Oahray: Our people say that he who asks questions would never lose his way.
Curiosity is better than blind obedience any day. You guys should stop discouraging sincere questions. Its not christlike. Jesus did not condemn anyone for asking questions.

Every place and peoples I know have one rule or the other that describe their culture including all those who post on this thread including the poster herself. Some require you to remove your shoes before stepping into their living room, some have furniture in their living room but if you want their audience you may have to sit on the mat with them. All sorts. When I was growing up and stayed at my Uncle's one summer, touching of the walls was a taboo, making loud noises, etc, etc. Every one has rules including churches. Now for me to question the rules in every bank, gas station, airline, restaurant and church I go will simply be madness. I may chase every reason but I have better things to do with my time. And that's why the bible gives us several passages that paints a picture like this:

Go to places you are comfortable with as led by your conscience. If you can bear it stay, if you can't leave but by any means as long as what you don't find uncomfortable with is not a sin (according to your conscience) do not oppose it for you will offend others which is not right in the sight of God. Period.

plappville:

HOW? Is this the Scripture or Nigeria tradition? Tell us, we may learn this Scripture from you

Sure, its scriptural, the scripure says in the book of 1 Corinthians 14:40 and I quote
'Let all things be done decently and in order'
Common sense will tell us what is descent and orderly.
And I believe that every human being with a good upbringing knows that crossing of leg in the public is highly undecent and unethical.
I stand to be corrected.

Reference:

Every place and peoples I know have one rule or the other that describe their culture including all those who post on this thread including the poster herself. Some require you to remove your shoes before stepping into their living room, some have furniture in their living room but if you want their audience you may have to sit on the mat with them. All sorts. When I was growing up and stayed at my Uncle's one summer, touching of the walls was a taboo, making loud noises, etc, etc. Every one has rules including churches. Now for me to question the rules in every bank, gas station, airline, restaurant and church I go will simply be madness. I may chase every reason but I have better things to do with my time. And that's why the bible gives us several passages that paints the picture like this:

Go to places you are comfortable with as led by your conscience. If you can bear it stay, if you can't leave but by any means as long as what you don't find uncomfortable with is not a sin (according to your conscience) do not oppose it for you will offend others which is not right in the sight of God. Period.

First of all, you do not seem to realize that questioning something isnt the same as disregarding it altogether. It simply means wanting to understand why something should be done that way.

If you truly read what the op wrote, you'd have seen that crossing her legs is something reflex and she obeys when the usher asks her to change her posture. Still, she wants to know why. That is what a reasonable person does. How does that relate to the bank, restaurant, or shoes in people's home examples you cited? Infact, understanding a rule makes it easier to obey.

The fact that you obey does not mean you shouldnt seek understanding. That is why we are intelligent creatures. That's what differentiates us from animals, our ability to reason.

Ericsdm55: This grammar thing sef. Just passing....

no mind us, no bi exactly grammar thing. Its more of history between the two of us.

ignis:
Sure, its scriptural, the scripure says in the book of 1 Corinthians 14:40 and I quote
'Let all things be done decently and in order'
Common sense will tell us what is descent and orderly.
And I believe that every human being with a good upbringing knows that crossing of leg in the public is highly undecent and unethical.
I stand to be corrected.

A picture is better than a thousand words
[img]http://fellowshipofminds.files./2010/10/obama-view.jpg[/img]
(1) These are human beings.
(2) One of these 'indecent' people doing something as 'unethical' as crossing legs is the President of America.
(3) This pic wasnt taken in private. Infact this encounter was televised.
Is that correction enough?

tpia@:
just learn to take correction and stop rebelling at everything like a spoilt brat, geez.

ti tara e ni won so fun e!



there's nothing to explain!

bullshit...the only time i crossed my legs in church while dosing off. The worden shook me so severely and left me alone after i gave him one wicked up and down "i will kill u look, if u disturb me again" look.

If she crosses her legs in a Catholic church in the US....would anyone tell her anything?..... in Lagos?...Italy? ... or God isn't present in those churches? Like soneone said before it is a cultural thing and has nothing to do with Christianity. If it is disrespectful to cross legs in the presence of elders then so be it whether in church or an office and that's what she should be told instead of all the bs........and we still wonder why young people bail out of the Catholic church. Church rules rule.... by force.

Oahray: A picture is better than a thousand words
[img]http://fellowshipofminds.files./2010/10/obama-view.jpg[/img]
(1) These are human beings.
(2) One of these 'indecent' people doing something as 'unethical' as crossing legs is the President of America.
(3) This pic wasnt taken in private. Infact this encounter was televised.
Is that correction enough?

Bro, we all know that the western culture is bastardized and highly indecent.
imagine this scenario, when you go to most official and social gathering in America, most of the ladies dress almost nude exposing their private parts. Thr religious gathering is not even an exception. The fact remains that what might be decent in their culture might not be decent in ours. Am not saying that we should incoporate culture into religion. The fact is we all have concience and know when we are doing what is right and what is wrong. Though often times, we tend to justify our wrong actions either by comparison or excuses. These does not make the wrong action right in anyway.
Heavenly race is a personal race and not a collective race, so let's not compare our actions with that of others.

Goshen360: This topic can only be argued 'scripturally' or 'logically'.

Scripturally, we do not have anything against someone siting and crossing legs while in worship place. If a man does it, it might not be an issue but because it's a woman, now it's an issue. This is nothing but tradition - that is, if it can be done in one part of the world but cannot be done in another part of the world. That is not the gospel - whatever you can't preach anytime, anywhere is not for the universal church. Jesus and the Apostles warned against traditions of men.

New International Version (©1984)
You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." - Mark 7:8

New International Version (©1984)
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. - Colossians 2:8

New International Version (©1984)
I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. - Galatians 1:14


Logically, what is the explanation that crossing legs in worship place(s) is wrong?

1. Is it that it offends another person? If it offends another person, how?
2. Is it that the lady who crosses her legs closes up properly or opens up carelessly? which one?

If we are going to explain why it is wrong to cross legs in worship places logically, then we must explain or give the reason(s).

who made you the judge/arbiter to limit parameters? how about contextually for instance? you're the one forcing the issue to be a gender issue, and dragging it as a matter of eternal life. There is nothing wrong with tradition except it opposes the Word of God, or if it is exalted above God. you've only punctuated your ideas with Bible passages and attempted to force it to say what it doesn't.

[quote author=Image123]
who made you the judge/arbiter to limit parameters? how about contextually for instance? you're the one forcing the issue to be a gender issue, and dragging it as a matter of eternal life. There is nothing wrong with tradition except it opposes the Word of God,

you seem to support a lot of tradition that opposes the word of GOD, no wonder.

"You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." - Mark 7:8

SELFWORTH:

Uhh!

You are either a Christian or you are not. There is no in between.

God is not interested in all the material things . Whether you take IPad to church or go with your scrapbook . There are things that you can do with the paperback holy bible that you cannot do with your iPad gadget but I expect only a true worshiper of God will understand this.

God knows human beings worship all these material things . He looks into the HEART OF MEN.This is where many miss it.

A "Christian " who calls his fellow brethren "holier than thou" and "assholes" to me sounds very far away from God.

By their fruits we shall know.

and ur point is?

Sisi_Kill:

Things like what?

my thoughts exactly

ignis:
Bro, we all know that the western culture is bastardized and highly indecent.
imagine this scenario, when you go to most official and social gathering in America, most of the ladies dress almost nude exposing their private parts. Thr religious gathering is not even an exception. The fact remains that what might be decent in their culture might not be decent in ours. Am not saying that we should incoporate culture into religion. The fact is we all have concience and know when we are doing what is right and what is wrong. Though often times, we tend to justify our wrong actions either by comparison or excuses. These does not make the wrong action right in anyway.
Heavenly race is a personal race and not a collective race, so let's not compare our actions with that of others.

crap! I knew you would come up with some silly explanation. In your prevoius post, you said

And I believe that every human being with a good upbringing knows that crossing of leg in the public is highly undecent and unethical.

that was why I put up the pic. Instead of you to admit, you are twisting words. At least you just agreed that ethics is subjective.

Tell me, if comparison is wrong, why did you start it in the first place with the unguarded fallacy about ethics and common sense, by saying decent peeps do not cross their legs?
Over righteousness, that's the problem with many people, and blind fanaticism too.

You must think africans are more decent than the white counterparts, don't you? I wonder how u'd explain the near nud.ity or females in the Calabar carnival, or the traditional zulu dressing for women in their festivals, or the many other African examples I wouldnt mind listing if you so wish.

When you do not know something, keep quiet about it. Crossing legs is not unethical or indecent. Stop trying to set standards for God!

Ify Angela:
and ur point is?

He is so on point.
If you can not get the points he made, them am afraid you might have to enroll for an english lesson.

drnoel:

bullshit...the only time i crossed my legs in church while dosing off. The worden shook me so severely and left me alone after i gave him one wicked up and down "i will kill u look, if u disturb me again" look.

See the kind of misfits who are in churches.

This is what church members have to deal with.

Oahray: A picture is better than a thousand words
[img]http://fellowshipofminds.files./2010/10/obama-view.jpg[/img]
(1) These are human beings.
(2) One of these 'indecent' people doing something as 'unethical' as crossing legs is the President of America.
(3) This pic wasnt taken in private. Infact this encounter was televised.
Is that correction enough?

When in rome, do as the romans, which is what obama did here?

ignis:
He is so on point.
If you can not get the points he made, them am afraid you might have to enroll for an english lesson.

nd ur point is?

tpia@:



When in rome, do as the romans, which is what obama did here?

If you read the post I posted that pic as a reply to, you wouldnt have posted this.
I simply corrected his statement about "every human being with good upbringing". Is Obama not a human being?
If I got you right, I'd wish to correct you. Obama didnt 'do as the Romans'. He is the Caesar of that 'Rome'! Looks like you dnt know what it means to be the American President. Any wrong action doesnt excape public scrutiny and criticism.

Literacy shouldnt be restricted to the ability to read only.
Smh4u

Goshen360:

With or without any 'logical' or scriptural reason(s)?

frosbel: [/quote][quote author=Goshen360]

With or without any 'logical' or scriptural reason(s)?

reality is not always logical or subject to logic. frosb and co, how does not crossing the legs oppose God or His Word?

plappville:

Tell us how is it a way of a Christian not to cross leg? Ur argument should be base on the Scripture! Is it wrong to displease oneself to please others?

you ought to lay down your life for your brethren, that's Scripture. So it is scriptural to displease yourself to please your church members, who are indeed your brethren. also, like I stated, the op needs love, meekness and temperance, all basic fruits of been born of the Spirit.

plappville:

This is a Nigeria tradition, not from the scripture.

its not limited to just Nigeria. i think JeSoul mentioned how a white man talked against it while she was in France or so. Anyway even if it's a Nigerian or African thing, nothing spoil. Each people have their etiquette and culture, Paul talked of being all things to all men. I strongly say it was cases like this that he alluded to. I'm not talking of compromise to sin, its not an issue of sin but of what's right or appropriate. The Yoruba have their traditional way of greeting elders and rulers. The same goes for other tribes. They have cultures and traditions in marriage, wedding, burial etc that are harmless and not ungodly.

Image123:
you ought to lay down your life for your brethren, that's Scripture. So it is scriptural to displease yourself to please your church members, who are indeed your brethren. also, like I stated, the op needs love, meekness and temperance, all basic fruits of been born of the Spirit.

"the op needs..." and you don't? Another self righteous pretender. When was the last time you were selfless for others? You don't have to answer, you'd likely lie anyway.

The bible never said YOU HAVE TO lay your life for others. It simply says you should love others enough to lay your life for them. Its not the same thing.

Stop trying to paint a human tradition as something from God. Just say that is what the pastor or religious leader wants, and because he is a demi-god, he should be obeyed without any objection.
That is closer to the truth than these piles of unscriptural trash you guys are disguising as support.

Image123:
its not limited to just Nigeria. i think JeSoul mentioned how a white man talked against it while she was in France or so. Anyway even if it's a Nigerian or African thing, nothing spoil. Each people have their etiquette and culture, Paul talked of being all things to all men. I strongly say it was cases like this that he alluded to. I'm not talking of compromise to sin, its not an issue of sin but of what's right or appropriate. The Yoruba have their traditional way of greeting elders and rulers. The same goes for other tribes. They have cultures and traditions in marriage, wedding, burial etc that are harmless and not ungodly.

something reasonable and truthful at last. Its simply the tradition of that church.
The op asked if it was wrong. This is not a bad answer, although it doesnt explain why crossing legs is wrong. Its way better than self-righteously condemning her as rebellious or lacking the fruits of the spirit, as you guys have been doing.

Oahray: "the op needs..." and you don't? Another self righteous pretender. When was the last time you were selfless for others? You don't have to answer, you'd likely lie anyway.

The bible never said YOU HAVE TO lay your life for others. It simply says you should love others enough to lay your life for them. Its not the same thing.

Stop trying to paint a human tradition as something from God. Just say that is what the pastor or religious leader wants, and because he is a demi-god, he should be obeyed without any objection.
That is closer to the truth than these piles of unscriptural trash you guys are disguising as support.

and where did i say or imply that others or myself do not need the fruits of the spirit? If she displayed those fruits, we won't be having this thread from her. i gave out my food today if that counts for selflessness, so what of you mr.judge? Go and read 1John3:16 and cure your brazen ignorance.

Image123:
and where did i say or imply that others or myself do not need the fruits of the spirit? If she displayed those fruits, we won't be having this thread from her . i gave out my food today if that counts for selflessness, so what of you mr.judge? Go and read 1John3:16 and cure your brazen ignorance.

why harp on her needing it when you know we all need it? Why call me a judge when you just judged the op with the bolded statement?

So the op asking a question about something she doesnt understand means she lacks the fruit of the spirit?
Mehn... I am done talking to you and your likes.
The hypocrisy in some christians is sickening. Smh.

Sometimes I don't understand the way some of us reason. When it is expedient, we say we base everything we do on the bible, but when its not we say well, just follow what you are told.
What is wrong with a woman crossing her legs in church? As some very sensible people have noted, is it not better if she crosses a her leg than to 'expose' herself?
I think the important question is where did this tradition come from and who started it? Just because some church leader (perhaps hundreds of years ago), who had little or no respect for women, found it offensive for a woman to sit and cross her leg before him does not mean we should continue to condone such nonsense. I agree that it is a tradition handed down from generation to some churches, but I think its high time we let it go. Remember women standing in the alter used to be a big sin? so was women wearing trousers (before you take an issue with this, ask yourself how a trouser that covers properly is worse than a skirt that can easily expose you). If you want to cross your leg, please go ahead and do so, it takes nothing away from your salvation, which is by the way, personal. Sometimes its okay to question absurd customs and traditions, so that people can start to reflect on it and then likely see the absurdity it it. I don't think we (Christians) in Nigeria that disfavor leg crossing in churches are more "righteous" than other churches in the west that do not care if you cross your leg in church.

Perhaps it would do us (Nigerians and perhaps all Africans) a little good if this generation start asking questions about the way our fathers/mothers come to this present, in the words of Patrick Obahiagbon, political, social, and religious quagmire. Just a thought!

I am a worker in mthe church. Sometime last year, Someone called my attention to a lady that crossed her legs inside the church. My reaction was, "would you rather have her open her legs wide for worshipped to see through?" it was not up to 3 minutes before over 5 people told me the same thing. Of cause, I told them there is nothing wrong with that. I told them as a matter of fact, girls are advised to cross their legs to guard their vital areas. Since them, I have never been told that. Nobody also told me any reason it should not be done.

Image123:
no mind us, no bi exactly grammar thing. Its more of history between the two of us.

You this trouble finder.....

Oahray: "the op needs..." and you don't? Another self righteous pretender. When was the last time you were selfless for others? You don't have to answer, you'd likely lie anyway.

The bible never said YOU HAVE TO lay your life for others. It simply says you should love others enough to lay your life for them. Its not the same thing.

Stop trying to paint a human tradition as something from God. Just say that is what the pastor or religious leader wants, and because he is a demi-god, he should be obeyed without any objection.
That is closer to the truth than these piles of unscriptural trash you guys are disguising as support.

Thank you my broda, "thier rules are but rules of men", this tradition is not practice worldwide, Why only in Nigeria Churches we have this case?
We are now the purest and the most decent people in the world .....!

Bokoharam: I am a worker in mthe church. Sometime last year, Someone called my attention to a lady that crossed her legs inside the church. My reaction was, "would you rather have her open her legs wide for worshipped to see through?" it was not up to 3 minutes before over 5 people told me the same thing. Of cause, I told them there is nothing wrong with that. I told them as a matter of fact, girls are advised to cross their legs to guard their vital areas. Since them, I have never been told that. Nobody also told me any reason it should not be done.

If they had reasons they could have presented it, this whole thing has to do with our culture, as (AFRICANS) why we see it as disrespectful to God, God does not see it that way.

Image123:
and where did i say or imply that others or myself do not need the fruits of the spirit? If she displayed those fruits, we won't be having this thread from her. i gave out my food today if that counts for selflessness, so what of you mr.judge? Go and read 1John3:16 and cure your brazen ignorance.

What makes you think that crossing of leg disqualifies one from having the fruit of the spirit?

Oahray: crap! I knew you would come up with some silly explanation. In your prevoius post, you said

that was why I put up the pic. Instead of you to admit, you are twisting words. At least you just agreed that ethics is subjective.

Tell me, if comparison is wrong, why did you start it in the first place with the unguarded fallacy about ethics and common sense, by saying decent peeps do not cross their legs?
Over righteousness, that's the problem with many people, and blind fanaticism too.

You must think africans are more decent than the white counterparts, don't you? I wonder how u'd explain the near nud.ity or females in the Calabar carnival, or the traditional zulu dressing for women in their festivals, or the many other African examples I wouldnt mind listing if you so wish.

When you do not know something, keep quiet about it. Crossing legs is not unethical or indecent. Stop trying to set standards for God!

@ignis: is the biggest dreamer of 2013.....waoh!!!