sylve11: Italo I dey shame for u. Ijawkid just finished u and all u could do's constant repetition of words. Sorry to say, I am catholic and same time a christian, but when matters like 'Catholics worship Idols surfaces, I keep quiet and never speak a word'. If u can answer some of ijawkid's questions, then this whole protestant vs catholic would have been over. As a catholic, I don't support the idea of bowing down to Mary whom I don't even know her looks; the rest of my brethren can crucify me for saying this but I don't care. If the bible was compiled by catholic, then where's it in the bible we should bow before Mary's image? Ijawkid made valid points even though I don't take side with his doctrine. Ur questions are annoying. If Ijawkid and the rest of the protestant or pentecostal bow to worship their bible, that is their own cup of tea. Infact the way Christianity is going now, I don't truly _stand who are the true Christians anymore. God of the heavens and Christ Your Son I believe in. Private jets flying all around in the name of Christ.; as for who came 1st or 2nd is non of ma business, my only question is ' what is happening to Christianity as a body' or religion? *sad*

Hmmm!

You know what?

The thief by Jesus side was qualified for paradise for speaking the truth, please, keep standing for the truth.
Please.

Enigma:

I think this is one of the most sensible points in all the posts/threads dealing with "my denomination or my abomination is better than yours."

Jesus Christ established "The Church". He did not establish The Roman Catholic Church (aka 'The Catholic Church'); or the Pentecostal Church, or the Anglican church, or the Baptist Church; or the Methodist Church; or "Power Must Change Hands Ministry", or "Koboko Ministry".

Part of the answer to your question what is hapening to Christianity as a body is the consequence of this insane denominationalism; just as 'tribalism' and 'ethnicism' are dragging Nigeria down, denominationalism is having a corrupting and corroding effect on what Christianity is supposed to be.

In the earliest days, the Church did not have any of these denominational adjectives; instead the Church was simply identified where a particular branch of the one Church met: e.g. the Church at Ephesus, the Church at Antioch, the Church in Rome, 'the Church that meets in your home' etc.

When Ignatius, who was not a Roman Catholic, coined the expression "catholic", he did not mean it as a denomination at all. He was trying to highlight the oneness of the Church; and he meant by catholic essentially universal. It is a pity that Roman Catholics reject this original meaning of catholic; that they dissociate themselves from the catholic Church, which is the universal Church, in order to advance their very very sad denominationalism!

It is true that about 200-250 years after Ignatius coined the word catholic with its original meaning, a particular appropriation of the word took place particularly in the time of Theodosius (and Damasus); even that does not compare with the misuse of the word today.

As for the other denominations (other than Roman Catholic), each has its own problems including shortcomings on both orthodoxy and orthopraxy. So no one is perfect. It may appear paradoxical that the Church in its different faces or denominations has all these problems. Yet we need to bear a number of things in mind: the warnings from Jesus Himself and from the apostles that wolves etc will come into and be inside the Church! Second, even as for Christians who are trying to do right, there is one thing we must remember: one can only do it if one constantly submits to the Holy Spirit. I think this is where we miss it and this is a very significant cause of all these our difficulties.

As for the private jet people, many of the leaders practising and teaching these things may not even be Christians at all; or at best, what they are practising is not Christianity even if they are honest but genuinely mistaken. Unfortunately, their followers are too blinded by bling, desire or even greed to be concerned to pay attention to the not very hard to understand teachings of Jesus and the apostles on subjects like that. I don't think anyone who reads, understands and tries to be guided by 1 Timothy 6 will have difficulties seeing the private jet fad for the worldy nonsense that it all is.

Hmmm!

Well, i kind of liked this.

Not less than 95/100.
Peace

Boomark:
Are you saying that catholic used the remains of the apostles to lay the foundation of their church building in Rome sa as to fulfil what he said "on this rock i will build my church." this is illiteracy.
Sorcery and rituals are now being unveiled. When Obadiah777 said it i thought he was joking.

i thought u had at least a little bible sense to piece my comment together, but d above shows a fatal flaw in ur comprehension. So mayb i shuld give it to u in milk form. Wen i said yeah God built a building, the church, i was refering to 1 cor 3:7, the apostles as foundation was a direct ref to eph2:20. So learn to open ur head and think before u begin to type and dont give anyone a reason to call u dumb!

And lastly d remains weren't used to build house of worship instead the early xtians built houses of worship upon d grave of each apostle, both to safeguard it and to symbolise d spiritual by d material.
I wont be suprised if u dont undastand.

I can't be a catholic because am not deluded to practice idolatry.

you cant be a catholic becos u are interested in ur untruth.

Boomark:

That is why he rebuked idol worshipers "deeperly."

hahaha, i remember a proverb, agama agama fell from d top of d iroko, looked both sides a no one praised him, he nod his head and praised him self. E no easy

Enigma:
Jesus Christ established "The Church". He did not establish The Roman Catholic Church (aka 'The Catholic Church'); or the Pentecostal Church, or the Anglican church, or the Baptist Church; or the Methodist Church; or "Power Must Change Hands Ministry", or "Koboko Ministry".

or so because "the church" was named catholic church that means it is no longer d church christ establish abi? That is a strawman.

That is no 1 strawman, i will addres d rest later

italo:

This is what you resort to when you have no reasonable ground to stand on. You start to post like one who isn't even reading the posts you are arguing against. Let me try one more time, hoping your brain will be sharp enough to process my post accurately this time.

Anyone who knows that the Catholic faith is the true faith and rejects it will be condemned. Do you need an interpreter in your local dialect?

Poo!!

With all the gibberish you wrote up there, it's clear that you either lack reading comprehension skills or you a are very dishonest debater. Nonsense!!!

You want to twist my words huh Mr. Twister? What is the difference between the bolded and what I wrote in my previous post? Smh!!! I won't waste my time replying your post again since you've resorted to your usual attitude of fighting over what you can't change! Going by the bolded part, it's glaring that sooner or later, Catholics like you will start calling other Christians infidels. Smh again and again!!!

Being a dedicated Roman Catholic Church member doesn't guarantee your salvation. You have to work out your salvation yourself. Better start working on it now, don't say I didn't tell you!!

Your Church can't save you or anyone, salvation is an individual thing; the earlier you get that into your brains the better for you!!!


It's crystal clear that the delusion stated in the scripture below is for folks like you.

2Thessalonians 2:10-12

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

seriallink:
Poo!!

With all the gibberish you wrote up there, it's clear that you either lack reading comprehension skills or you a are very dishonest debater. Nonsense!!!

"Dishonest?" That word belongs to you, as any sane person can testify.

seriallink: You want to twist my words huh Mr. Twister? What is the difference between the bolded and what I wrote in my previous post?

Daftie! The difference is that you are implying that ALL who reject some Catholic teachings are hellbound. I'm saying ONLY those who KNOW that the Catholic faith is the true faith and REJECT it are condemned, not ALL.
What part of Nigeria are you from, let me post it in your local language.

seriallink: Smh!!! I won't waste my time replying your post again since you've resorted to your usual attitude of fighting over what you can't change! Going by the bolded part, it's glaring that sooner or later, Catholics like you will start calling other Christians infidels. Smh again and again!!!

You are the one fighting against what you can't change - The position of the Catholic Church and its doctrine. I am fighting against the error of protestantism which is constantly changing anyway.

seriallink: Being a dedicated Roman Catholic Church member doesn't guarantee your salvation. You have to work out your salvation yourself. Better start working on it now, don't say I didn't tell you!!

You are just manufacturing teachings that you wish the Catholic Church had, and debunking you fabricated teachings yourself. Tell that to your fellow protestants. You are the ones that say SOLA FIDE is sufficient, meaning all you have to do is have faith in Jesus (thereby becoming a member of what they call the church of Christ). You don't have to WORK out you salvation. Just accept Jesus as your personal Lord and saviour. It is the Catholic Church that holds firm and says you must WORK towards your salvation in addition to having faith. The Church possesses all the means for salvation through the sacraments but you have to use them to live and work out your faith. Now you are trying to force your false doctrine on us and accuse us of your crimes.

Shameless hypocrisy!

^^^@Italo,

A hypocrite like you callings folks hypocrites? I smh for you italo!!!

You think I have the time to be running round in circles with you over issues like this? Look for brainwashed Catholic bigots like yourself to lecture on matters of christianity, not me!!!

Nonsense!

italo:

Daftie! The difference is that you are implying that ALL who reject some Catholic teachings are hellbound. I'm saying ONLY those who KNOW that the Catholic faith is the true faith and REJECT it are condemned, not ALL.

^^^^

Wow, dummy you!!!

You should have made your point clearer, instead of using the 'Catholic Church' for your explanation! It's much more easier and clearer to say those who know the 'Supremacy of the Body of Christ (Christianity as a whole)' and reject it are damned!!! Example, spiritual satanists and other unbelievers!

But when you say those who know that the catholic church is the only true church and reject it are doomed, it will mean you are referring to Christians of other denominations who do not practice the Catholic doctrines!

^^^^
Believe it or not, that wasn't my point of argument, I created that thread because some Catholics I have met and argued with resorted to Matthew 16-18-19 as proof that their Church is the only true Church and other denominations/Christians are damned! You may NOT think that way but that doesn't change the fact that some catholics understand that passage differently.

So, before you start ranting and spewing bullcraps next time, try to make your point clearer.

plappville:

Scripture did not say that, the Apostles bowed to any image, they prayed, and the Holy Spirit came down. Have you been following this same method? Capital letter "NO" you have a different doctrine so how does the Catholic that is known with idolatry doctrine be thesame Church that was born on the day of *Penticost*?

Perfect! YES, it is still the same UNIVERSAL/Catholic Church that was born on the Pentecost day that we have today because HISTORY(including the one written by Protestant Historians) did not record that THIS TRUE CHURCH DISAPPEARED at any time or change into something else other UNIVERSAL/Catholic. Remember that Christ said in Matthew16:18 that the gate of hell cannot overcome this church born on pentecost and latter became known as UNIVERSAL/Catholic. So it is either that Christ is "Lieing" when He made that statement or you are Lieing when you said that this TRUE CHURCH(UNIVERSAL/Catholic) changed her method, have a different doctrine and is now known for Idolatry. But guess what? You and I know THAT CHRIST CANNOT LIE, but I don't know IF YOU CAN LIE.

I read a book about a little girl whose eyes was opened and saw hell. She saw a young boy who was in hell for being disobedient. She also saw a pope there.
Pls these are not my words oooo, itz just a book I read.

mkmyers45:

and who says the church started in Rome? Peter went to Rome toward the end of his life and there suffered martyrdom UNDER NERO. NO SOURCE describes the place of Peter's martyrdom as other than Rome. It seems most probable, on the whole, that Peter died a martyr's death IN ROME TOWARD THE CLOSE OF NERO'S REIGN, sometime AFTER the cessation of the general persecution.

“The Church here in Babylon, united with you by God’s election, sends you her greeting, and so does my son, Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13, Knox). Babylon is a code-word for Rome. It is used that way multiple times in works like the Sibylline Oracles (5:159f), the Apocalypse of Baruch (2:1), and 4 Esdras (3:1). Eusebius Pamphilius, in The Chronicle, composed about A.D. 303, noted that “It is said that Peter’s first epistle, in which he makes mention of Mark, was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon.”

Babylon is in either Iraq or Iran i'm not too sure, besides peter's ministry was concentrated in Jerusale. Paul was the one that spread the Gospel in Rome along with some other missionaries that went with him

mygirrl:

Babylon is in either Iraq or Iran i'm not too sure, besides peter's ministry was concentrated in Jerusale. Paul was the one that spread the Gospel in Rome along with some other missionaries that went with him

...as far as you know...*smiles*

italo:

...as far as you know...*smiles*

watz funny

.

I promise a correction bt d holiday took my time so i'll give dem anyway

Enigma:
When Ignatius, who was not a Roman Catholic,

be careful, ignatuis wasn't in rome, he was d bishop of antioch! And he wrote dat d roman see presided in love ove d whole church! And up till today d church of antioch is still presided over by d roman see! And d successor of ignatuis is presided by d bishop of rome as was ignatius!

coined the expression "catholic", he did not mean it as a denomination at all. He was trying to highlight the oneness of the Church; and he meant by catholic essentially universal.

i totally agree! He was highlighting d oneness of d church! That is y anyone wu didnt abide by dat onenes was considerd a heretic and schimatic

It is a pity that Roman Catholics reject this original meaning of catholic; that they dissociate themselves from the catholic Church, which is the universal Church, in order to advance their very very sad denominationalism!

this is a fairytale! Wen ignatuis used d word catholic church he was refering to those wu held d onedoctrine of christ, all wu didnt weren't called catholics but instead name after d heresy they follow!

It is true that about 200-250 years after Ignatius coined the word catholic with its original meaning, a particular appropriation of the word took place particularly in the time of Theodosius (and Damasus); even that does not compare with the misuse of the word today.

u haven't shown how d word is misused today, did ignatuis or damascus call heretic catholics? Pls ansa! If dey didnt den y shuld catholics do so?

As for the other denominations (other than Roman Catholic), each has its own problems including shortcomings on both orthodoxy and orthopraxy. So no one is perfect. It may appear paradoxical that the Church in its different faces or denominations has all these problems. Yet we need to bear a number of things in mind: the warnings from Jesus Himself and from the apostles that wolves etc will come into and be inside the Church! Second, even as for Christians who are trying to do right, there is one thing we must remember: one can only do it if one constantly submits to the Holy Spirit. I think this is where we miss it and this is a very significant cause of all these our difficulties.

As for the private jet people, many of the leaders practising and teaching these things may not even be Christians at all; or at best, what they are practising is not Christianity even if they are honest but genuinely mistaken. Unfortunately, their followers are too blinded by bling, desire or even greed to be concerned to pay attention to the not very hard to understand teachings of Jesus and the apostles on subjects like that. I don't think anyone who reads, understands and tries to be guided by 1 Timothy 6 will have difficulties seeing the private jet fad for the worldy nonsense that it all is.

i don't have a problem wit d above, but it would be gud 4 u to learn how d word "catholic" was used by d early xtians, it was never used to describe a heretic or anyone wu held false doctrines!
Peace

Enigma:

@ italo

The Roman Catholic Church (aka 'The Catholic Church') is just another denomination; it is not the Church or "the one true Church" founded by Christ.

The real one true Church founded by Christ is the Church of Christ aka the Christian Church aka the universal Church aka the catholic Church.


The real one true Church founded by Christ which is the catholic Church has members in the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Baptist Church, the Evangelical Church the Pentecostal Church etc etc and even includes people who do not belong to any denomination.


The real one true Church founded by Christ is even found where just two or three are gathered in Jesus' name.

so u mean christ found all d churches dat started in d 16th century how funny, christ lived in d 1st century. Again how come d so called worldwide church u claim christ founded have very contradictory teachings! It seem u are saying christ failed. Sorry but protestanism isnt history christainity and if protestanism isn't then penticostalism doesnt stand a chance

Boomark:

You have to apologise to me for calling me a lier. I said i am invincible not invisible. Have you seen how you are lying an innocent me? ;( Also show me where i said you called the apostles the catholic church. Italo and ubenedictus are notorious in twisting another persons comment. Now you have joined them in their notoriousity.

now this is uncharitable! I dont twist pipo comments! And hey wu made u judge! U were d one wu said predestination isnt biblical right?

seriallink:

The bolded makes me wonder if the Church being discussed is a cult or something?? Smh!!!

Is the question not supposed to be 'do you believe in God Almighty and the sacrifice of His son for your salvation?'. Why must it be about believing in a Church for salvation? What if the Church leaders erred? He should just follow in their footsteps like sheeple without asking questions?

Salvation is an individual thing and it comes only through believing in God and the sacrifice of His son for our sins and living the Christ-like life! Shikena!!!

how would you knowc this is among d reason y i cant associate protestanism with history christianity. The above show an interesting ignorance of the historic creeds, mayb enigma knows dem and can xplain.

Enigma:

Anything you like you can play, that one does not concern me after your last post addressed to me.

Now to the point: the Church of Christ does not "contradict" itself.

Rather, organisations and denominations like the Roman Catholic Church, Koboko Ministry, Power Must Change Hands Ministry etc etc etc etc are the ones contradicting each other.

The members of the body of Christ may have different understandings of certain issues e.g. the Council of Jerusalem having to address some matters (and which still did not mean that different groups even at that time had uniform practices), Paul having to confront Peter, Paul himself facing charges of hypocrisy etc. Nevertheless, the body of Christ, the Church of Christ ---- remains united by the One Holy Spirit and by their One Lord. Simples.

here is d difference, paul could accuse peter of a seemingly wrong practice not of a wrong doctrine. The church christ established had conformity in doctrine dat is y d council of jerusalem was convocked, to proclaim "thus is what it is". Ur idea of d church of christ with contradictory doctrine is an illusion!

Enigma:

Very good point! When people place an organisation above Christ Himself, then it is legitimate to wonder.

dis is more intarasting! Does dis mean dat enigma is ignorant of d historic creed so he cant even recognise it?

Enigma:

I imagine the Holy Spirit inspired one "pope" to say “We declare, state, define and pronounce that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman pontiff.” Yet He inspires the Roman Catholic Church to contradict that "pope"; even yet He inspires the Roman Catholic Church to say that "pope" was infallible and that statement is infallible ---- yet He inspires the Roman Catholic Church to contradict it. Yeah, right; thank you very much sir.



Even after that the different groups still had different practices (e.g. Jews and Gentile groups); it did not prevent them from being one in Christ and all part of the one body of Christ.



1. I have already given you the example of the church that met in the house of Prisca and Aquilla; and also the church that met in the house of Philemon.*

2. I give you two more examples: (a) Romans 16:23 - "Gaius, whose hospitality I and the whole church here enjoy, sends you his greetings."; (b) Luke 9: 49“Master,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.” 50“Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

3. Most importantly are you telling us that Jesus was lying or was a "joker" when He said "where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst of them."?




1. Jesus is the only Head of the Church. Any other person claiming or being called by that title ---- is false.

2. I am not interested in "denominations" as such and even less so what you refer to as "so-called denominations".

3. The Roman Catholic Church is a denomination and one of the "so-called denominations".

4. The aggrandisement and fraud of the Roman Catholic Church prevents the possibility of a truly ecumenical council now; which is why it is holding its own councils like Trent etc and if it likes it can deceive itself that things like Trent etc are "ecumenical".



* EDIT I also previously gave the example of the Ethiopean eunuch --- he did not stop being a member of the body of Christ or of the Church of Christ even when it was him alone.

intarasting! Do u mind xplaining no4?

plappville:
[size=14pt]Pplease tell him/her ooooo..... This Popeitalo get serious problem ooo [/size]

and plapp is also ignorant of d historic creeds! How can protestants still claim to b historic christian wen dey cant even trace their roots?

Boomark:

will your church agree to gather with the Christians so we can thrash out idol worship from their brain?

old news! Ask enigma to teach u abt d 7th ecumenical council, if he know abt it. I doubt u will accept what i say!

chasy16:

I agree with u. Italo is another sentimental thrash. Claiming catholic is the only true church is phucking annoying.

it only annoys u because u cant say same 4 u denomination.

seriallink:

^^^^

@Italo,

So anyone who knowingly reject some Catholic teachings and doctrines because they are not scriptural is doomed? Smh!!! I wonder why those doctrines weren't written down in the scripture if they were truly inspired by the holy spirit!

Why would you say my accusation was a lie? Were you there when I was creating the thread? Did you know what pushed me into creating that thread? C'mon stop being childish!

So, you want to tell me that what your Catholic brother striktlymi posted weren't good enough for you? Oh, I guess that was because the facts he presented weren't uniform with your idea of 'The Holy Roman Catholic Church being the only true Church' huh? Well, that's understandable!!

It seems Mr. Ube supported your idea which explains why you seconded his post. I have replied to his post and waiting for his response.

I'm not trying to force you leave your Church doctrines or anything. But you have to get the message and stop deluding youself that the 'Holy Roman Catholic Church is the only true Church'. By saying that, you've already condemned other denominations/Christians. Are you the righteous judge to know that Christ will pick only from your supposedly 'Only True Church'?

Lets leave it at that. I have made my point. Just know that anytime you say your Church is the 'only true church', you've already condemned other christians; meaning, you've already judged on behalf of the Almighty God!

d question i alway ask, where is it written dat all doctrine must be in d bible?

truthislight:

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. " (John 4:24).

u neva disappoint me, ofcux u have started throwing scriptures around.

Ubenedictus: now this is uncharitable! I dont twist pipo comments! And hey wu made u judge! U were d one wu said predestination isnt biblical right?

The type of predestination i meant is the type a catholic ones told me. He said, "if any one commits suicide, God has destined him to die that day and by that means." Anytin that looks like this is certainly not in the bible.

Ubenedictus: here is d difference, paul could accuse peter of a seemingly wrong practice not of a wrong doctrine. The church christ established had conformity in doctrine dat is y d council of jerusalem was convocked, to proclaim "thus is what it is". Ur idea of d church of christ with contradictory doctrine is an illusion!

Enigma was right. The true doctrine of the church of Christ is Solely base on the scripture. The man made doctrines of the catholic, winners, assemblies, etc, are what contradicts one another.

A catholic or a deeper life member will not tell you that their church doctrines contradicts itself.

2good: your level if delusion is beyond imagination. Pentecostal movement originated from the Lutheran church created by a former Roman Catholic German monk called Martin Luther. Get a proper history education and stop reading your bible

are u a demon? Y would u ask some1 to stop reading his Bible?

Ubenedictus: d question i alway ask, where is it written dat all doctrine must be in d bible?

the doctrine in the bible is more than enough for Christians to follow. That is the doctrine of the church Christ raised.

Where did you get other doctrine you follow?

DanielNoble: are u a demon? Y would u ask some1 to stop reading his Bible?

That is what they encourage.

SMH!!!

IF YOU ARE DOING ANYTHING CHRIST AND HIS APOSTLES DID NOT TEACH THEN YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN!!!