@Ogugua,

Love the idea, couldn't comment on it because I had a meeting that obviously got to me, you have my support as well. Regardless of whatever is going on at the moment, I believe a good number of people solidly stands with you.

Dede1: One of most cardinal qualities of Umuada Igbo is unconditional respect and submissiveness to their men.

What?!

I don't see how any of those could be classified as a "quality". Dede m, please, this is 21st century.

oily-Yoruba:
@ Ogugua, nice idea but a piece of advice: keep it Igbo and Igbo only. I agree and support your ideas but the one where you wrote "promoting peace through justice and equality for all nigerians". Seek/promote justice and equality amongst Ndigbo 1st before others....don't be another Nzeogwu and Zik.

Aah! Even you are starting to read between the lines. Don't worry you will eventually come to realise what I am talking about.

manny4life:

Abi o,

@Advocate666,

How do you know PointB is Igbo as well?

Most important question, HOW DO I KNOW YOU ARE IGBO?

Simply put you don't.

If my previous question is hard for you to answer, let me put it another way: how do you know that Negro Ntns is not an igbo?

advocate666:

What?!

I don't see how any of those could be classified as a "quality". Dede m, please, this is 21st century.

Bros, what has 21st century got to do with Igbo culture and tradition as we know it? I guess you are not among those people who would readily throw question such “did you go to school at all” when culture and tradition are being observed.

Europeans built schools for us and never introduced curriculum to teach culture and tradition. I guess the Europeans are very smart indeed.

advocate666: I think the point of my question about ogugua's igboship is: do we accept as igbo, anybody that call him/herself igbo? If yes, why do we accept ogugua as Igbo but reject Alj Harem when he says he's igbo?

I just want to point out to manny4life that stating that you are igbo is not sufficient. There are other indicators.

@ ogugua88, you may well be igbo but I have yet to see evidence. The only evidence I have seen so far is you saying the international court of justice should ask if we committed treason by wanting to separate from nigeria; you saying that we should emulate boko haram; you saying that igbos are killers and kidnappers; you telling us "odeshi" when we pointed this out.

Remember I asked you these same questions, YET, you did not reply. How do you define Igbo?

You've said indicators a good number of times, I've asked what indicators?

You're yet to see it doesn't mean the majority hasn't seen it, so what's the beef again?

The emulation of "boko haram" was in a different context, she did not explicitly say be like them, if I recall carefully, she was referring to their level of structure and organization and NOT their devilish and wickedly acts. Please say it like she said it o...

As for the Igbos that are killer and kidnappers, and for the odeshi part, while she was making a point which indeed was valid, I believe that the elders forum cautioned her about how to speak in public. The issue was also addressed in the constitution - let no one speak of the ill of the Igbo UNLESS they proffer a solution and or if within the Eze's council to make a reference. Like they say, when a child misbehave, you use the left to beat the child and use the right to console the child. I'm certain to a degree that Ogugua was cautioned, so what's your beef?

Look man what Ogugua88 has said is NOTHING, and I repat NOTHING compared to thrash that has been spewed on the Anabra vs (Enugu, Imo, Abia,) threads. So please, if you're a man of conscience , you'll NOT continue to hang onto old issues... MOVE ON.

while the rest of us true igbos have abandoned this whole charade for what its worth, its cool how you guys are dragging this thread further, igbos are busy people, we have made our feelings known and have moved on as can be seen on this thread. Having gone through the thread, the same crop of people fawning the so called Yoruba breed ezenwanyi have dragged this thread to the 8th page. one would think this not up to 8 elements comprise the whole igbos on Nairaland. lol. Please you people should find a name for this organization and Leave igbos outta this mess. Let me even unfollow this filth thread. bye.

advocate666:

Simply put you don't.

If my previous question is hard for you to answer, let me put it another way: how do you know that Negro Ntns is not an igbo?

Exactly!


Now you're getting my point, being that NL is a faceless forum, you cannot ascertain who's who, but simply identifying yourself as one, and actively engaging in public activities, then yes. Negro has often stated that he's Yoruba, so does Alj Harem (mr mixed cultures).

Ogugua88 has stated a million times she's Igbo, she has participated in the Igbo learning thread, spoken on Igbo topics, what else do you want from a faceless forum?

[size=16pt]Again, HOW DO YOU DEFINE IGBO? WHAT ARE YOUR INDICATORS FOR DETERMINING WHO'S IGBO.[/size]

manny4life:

Exactly!


Now you're getting my point, being that NL is a faceless forum, you cannot ascertain who's who, but simply identifying yourself as one, and actively engaging in public activities, then yes. Negro has often stated that he's Yoruba, so does Alj Harem (mr mixed cultures).

Ogugua88 has stated a million times she's Igbo, she has participated in the Igbo learning thread, spoken on Igbo topics, what else do you want from a faceless forum?

]Again, HOW DO YOU DEFINE IGBO? WHAT ARE YOUR INDICATORS FOR DETERMINING WHO'S IGBO.

I believe we are getting somewhere. You agree with me that there is no certainty. Thus in absence of certitude, what do we do? We use indicators.

Where we may diverge is on the weight we place on the available indicators. You seem to suggest that one indicator, i.e. the mere statement of calling oneself an igbo on this forum should suffice for the purpose of tribal identification. What I am saying is that this single indicator is not enough. I am saying that we must look at other pointers. For example, what that person says about the tribe on issues concerning that tribe; how well that person knows the geography and culture of that tribe; reading between the lines as people always betray themselves one way or another; how well that person speaks the language; etc.

All these indicators may still not be enough but they give you an idea of whether that person is really what they say the are.

Please also note that personal identification as a member of a tribe is 100% under the control of the proponent. The other indicators are not. It is foolhardy and naive to base one's judgement on the single indicator that the proponent supplied while ignoring all the other ones that are pointing in other directions.

And something else. Do you agree with her that the international court of justice should ask whether we committed treason by seeking independence from Nigeria?

let me officially introduce myself Lucenzo Mr. Nairaland Oga dinma

manny4life:

So now, I'm debating an example? Seriously? You alluded to the fact that "all evidence points to them not as Igbo", yet you say I'm debating examples. The dissatisfaction the Igbos have with him is VERY CLEAR, even I, I clearly stated my own beef as well, BUT my reply wasn't on the general scheme of dissatisfaction, but on your unfair allusions and reservation...

I'm glad you say it's an indicator, YET, YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION - WHAT MAKES ONE IGBO, HOW DO YOU DEFINE IGBO?

State your indicators please, it will be fair to state your opinions and grievance so I can see. You're right, it will NEVER happen, so unless you've fairly said what the beef is to regards to your "positioning indicators", they're mere fallacies, redundant accusations in thin air.

Those who took bribe to sell their brothers are Igbos, and I get it. However, doesn't that overrule your point? Aren't there those who helped their brothers though they dined and laughed with the opposites, aren't they Igbos? Like seriously, what is your point? Shouldn't a leader be more of a character driven(humility, aggressive, strength, outspoken, kind, vocal, etc)?

Yes, it holds no shred of validity, and no I won't borrow a leaf from Ogugua88 and keep quiet. I will speak out when issues like this arise because I've been a victim of circumstance as well. Up until recently, I started being vocal - I do not believe in ONE NIGERIA BECAUSE WE LACK THAT UNION. If we can't even embrace ourselves as Igbos, how much more in one nation? And you're hear talking about Nigeria, are you kidding me?

Nonetheless, I will NOT cut the nose to spite the face - I cannot dislike my brother because he wants to embrace Nigeria (a nation at the brink of collapse). We have different ideologies and principles, we may not agree with one another, but we should learn to respect each others views and most importantly - our differences when they arise.

Dude, I CANNOT change your mentality, if you're grossed by the fact that Odumchi and Ogugua88 are representing us, then your beef is understandable but saying that you have evidence pointing to them that they are not Igbo is plainly ridic. A lot of people who dislike Obama because he's the president, it's fine, but making the argument that Obama wasn't born here is just ridiculous and stupid. Hope you get my drift. Same applies here.

An Igbo person thinks like an Igbo, speaks Igbo, Worships CHUKWU, loves Igbo and many more beautiful igbo attributes. I can spot an mgbati from any sentence he/she makes. They think differently from Igbos and they act differently from Igbos. Once you hear of an Igbo thinking like an mgbati, that Igbo has been infected by mgbati; either by spending too much time with an mgbati, or conniving with an mgbati.

8 pages. I have tried to inform the igbos we all know to desert this thread than giving all this yorubba puppets relevance to the extent of making this thread get to 8pages. How can someone be so defiant to take corrections, that the person is giving us a law to bring justice and equality to all nigerians, without even thinking of bringing those qualities to ndigbo that she is their leaders first. Why the igbos have not come together to unify an igbo ezenwanyi is blabbing about nigeria just to please her yoruba puppets. It has been obvious from day one since the same so-called ezenwanyi can label we igbos murders and kidnappers and turn around to encourage boko haram and even advice us to imitate boko haram, accuse the igbos of treason against nigeria.

Mr. Globe:
while the rest of us true igbos have abandoned this whole charade for what its worth, its cool how you guys are dragging this thread further, igbos are busy people, we have made our feelings known and have moved on as can be seen on this thread. Having gone through the thread, the same crop of people fawning the so called Yoruba breed ezenwanyi have dragged this thread to the 8th page. one would think this not up to 8 elements comprise the whole igbos on Nairaland. lol. Please you people should find a name for this organization and Leave igbos outta this mess. Let me even unfollow this filth thread. bye.

advocate666:

I believe we are getting somewhere. You agree with me that there is no certainty. Thus in absence of certitude, what do we do? We use indicators.

Where we may diverge is on the weight we place on the available indicators. You seem to suggest that one indicator, i.e. the mere statement of calling oneself an igbo on this forum should suffice for the purpose of tribal identification. What I am saying is that this single indicator is not enough. I am saying that we must look at other pointers. For example, what that person says about the tribe on issues concerning that tribe; how well that person knows the geography and culture of that tribe; reading between the lines as people always betray themselves one way or another; how well that person speaks the language; etc.

All these indicators may still not be enough but they give you an idea of whether that person is really what they say the are.

Please also note that personal identification as a member of a tribe is 100% under the control of the proponent. The other indicators are not. It is foolhardy and naive to base one's judgement on the single indicator that the proponent supplied while ignoring all the other ones that are pointing in other directions.

And something else. Do you agree with her that the international court of justice should ask whether we committed treason by seeking independence from Nigeria?

Honestly, I did not even bother reading past the first paragraph after you have consistently said "indicators" without stating what these indicators are, I'M DONE.

Dibiachukwu:
An Igbo person thinks like an Igbo, speaks Igbo, Worships CHUKWU, loves Igbo and many more beautiful igbo attributes. I can spot an mgbati from any sentence he/she makes. They think differently from Igbos and they act differently from Igbos. Once you hear of an Igbo thinking like an mgbati, that Igbo has been infected by mgbati; either by spending too much time with an mgbati, or conniving with an mgbati.

Oh yes o, they have been infected. Where you guys cull up your thoughts is just mind boggling. In that case, don't speak English, after all, English is known to the west. Please speak Igbo only, if you travel abroad, speak Igbo only so you won't be affected...

Honestly, I'm done with all the bickering...

If Ogugua being eze nwanyi is causing this much controversy then the right to do is just give it to her runner-up. If half of the people she is suppose to rule do not view her as Igbo, while the other half do, all it's going to do is bring chaos. The half that do not see her as an Igbo will probably never listen to her which in fact will destroy the purpose of this whole organization. We are seeing this right now on this thread. That's my own advice on this.

One_Naira: If Ogugua being eze nwanyi is causing this much controversy then the right to do is just give it to her runner-up. If half of the people she is suppose to rule do not view her as Igbo, while the other half do, all it's going to do is bring chaos. The half that do not see her as an Igbo will probably never listen to her which in fact will destroy the purpose of this whole organization. We are seeing this right now on this thread. That's my own advice on this.

You have a point my brother One Naira. But we simply cannot remove her (or Eze Odumchi for that matter) and replace them with the runners up. Fortunately, the constitution has been unveiled, and provision for removal and succession of Eze is well enshrined in it. I again urge for patience for the elected as they are just into the second month of their tenure. Eze Odumchi has expressed his constraint, yet assured us of his desire to lead. Ogugua has unfolded her Umu Ada agenda, which has been roundly applauded. This should give most of us a reason to be patient with them.

If however, we are not impressed then we should go by the constitution. I believe members of the electoral team (9ja_I_hail, Ujchief, Afam, and myself) can conduct a referendum if the threshold of the petition is reached. But I must caution, that we should exercise patient to avoid triggering a musical chair scenario of leadership in this very nascent organization, without even a guarantee that it will achieve the much needed unity. Patience is golden...

manny4life:

Honestly, I did not even bother reading past the first paragraph after you have consistently said "indicators" without stating what these indicators are, I'M DONE.

You should have bothered reading the rest as I took pains to explain those "indicators".

However, can you please read and answer the last paragraph or is also too much to ask?

Dede1: One of most cardinal qualities of Umuada Igbo is unconditional respect and submissiveness to their men.

keep dreaming of being respected and submissive to you.It is your type of men that thinks women don't have a say or their opinion doesn't count. smh for you. you have longed lost my respect on this forum.

@ Ogugua, i am solidly behind you. umuada meeting is very important on this forum. you have my full support.

Dede1:


Bros, what has 21st century got to do with Igbo culture and tradition as we know it? I guess you are not among those people who would readily throw question such “did you go to school at all” when culture and tradition are being observed.

Europeans built schools for us and never introduced curriculum to teach culture and tradition. I guess the Europeans are very smart indeed.

What you call "culture and tradition" is always evolving. We accept what suits us, enrich it and discard the rest. We didn't have Kings untill the british brought their warrant chief nonsense. Today, I can say that kingship is part of our culture. Don't you agree?

One thing we must not do is let "culture and tradition" drag us backwards. Even the europeans you mentionned had and still have sexist customs which they are gradually doing away with. For example, the next heir to the throne of England will no longer depend on the gender of the firstborn.

Dede1: One of most cardinal qualities of Umuada Igbo is unconditional respect and submissiveness to their men.

Gbam!!
I agree but things seems to be falling apart ...maybe because the situation of the country is making some of our umuada/umunwoke anyi taking some desperate measures?
The level of divorcee is on the increase this days compare to the days of our mothers.Whats went wrong?

I think oguguo88 being one of our umuada has set the ball rolling for other umuadas to act on it even though this is online forum...go get other women from other sections to come and join.


#talk is cheap#

berem: keep dreaming of being respected and submissive to you.It is your type of men that thinks women don't have a say or their opinion doesn't count. smh for you. you have longed lost my respect on this forum.

@ Ogugua, i am solidly behind you. umuada meeting is very important on this forum. you have my full support.

You beginning to change from real you to something i do nt know.Anyway this is online stuff you never can predict anyone.

PointB:

If you don't want people to butt into your comment, perhaps it's best you don't bother posting it online. Anyone can choose to comment on any post here on this forum.
No one is asking the Eze to jump into fights, and offline duties are clearly not sole responsibility of Eze, it is the responsibility of everyone. His responsibility is clearly limited to 'commenting' online, same as you are doing. And his 'authority' is not extended beyond online; our Eze cannot parade the street of Aba, or Onitsha etc as Eze, let alone influencing anything with an online title. So I repeat my question to you: If the Eze doesn't comment what else would he be doing? Getting us jobs, wives,husbands, boy/girlfriends, houses, or building roads, schools, hospitals on Nairaland? And how exactly is he even going to do that if he does not starting by visibly commenting?

And if fighting, and screaming, is your way of showing leadership, you may as well stick to it, especially if it works for you. But clearly, there are others who prefer to do things in more mature way, devoid of rancor and bad blood/vibes. That is the kind of leader people are urging Odumchi to be. And he can ONLY show it here on Nairaland by COMMENTING on matters that concerns Ndi Igbo, as much as he could, or appoint someone as spokesman. That shouldn't be too hard to see, and shouldn't appear anyway 'ridiculous' to anyone mature enough to appreciate the limitation of online title.

My brother don't allow yourself to be over stressed on a particular issue. Our constitution is capable to deal with all these things. I am glad the constitution was drafted by all and agreed by all before publishing. Mind you the constitution has a time limit which a title hold can failed to be active then action will be taken.

advocate666:

What you call "culture and tradition" is always evolving. We accept what suits us, enrich it and discard the rest. We didn't have Kings untill the british brought their warrant chief nonsense. Today, I can say that kingship is part of our culture. Don't you agree?

One thing we must not do is let "culture and tradition" drag us backwards. Even the europeans you mentionned had and still have sexist customs which they are gradually doing away with. For example, the next heir to the throne of England will no longer depend on the gender of the firstborn.

If you think there is any monarchical institution in Igbo land other than pretentious royal shenanigans, I shall leave you with your thoughts. I do not see how our culture and tradition drag us backward but the lack of our culture and tradition seemed to be the bane of our stumped growth and development within our society.

It is a display of avoidable ignorance for any Africans to cow tow to seemingly moderation of cultural attributes of Europeans, if any. It is very silly to insinuate that whatever crap Europeans vomit becomes a model for culture and tradition in Igbo Land.

Ndigbo are wise enough to encourage certain modernization, where appropriate, in our culture and tradition without following sheepishly what other people do. Africans are mostly behind in every human endeavor because they (Africans) have abandoned what is native and natural to them to pursue what is incongruously alien to them.

What has the change of England’s next hair to its throne that depends on the gender of firstborn got to do with Ikeduru or Uratta or Igbo culture and tradition?

.

@9ja_I_hail
your admonition is noted and quite appreciated. Thank you.

@berem, dede1 is still a very respected member of our online Igbo community. You need not agree with him all the time, but according him due respect will not do you any harm. Thank you nne.

berem: keep dreaming of being respected and submissive to you.It is your type of men that thinks women don't have a say or their opinion doesn't count. smh for you. you have longed lost my respect on this forum.

@ Ogugua, i am solidly behind you. umuada meeting is very important on this forum. you have my full support.

Anyway, there is nothing I can do now to change your stream of thoughts about Dede1 and do not see any change of approach from Dede1 to certain issues on Nairaland forum in a foreseeable future.

I must continue to subject Rochas Okorocha , governor of Imo State, to constructive criticisms based on the facts privy to me.

I have sisters, wife and ladies who refer to me as their husband. Contrary to the goofy stuffs you seemed to embrace in today’ Igbo society, I have constantly drummed into their ears that acts of respectfulness and submissiveness to their husbands remain the tonic of wedlock. In addition, I shall not tolerate any in-law who would treat my girls as housemaid. Respect begets respect.

As a link to the custodian of my ancestral forbearers, companions of gods and owner of the lands, I subscribe the culture and tradition of Igbo land is paramount.

^^^
thank you dede1...
Na so it suppose be.

PointB: @9ja_I_hail
your admonition is noted and quite appreciated. Thank you.

@berem, dede1 is still a very respected member of our online Igbo community. You need not agree with him all the time, but according him due respect will not do you any harm. Thank you nne.

Bros, I salute you for such a rare compliment. I guess you receive same from your peers.

What is going on here? Smh. I said it before that Odumchi isnt qualified to lead us and now see. Suit yourselves!

Dede1:

Bros, I salute you for such a rare compliment. I guess you receive same from your peers.

I mean every word of it my brother. I do not agree with your most of your Rochas stance, but I respect them, and respect and appreciate also the job you do for umu Igbo online. More power to your elbow comrade Dede1.

Dede1:


Anyway, there is nothing I can do now to change your stream of thoughts about Dede1 and do not see any change of approach from Dede1 to certain issues on Nairaland forum in a foreseeable future.

I must continue to subject Rochas Okorocha , governor of Imo State, to constructive criticisms based on the facts privy to me.

I have sisters, wife and ladies who refer to me as their husband. Contrary to the goofy stuffs you seemed to embrace in today’ Igbo society, I have constantly drummed into their ears that acts of respectfulness and submissiveness to their husbands remain the tonic of wedlock. In addition, I shall not tolerate any in-law who would treat my girls as housemaid. Respect begets respect.

As link to the custodian of my ancestral forbearers, companions of gods and owner of the lands, I subscribe the culture and tradition of Igbo land is paramount.

I don't have any problem with your continuous beaf with Rochas. everyone is entitled to his own opinion. I have never insulted anyone who doesn't think in my line of reasoning. using my brother's scholarship as a case study to condemn Rochas 's scholarship scheme,saying it is frivolous is very annoying and an insult to my family. I believe respect is reciprocal. respect my opinion and you have my respect.