There is a part of the Jewish Torah that called black people Animals. This part was removed before selling religion to africans. They and the arabs gave is problematic religion and took our lands.( Algeria,morocco,south Africa belongs to the blacks

Religion is the reason we are having this conversation

Reason they took us as slaves to do hard labour in Europe and America

Reason the belgian cut of the right hands of 10 million congolese

ifeness: There is a part of the Jewish Torah that called black people Animals. This part was removed before selling religion to africans. They and the arabs gave is problematic religion and took our lands.( Algeria,morocco,south Africa belongs to the blacks

Religion is the reason we are having this conversation

Reason they took us as slaves to do hard labour in Europe and America

Reason the belgian cut of the right hands of 10 million congolese

You are confusing me, are humans not animals again ? Has biology redefine humans ? I learnt that humans are higher mammals. I probably am old school. Please educate me.

ifeness: There is a part of the Jewish Torah that called black people Animals. This part was removed before selling religion to africans. They and the arabs gave is problematic religion and took our lands.( Algeria,morocco,south Africa belongs to the blacks

Religion is the reason we are having this conversation

Reason they took us as slaves to do hard labour in Europe and America

Reason the belgian cut of the right hands of 10 million congolese

For clarity sake so that anyone viewing this argument can process the information being sent across on both sides.
I implore you(if you please) to respond to my posts as I have done to yours in a constructive manner.

So I can respond accordingly thank you.

chukkynwob:

Please to which of my questions is this answer applicable to?




Please what did you then mean by these statments and I quote,"The fact is we all learn what they want us to know in
our schools,churches etc.
The best way to learn is by one's self"



I agree with you that science is improving on a daily basis.
Again how does this substantiate any of the theories you put forward,secret labs,alien sightings etc?



Are you assuming that it is only the US and Europe that conduct research?

And how are also sure that if America and European governments and millitary conduct research that the Nigerian goverment has no such research facilities?

Anyway disregard the other questions on 'our government and scientist' tangent, I just wanted to point out some false premises that arrived at there.
you asnwered my question on the 'our scientists and governments' you were referring to comment.

This is my motto: "Believe nothing,question everything". It doesn't matter i say, i am only being nosy self . But when 20 school kids in Zimbabwe claimed they saw what they describes as aliens. Then it obviously proof something is fishy. You can look it up on youtube.

Billyonaire: You are confusing me, are humans not animals again ? Has biology redefine humans ? I learnt that humans are higher mammals. I probably am old school. Please educate me.

Sure you are right sir!

Billyonaire: You are good with English, I am a great fan here, but I will like to keep it simple: Do you still believe in Higher Intelligence again (cos you believed and accepted 1hr ago), if Yes, then those higher intelligence are what Religion call Angels, Demons, spirits etc. So therefore, you are not atheist. That is my simple conclusion. I am not saying that you should worship them, atheism is a belief system and not a worship factor. I did paste definition of atheism as defined by wiki. You really need to not fight your belief system simply because its the 'new cool' to be atheist.

No, I don't believe. I think they can exist in nature as organisms just like we humans(as in possibility). So, just remove BELIEVE and put THINK(as to my own perception of life - that is my own cup of tea). Every other thing will be fine because that is the bone of contention here.

Atheism is a belief as in opinion,PERIOD.

all4naija: No, I don't believe. I think they can exist in nature as organisms just like we humans(as in possibility). So, just remove BELIEVE and put THINK(as to my own perception of life - that is my own cup of tea). Every other thing will be fine because that is the bone of contention here.

Atheism is a belief as in opinion,PERIOD.

Sounds self contradictory. But I respect your complexity. One moment, you believe, another fleeting moment you think, and then you concluded by saying its a belief system. I probably need more time to understand the person behind the all4naija monika. Peace Profound! I got to go to bed now, my angel calls.

poopli: We believe in living a fulfilled life during this one single existence. We believe in total freedom and e believe that death is the end of us as an individual.

You believe in total freedom .....fine! Can i ask u a question ...just one question

Sagamite: What do they have to gain?

Not living a deluded life and enjoying their lives as the deem fit till they die.

Dont be deceived.... If u believe christians stand to gain nothing and atheist stand to gain a fulfilled life...who will be dere to judge after death dat d atheist truly lived a fulfilled life?..... If there's no gonna be an after life den both atheist and worshipper of Gods av nothing to loose... .mumu dont be fooled....u shall gv acct of ur deeds to Jah

Unluvable*:
So if there were no promised benefits in religion, humans would have discarded it long ago. People don't really care about God, they are in it for the gain. Strictly business!!, that's just sad

u need to understand that humans are greedy,,covetous and envious in nature.... If there's nothing to cushion dat effect then even this world dat u choose to enjoy will not be a place u can leave in....The govt of ur country have laws and orders...if there were no laws...then am sure... U probably may av been killed by ur sister...thereby depriving u of enjoyin d life u want.....how will our God not av rules and regulations...when a mere mortal man has rules guiding him

Seun, Moderators, why haven't you banned this thread for corrupting the moral values of our beloved Nigeria with this wicked devilish Atheism??! Doesn't Nigeria have enough problems without God putting His curse (God forbid!) on us for having so many Atheists? If we do not shut these Atheists up and totally annihilate Atheism we will have blood on our hands when we are punished for allowing such filth in our midst!

Atheists, this may be in vain but Jesus Christ died for you too! You have a purpose in this life that God has planned for you! Find it and you will find peace.

I don weep 4 Naija.

I honestly get the drift of the self=professed atheist/agnostics on this thread......and i see their challenge to the OP as and Christians in general to verify their faith, to verify the content of their Christian experience, because nothing is as tragic as a Faith that throws reason to the Winds.

The problem i have with atheism is the method it uses in approaching reality! Atheism starts with a negative hypothesis, which is very, very inconsistent with scientific research, where the researcher starts always with the positive hypothesis of that "something could be present" and sets out to seek with an open reason, free of presumption and prejudice.

The person who will find Truth is one who is detached from her thinking, her conclusion before the "fact of reality"; she will find Truth who uses reasons according to the Object in question. You can not use mathematical formulae to discover if your Girlfriend or mother truly loves you: you will resolve an algebraic equation with the almighty formula but can know who loves you by another method and come to a right conclusion using the one and the same reason, because reason is very dynamic, every object dictates the method of arriving to certainty about it. Religion, the possibilty of a Supreme Being, life and its ultimate meaning are not excluded.

It is certain to me, by simple observation that I did not create myself, neither did my parents, it is apparent that i dont know how my heart beats every second......it is so simple to see if we look at ourselves with the open eyes with which even children look at reality.....they call black black and white white but a warped adult will say em, it depends, but, i cant say....lets start to "look" at reality and see what it is saying and not "think" about what is so obvious

Ayomivic:

You haven't answer my question. If it's not by gainning one should choose his stand by what did you choose your stand as an atheist. That was the question i asked.

You as a so called believer should not compare yourself with an atheist. Shouldn't your service to god be a consequence of your love for him? Why does it have to be because you wanna go to heaven or because of what you stand to gain.If no heaven was promised to you in the bible,would you still serve god? Your motive for serving god is selfish n if god is as wise as you say he is,he'll definitely kick your selfish behind outta heaven.

musKeeto: If there's nothing after death, just like there was nothing before birth, then you have nothing to lose. But you'd have lost a lot while living : the prayers, fasting, religious activities, tithes etc...

The atheist/agnostics loses nothing both ways, IMO. Most atheists hold themselves responsible for their actions and seek to enjoy the experience of this one life.


On the other hand, if I die and meet the Christian God (i'd leave out other Gods at the moment in order not to derail this thread), I'd be shocked... And I would ask him a lot questions before he flips my sorry a55 to hell...

So what exactly is there to lose? The thought of singing all eternity long in heaven isn't an appealing one. God better get an ipod...

You Sir are on point!

God have mercy on ur children. The heart of men are really blinded in dis vain world, they throw insults on God but also forget the fact that He's a consuming fire. You who think you are wise, strong and whatever, pls do you really think that you can stand hell? If all these were not so, Jesus Christ won't have come and warned us abt it. But the problem is that my brothers and sisters now think that they don't need this Grace offered to them. Anyways, heaven or hell, it's ur choice, but i plead you choose heaven. God bless you all.

49cents: I honestly get the drift of the self=professed atheist/agnostics on this thread......and i see their challenge to the OP as and Christians in general to verify their faith, to verify the content of their Christian experience, because nothing is as tragic as a Faith that throws reason to the Winds.

The problem i have with atheism is the method it uses in approaching reality! Atheism starts with a negative hypothesis, which is very, very inconsistent with scientific research, where the researcher starts always with the positive hypothesis of that "something could be present" and sets out to seek with an open reason, free of presumption and prejudice.

The person who will find Truth is one who is detached from her thinking, her conclusion before the "fact of reality"; she will find Truth who uses reasons according to the Object in question. You can not use mathematical formulae to discover if your Girlfriend or mother truly loves you: you will resolve an algebraic equation with the almighty formula but can know who loves you by another method and come to a right conclusion using the one and the same reason, because reason is very dynamic, every object dictates the method of arriving to certainty about it. Religion, the possibilty of a Supreme Being, life and its ultimate meaning are not excluded.

It is certain to me, by simple observation that I did not create myself, neither did my parents, it is apparent that i dont know how my heart beats every second......it is so simple to see if we look at ourselves with the open eyes with which even children look at reality.....they call black black and white white but a warped adult will say em, it depends, but, i cant say....lets start to "look" at reality and see what it is saying and not "think" about what is so obvious

Trying to use Logic and reason to validate religious assertions and dogma is the ultimate toil in futility. Agnostics and Atheist (Who are not perfect) make their opinions about the world based on verifiable evidence while Religious opinions on the world are made irrespective of (and mostly contradicting) verifiable evidence!

Why do you assume that creationism is the only way you could come to exist? What verifiable evidence (not faith based) for creationism is available?
….and as for how your heart beats, as magical as it may seem, some dedicated years in medical school will demystify the majority of the human body’s inner workings.

Put your efforts and IQ to other accademic endeavors.

"Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" (Colossians 1:26-27).
So u atheist folk can't understand d mystery behind what a christian really entails until u give ur lives to christ and study to show yourselves approved by d help of the Holy Ghost. But dnt forget your unbelief can't stop heaven from existing or even hell. Its a 2 way thing u re either 4 God or satan believe or not if u re not 4 God then u re automatically 4 satan and his reward shall u receive

I pity the Atheist because when I collect my 72 virgins over there, they will only be watching and salivating.

onitshaigbo: Seun, Moderators, why haven't you banned this thread for corrupting the moral values of our beloved Nigeria with this wicked devilish Atheism??! Doesn't Nigeria have enough problems without God putting His curse (God forbid!) on us for having so many Atheists? If we do not shut these Atheists up and totally annihilate Atheism we will have blood on our hands when we are punished for allowing such filth in our midst!

Atheists, this may be in vain but Jesus Christ died for you too! You have a purpose in this life that God has planned for you! Find it and you will find peace.

I don weep 4 Naija.

I hope you have not stopped weeping. But I support you. You should launch a crusade or jihad against these dirty Atheists!

Lets keep it simple. Most Atheists dontt take the cemetery street at night cos of fear, yet they profess to not believe in Deity and deities. It occurs to me that the fear is born out of nothing.

Billyonaire: Lets keep it simple. Most Atheists dontt take the cemetery street at night cos of fear, yet they profess to not believe in Deity and deities. It occurs to me that the fear is born out of nothing.

Unfortunately, I've slept in a cemetery before. Don't ask me why..

Billyonaire: Stop talking about money, lets discuss Atheism as subject of the thread, should you need to know how money is made, then Business section is it, I am sure I can expound on trade secrets there. Now, stay in focus, dont derail.

No. I need you to prove the cosmic junk you wrote there actually works ionically.

So how can you prove it?

Again, lets play it simple: Almost everyone has experienced sleep paralysis, yet an atheist will say its the brain 'playing tricks' on us, and that the abnormal things we see and hear during the trance-like state are hypnotism and mind game, yet they can not explain what part of us hear and sees even when the physical body is in trance-like state. Since we cant move or talk in that state, commonsense should tell us our organs are impaired, yet there is consciousness. In which body ?

Miss Ope:

Dont be deceived.... If u believe christians stand to gain nothing and atheist stand to gain a fulfilled life...who will be dere to judge after death dat d atheist truly lived a fulfilled life?..... If there's no gonna be an after life den both atheist and worshipper of Gods av nothing to loose... .mumu dont be fooled....u shall gv acct of ur deeds to Jah

You are a person!

There will be no afterlife and you would have wasted your sundays, saturdays going to choir practice and a few mid days going for praise worship or marathon prayer to talk to a God that is not listening.

person, there will be no moronic account giving like your moronic medieval illiterate men conjured from their fantasy like J.R.R Tolkien. There are many other conjured fantasies by other illiterate medieval men that have died quietly as they were not well marketed or the attached fear-factor was not strong enough. This fantasy and the one of Islam seem to have survived strongly to hold you simple mind in intellectual bondage.

Miss Ope:
u need to understand that humans are greedy,,covetous and envious in nature.... If there's nothing to cushion dat effect then even this world dat u choose to enjoy will not be a place u can leave in....The govt of ur country have laws and orders...if there were no laws...then am sure... U probably may av been killed by ur sister...thereby depriving u of enjoyin d life u want.....how will our God not av rules and regulations...when a mere mortal man has rules guiding him

person, I do agree with that. That is why I love religion and promote it.

We do actually need religion to control fucktards like you. Religion is GOOD! It is just not true. We only use it to foool you fucktards to behave.

www.nairaland.com/1069077/summerise-bible-one-sentence/1#12501606

www.nairaland.com/1069077/summerise-bible-one-sentence/1#12501765

www.nairaland.com/1069077/summerise-bible-one-sentence/1#12501932

It is a shame a person like Logicboy is not a Xtian.

onitshaigbo: Seun, Moderators, why haven't you banned this thread for corrupting the moral values of our beloved Nigeria with this wicked devilish Atheism??! Doesn't Nigeria have enough problems without God putting His curse (God forbid!) on us for having so many Atheists? If we do not shut these Atheists up and totally annihilate Atheism we will have blood on our hands when we are punished for allowing such filth in our midst!

Atheists, this may be in vain but Jesus Christ died for you too! You have a purpose in this life that God has planned for you! Find it and you will find peace.

I don weep 4 Naija.

You mean the kind of "curse" he is putting on the non-religious Western world and the kind of "blessings" he is putting on overly-religious Africa?

Mugu!

I am sure you find peace when Olopaa is slapping you on the street in Nigeria and throwing you in jail until your relatives come and pay bail that is not in the statute book. What a blessing you have.

God is not yet punishing you enough for your religiousity?

Ayomivic: Christians believed in life after death, that is the reason we are struggling to make heaven.Christians are travellers in this world,we have a place in focus. that place is our gain of being christian.


You as an atheist what do you stand to gain for being an atheist ?

You know there's something borderline dubious in the notion that there stand to be a reward for one's belief in something in the afterlife. You probably would have cared less if the idea of heaven and hell was not in the equation, I guess. This shows how selfish the "religious mindset" is, it is all about what one gets in the end and nothing more. This fact is even evident in many christian songs and way of doing things.

Well, I have got a few questions for religious people with such mindset; Christians and Muslims alike.
1. When you get to this heaven that has been promised, what exactly will you all be doing?
I once heard a christian say: worship God.
For eternity? Is he that bored? Is that not another form of slavery in itself? Won't you rather go to hell or stay put on earth?

2. In what form will you exist in heaven?
A baby, the age in which you died, a youngstar or is there like an average age for every heaven entrant? And then what happens to one's memory?
Do you lose all of it the moment you die or you go on with it to heaven? Do you remember relatives and friends or you become total strangers in heaven? Who wants to live that kind of torture?

3. The question of consciousness and self-will seem all too strange in the equation of heaven. Do people have free-will like they do on earth? Can I for instance, take my own decision and say; "today, I don't want to worship God, I want to stay home and 4ck my wife?" I ask this because if there's realy free-will and consciousness, at some point, the issue of sin will come up again even in heaven and then we would have to grapple with the fact that it aint afterall, a perfect place as described.
Unless of course heaven is another case of thou shall not do this and that, which also raises the question again; why create laws if everyone is perfect and do not have the ability to sin.
4. By the way, how long realy is eternity?

If you can answer these questions logically without resorting to incongruous and illogical explanation then may be, I mean, "MAY BE" I will give this your heaven a thought.

clemmonce: but being a christian has worked for me i was once an unbeliever like u til i met Jesus. if u think u hav peace hav an encounter with Jesus and u wil knw everlastin peace

Sorry dude, i am an ex-believer, so don;t think you know jesus more than me!

Artorius: believe it or not there are fools like u who still think that a watch can evolve from the mixture of molten magma and a million year old fossil. There is God but in your hastened and premature knowledge you deny his existence trying to chase after knowledge without wisdom. I dunno u may not have had the right person to explain biblical issues to u but just know that there is God..how u decide to follow him is your fucking business but i advise you watch your tongue because a divine Being cannot tolerate an insult to his name and that is why he's God

you are a leaner my friend! you know nothing about religions and gods!

dvdon:
Wow u can go on n on quoting guys like Ricky about the existence of gods but as u said if u ask me, I will say I serve a living God "Jehovah". Brah is a shame to see guys like u just turn ur back on your creator, come on, think of the wonders of this earth, nature, life and so on. I read of a scientist and astronaut who saw earth from the horizon and said there must be a creator somewhere yeah he was an athiest n a well earned one not like many of u guys here but he gave his life to christ despite his age n experience in life. I am a science geek too infact once tagged nerd but I believe that even if u are more book knowledge from the book ama outshine you with wisdom. You wanna knw y? because am a christian n I hve aquired wisdom because God is the giver of wisdom n u don't ve it and you knw y! So let's stop imitating the western crabs they got to it out of frustration check it up. You where born into a religion so stick to it cos its is the right path.

thanks! but keep your religion to yaself, i have moved on and better off without any religion.

rhymz: You know there's something borderline dubious in the notion that there stand to be a reward for one's belief in something in the afterlife. You probably would have cared less if the idea of heaven and hell was not in the equation, I guess. This shows how selfish the "religious mindset" is, it is all about what one gets in the end and nothing more. This fact is even evident in many christian songs and way of doing things.

Well, I have got a few questions for religious people with such mindset; Christians and Muslims alike.
1. When you get to this heaven that has been promised, what exactly will you all be doing?
I once heard a christian say: worship God.
For eternity? Is he that bored? Is that not another form of slavery in itself? Won't you rather go to hell or stay put on earth?

2. In what form will you exist in heaven?
A baby, the age in which you died, a youngstar or is there like an average age for every heaven entrant? And then what happens to one's memory?
Do you lose all of it the moment you die or you go on with it to heaven? Do you remember relatives and friends or you become total strangers in heaven? Who wants to live that kind of torture?

3. The question of consciousness and self-will seem all too strange in the equation of heaven. Do people have free-will like they do on earth? Can I for instance, take my own decision and say; "today, I don't want to worship God, I want to stay home and 4ck my wife?" I ask this because if there's realy free-will and consciousness, at some point, the issue of sin will come up again even in heaven and then we would have to grapple with the fact that it aint afterall, a perfect place as described.
Unless of course heaven is another case of thou shall not do this and that, which also raises the question again; why create laws if everyone is perfect and do not have the ability to sin.
4. By the way, how long realy is eternity?

If you can answer these questions logically without resorting to incongruous and illogical explanation then may be, I mean, "MAY BE" I will give this your heaven a thought.

Brilliant questions I am sure their medieval illiterates living in an era of harshness did not think about when they were fantasing about some great land where the streets flow with honey.

Let me add a fifth question:

5) Are many of you going to be so grateful and pleased to continue worshipping your God for eternity despite the suffering he caused for some few on Earth and the fact he would throw some of your nice family and friends in hell for some sin they did not have the time to ask for forgiveness for, while some evil person can get deliverance by asking just before he died? Would you love heaven that much living with such evil people and injustice while your own close ones are burning in extreme heat for eternity due to the judgement of your "Most Merciful"?

I love the fantasy of these illiterate medieval men.

At least, by their moronic fantasy logic, I have a slight chance. I can fornicate and enjoy my life and if I am "lucky" to be in a situation like the Titanic where I face death and know I might die, I can simple go on my knees and ask for forgiveness and take Jesu Omo Baba Christi as my Lord and saviour, and 'Viola!', I am saved and going straight to heaven.

Like in Monopoly, the card would read: "Go directly to heaven. Do not pass strip joint, do not get a last shagg from your chics".

It is like Deal or No Deal, I have beaten the Banker Jehovah in the game.

Simpleton junk!

I am a Christian not because i simply want to gain heaven at the end, but because being a true Christian (i.e., living like Christ and not just by being a member of a church) is the best life to live. As a true Christian, u learn not to be anxious about anything, ur are at peace with ur self and with others, u re contented with wht u re have, u live a humble and quiet life, u shun a manner of wickedness most people are involved in with its asociated negative consequencies. etc. Infact, u live life to the fullest and enjoy internal peace and joy most people lack. Any act of worship a true Christian renders to God be it prayer, fasting, tithe/offering etc are done voluntarily in response to God's love. So, even if there was no heaven, i would stil choose to be a Christian because by so doing, i have nothing to loose, but everything to gain in living a better life here on earth.