SELFWORTH:

Here we go again.

Liked I said, I don't expect many to understand what I am saying especially those who sit on TV in their cosy offices evangelising or Jet flying City ministers.

Please test it this Sunday and approach a demon possessed with your iPad and if at all you survive , you would not be able to speak let alone tell the story.

LMAO!!

Nice

Dont cross it . Open it for all to see abi? Thats what they want.

Goshen360:

See as I dey laf you in tongues.... You for carry 20-50 bibles because you want to read from 20-50 translations...and start/continue to flip pages...

I knew it! I'm too old school I carry my bible o! Na oga the lazy one with iPad .... I pretend I no know him sef I like technology but God own different!

SELFWORTH:

Uhh!

You are either a Christian or you are not. There is no in between.

God is not interested in all the material things . Whether you take IPad to church or go with your scrapbook . There are things that you can do with the paperback holy bible that you cannot do with your iPad gadget but I expect only a true worshiper of God will understand this.

God knows human beings worship all these material things . He looks into the HEART OF MEN.This is where many miss it.

A "Christian " who calls his fellow brethren "holier than thou" and "assholes" to me sounds very far away from God.

By their fruits we shall know.

the people you're addressing dont claim to be christians.

as for the one blabbing about ipad, he just wants nlers to know he has seen ipad, that's all.

Cajetan speaks: I was enjoying your comment till I read your last sentense. Upholding african values does not make you archaic or inferior to anybody.

not inferior but I said that bit because with the civilization and mordenization once you don't follow the new trend you are termed old school,archaic,ancient and belonging to the dark ages. Hahahahaha but it doesn't bother me at all.

auchs: Dont cross it . Open it for all to see abi? Thats what they want.

Wear a tight or panty-hose...... don't go commando to church ! Cover up dammit

Now we are going to see what the Scripture says on tradition of men and of God. It may be long because Scriptures will have to explain Scripture.
Traditions from/of God are in accord with His word, and are recorded in, scripture. While Traditions of men are not supported by the Scripture and this nullify the Scripture.

Did the Scripture gave traditions of God? YES:

2Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and "not after the tradition which he received of us".

2Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
AS PLAINLY SHOWED HERE, WE DID RECIEVED SOME TRADITIONS FROM CHRIST AND THE APOSTLES!

1 Peter 1:18-19, "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"


We are going to see that Jesus used only the Scripture in settling every matter that was brought before Him.
He secured His arguments with His opponents by saying "Have you not read?" The Scripture reveals that Jesus held ONLY what is written in the book.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it "not written in your law", I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

When He disputed the Pharisees on their high view of tradition see: Mark 7:13
when He was tested by the Sadduces concerning the resurrection, He continue qouting the Scripture:

Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

When He was confronted by the devil, Jesus responded three times(3*): "It is written" (Matt. 4:4-10).

The word of God says, in severally pages of the Bible, that our faith is not to rest in human wisdom.
That we should not use human wisdom or reasoning to tamper with His word! You are not to add your own thoughts
in “your wisdom” or to ‘correct’ or subtract from His thoughts. This is a point @Goshen360 was trying to make, If you must correct in the body of Christ
Why not lie hands on the Scripture. It's a very serious thing to violate God's word by holding so much on traditions of men.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, [b] lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Deut 4:2 [b] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. A strong warning right from the old till Christ second comming. "DO NOT ADD TO IT"! [/b]This is a very serious thing
for any man in his own wisdom, to subtract from or to add anything to the word of God.

Reve 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 [b] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

We have seen that Jesus did not add traditions outside of what was recorded but that He made the scriptures to be understood by His disciples.

Christ and His disciples expounded on the OT, Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.(Luke 24:32,31, John 5:38-47, I Corinthians 14:37) This is not Adding to the scripture.

Extra-biblical traditions means ADDING some things that are nt found in the scriptures at all.
Those who do so need to heed the warnings of tampering- -be it adding or subtracting. The ideal of telling someone how to sit or stand should be backed up with the Scripture.
If Christ had failed to use Scripture for every issue that was brought to Him, He couldn't have given perfect replies to His opponets.

The Church are to do thesame, take example from Jesus and His Apostles. If there was a reason why the Church Told the OP not to cross her legs, then They should have
used the scripture to explain and not by traditions outside of what is written in scripture.

The Church should disregard men tradition for Scripture. So much to say on this topic. As this is one of the things eating up the Church.

MEN TRADITION!

piero2u:
This is the problem with women, right from time they can't obey simple instructions.
GOD: Don't eat of the fruit of the forbidden
tree.
EVE: why shouldn't I eat it, why is it
forbidden? It doesn't make sense

Eve eats the fruit and the rest is history.
To cut the long story short, DON'T CROSS YOUR LEGS IN CHURCH.

Keep women out of this, this is a habit for both sex, btw, if the man ADAM that seeks a helper had stayed
close to His helper, would the serpent had gotten the chance to decieve the woman?
You peole like accusing women here and then. Christ came to this world was possible without a man.

Jesus ressurected, it was a woman that sew him first. All this make no sense to you?
why referring to ur ADAM AND EVE old school story? Mind you, it was not a woman that betrayed Jesus.

Please tell us what the scripture says on crossing of legs jare!

Goshen360: This topic can only be argued 'scripturally' or 'logically'.

[size=16pt]Scripturally, we do not have anything against someone siting and crossing legs while in worship place. If a man does it, it might not be an issue but because it's a woman, now it's an issue. This is nothing but tradition - that is, if it can be done in one part of the world but cannot be done in another part of the world. That is not the gospel - whatever you can't preach anytime, anywhere is not for the universal church. Jesus and the Apostles warned against traditions of men.[/size]

New International Version (©1984)
You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." - Mark 7:8

New International Version (©1984)
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. - Colossians 2:8

New International Version (©1984)
I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. - Galatians 1:14


Logically, what is the explanation that crossing legs in worship place(s) is wrong?

1. Is it that it offends another person? If it offends another person, how?
2. Is it that the lady who crosses her legs closes up properly or opens up carelessly? which one?

If we are going to explain why it is wrong to cross legs in worship places logically, then we must explain or give the reason(s).

Thank you for this very truth, If everyone can rely only on the Scripture traditions, Men Traditions won't be growing stronger each day in the Church.
You hit the point seriously, It matters alot because the OP happens to be a female.

tomzman:
You know that not every issue is expresslly treated in the Bible. Apostle Paul admonishes us to do things with the consideration of the next person in mind so as not to make him fall. I personally have no issues with it but generally, In this part of the world, it is very difficult to separate culture from christianity and here, crossing of legs in public is seen as bad. So, anyone who looks around in Church and sees the OP crossing her legs would have uncomfortable thoughts and feelings about her. That moment, his mind has drifted off the service into something else. So, for the sake of that and so as not to attract unnecessary attention to herself, I believe the OP should try and avoid it.

I agree with you, but will it be a problem if it was to be a man that crossed his legs? We are taking this personally as Africans.
I can understand the culture traditions of our fathers but as Christians, we are supposed to follow biblical examples.
The things which are not penned are not Gods command. Scripture treated dressing mode, eating etc etc..if how
we sit and stand should be a case, It would have been treated as well

I wouldn't believed crossing of legs in the Church would be a case until i saw this thread....

1 Peter 1:18-19, "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from
your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"

May 5: so are you saying a persons that crosses their legs while in church are not well train

No, i was saying that home training should be done at home not in the church.

Crossing of legs when sitting doesn't make one look disobedient.

Does every good morals and respectful attitude expected from any church goer / believer has to be printed in the Bible? It's not written in the Bible opptildool ! We get that ....

But does it has to be proven before she obeys the rule ?

If you go to any club ....do you ask the bouncers why they have to check your bags before they let you in?

If that's how they want it .... then so be it period!

Maybe it's more of etiquette, just like table manners...

Why do I say 'excuse me' when I sneeze?

Maybe the Church she is attending thinks otherwise, and would rather not want you to cross your legs....


A lot of posts bashed the Church as being unreasonable and infringing on her right, I don't see it that way, I see it as a way of implementing manners.


If she isn't comfortable with it, she should leave. You don't demand explanation for everything, especially in places where no one forces you to attend.

Crossing of legs in church may be wrong based on the norm in your church, all you need do is to follow the instructions and behave as accepted there. Most churches may accept crossing of legs and ladies wearing trousers . It is all about the instructions where you worship, and this is why most pple change churches if they don't get an explanation for certain rules. Respect God by honoring the authority He has put in place- even the Ushers. We are in the Era of Grace that's why we take instructions lightly, and don't forget that the Priest or Reverend spiritually understands things you don't, even in your apeearance you can send a wrong signal. Have you experience a court room before? Go there and try to be comfortable in some way then u'll know the consequence of orderliness.

plappville: The bible did not tell us how to sit, stand, or lie or walk. But It says every wrong doings is a sin, and not all sin leads to condemnation. If you feel its wrong you should stop it. But I think we should try to know if this isa tradition.

Health wise, it is not advisable especially for women to cross their legs for some of these reasons: Poor circulation: it is said that this can interfere with heart problems and cause pain in the legs. Hip stability; The hips have a natural aliment. crosing your legs is not natural. This can cause wear and tear on the joint. Back pain: can cause lower back pain. The spine has three natural curves and when you sit crossed legged some tend to shift their body weight taking the spine out of ailment also.

Crossing of leg is a habit. Some people feel more comfortable doing it. Others no. Some believed it's polite. If we look at the side effect according to Doctors, its best to stop such habit that could damage one's health.

Well explained.Correct.

Isn't it making the "subject matter" more conspicuous?

Any form of sitin down dat wil expos ur centa of calveture in d church is nt only wrong, bt is taboo. So, mind d way u cros ur legs 2 avoid atentio

If she like...make she bRing mat sleep for church!

plappville: The bible did not tell us how to sit, stand, or lie or walk. But It says every wrong doings is a sin, and not all sin leads to condemnation. If you feel its wrong you should stop it. But I think we should try to know if this isa tradition.

Health wise, it is not advisable especially for women to cross their legs for some of these reasons: Poor circulation: it is said that this can interfere with heart problems and cause pain in the legs. Hip stability; The hips have a natural aliment. crosing your legs is not natural. This can cause wear and tear on the joint. Back pain: can cause lower back pain. The spine has three natural curves and when you sit crossed legged some tend to shift their body weight taking the spine out of ailment also.

Crossing of leg is a habit. Some people feel more comfortable doing it. Others no. Some believed it's polite. If we look at the side effect according to Doctors, its best to stop such habit that could damage one's health.

We now have a medical angle to the problem. Is it every time you cross your leg that a particular usher corrected you or every usher anytime you do it?. If the former it may be a personal opinion of the said usher but if the later it may be against the teaching of the church.You do not need to quarry the source. I always like to obey church ushers.[b][/b]

tpia@:
everything does not have to have a logical explanation, and neither are you entitled to one all the time.

learn to follow simple instructions even if you dont agree with them, as long as they're not inimical to your being.

I am giving u simple instruction to delete your Nairaland account , please dont ask me why, because u arent entitled to a logical explanation and its a simple instruction which isnt inimical to your bieng. i hope u understand.

people like you are called follow follow......how can you be asked to do something and u dont know why, but because it doesnt affect your existence , u shud just do it, and asking why now becomes a problem....pls have a second thought

Jobabori: We now have a medical angle to the problem. Is it every time you cross your leg that a particular usher corrected you or every usher anytime you do it?. If the former it may be a personal opinion of the said usher but if the later it may be against the teaching of the church.You do not need to quarry the source. I always like to obey church ushers.[b][/b]

I think what she wants to know is the spiritual angle, why is it wrong in church.....u can keep following the ushers order, even if u are been asked to slap the pastor, but u shud always have a reason for evry action.people dont just talk or act

Okp1975: Crossing of legs in church may be wrong based on the norm in your church, all you need do is to follow the instructions and behave as accepted there. Most churches may accept crossing of legs and ladies wearing trousers . It is all about the instructions where you worship, and this is why most pple change churches if they don't get an explanation for certain rules. Respect God by honoring the authority He has put in place- even the Ushers. We are in the Era of Grace that's why we take instructions lightly, and don't forget that the Priest or Reverend spiritually understands things you don't, even in your apeearance you can send a wrong signal. Have you experience a court room before? Go there and try to be comfortable in some way then u'll know the consequence of orderliness.

thats in the court, cant some just give a sensible explanation other than just follow the instructions, ALL SHE WANTS IS , IS IT WRONG, what if puting the legs down wud make the next person feel uncomformatable in a way........DOCTRINES

edreesabiodun: See the problem I have with religion? Dogmatic bull!! How can you ask someone not to do something without a logical explanation and you expect them to take you seriously?

it won't be called religion if there was a logical explanation for everything.

Uwakuwak: if it right no one would correct you,

Wrong answer! Who defines what is RIGHT OR WRONG in your life?

Sitting nd crossing your leg is a sign of pride. And u can't b doing that in d presence of the almighty

Its funny how people keep saying "if that is what they (the church) wants, just do it" or "if you can't obey the rules, just leave". Smh.
This is exactly why some reasonable peeps are losing interest in church.
It reminds me of the circumcision controversy among 1st century christians. Some took it upon themselves to be the church and dictate to others how to worship God and that they had to get circumcised first before God can approve them.

Centuries ago, the (catholic) church burnt people alive for owning a Bible. Just to please them or to save their own lives, many must have discarded theirs or avoided owning one in the first place.
Yet some peeps claim the church is always right and you must not question anything.

At times it doesnt hurt to use your head. Being religious doesnt make one a robot.

Please stop calling the op rebellious. As far as I know, she is one of the few sincere christians there are. A rebelious person disregards laws outright. She simply asked questions from a sincere heart.

If asking questions is being rebellious, it is better to be rebellious to the church while obeying God than be a two-faced hypocrite: pleasing the church in matters of crossing legs, yet fornicating or committing any other serious sin without batting an eyelid.
Enough said.

I uncontiously do that as well and was onece corrected and I heeded to it. But I 've been thinking, if there is any thing I should not do in the Church (the precence of God) I should't do any where at all, even in my room when I'm alone. Is there any place that has no God's presence? While praying? Yes, I need to get into a suitable mood. Well, its just my personal opinion. But we need sincerity in our worship.

An interesting thread! How I wish God was
around to moderate it! Polarizing views
can be interesting to read in matters like this.

johngreggk: I uncontiously do that as well and was onece corrected and I heeded to it. But I 've been thinking, if there is any thing I should not do in the Church (the precence of God) I should't do any where at all, even in my room when I'm alone. Is there any place that has no God's presence? While praying? Yes, I need to get into a suitable mood. Well, its just my personal opinion. But we need sincerity in our worship.

Well said! Many churches and their leaders promote hypocrisy. That's the reason for the kind of christianity we see. Many people believe God sees them only on sunday when they are in church, so that is the only place where one shouldnt do certain things.

young lady what is wrong is that the bible say honor your father and mother so that your days will be long. If your mom say keep ur leg straight, then do like wise. Remember wat an elder sees sit the young one cant see it climbing a tree. Obey is better than curiousity. Gbam.

PHIPEX: I laugh whenever I hear people insist that everything must be shown in Black and white in the Bible. Can anybody tell me where the Bible forbids smoking in the Church? Can anyone show me where the Bible say that it a sin to eat while the Service is going on? If we want to be logical we will certainly find 1001 reasons to do so and still claim freedom. But God gave us our conscience and the Holy Spirit to direct us in certain things that are not explicitly stated in the Bible.

@OP, you may not see anything wrong with what you are doing but LOVE is not necessarily about yourself but about others around you. If people around you are uncomfortable with your dressing or behaviour, it'll be wise to consider them especially in the Church. How much more when the Church Authority frowns at your behaviour, in such case it'll be better to obey than to Sacrifice but if you feel they are wrong, it will be better to find another church where your behaviours are not frowned at because as long as you remain there God will see it as disobedience.

Ec 5:1 ¶ Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.

God bless you.

Mightyodi: young lady what is wrong is that the bible say honor your father and mother so that your days will be long. If your mom say keep ur leg straight, then do like wise. Remember wat an elder sees sit the young one cant see it climbing a tree. Obey is better than curiousity. Gbam.

Our people say that he who asks questions would never lose his way.
Curiosity is better than blind obedience any day. You guys should stop discouraging sincere questions. Its not christlike. Jesus did not condemn anyone for asking questions.