid , Truthsight and friends, three questions we should ask our HELL Fire brimstone preachers are : my friends. it is a big mistake for one to think/imagine that the bible is haphazardly written that it will support any and anyhow doctrine. Though people may abuse the scriptures by taking the information out of context, it does not take the truth away that a wrong doctrine contradicts the scriptures and when that happens, the right thing to do is to throw away that belief that does not agree with the bible GENESIS to Revelation. Truth is, the bible explain itself. There is a scripture somewhere in there that shade light at a rather seemingly rather hard to understand scripture, all it takes is to "keep on asking and KEEP on knocking" the answer is always there in bible. -It took a period of about 1500yrs to complete the writhings of the bible, GENESIS to Revelation and most of its writers did not see/know each other face to face and it took an amazing 40 persons to write this book called the bible we have today. For a book whose writing took about 1500yrs with 40 writers to be this consistent is very amazing to me indeed. Well, one person was around to ensure that the message was consistent through out it writing period of 1500yrs, i dont know if you know who that person was? @Frosbel let us wait for them to answer this your fine questions up there. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 3:22pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
frosbela: wow! I thought it was a joke! So, we now have a feminine Frosbel? Well, Thats cool. Lol. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Realtors: 3:48pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
Follow us on: www.pimioutreach.webs.com We really need serious Christian that can do anything to get the gospel to the unreach if you find yourself fit, then great rewards await you. 08022132445 |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Ubenedictus(m): 3:52pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
seriallink:sorry, enoch didnt make it in the canon, the catholic old testament is d greek scriptures, no enoch there. I believe was popular at a point until a council condemned the book. What other rejected ethopia took. The book wasnt written in greek or hebrew it was in d ethopian language. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Image123(m): 10:33pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
@frosb All 'spirits' go up , returning to GOD !I'm glad this is all you could manage as an 'attack' on my posts given your antecedents. It's a symbol that your questions have been answered, and a cue for you to run away/flee like the devil to open new threads on the same subject. At least the non-lazy will see your ostrichcity, and won't conclude that you are saying the truth just because we are not following you up and down to re-answer your questions. here is one of the verses i quoted again, Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? man is a physical being, not a spiritual being. 1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Man does not have a spiritual body but a natural one. Man is basically a living soul, unlike Jesus who is a spirit, a quickening spirit. But soon, we shall be like Him. Everybody will be resurrected. The saints will be partakers of the first resurrection. in the resurrection, all will receive spiritual bodies. Each man's soul, spirit and body will be joined again. The point i was making to ijawk was to show that when a man dies, his spirit, soul and body are separated. Apparently, the body goes to the dust, and the spirit goes up. But instead of you to learn the simple pieces we are trying to break down for the benefit of all the readers, you think you've found a phrase to attack and debunk. Try to learn. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 10:42pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
Image123: @frosb Man is not a separate body , spirit and soul. Man is either a soul when the breath ( spirit ) of God is in him or a body when the breath ( spirit ) of GOD leaves him ! A prayer of Moses the man of God. 1 Lord, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations. 2 Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God. 3 You turn people back to dust, saying, “Return to dust, you mortals.” - Psalm 90 1 Like |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Image123(m): 11:57pm On Oct 25, 2012 |
@ijawk The problem you are having right now is that you are just confused...... You seem to be the confused fellow. It is the Bible that talks of a first resurrection, not me. If resurrection is resurrection, the Spirit of God will not classify it differently. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. If the saints are not ressurected they have no business leaving there graves to strole in the heavens.......Nobody mentioned a 'strole' in the heavens, except of course you and your fellows. The spirit that goes back to God after ones death,is the ""breathe of life"".....You're in a monologue here right? i don't recall any conversation between me and you on definition of spirits or anything of such. Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? from my understanding, man is a living soul essentially. So, when he dies, his body(all bodies) go down, his spirit(all spirits) go up, he the soul goes to heaven(paradise, under the altar, abraham's bosom) or to hell(a place of darkness and torment). Abraham and co are all dead and unconscious as we speak......i have reasons to disagree. Reasons like Enoch, Abraham, Moses and Elijah. they are not unconscious but in a position of rest. And like Solomon said, there are varying proportions of rest. Sinners and saints are not enjoying equal rest. Dead people do not have the same level of rest. Ecc 6:5 Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other. Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Heb 4:11 Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. these are all scriptures that you need to go and digest cummulatively, instead of your usual cherry pick style of making scriptures to conform to your ideas. Study scriptures, and learn to rightly divide them. Scripture is complete. Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. All dead saints, just like Lazarus Phi 1:23 For I am in a strait between two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: God is a God of the living in the sense that he ressurects all those who were faithful to Him back to life.....ressurection is the reason why God is called the God of the living,not because when we die our spirits start running around the place.........get that pagan supersticious belief off your system.......... Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. The Bible doesn't say like you that God will be the God of the living. No, it says God is the God of the living. i never mentioned 'spirits running around the place', dunno where you get that idea from, maybe frosb. Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Now, this is controversial and unpopular, but i'll advise that you take that statement and its likes in the context of living men. Actually, the fact Christ was trying to pass across was that His authority supercedes others because He had come from heaven unlike other men who had not been there. he wasn't teaching on where men go to when they die. Obviously, Moses and Elijah later appeared to Jesus and spoke to Him of what He was to face. These are faithful patriachs that are not in their graves but in glory. And I can see how you skillfully dodged the pertinent question I asked....i answered your question as clearly as i could. i even gave other examples to help you, you may re-read it if you please. here though was the direct answer i gave, i find nothing shaky in it. if you so need the definition, you may open another thread. I have already stated that paradise, abraham's bosom, under the altar, sleeping in Jesus are all phrases used to describe the state of dead believers. They are all the same thing expressed in different names to show us a more thorough view. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Image123(m): 12:41am On Oct 26, 2012 |
Man is not a separate body , spirit and soul. What is wrong with you, can't you read? Again, you are going to detract issues, as i know that you will only take some insignificant something/phrase from this post, twist it, and leave other parts ignored and unattended to. And then, i answer that and you take another fraction, and another. At the end, you're ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Try to learn. Man is not a separate body , spirit and soul. Who has made a contrary statement apart from maybe you? I said and i repeat, when a man dies, his spirit, soul and body are separated. Man is either a soul when the breath ( spirit ) of God is in himMan is man. he can be referred to as any while alive. Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. Psa 78:39 For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again. God can refer to man as a soul. He can also refer to him as flesh or body. Man is not essentially spiritual. His spirit is 'dead' if you can understand that, until salvation.(Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins). One would hardly see man referred to as spirit unlike soul or flesh which is common. But if any man be in Christ, he becomes a new creature. he is born of spirit, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, if you would have it. there is a lot of exhortation for believers to follow the line, walk as a spiritual person etc. So man is not just a soul, he is made up of spirit,soul and body. or a body when the breath ( spirit ) of GOD leaves him ! Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Man is not just a body when he dies. If the soul that sinneth will die, what happens to the soul that is a saint's? |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 1:26am On Oct 26, 2012 |
truthislight: Rev 19:11-19 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." in addition to the book of Rev. 19:11-18 above, this Jeremiah: Jeremiah 25:32-33 also prophetically stated : "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground." (Jeremiah 25:32-33). ^^^ this is the means of bringing destruction to the wicked at the end of this system will. "As manure at the surface of the earth the wicked will be" and Rev. 19:18 said that after the death of the wicked, they bird of the heaven will be called for the lord's evening meal. But since this set of people are killed by God their death is eternal death, no resurrection. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 1:56am On Oct 26, 2012 |
DP |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 2:09am On Oct 26, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: at this point the Adamic death will be no more as all those that died the Adamic death that is not a death by God had come out. John 5:28,29. So, an empty grave/hell will be cast into the lake of fire, remove for ever. meaning that Adamic death as we have it today will be no more. But those that did not follow the instruction from the scroll then after the 1000yrs will be destroyed by God. "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12). According to there works withing the 1000yrs. Call it (by whatever means) of destruction if you like second death. but it is not an on going event but a one off permanent removal of all the entity involve in this destruction by God permanently, like death will be remove and be no more. Rev 20:4. What ever means of enihilation/removal /second death/fire. The main thing here is that this destruction is cause by God and not from Adam sin, this are human that are capable of living for a thousand years. See what Isaiah says about this : "Let (though) favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD." (Isaiah 26:10). & "There shall be no more thence an infant of days,(no child dying prematurely) nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." (Isaiah 65:20). Note here ^^^ that a hundred years old person is refered to as a child. So, curse by God = being destroyed by God. (second death) how do we know? because : "for the child shall die an hundred years old" = second death. Second death = lake of fire is consistent with all those that have been kill or will be kill by God or rejected by God. 1. The pharisees = Gehena (fire) 2. end of this system of things = (2peter 3:10) fire. (melting) 3. The resurrected ones = second death(fire) fire = symbol of everlasting destruction by God. Not that the incident keeps on going on continuously after christ have finished his 1000yrs rulership, he will hand over a cleans human race to his father. 1 Like |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by ijawkid(m): 3:01am On Oct 26, 2012 |
Image123: @ijawk No you are the confused one.........if you can't comprehend what the term ""ressurection"" means irrespective of wether its first or second....... My point if you have noticed is that until one is ressurected(just as Jesus was) that fellow can never be in any other place other than his or her grave.....now that one fact is what you are dodging from.........to you when we die,our souls escape to its various abode before an individual is ressurected...now isn't that false??.......... Image123: Now can you please compare daniel 12:2 and john 5:28-29?? 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, inthe which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. ....... Again those in there graves have to wait till they receive the command of ressurection..... This still supports my stance that if on isn't ressurected,that persons soul cannot exist outside his or her body.... I am pro-ressurection,not pro immortality of the soul....... Don't you get it?? Image123:Its good you are saying from your understanding!!!!.....and your understanding is warped completely from the bibles point of view....... EcclesÍastes plainly tells us where all ""spirits"" go to after they a person returns to the dust....it is you and your trickery that has assumed that whÉn man dies his soul goes to heavÉn (altar) or Hell,body to ground and spirit go up.... if I may ask you where does the spirit go up to??to NASA or some astronauts up there in outer space??there you go again twisting plain scriptures to fit into your pagan belief.......solomon says all spirits regardless of whose(bad or good) spirit goes back to the source(God)...now what is that spirit?? .you also said the soul either goes to the altar and then you equally a ssumed that the alter is paradise,or the soul goes to Hell..... And you are not still certain if abraham is in heaven or not.....!!!!!!!!!!! Even after learning that the word"" Hell"" is grave you are still holding on to the false notion of it because as I can see your life depends on it..... Jesus went to"" HELL"" and stayed there for 3days,so I wonder how we are going to handle your issue........ And again if these souls run to heaven or hell before they are eventually ressurected of what use is the word ressurection??God would be wasting his time ressurecting persons who by default according to you and your cohorts are in either heaven or Hell fire already imme.diately afte.r death.......... Image123:Now I know you got a very big problem understanding scriptures........ I can't believe you will quote a scripture like eccl 6:5 to support your yeye stance on this discussion..... How wayo of you not to had read from verse 3 to find out who these persons are that will have more rest than a man who has toiled all is life in world of vanity.... ........ Eccl 6:3-5 3 A man may have a hundred children and live many years; yet no matter how long he lives, if he cannot enjoy his prosperity and does not receive proper burial, I say that a"" stillborn"" child is better off than he. 4 It comes without meaning, it departs in darkness, and in darkness its name is shrouded. 5 Though it never saw the sun or knew anything, it has more rest than does that man— ....... Do you see that ecclesiastes was talking about a still born child?? Please image123 I would want you to define who a still born child is and please tell me how this verses supports your definition of rest.........the way you have twisted the words of solomon just to let it fit into your spurious belief has left me bewildered....do you even understand what solomon was talking about?? SMH!!!!!!!!....... So from your false assertions under what group would we categorize children who are born dead?? Sinners or saints??so that we can tell who rests more or who rests less.... Image123 Please always make it your aim to read your bible complete before coming here to post myths...... Image123:You are once again quoting a parable as a real life event.....when would you actually wake up to the fact that it was a parable??.... And again I'll say that the dead are consious of nothing @ all until they are ressurected..... And if I may ask what do you understand from matthew 27:52-53 that you had to juxtapose with john 12:32?? Jesus said when he is lifted up from the earth,he'll draw men unto himself....right?? Now let me ask you:::::: had Jesus been raised from the earth when that incident recorded in matthew 27:52-53 occured?? What brought out those bodies from the graves?? Image123: Image123 for you to make this statement """""Actually, the fact Christ was trying to pass across was that His authority supercedes others because He had come from heaven unlike other men who had not been there. he wasn't teaching on where men go to when they die""""" shows that you are a hater of truths and a lover of human traditions and lies .. ....... ......... For you to refute Jesus' clear statement in john 3:13 is what might make me truncate this discussion I'm having with you...if Jesus said before I came to the earth from heaven I never saw anybody ascend to the heavens, why can't you just believe Him.......except you are insinuating that Jesus didn't check the heavens very well before his descension to the earth....... From Jesus' clear words @ john 3:13,elisha and moses are right in there graves waiting for when Jesus would ressurect them....... It seems you still haven't come to the reality that Jesus is the first born from the dead.......the more you push that moses ,elijah and all faithful partriarchs are in heaven and not in there graves the more you are negating Jesus as the first born from the dead......... I believe you did read about the ""transfiguration""....and a transfiguration it was........nothing more nothing less....continue to re-read john 3:13 until you balance your beliefs with the scriptures..... Image123: Staying. Under an altÀr is not synonymous to paradise.........there souls(blood) being under that §ymbolic or figurative altar shows that those matyrs died a sacrificial death.....I had pointed out this trÙth that corresponds with the ancient temple in Jerusalem.......but you would rather hold on to believe that the blood of those saints are infact the saints themselves in paradise,,,,, Blood is what is put around or underneath an altar and not humans..... I had earlier told you that the soul in that context is the blood which is equal to LIFE...... ........... I would like to ask you one good question:::: WHERE IS THE SOUL,BODY,and SPIRIT of adam and eve our first parents who landed us in this predicaments we are facing?? 2 Likes |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 4:02pm On Oct 26, 2012 |
@ Ijawkid, Frosbel, fresky, let us look at this two scriptures at Isaiah and see what we can learn the more from it. "Let (though) favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD." (Isaiah 26:10). & "There shall be no more thence an infant of days,(no child dying prematurely) nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." (Isaiah 65:20). (Isaiah 26:10). "Let (though) favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD." (Isaiah 26:10). I can learn from this scripture that the majesty of Yahweh will start after the 1000years of christ rule. When christ hands over to Yahweh and all the resurrected unfaithful having been destroyed. Then Yahweh will open his hand and bless all makind to the full. This is what the wicked will not see. What else can we learn? |
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