TroGunn:

It's not his job to provide you a date for an irrelevant celebration Christ did not command. He's simply told you the pagan history and practices surrounding the current celebration called Christmas- information you can verify for yourself. You are old enough to grasp that and make up you own mind what to do with the information.

Please learn to read my posts and the post i am responding to. That way you understand what is being discussed.

alexleo:

And you were the person that told me if Jesus was around now he will wear suit and trouser. What makes you think he will not allow us to celebrate him if he was here?

Birthday celebrations existed during his time but he never celebrated or instructed his disciples to observe it when he is gone!

Zikkyy:

why you dey fear to just say 'YES' If you believe you know what you are talking about, say yes and provide evidence or forever remain silent.

What yes, My answers are base on the Scriptures, you can read, so you have the chioce to accept them or let them go for someone else that values Gods truth!

Who have time to argue blindly...!! See how unserious you are....!

Zikkyy:

we did not at any time claim that the disciples celebrated Jesus birthday. and we did not at any time claimed that Jesus instructed his birthday should be celebrated. what is not smart is you not reading our posts.

Since you guys rely on the belief that Christ did not instruct that his birthday be celebrated, can you also prove to us that there is an embargo on the celebration of Christ birthday. [size=16pt]what we know is that the scriptures is silent on the matter of birthday.[/size]

plappville:
He got no date to fabricate, sure you understand that post clearly. Here is it again:

Your post is still not relevant. Below is the post i was responding to...

ijawkid:
.....celebrating the birth day of Jesus on dec 25th is a big time fraud.........

If celebrating the birth of Jesus on dec 25th is a fraud he must have some other date in mind abi?

Zikkyy:

we did not at any time claim that the disciples celebrated Jesus birthday. and we did not at any time claimed that Jesus instructed his birthday should be celebrated. what is not smart is you not reading our posts.

Since you guys rely on the belief that Christ did not instruct that his birthday be celebrated, can you also prove to us that there is an embargo on the celebration of Christ birthday. what we know is that the scriptures is silent on the matter of birthday.



Some say it is October, but nobody is sure. If it was celebrated in October, would that make you happy then?

You are not after to accept the truth from the Scripture, you are just after keeping your pagan feast.
I thought you seek Scripture truth, but this thread has been exposing you gradually!

Zikkyy:

Your post is still not relevant. Below is the post i was responding to...



If celebrating the birth of Jesus on dec 25th is a fraud he must have some other date in mind abi?

It was those Scriptures that appears irrelevant to you. They made no sense to you period.

truthislight:

idolatrouse worship is a sin QED.

And that is what birth day celebration is = idolatory.

Oga, i no understand this your 2-stage approach to answering my question o! i don't want to interpret wrongly so you don't come tomorrow and say that is not what you said. please be bold enough to say it loud and clear. i.e. celebrating Christ birthday is a sin QED. abi? please just say it and let lay this matter to rest.

What Does the Bible
Say About
Christmas? The Bible’s answer The Bible does not give the date of Jesus’ birth, nor
does it say that we should celebrate his birthday. As
McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia states: “The
observance of Christmas is not of divine
appointment, nor is it of NT [New Testament]
origin.” Instead, an examination of the history of Christmas
exposes its roots in pagan religious rites. The Bible
shows that we offend God if we try to worship him
in a way that he does not approve of.—Exodus 32:5-7. History of Christmas customs 1. Celebrating Jesus’ birthday: “The early Christians did not celebrate [Jesus’] birth
because they considered the celebration of
anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”—The
World Book Encyclopedia. 2. December 25: There is no proof that Jesus was born on that date. Church leaders likely
chose this date to coincide with pagan
festivals held on or around the winter
solstice. 3. Gift-giving, feasting, partying: The Encyclopedia Americana says: “Saturnalia, a
Roman feast celebrated in mid-December,
provided the model for many of the merry-
making customs of Christmas. From this
celebration, for example, were derived the
elaborate feasting, the giving of gifts, and the burning of candles.” The Encyclopædia
Britannica notes that “all work and business
were suspended” during Saturnalia. 4. Christmas lights: According to The Encyclopedia of Religion, Europeans
decorated their homes “with lights and
evergreens of all kinds” to celebrate the
winter solstice and to combat evil spirits. 5. Mistletoe, holly: “The Druids ascribed magical properties to the mistletoe in
particular. The evergreen holly was
worshiped as a promise of the sun’s
return.”—The Encyclopedia Americana. 6. Christmas tree: “Tree worship, common among the pagan Europeans, survived after
their conversion to Christianity.” One of the
ways in which tree worship survived is in the
custom of “placing a Yule tree at an entrance
or inside the house in the midwinter
holidays.”—Encyclopædia Britannica.

Zikkyy:

Please learn to read my posts and the post i am responding to. That way you understand what is being discussed.

Please learn to discern when your question, rhetorical or not, is being adressed.

Dec 25th as Christ's birth date is a fraud because it couldn't have been that month but around October, and it remains a fraud irrespective of whether one knows the exact date or not. No one knows the date, but clear evidence shows it couldn't have been during the depth of winter in December.

@Zikkyy, if you think the Pope just woke up one day and said...."YES" as from today Jesus Birthday will be celebrated on 25th december, then you lie!

If you know How far he went before this date was accepted by others of His brethren, you will not be looking for just say "YES OR NO" answer here.

Scripture has to be qouted when discussing Christ. Its not how you wants it, but How God already penned it down. None can change it even if they tempered.

If they had finaly succeeded in changing/modifying Gods word, we will not be here debating on the truth.
Many professing Christians still hold on to the truth.

Thank God for that.

honeric01:
The trees
the gift
the color
the "images used" during xmas celebration
the message it passes across (During xmas, more immoralities are committed than any other festival in the world)

Thank you sir. This is the kind of response i was expecting from my 'guys' but they have been avoiding me.

honeric01:
The trees
the gift

I hope you don't mind me asking sir, but is the use of gifts and trees strictly a pagan practice? is it wrong for Christians to give gifts ordinarily? is it also wrong for a Christian to use this same plants made by the Almighty assuming it was not for Christmas purpose?

I will tell you why i am asking even before you respond to save time. If these practices or items can be used ordinarily by Christians, then you cannot term it a pagan practice. For example just as the Jews made burnt offerings to the Almighty with their farm animals, same way Baal worshipers made burnt offering with same farm animal. Can we then say the use of animals is a pagan practice or the fact that it was being offered to Baal that makes it pagan?

honeric01:
the color
the "images used" during xmas celebration

Don't engage in Christmas celebrations that much to know much about the color and images (other than santa claus) maybe you can educate me here.

honeric01:
the message it passes across (During xmas, more immoralities are committed than any other festival in the world)

Christmas is probably the biggest festive event in the world today celebrated by Christians and non-Christians. We expect that level of immorality. don't have statistics but am sure up to 90% of celebrants are not true Christians, but should that make it wrong. even peeps get drunk when they come together to celebrate the passover that Christ instructed, does that make it pagan? people go to church for various reasons, a good number of them not acceptable to God, does that make it pagan.

Zikkyy:

Lol! but this should not stop you from answering my question na. I have difficulty progressing without an answer to my question.

Lol.....zikky I've always known you to be a sincere person........with all the facts presented I believe you should be able to answer the question you asked me..............you wan put me for tight corner I think??.........

truthislight:

if christ commanded for his death and not his birth why do you add/complete it for him?

Are you telling christ that he did not know what he was doing?

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

You are the one telling us that Christ commanded that we should not celebrate his birth, we don't find that in the scripture. so how can you say am adding to Christ command when we don't have the full details of his command?

truthislight:

do you know the meaning of the "word" lawlessness?

Yes, what you are doing is called lawlessness.

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have we cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you workers of lawlessness (Matthew 7:22-23).

Lol! you know how to dodge question sha

TroGunn:

A lot of the pagan practices associated with the celebration that got name change to Christmas has been listed and explained here already. Instead of asking to be spoonfed once again, why not list out all practices currently done under Christmas - Santa Claus, Christmas tree, christmas date, etc and research their origin.

It appears you are here to make trouble. In the spirit of the season, i think i will avoid you.

plappville:

What are you kidding me?? Scripture silent on birthday matters? this shows you have not been reading my post.
Scroll back those post you ignored provided scrptures that treated birthday issues!

I was referring to Christ birthday.

Just to add; the scripture did not treat birthday issues.

Zikkyy:

You are the one telling us that Christ commanded that we should not celebrate his birth, we don't find that in the scripture. so how can you say am adding to Christ command when we don't have the full details of his command?

We have all the details of God's instructions necessary for one to worship God acceptably in the Bible as is.

2 Timothy 3:16,17 - "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,  that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work ".

Christ's command to celebrate his death is enough to remember him and the enormous love he has for humans.

No additions, especially from pagan sources, are required.

Zikkyy:

Thank you sir. This is the kind of response i was expecting from my 'guys' but they have been avoiding me.



I hope you don't mind me asking sir, but is the use of gifts and trees strictly a pagan practice? is it wrong for Christians to give gifts ordinarily? is it also wrong for a Christian to use this same plants made by the Almighty assuming it was not for Christmas purpose?

I will tell you why i am asking even before you respond to save time. If these practices or items can be used ordinarily by Christians, then you cannot term it a pagan practice. For example just as the Jews made burnt offerings to the Almighty with their farm animals, same way Baal worshipers made burnt offering with same farm animal. Can we then say the use of animals is a pagan practice or the fact that it was being offered to Baal that makes it pagan?



Don't engage in Christmas celebrations that much to know much about the color and images (other than santa claus) maybe you can educate me here.



Christmas is probably the biggest festive event in the world today celebrated by Christians and non-Christians. We expect that level of immorality. don't have statistics but am sure up to 90% of celebrants are not true Christians, but should that make it wrong. even peeps get drunk when they come together to celebrate the passover that Christ instructed, does that make it pagan? people go to church for various reasons, a good number of them not acceptable to God, does that make it pagan.

I hope you know that false knowledge is worse off than ignorance? a little of this, a little of that is what spoils the brunch. bringing in a little of man made practices from different quarters into Christianity which is suppose to be a way of life is dangerous to what Christ came to represent on earth.

Santa claus, the flying elf, (what do they stand for? who are they? who's santa claus?) gifts from the north-pole (where is this north pole? what does these gifts represents? what is the symbolic/spiritual implication of these annual gifts brought from the "north-pole"? who's residing at this north-pole? maybe one of the fallen angels or the sun god who is likely to be satan himself or his right-hand angel?

We are discussing Christianity here where most of what you're suppose to do/act/say must represent Christ in all manner, Jesus's presence on earth was to abolish any similarities to the things of the world that is found in worshiping God, he came to show us the way, a way where we don't have to partake in the doctrines of men/traditions of men in order to deceive ourselves into thinking these doctrines are what draws us closer to God, rather the more we do them, the farther God's to us.

The more popular these festival has been, the worse the world is becoming, do you actually think Christmas is drawing anyone closer to God? look around you, more atrocities are committed during this festival and this is actually what the devil derive joy in.

Jesus never came to make anyone enjoy or party till dawn, he came to make the world hate those who choose to follow him, his disciples were never loved/fancied/liked by the world because they were always salient and was VISIBLY known to act/speak/do things different from the world.

Lastly, yes it makes it pagan, whatever draws people away from God is of the devil, whatever makes people fall by the wayside is of the devil, whatever makes people slip into sin is of the devil, this is why we must flee away from any appearance of sin which is of the devil. Christmas favors the devil and his host than any body else because during these period, his kingdom grows bigger. (Because it's colored to look like a "christianed thing does not make it christian"

Unless you can show me where the early Christians were seen celebrating it, it's nothing but a paganic culture. (Remember that BROAD is the way that leads to destruction (what everyone is doing even though they don't understand its origin), NARROW is the way that leads to paradise (few people would see the truth and stick to the truth).

I thank God for the poster of this thread, been able to look into few things which i never took into cognizant, May the grace of God abide in us all.

Zikkyy:

It appears you are here to make trouble. In the spirit of the season, i think i will avoid you.

Fair enough. I'm usually unflappable, but somehow I'm not feeling the cyclic questions you are asking. Perhaps that's my cue to leave this thread for now since am not here to make trouble.

Nice thread Plappville, good information here.

Christmas tree, winter solstice/signs of Heavens and paganism:

Jeremiah 10:1-4

American Standard Version (ASV)

1 Hear ye the word which Jehovah speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 thus saith Jehovah, Learn not the way of the nations, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the peoples are vanity; for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

honeric01:
I read your post clearly and my comment was a response to one of the questions you asked someone else, if you had taken time to read my questions, you'd have comprehended what the questions were for and the response to give.

I believe we both have communications issue then. My apologies if i read you wrong.

honeric01:
I asked you some questions, but you keep dodging, i said why did they choose the same day for the pagan festival to celebrate Jesus's birth and not the actual date he was suppose to be celebrated if truly they were trying to do it for Christ?

I don't dodge questions. You can see how i have taken time to go through all the posts. Maybe it was a belief that the question was not necessary and you have shown below that the question is not really necessary. It's the same reason i needed my 'guys' to stay focus, i kept reading a lot of irrelevant stuff. To answer your question; i truly don't know why they chose December. I read here that it was meant to capture the attention of the pagans holding a pagan feast at that same (December) time.

honeric01:
To your question, no it still won't be okay to celebrate it even in October before the early Christians never did, likewise Jesus while he was alive. so why celebrate someone's birth when he and his immediate disciples never did? I hope you understand what Jesus tagged the "traditions of men" while lambasting the scribes/pharisees?

Jesus and his disciples not engaging in an activity should not be the reason why we cannot perform such activity today. That's the part i don't agree with. It's easier if you can show that the act is a sin. That way we will not be having this argument. I am not a die hard fan of Christmas, am only here because my 'guys' have not been able to convince me that the act is a sin. You don't condemn an act based on personal views. I have asked a question here and i believe you have seen it, kindly prove that such act is not acceptable to God and i will be out of here. Is traditions of men (washing of hand before eating) a sin? What was Jesus issue with the so called tradition of men?

TroGunn:
You have been given answers to all your questions.

In your thoughts that is.

TroGunn:
You've been shown numerous verses indicating we should follow good examples of Christians in the Bible.

You were also shown Bible verse showing that worshipers of God should not copy pagan practices.

What are you looking for?

You have not told me what is pagan practice and what is Christian practice.

TroGunn:
In your opinion, it's ok for a Christian to use and sell cocaine, because it's not expressly condemned in the Bible, right?

hmmm, here i was thinking cocaine or its derivatives have been used by medical professionals for treatment. your problem is you have not been reading. Did i at anytime state that Christmas and it's associated activities is okay because it was not expressly condemned in the bible?

plappville:
Just to mention some of your errors on what worldliness is. Am sure if you are an African woman, you will understand that relaxing your hair has no worldliness
It helps you freely comb ur hair without pain. African women has surborn hair texture is not like the Western women.
If you conderm perming without a scriptural proof, i surposed you do not use body cream and soap as well. You will not need soap to wash you body and clothes and see how your interpretaion of seeing perming as worldliness is correct. Soap, cream oil, etc are all cosmetics product.

They all are made to clean you up and to make you look healthier. If you should generalise, then i can tell you that,
The present weather in the WEST request applying of body cream, you will scrash the hell out of your dry skin if you don't use body cream.
Are we now commiting sin to God for using body cream or soap? I can see You are misqouting the world.

WORLDLINESS.

Na wa oh. You are accusing somebody of something you are also guity of. Lol! e be like you don totally abandon my question sha

plappville:
What yes, My answers are base on the Scriptures, you can read, so you have the chioce to accept them or let them go for someone else that values Gods truth!

Na wa oh if you cannot say yes, on what basis then do you condemn the act of celebrating birthdays. it shows you are not sure, and it's proof your condemnation is not supported by the bible.

One thing i have shown here is that nobody has been able to prove that the act of celebrating Christmas will lead the celebrant to hell. What that means is that if done right (i.e. without the o.rgies and with a true focus on Christ) there are no issues with celebrating the birth of Christ. The other issue i wanted to resolve is that we should be able to differentiate what activities is actually pagan practice and what activities are not. The fact that an act was performed by a pagan does not make it a pagan practice. maybe we can still conclude that bit, then am out of here.

Zikkyy:

I was referring to Christ birthday.

Just to add; the scripture did not treat birthday issues.

Tell me say you no see my when i qoute you at 3:15pm? You saw it as long, how do u expect a just yes to ur question? Am i to answer you or the Scripture? See scripture with birthday records...again!

Birthday celebrations are mentioned in the Bible on two or three separate occasions and, in each case, something terrible occurred. I'm sure you did skiped this, i will recontruct it for you to see it clearly. These three accounts bear brief examination.
First ACC is in Genesis. The Egyptian king Pharaoh, celebrated his birthday by executing his chief baker (Gen. 40:1-23).
Note: This was during his birthday party, according to the interpretation God gave to Joseph. As the dream had foretold, the baker was hung at the party.

Second ACC is from the NT, Herod the tetrarch reluctantly ordered the beheading of John the Baptist (Matt. 14:3-11) make sure you notice verse 6: “But when Herod’s birthday was kept…” During the dancing and merry making at his "birthday party", Herod got carried away and eventualy made a promise that he did not want to keep.
As a result, a great servant of God lost his life. (John the Baptist).

I think there is a similar account in the book of Job, these parties were obviously not centered around any
kind of celebration related to God, or Job would not
have worried that his children may ve sinned during

these celebration feasts. He was not exactly sure what
was going on in their minds, but the very celebration of their birthdays triggered great concern in him (see verse:5). Apparently, during the birthday party, God allowed Satan to kill all 10 of Job’s childre through what appears to be a tornado (vs. 6-13, 18-19).

Job 1:4 The Bible says that Job’s seven sons “went and feasted in their houses, "every one his day"; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them”

If you read further in Job chapter 3 you will see a proof that these birthday celebrations displeased God. Because Job spend time cursing every aspect of the day of his birth.
Job words make plain and clear that there is nothing good about the day of a man’s birth.

plappville:
You are not after to accept the truth from the Scripture, you are just after keeping your pagan feast.
I thought you seek Scripture truth, but this thread has been exposing you gradually!

Lol! exposing me to what? ehn sister plappville? if you rely on what you read here to determine my true character, you don dive rock be that!

I don't know what truth you want me to accept. is it your version of the truth or ijawkid's version of the truth? What pagan feast am i keeping if on Christmas day i decided to spend some quality time with my family? You are yet to tell me what is pagan about peeps 'chopulating' specially prepared Christmas rice and chicken on December 25th Was the chicken purchased from a sango shrine?

Zikkyy:

Na wa oh if you cannot say yes, on what basis then do you condemn the act of celebrating birthdays. it shows you are not sure, and it's proof your condemnation is not supported by the bible.

One thing i have shown here is that nobody has been able to prove that the act of celebrating Christmas will lead the celebrant to hell. What that means is that if done right (i.e. without the o.rgies and with a true focus on Christ) there are no issues with celebrating the birth
of Christ. The other issue i wanted to resolve is that we should be able to differentiate what activities is actually pagan practice and what activities are not. The fact that an act was performed by a pagan does not make it a
pagan practice. maybe we can still conclude that bit, then am out of here.

You so much love Christmas, i can understand! You ve gotten much Scriptural proves of three negetive events of birthday and none positive, yet you say nothing is wrong in tagging Christ with this? @honeric01 presented some hited OT scriptures, you ignored them. Wetin u want again? Its a thing of chioce, carry on broo!

truthislight: What Does the Bible
Say About
Christmas? The Bible’s answer The Bible does not give the date of Jesus’ birth, nor
does it say that we should celebrate his birthday. As
McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia states: “The
observance of Christmas is not of divine
appointment, nor is it of NT [New Testament]
origin.” Instead, an examination of the history of Christmas
exposes its roots in pagan religious rites. The Bible
shows that we offend God if we try to worship him
in a way that he does not approve of.—Exodus 32:5-7. History of Christmas customs 1. Celebrating Jesus’ birthday: “The early Christians did not celebrate [Jesus’] birth
because they considered the celebration of
anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”—The
World Book Encyclopedia. 2. December 25: There is no proof that Jesus was born on that date. Church leaders likely
chose this date to coincide with pagan
festivals held on or around the winter
solstice. 3. Gift-giving, feasting, partying: The Encyclopedia Americana says: “Saturnalia, a
Roman feast celebrated in mid-December,
provided the model for many of the merry-
making customs of Christmas. From this
celebration, for example, were derived the
elaborate feasting, the giving of gifts, and the burning of candles.” The Encyclopædia
Britannica notes that “all work and business
were suspended” during Saturnalia. 4. Christmas lights: According to The Encyclopedia of Religion, Europeans
decorated their homes “with lights and
evergreens of all kinds” to celebrate the
winter solstice and to combat evil spirits. 5. Mistletoe, holly: “The Druids ascribed magical properties to the mistletoe in
particular. The evergreen holly was
worshiped as a promise of the sun’s
return.”—The Encyclopedia Americana. 6. Christmas tree: “Tree worship, common among the pagan Europeans, survived after
their conversion to Christianity.” One of the
ways in which tree worship survived is in the
custom of “placing a Yule tree at an entrance
or inside the house in the midwinter
holidays.”—Encyclopædia Britannica.

Oga truthislight, why do you keep repeating what we already know.Just answer the simple question, and lets close this case.

Zikkyy:

Lol! exposing me to what? ehn sister plappville? if you rely on what you read here to determine my true character, you don dive rock be that!

I don't know what truth you want me to accept. is it your version of the truth or ijawkid's version of the truth? What pagan feast am i keeping if on Christmas day i decided to spend some quality time with my family? You are yet to tell me what is pagan about peeps 'chopulating' specially prepared Christmas rice and

chicken on December 25th Was the chicken
purchased from a sango shrine?

Enjoy ur feast, i have presented the Scriptures i know
that treated Birthday. They hold no water to you...so enjoy like Herod and Pheroah their example is a choice ..

TroGunn:

Please learn to discern when your question, rhetorical or not, is being adressed.

Dec 25th as Christ's birth date is a fraud because it couldn't have been that month but around October, and it remains a fraud irrespective of whether one knows the exact date or not. No one knows the date, but clear evidence shows it couldn't have been during the depth of winter in December.

Oga, you are way off target.

Zikkyy:

Lol! exposing me to what? ehn sister plappville? if you rely on what you read here to determine my true character, you don dive rock be that!

I don't know what truth you want me to accept. is it your version of the truth or ijawkid's version of the truth? What pagan feast am i keeping if on Christmas day i decided to spend some quality time with my family? You are yet to tell me what is pagan about peeps 'chopulating' specially prepared Christmas rice and chicken on December 25th Was the chicken purchased from a sango shrine?

Smh!!!!................is the chicken the issue or the festival itself..............zikky you are not being sincere I have to tell you.........after exposing the date of birth of Jesus as a fraud you still press forward that we give you a suitable date for you to celebrate it,even when Jesus never begged you to.......can't you be content with the date of Jesus' death........??......this is what happens when we lean on our own understanding and shoving scriptural principles aside.....I hope you've read serrialinks reply on the use of trees in festivities......it had its origin in paganism...........now just realize that the xmas tree hanging in your living room has nothing to do with Jesus.............like I said earlier and would say again xmas is a big fraud and an insult to our Lord............

Celebrate the xmas for all you want,but don't mention Jesus in it......Jesus has never been part of xmas.........
____________________________

And please I have no version of truth.......no go put me for wahala o.............