Image123:

false accusation is pharisaic and totally unchristian.

Good observation. If you noticed that when the scribes and Pharisees couldn't trap Jesus in His words they resorted to false accusations to nail him.

Image123:
you seem dazed, i don't see this truth you're seeing. Stop allowing the devourer to deceive you cheaply na Gosh. Plus, show some decorum here and stop this delirious talks about parts of the body.
BTW you mean you actually watched someone talk about tithes for two hours? you try oh, i salute your obsession, i d sleep off.

Abeg go sidon joor. You mean I can't be doing one thing and still be listening to the message of the video? You think everybody is lazy like you? If I can stay on Nairaland sometimes for more than two hours, what is your business what if I listen to a message for 2 hours; because it doesn't fix your teachings? Besides, you know say I don catch you finish.

OLAADEGBU:

Did you notice the bolded words in the quote above? Who in the Scriptures do you think is famous for saying that?

Show and tell.

That's your business? I was saying that in respect that I didn't tithe before God blessed me. You guys are the very ones promoting 'tithe before God can bless you' gospel. That's not the God I know and that's not the God I worship - He gives to ALL men liberally without finding fault. He has GIVEN us ALL THINGS that pertains to LIFE and GODLINESS. There's no where in the NT that a Christian MUST pay tithe BEFORE GOD blesses us. Stop threatening people with Malachi curse that was meant for the thiefing priest, not the people.

Bidam:

you have been following Jesus for 25 years by paying your tithes and now your "eyes" are opened that it is a fraud...pls tell me, has Jesus never spoken to you for the past 25 years that you gave your life to Him about the tithe issue? Why until now? A believer that is blind for good 25 years should not be taken seriously.

Good question. Probably he/she would also like to admit that they weren't really a believer in Christ until now.

OLAADEGBU:

If I show you the text you are asking for will you repent and confess publicly for misleading folks?

Show me/us and I will openly apologize. Show me where what we give when we gather in worship places is called 'offering' and see if I will not apologize and make sure it's in the New Testament o that parallels money given in worship place to offerings.

But this time, don't go get another article and/or video to answer me o

Candour:

Thanks a lot for your conclusion.i'm bold and humble enough like Apostle Paul to admit that ''i was just being Zealous of the traditions of my fathers''(Gal 1:13-14) in following the LAWS OF MOSES(TITHE) when i had been under GRACE all along.@the bolded,probably he had but i was too religious to listen just like you are doing now.

You dont need to take me seriously because it's not about me dear Brother;It's about what Grace entails and that's why i had to drop the traditions i was born into and start my journey again from the foot of the cross for by grace i'm saved,not by works(Eph 2:8-9

I'm sure no one taught you about tithe because you must have met your parents doing it so i understand your rigidity.It takes a man to admit he had been on a wrong road for so long Just like Apostle Paul.

That you refuse to treat the issue on ground and instead launch a poor personal attack wont hide the bible references that abound on this thread and wont drag me into the childish game of mudslinging.

God bless you plenty

Paul wasn't a believer in Christ until he had a personal encounter with Him. Thank God that you now have an encounter with Christ what you need now is an ardent love for the truth, supreme love for God, an intense desire to know more of Christ, a willingness to make any personal sacrifice in order to learn and to grow and a committment to practise as fast as you learn, having a fixed purpose of heart to know and to do the whole truth and a state of mind that will not be diverted to make provision for the flesh.

Goshen360:

Show me/us and I will openly apologize. Show me where what we give when we gather in worship places is called 'offering' and see if I will not apologize and make sure it's in the New Testament o that parallels money given in worship place to offerings.

But this time, don't go get another article and/or video to answer me o

Don't worry about that, I'll only quote one verse from the Scripture and see whether you are a man of integrity.

"Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings" (Acts 24:17).

OLAADEGBU:

Don't worry about that, I'll only quote one verse from the Scripture and see whether you are a man of integrity.

"Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings" (Acts 24:17).

I knew it.

THIS 'OFFERINGS' = COLLECTIONS FOR THE SAINTS

OFFERINGS (done by Paul, one man) = MONEY (given or done by many)

TO MY NATION = TO CHURCH

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Ola, you're so deceived in this 'offerings' that you can manipulate scriptures to fit your interpretation. Please try again. Again, show me where when any Apostolic writer writes TO THE CHURCH and calls the collection for the saints or collections (money) that is given during worship is CALLED OFFERINGS OR REFERRED TO AS OFFERINGS. People are reading your manipulations o

Goshen360:

I knew it.

THIS 'OFFERINGS' = COLLECTIONS FOR THE SAINTS

OFFERINGS (done by Paul, one man) = MONEY (given or done by many)

TO MY NATION = TO CHURCH

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Ola, you're so deceived in this 'offerings' that you can manipulate scriptures to fit your interpretation. Please try again. Again, show me where when any Apostolic writer writes TO THE CHURCH and calls the collection for the saints or collections (money) that is given during worship is CALLED OFFERINGS OR REFERRED TO AS OFFERINGS. People are reading your manipulations o

You have now revealed your true colour and why we should not take you seriously again. These are the challenges you posed and when I gave you the answer you move the goalpost. I brought up your past posts as to this regard for the record.

Goshen360:

I have said it before and will say it again. What we give in worship places today when we come together is NEVER offering. It is religion that calls it offering. The NT simple teaches we should set aside 'certain portion' of our money for God when we come together. That's where our giving to our worship places comes in. If I'm talking out of scripture, then will you mind to show us where OFFERING = MONEY DONATIONS in worship places other than this scriptures.

Goshen360:

If you like call it offering. Nowhere does the NT refers offerings to MONEY given to worship places. Show us from scriptures that offerings = MONEY and let's stop going back and forth. Very simple!

Goshen360: ^
You're always found of lifting article all over the Internet just to answer a simple question. How do you conclude I took one and leave the other out? The New Testament doesn't refer to 'offering' as the money we give when we gather together in worship - it is the religious church that called it offering.

I have challenged you to show us a text where what we give in worship places is called 'offerings' you're yet to show us and yet, you're lifting articles to tell me how someone taught tithe for America. Did America ever tithed BEFORE the developed or created wealth for themselves and help other countries? Now, you're taking this tithe gospel beyond the walls of worship places to country level.....Chei, I fear for you now!

I rose to the challenge you posed only for you to discount it. I hope serious minded Christians are watching and noting what kind of a charlatan you are. It is convenient for you to take offerings as long as it is not called tithes. Tithes and offerings are principles taken from the OT. The reason why you elevate one and denigrate the other is best known to you and your ilks. I just pity the blind that you are leading enmass into the ditch.

OLAADEGBU:

You have now revealed your true colour and why we should not take you seriously again. These are the challenges you posed and when I gave you the answer you move the goalpost. I brought up your past posts as to this regard for the record.

I rose to the challenge you posed only for you to discount it. I hope serious minded Christians are watching and noting what kind of a charlatan you are. It is convenient for you to take offerings as long as it is not called tithes. Tithes and offerings are principles taken from the OT. The reason why you elevate one and denigrate the other is best known to you and your ilks. I just pity the blind that you are leading enmass into the ditch.

See how I'm laughing at you in Hebrews and Greek together . You are the very one that your love for money is exposed here. TITHE = CROPS AND ANIMALS in scriptures. The New Testament clearly says we should set aside certain portion of our 'MONEY'. It was VERY CLEAR but NEVER called it offerings. You and your tithe teachers are the very one seeing money in everything we do in the worship places.

Did you run out of scriptures in the New Testament to show where OFFERING = COLLECTIONS OF/FOR THE SAINTS OR MONEY WE SET ASIDE Is that too hard for you to do? Just show us, for example where the New Testament says, "on the first day of the week, every one of you must set aside OFFERINGS for the saints....". That's the kind of scripture I want you to show us. You can't seems to understand OFFERINGS means different thing in scriptures, do you

I'm still waiting oooooooo

Goshen360:

See how I'm laughing at you in Hebrews and Greek together . You are the very one that your love for money is exposed here. TITHE = CROPS AND ANIMALS in scriptures. The New Testament clearly says we should set aside certain portion of our 'MONEY'. It was VERY CLEAR but NEVER called it offerings. You and your tithe teachers are the very one seeing money in everything we do in the worship places.

Did you run out of scriptures in the New Testament to show where OFFERING = COLLECTIONS OF/FOR THE SAINTS OR MONEY WE SET ASIDE Is that too hard for you to do? Just show us, for example where the New Testament says, "on the first day of the week, every one of you must set aside OFFERINGS for the saints....". That's the kind of scripture I want you to show us. You can't seems to understand OFFERINGS means different thing in scriptures, do you

I'm still waiting oooooooo

I don't need to show you more than one reference seeing that you are not a respecter of the infallible word of God. But for the benefit of those who are ardent seekers of the truth I will show how Paul's offering is equal to money or collections for the saints that was set aside.

"Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings"

(Acts 24:17).

This is the text we are understudying, lets see what the alms and offerings meant when we search scriptures with scriptures.

"But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things"

(Romans 15:25-27).

You can see that Paul is here talking about the Philipian and Corinthian churches here who offered their material things. This is what Paul brought for the poor saints at Jerusalem.

"Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me"

(1 Corinthians 16:1-3).

Here you see what is called designated offering practised here. You will even see the principle of tithes in their regular and systematic giving for the overall work of the Lord. The words "in store" in Greek (thesaurizo) means "storehouse" or "treasury" which was a place the church deposited their offerings on Sundays. The principle for proportionate giving can be clearly seen here commanded by Paul and if this is not percentage giving then I don't know else is.

This is what Paul brought to Jerusalem as alms and offerings seen in the verse I posted.

"Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings"

(Acts 24:17).

Candour:

Thanks a lot for your conclusion.i'm bold and humble enough like Apostle Paul to admit that ''i was just being Zealous of the traditions of my fathers''(Gal 1:13-14) in following the LAWS OF MOSES(TITHE) when i had been under GRACE all along.@the bolded,probably he had but i was too religious to listen just like you are doing now.

You dont need to take me seriously because it's not about me dear Brother;It's about what Grace entails and that's why i had to drop the traditions i was born into and start my journey again from the foot of the cross for by grace i'm saved,not by works(Eph 2:8-9

I'm sure no one taught you about tithe because you must have met your parents doing it so i understand your rigidity.It takes a man to admit he had been on a wrong road for so long Just like Apostle Paul.

That you refuse to treat the issue on ground and instead launch a poor personal attack wont hide the bible references that abound on this thread and wont drag me into the childish game of mudslinging.

God bless you plenty

i ain't launching a poor personal attack on u bro..rather i pointed out to you why for the past 25yrs..you ave not heard God clearly on this issue till now? You are the one taking this tithe issue far too seriously for your comfort..and while we re on the subject paul zeal was in persecuting the church and not d other way round..so don't use him as your example

OLAADEGBU:

I don't need to show you more than one reference seeing that you are not a respecter of the infallible word of God. But for the benefit of those who are ardent seekers of the truth I will show how Paul's offering is equal to money or collections for the saints that was set aside.

You cannot show us scriptures simply because you don't have any to show that OFFERINGS = COLLECTIONS FOR/OF THE SAINTS or MONEY GATHERED WHEN WE COME TOGETHER FOR WORSHIP. Many of you use circular dictionary to define God's word and hereby confuse people. When God says tithe, He means tithe.

OLAADEGBU:

This is the text we are understudying, lets see what the alms and offerings meant when we search scriptures with scriptures.

"But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain [size=20pt]contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things"[/size] (Romans 15:25-27).

You can see that Paul is here talking about the Philipian and Corinthian churches here who offered their material things. This is what Paul brought for the poor saints at Jerusalem.

You can see how you're exposing yourself right? CONTRIBUTIONS FOR THE POOR SAINTS. Very clear in the text. Now, let's see what Paul by HIMSELF offered in Acts that you quoted, the text says,

Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings" (Acts 24:17).

He (Paul) could have as well said, "alms and offerings TO MY NATIONS". Contributions FOR THE SAINTS is NOT alms and offerings TO MY NATION. I'm not surprised you can twist scriptures just to justify your greed. Out of all NT scriptures, you can't show where offerings SIMPLY refers to MONEY given in worship places?

OLAADEGBU:

"Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me"(1 Corinthians 16:1-3).

Here you see what is called designated offering practised here. You will even see the principle tithes in their regular and systematic giving for the overall work of the Lord. [size=20pt]The words "in store" in Greek (thesaurizo) means "storehouse" or "treasury" which was a place the church deposited their offerings on Sundays.[/size] The principle for proportionate giving can be clearly seen here commanded by Paul and if this is not percentage giving then I don't know what it is.

This is what Paul brought to Jerusalem as alms and offerings seen in the verse I posted.

You're a LIAR! - The word 'in store' is NOT the same as 'storehouse'. How can you tell this kind of LIES and still claim to be a man of God? I have showed you from the Greek Dictionary the meaning of 'storehouse' and 'in store' and I will quote it for you again, I know your tithe mind will never allow you see when I gave you the definition but here's it again,

Goshen360:

The Hebrews word and meaning for 'storehouse' is NOT the same as the Greek meaning of the Greek word for 'store' as used in 1 Corinthians 16:2.

STOREHOUSE, from here: http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/malachi/passage.aspx?q=malachi+3:9-10

Lexicon and dictionary opened here: http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/owtsar.html

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Definition
treasure, storehouse treasure (gold, silver, etc) store, supplies of food or drink treasure-house, treasury treasure-house storehouse, magazine treasury magazine of weapons (fig. of God's armoury) storehouses (of God for rain, snow, hail, wind, sea)


STORE as used in 1 Corinthians 16:2,

1) to gather and lay up, to heap up, store up
a) to accumulate riches
b) to keep in store, store up, reserve
2) metaph. so to live from day to day as to increase either the bitterness or the happiness of one's consequent lot.

How then does both words mean the same thing. Maybe the next thing you will say 'storehouse' = 'The Church' which you tithe teachers had been saying. Yes?

Bidam: i ain't launching a poor personal attack on u bro..rather i pointed out to you why for the past 25yrs..you ave not heard God clearly on this issue till now? You are the one taking this tithe issue far too seriously for your comfort..and while we re on the subject paul zeal was in persecuting the church and not d other way round..so don't use him as your example

i am happy to hear you didn't intend going personal.

Now my dear brother,can you pls explain Deut 14:22-29 here? As Christians,i believe we shouldn't be scared of reading and discussing any part of our bible.Dont think i'm patronising you.I see myself as nothing more than a bible student who wants to obey God from the bottom of my heart and would be glad if you could point me back to the right path if indeed i'm on wrong road.

I remember you and i even engaged on a thread not long ago where i requested a discuss like this and your reply was no problem(if you go through your posts in December 2012 i think,you'll see it).

Thanks in anticipation and God bless

Goshen360:

You cannot show us scriptures simply because you don't have any to show that OFFERINGS = COLLECTIONS FOR/OF THE SAINTS or MONEY GATHERED WHEN WE COME TOGETHER FOR WORSHIP. Many of you use circular dictionary to define God's word and hereby confuse people. When God says tithe, He means tithe.

It doesn't matter whether I show you one or more Scriptures it is clear that you don't respect any of them. You accuse me of using circular dictionary and you then counter that by using circular dictionaries/lexicons. If that is not double standard I don't know what that is.

Goshen360:

You can see how you're exposing yourself right? CONTRIBUTIONS FOR THE POOR SAINTS. Very clear in the text. Now, let's see what Paul by HIMSELF offered in Acts that you quoted, the text says,

Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings" (Acts 24:17).

He (Paul) could have as well said, "alms and offerings TO MY NATIONS". Contributions FOR THE SAINTS is NOT alms and offerings TO MY NATION. I'm not surprised you can twist scriptures just to justify your greed. Out of all NT scriptures, you can't show where offerings SIMPLY refers to MONEY given in worship places?

If offerings are not contributions for the saints then what is it? You don't have to appeal to the emotions of folks to make your point.

Goshen360:

You're a LIAR! - The word 'in store' is NOT the same as 'storehouse'. How can you tell this kind of LIES and still claim to be a man of God? I have showed you from the Greek Dictionary the meaning of 'storehouse' and 'in store' and I will quote it for you again, I know your tithe mind will never allow you see when I gave you the definition but here's it again,

Here you go again, if you cannot support your point with evidence you then must attack the person by use of ridicule and ad hominems. What Greek dictionary are you talking about? What does it say thesaurizo means?

@OLADEEGBU

You amaze me with your vituperations here.I wish you could stick to the point here.No matter the language you employ to read Ben Carson's speech,the summary of the TITHE reference is to make Americans see the wisdom in a fair and equal tax system.Not for Americans to start paying TITHES.Be that as it may,Ben Carson is not Apostle Paul neither is he a human bible.you should even know that Carson is an Adventist so what would you say if he calls you a sinner for not observing the SABBATH?let us try to explain doctrinal issues using the bible as much as possible.

i wish you could explain Matthew 23:23 you quoted in relation to Matthew 23:1-3.i think its better we avoid taking it from the middle.

Kumuyi your G.S NEVER I REAPEAT NEVER explains a bible verse all on its own.he is an advocate of reading the bible in context and that is what i beg of you here.

Bro OLADEEGBU,pls indulge me and let us discuss the references above.

God bless you

OLAADEGBU:

You have now revealed your true colour and why we should not take you seriously again. These are the challenges you posed and when I gave you the answer you move the goalpost. I brought up your past posts as to this regard for the record.







I rose to the challenge you posed only for you to discount it. I hope serious minded Christians are watching and noting what kind of a charlatan you are. It is convenient for you to take offerings as long as it is not called tithes. Tithes and offerings are principles taken from the OT. The reason why you elevate one and denigrate the other is best known to you and your ilks. I just pity the blind that you are leading enmass into the ditch.

pls sir, what is ur problem with offering? You want to hear the truth? Ok, let me tell you, christians are not supposed to give 'offering'. There is no place in the NT where christians are told to give 'offering' to God if you know what is offering. How come when i posted my views on offerings in this thread you did not react? Love you.

OLAADEGBU:

It doesn't matter whether I show you one or more Scriptures it is clear that you don't respect any of them. You accuse me of using circular dictionary and you then counter that by using circular dictionaries/lexicons. If that is not double standard I don't know what that is.

You see yourself? I used Greek and Hebrew Dictionary of Biblical words and I gave the link to the meaning. It can be verified OPENLY and I don't know where and how I used a circular dictionary here.

OLAADEGBU:

If offerings are not contributions for the saints then what is it? You don't have to appeal to the emotions of folks to make your point.

Offerings in the NT was NEVER money given when we gather to worship God as instructed in 1 Corinthians. It means something else that was commanded in the law of Moses. What we donate or give when we come together to worship is simply called 'COLLECTIONS FOR THE SAINTS" and that is MONEY, very clear from scriptures. It's just like telling people 'church' means 'building'. That's the same thing you're doing here.

OLAADEGBU:

Here you go again, if you cannot support your point with evidence you then must attack the person by use of ridicule and ad hominems. What Greek dictionary are you talking about? What does it say thesaurizo means?

Okay, again, since you really want me to expose you. I will give two verifiable Greek and Hebrews Dictionary and I'll define the word 'in store' as used in 1 Corithians 16:1-3. Here's it:

First, I open the Greek dictionary to the verse above here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=16&v=1&t=KJV#conc/2

Here is the second link of the same verse: http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/1-corinthians/passage.aspx?q=1-corinthians+16:1-3

Now, I open the Greek definition for each,

1. The Greek word is Thesaurizo as you said BUT you're manipulating folk here with ANOTHER meaning saying it means SAME THING as STOREHOUSE. Here is the meaning of 'in store', IT IS A VERB - http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/thesaurizo.html and as you can see, it means,

Definition
to gather and lay up, to heap up, store up
to accumulate riches
to keep in store, store up, reserve
metaph. so to live from day to day as to increase either the bitterness or the happiness of one's consequent lot

2. The second Greek dictionary says the same thing for a witness, SAME GREEK WORD - thēsaurizō and it is also A VERB, here is the meaning from here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2343&t=KJV and it means,
1) to gather and lay up, to heap up, store up
a) to accumulate riches
b) to keep in store, store up, reserve
2) metaph. so to live from day to day as to increase either the bitterness or the happiness of one's consequent lot

ON THE OTHER HAND, STOREHOUSE MEANS,

Malachi 3:9-10 opened from here: http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/malachi/passage.aspx?q=malachi+3:9-10 and the Hebrews Dictionary for the word 'storehouse' is opened here: (http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/owtsar.html) Hebrews word, 'owtsar and IT IS A NOUN MASCULINE, NOT A VERB LIKE 'IN STORE'. It means this,
Definition
treasure, storehouse
treasure (gold, silver, etc)
store, supplies of food or drink
treasure-house, treasury
treasure-house
storehouse, magazine
treasury
magazine of weapons (fig. of God's armoury)
storehouses (of God for rain, snow, hail, wind, sea)

The second dictionary says the same thing. Opening Malachi here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mal&c=3&v=9&t=KJV#conc/10 and it means,

1) treasure, storehouse
a) treasure (gold, silver, etc)
b) store, supplies of food or drink
c) treasure-house, treasury
1) treasure-house
2) storehouse, magazine
3) treasury
4) magazine of weapons (fig. of God's armoury)
5) storehouses (of God for rain, snow, hail, wind, sea)

Oya, show everybody how 'IN STORE' = 'STOREHOUSE' We're waiting!

christemmbassey: pls sir, what is ur problem with offering? You want to hear the truth? Ok, let me tell you, christians are not supposed to give 'offering'. There is no place in the NT where christians are told to give 'offering' to God if you know what is offering. How come when i posted my views on offerings in this thread you did not react? Love you.

Ola is blinded to MONEY and hence he sees OFFERINGS from scriptures as MONEY. Offerings as practiced in the scriptures is NEVER to bring money. That's exactly what I'm trying to tell him but ....... smh. OmG!

Goshen360:

Ola is blinded to MONEY and hence he sees OFFERINGS from scriptures as MONEY. Offerings as practiced in the scriptures is NEVER to bring money. That's exactly what I'm trying to tell him but ....... smh. OmG!

I dont think OLADEEGBU sees it in the same way properity teachers see it.you can see he and Joagbaje being diametrically opposed on the PROSPERITY GOSPEL thread he opened.I believe he just cares about christians funding legitimate church programs which is not a bad idea.since i started attending Deeperlife Dec retreat in 1986 as a child,i have always been amazed at how a church can feed thousands of people with three square meals for 5-7 days consecutively without asking for a RETREAT OFFERING.Dec 2012 was no exception and i remember my younger brother whom i went with saying 'bros,i must chop this rice wey dey fire so' because we packed close to the kitchen(Rumuodara camp ground) and you couldn't ignore the sweet aroma of the food which indicated it must be of high quality.there was still no call for retreat ofeering.Infact offering was actually taken only once throughout the retreat and it was on a sunday.

So pls dont tar him with the same brush.the argument is that we believe christians are no longer bound by the 10% law of Moses but are at liberty now to give something or not to give anything as their spirit leads them.this is my understanding of GRACE and i've asked him to explain matthew 23:23 he quoted earlier.

Candour:

I dont think OLADEEGBU sees it in the same way properity teachers see it.you can see he and Joagbaje being diametrically opposed on the PROSPERITY GOSPEL thread he opened.I believe he just cares about christians funding legitimate church programs which is not a bad idea.since i started attending Deeperlife Dec retreat in 1986 as a child,i have always been amazed at how a church can feed thousands of people with three square meals for 5-7 days consecutively without asking for a RETREAT OFFERING.Dec 2012 was no exception and i remember my younger brother whom i went with saying 'bros,i must chop this rice wey dey fire so' because we packed close to the kitchen(Rumuodara camp ground) and you couldn't ignore the sweet aroma of the food which indicated it must be of high quality.there was still no call for retreat ofeering.Infact offering was actually taken only once throughout the retreat and it was on a sunday.

So pls dont tar him with the same brush.the argument is that we believe christians are no longer bound by the 10% law of Moses but are at liberty now to give something or not to give anything as their spirit leads them.this is my understanding of GRACE and i've asked him to explain matthew 23:23 he quoted earlier.

let Ola stop intimidating and collecting ppl's monies as tith. It was abolished. However a christian can give 100% if he wish but dont stampeed them.

christemmbassey: let Ola stop intimidating and collecting ppl's monies as tith. It was abolished. However a christian can give 100% if he wish but dont stampeed them.

Exactly my sentiments too my brother

what's with the blabbing about deeper life and kumuyi? can folks stick to the thread instead of sentiments, blackmail and man-worship? if you want to talk to Ola talk to him, if you want to talks to kumuyi or oyaks or oyedepo or adeboye, go to their church on Sunday.
And i see no reason why Gosh shouldn't show his disciples that deut14 talks of two different types of tithes different from a third common one. Why are folks ever learning and never willing or able to come to the knowledge of the truth? why is gosh keeping quiet like he's not aware? Why is Kunle feigning ignorance? Have they forgotten, or are they only interested in drawing men to themselves?

plus which dictionary is holier than the other? i tire for gosh oh. You and all these my link is more sanctified than yours. You don't need a dictionary to know that Paul brought offerings to the church in Jerusalem. It wasn't dropped in their Senate house or aso rock. It was given to the church, this is common Bible knowledge. Stop all these bamboozling with Greek and Hebrew links. We have something better, a treasure in earthen vessels.

Image123: what's with the blabbing about deeper life and kumuyi? can folks stick to the thread instead of sentiments, blackmail and man-worship? if you want to talk to Ola talk to him, if you want to talks to kumuyi or oyaks or oyedepo or adeboye, go to their church on Sunday.
And i see no reason why Gosh shouldn't show his disciples that deut14 talks of two different types of tithes different from a third common one. Why are folks ever learning and never willing or able to come to the knowledge of the truth? why is gosh keeping quiet like he's not aware? Why is Kunle feigning ignorance? Have they forgotten, or are they only interested in drawing men to themselves?

only you can explain what got you into your rage but pls dont hurt yourself.any adult can see the thread was started by OLADEEGBU and i was clarifying things based on what christemmbassey and Goshen concluded about the OP.

You can blab all you want but it doesn't remove a strand of hair from my body.If you can't contain your rage my dear brother,do us all a favour and do what my daughter would do;GO TO BED and sleep it off.

Candour:

i am happy to hear you didn't intend going personal.

Now my dear brother,can you pls explain Deut 14:22-29 here? As Christians,i believe we shouldn't be scared of reading and discussing any part of our bible.Dont think i'm patronising you.I see myself as nothing more than a bible student who wants to obey God from the bottom of my heart and would be glad if you could point me back to the right path if indeed i'm on wrong road.

I remember you and i even engaged on a thread not long ago where i requested a discuss like this and your reply was no problem(if you go through your posts in December 2012 i think,you'll see it).

Thanks in anticipation and God bless

God must really have a wonderful sense of humor...based on the scripture u quoted..it goes to show the love God has for isreal. so it is not all about legalism altogether..to my understanding the children of isreal practised 3 types of tithing..and u just picked only one for an argument. God concept of His kingdom is outlined in Ex 19:6.. And God still want all His laws remembered( mal 4:4)..am surprised you didn't quote deut 16:17, deut 18: 1..anyway sha..ave u heard the phrase "obedience is better than sacrifice"?..or why do you think Abraham obeyed God when he offered His son isaac.. The OT was a forshadow of the NT..Just as Christ offered himself..we ought to lay our lives for the brethren..The whole point about God's kingdom is Love..cos God is LOVE..now if u can't start by giving a measly 10% of ur Life just becos u re too busy you ave not yet begun your journey into His Kingdom..identity is the basis of behavior: a clear understanding of who we are in Christ guides our conduct in the Spirit

[size=13pt]Mini$ter$ who $tre$$ tithe$ $how a $elfi$h intere$t in $omething be$ide$ $aving $oul$ for Je$u$.[/size]

Bidam: God must really have a wonderful sense of humor...based on the scripture u quoted..it goes to show the love God has for isreal. so it is not all about legalism altogether..to my understanding the children of isreal practised 3 types of tithing..and u just picked only one for an argument. God concept of His kingdom is outlined in Ex 19:6.. And God still want all His laws remembered( mal 4:4)..am surprised you didn't quote deut 16:17, deut 18: 1..anyway sha..ave u heard the phrase "obedience is better than sacrifice"?..or why do you think Abraham obeyed God when he offered His son isaac.. The OT was a forshadow of the NT..Just as Christ offered himself..we ought to lay our lives for the brethren..The whole point about God's kingdom is Love..cos God is LOVE..now if u can't start by giving a measly 10% of ur Life just becos u re too busy you ave not yet begun your journey into His Kingdom..identity is the basis of behavior: a clear understanding of who we are in Christ guides our conduct in the Spirit

i'm happy u replied.now i just read the references you gave and noted the following

1.Deut 16:7 was talking of eating the passover(start from Deut 16:1 to get the full gist) which is totally different from tithes.i want to believe you're not advocating we start celebrating passover which is a shadow of Christ's atoning sacrifice.

2.Deut 18.1 confirmed what Deut 14:22-29 said in that TITHES of the mosaic era were actually a welfare tax on isrealite farmers to cater for the tribe of levi who had the duty of the sanctuary and HAD NO INHERITANCE IN ISREAL(meaning,no property,no business,no farm lands etc).It also took care of the poor in the land.you can also scan through Numbers 18:1-32 to get another detailed explanation.

you are right they practiced more than 1 and that's what i stumbled on 3 years ago that made me sit down and start questioning the traditions i had been born into.

Why has no pastor,i repeat no pastor when preaching about tithes ever told us there were more than 1? why was Deut 14:22-29 never quoted?.my dear Brother Bidam,i dont know your denomination but i'm sure i can safely conclude you DO NOT practice any of the variants of TITHES listed in Deut 14:22-29.my understanding of the tithes there are

1.yearly Tithe which you take to the temple in Jerusalem and eat with your family and also the levites(Deut 14:22-27)
2.trienial tithe which you give to the Levite,strangers,fatherless and the widows(Deut 14:28-29)
3.The Tithes only comprised proceeds of Agricultural and Livestock farming.(Deut 14:23)

As for Mal 4:4, i want to ask if these laws comprise all the laws from Deut 12:1 to Deut 27:26? or the 10 commandments ?

Also since Christ died for our sins,where does the law end and grace begin? especially with reference to Matthew 5:17-18, Romans 10:4 and Gal 3:10-14

Thanks a lot

Candour, my gist seems to be lost on you..ayam not advocating we go back to the mosaic law..like i said earlier the OT was a shadow of the NT...remember i said God is Love..please can you give me the defination of love according to your understanding?

Bidam: God must really have a wonderful sense of humor...based on the scripture u quoted..it goes to show the love God has for isreal. so it is not all about legalism altogether..to my understanding the [size=20pt]children of isreal[/size] practised 3 types of tithing..and u just picked only one for an argument.

A careful screening of your statements under the lens of the word of God proves that you know the truth with the phrase, "to my understanding" BUT you don't want to stand by or say the truth. The highlight also proves that you believe that IT WAS THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL that practiced 3 types of tithing. WHERE ARE THESE THREE TYPES OF TITHING COMMANDED TO THE CHURCH OR THE GENTILES The Bible in general at different dispensation was either written to the Jews, Gentiles or the Church of God - Where is tithe commandments for THE CHURCH Or the Church and the Children of Israel the same people?

Bidam:

God concept of His kingdom is outlined in Ex 19:6.. And God still want all His laws remembered( mal 4:4)..am surprised you didn't quote deut 16:17, deut 18: 1.

Exodus 19:6 still refers to Israel NOT the Church with a New Covenant having the phrase, "thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel". Malachi 4:4 is same having the phrase, "law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him at Horeb for all Israel" the same thing - You people need to stop confusing what was written and addressed to the Jews and be applying it to the New Covenant Church, you're bring confusion into the Church and the body of Christ.

Hebrews 10:1 says the law was ONLY a SHADOW of GOOD THINGS but NOT the VERY GOOD things by itself. Colossians 2:17 says, the REALITY is found in Christ. Romans 10:4 says Christ is the END of the LAW. Hebrews 7:19 says the LAW made NOTHING perfect etc etc. The scripture is very clear the Christians OR THE CHURCH OF GOD ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO FOLLOW ANY JEWISH REGULATIONS.

Even that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there--false ones, really--who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations. - Galatians 2:4

We accept sacrificing goats and bull is gone but we don't accept tithing is gone What kind of interpretation is that? I tell you what is it - Selective Interpretation of scriptures.

Bidam: to my understanding the children of isreal practised 3 types of tithing..and u just picked only one for an argument.... am surprised you didn't quote deut 16:17, deut 18: 1..

If you like let it be 500 types of tithing whether quoting Deuteronomy 16:17 or not. When the Bible says Christ fulfilled the law and ended it, what business are you still trying to tell the Church of Christ to keep the law? We, Christians were NEVER under the law in the first place. We have NO business whatsoever OBEYING and KEEPING the law of Moses. Take a look,

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,

New Living Translation (©2007)
Even Gentiles, who do not have God's [size=20pt]written law[/size], show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. - Romans 2:14

Bidam: anyway sha..ave u heard the phrase "obedience is better than sacrifice"?..or why do you think Abraham obeyed God when he offered His son isaac..

Again, Christians have not business OBEYING the law. What we're told is OBEDIENCE TO THE GOSPEL (2 Corinthians 9:13). If you want to follow Abraham obedience as an example, why do you go and offer your son also, if you have one. You just said, they were shadows and the fulfillment was found in Christ; then what is our business trying to fulfill ANOTHER SHADOWS if Christ had already fulfilled those shadows?

Bidam: The OT was a forshadow of the NT..Just as Christ offered himself..we ought to lay our lives for the brethren. The whole point about God's kingdom is Love..cos God is LOVE.

If the NT already fulfilled the Old. What then are you still looking for? What more do you want? That we should lay down our lives for the brethren doesn't mean we should kill ourselves for those Christ already died for. Abi you wan kill yourself ni. If you do, lemme tell you, your sacrifice will not make any difference, you go just die for nothing because Christ already offered the SINLESS and ETERNAL sacrifices for mankind. What can make earthly sacrifices for our brethren not killing ourselves for them. Say, if I have $100 I intend using for an important issue and I sacrifice that money for someone's MOST pressing need or life, that's LOVE and that's sacrifice.

Bidam: now if u can't start by giving a measly 10% of ur Life just becos u re too busy you ave not yet begun your journey into His Kingdom..identity is the basis of behavior: a clear understanding of who we are in Christ guides our conduct in the Spirit

People who don't take care to read your post very well will NOT notice the deceit in your post. You just said up there that 3 types of tithing was commanded to the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. Here you're saying someone should give 10% of HIS LIFE. Do you even know what you're saying or you just wanna talk. If you're serious about what you're saying then simply show us the portion of tithe for the Church where you and I belongs as instructions for us to tithe.

The kingdom of God doesn't begin with 10% of our lives - it begins by giving our lives to God and then whatever every man can afford to support the advancement of God's kingdom on earth and in keeping up with our needs or living expenses. That's the NT instructions to the church. It has to come from the heart what we give NOT a MUST and legalistic tithing that wasn't even written to the church in the first place.

Don't lemme catch you talking rubbish again o

Bidam: Candour, my gist seems to be lost on you..ayam not advocating we go back to the mosaic law..like i said earlier the OT was a shadow of the NT...remember i said God is Love..please can you give me the defination of love according to your understanding?

Love is that which seeks its neighbor's highest good

hope this definition suffices?