St.Ola:


The book of isaiah would have existed whether or not there was a future Christ and his disciples. It is an account of Isaiah, a prophet sent to God's people the Hebrew, and as such would have had no relevance to you and I as Africans worshiping our own gods.


I believe we all know the old testament is the Jewish holy book, and there's nothing old about it as far as they are concerned. Rather they regard you and I as blind followers of an impostor Messiah.

The bible only includes this already existing Jewish scripture book (old testament) to lay the foundation for why Christ had to come and die for the sins of the world.

The bible on the other hand is a book the records the gospel of Christ and the teachings of his church, with the old testament as an appendage.

[b]THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS DO NOT REGARD US AS FOLLOWERS OF AN IMPOSTOR MESSIAH. THIS SHOWS YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. YOU FIRST SAID THAT THE BIBLE ( WHICH IS MADE UP OF OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS) WAS AUTHORIZED BY THE CHURCH SO WHO AUTHORIZED THE BOOK OF ISAIAH THAT CHRIST READ FROM AND THEN DECLARE THAT THIS DAY IS THIS SCRIPTURE FULFILLED IN YOUR HEARING! THIS SHOWS THAT ISAIAH WROTE FROM AUTHORITY AND INSPIRATION BECAUSE HE WROTE OF SOMEONE WHO WAS TO COME LONG AFTER HIS DEATH.

OR ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH EXISTED BEFORE CHRIST WAS BORN? MY ADVICE TO YOU IS THAT YOU DESIST FROM YOUR ARGUMENTS BECAUSE THE MORE YOU DO, THE MORE YOU EXPOSE THE BLUNDERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.


Isaiah 61
King James Version (KJV)
61 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.


Luke 4:18-21
King James Version (KJV)
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.[/b]

bukatyne:

Why don't you 'honour' the Father of Jesus?

And who tld u we dont

bukatyne:

Mary is NOT the mother of Christ, she is the mother of earthly Jesus.

Sorry!

Kaycee7: That's why we're sure that Mary is no mere mortal. Whatever She is, She remains the Mother of God. A mere mortal couldn't have wiped away Eve's mistake. GOD is not a half and half person. HE does things to the full. Mary cannot be Mother to the Man-Jesus without being Mother to the God-Jesus. And where did this Man-Jesus, God-Jesus theory come from?

Mary wiped away Eve's mistake? Really?

I don't think we are talking of the same foundation here .

If mary had the power to wipe Eve's mistake, what did Jesus Christ come to do? Why did Mary have to receive the Holy Spirit at Penetecost?

peppy luv: My dear u catholics have time to ans these pple,if only catholics on this forum will agree,we shud all ignore topics on Mary or the catholic church nd let them have fun fooling themselves!!cuz this attack on the church will neva stop !so for hw long do u guys want to contine arguing
Yes we are catholics who love and adore mary!!!does anyone have a prblm with that?huh??
Better to call on mary than call on d god of my pastor!!eg god of oyedopo!!

It is better to call on Mary than God of Oyedepo? Do you grasp English? Why don't you compare oranges and oranges? Have you not prayed to the God of Elijah? Are you comparing the God of Elijah/Oyedopo to Mary?

Kaycee7: The Holy Spirit is Mary's spouse. The Holy Spirit is GOD so Mary is GOD'S Wife. GOD THE FATHER Is Mary's Father so Mary is also GOD'S Daughter. GOD THE SON is Mary's Son so Mary is also the Mother of GOD. To understand everything, you'll need to understand the mystery of the Holy Trinity and no man can comprehend that mystery.

The Holy Spirit married Mary? You better keep quiet before God slaps you.

Syncan:


Just listen to yourself, He was man at some time and change to God at some time, bla bla bla, Who made the child in the womb of Elizabeth leap for joy, God or man, Who forgave the paralytic? The man or God? Who told Mary, " Don't you know I should be about my father's business", God or man? Who did the magi see in bethlehem, God or man? Just do a little reading, and you will find out that the whole christendom condemned Nestorius and this your teaching since 431AD. You no de shame, christian indeed.

Why did Jesus have to be baptized with the Holy Spirit before he started his public ministry?

bukatyne:

Why did Jesus have to be baptized with the Holy Spirit before he started his public ministry?

John3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

John3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Does the scripture passage give you the answer you seek?

Syncan:


John3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

John3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Does the scripture passage give you the answer you seek?

He was baptised non the less because he was human just like everyone during that time!

gree-die:


lol... pagan madness? and you know this because?.. der u go, interpreting the bible according to your level of ignorance...

The Gospel of St. John relates two significant accounts which relate to Mary — the wedding feast of Cana and the Crucifixion. Of the first account we read:
“There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee, and the Mother of Jesus was there. And Jesus also was invited, and His disciples, to the marriage. And the wine failing, the Mother of Jesus said to Him, ‘They have no wine.’ And Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, what is it to Me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.’ His Mother said to the waiters, ‘Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye’” (John 2:1-5).
Jesus Christ then proceeded to work His first public miracle at His Mother’s request. Everything related in the Gospels is inspired by God, and there is a reason for it. Does not this narrative of the wedding feast manifest the intercessory power of Mary with Jesus Christ, her Divine Son?
In the second account, also take from the Gospel of St. John, we read:
“There stood by the Cross of Jesus His Mother... When Jesus therefore had seen His Mother and the disciple standing whom He loved, He saith to His Mother: ‘Woman, behold thy son...’” (John 19:25-27).
Just as Eve cooperated with Adam in the Fall of mankind, the Blessed Virgin Mary cooperated with Jesus Christ in our redemption. She “stood by the Cross of Jesus.” What anguish, what sorrow did the Mother of Jesus experience at the foot of the Cross as she witnessed the sufferings and death of her Divine Son!
In both accounts, Jesus addressed Mary by the term woman. In Hebrew the word used by Jesus was a term which would be addressed to a queen or a woman of high rank. It was a term of great respect.
But why did Jesus Christ address His Mother by the term woman at these two significant moments in His life — at His first public miracle, and at His Crucifixion on the Cross?
Our Divine Lord wanted to clearly indicate that His Mother was the Woman spoken of in the Book of Genesis:
“I will put enmities between thee (Satan) and the Woman, between thy seed and her seed, and she shall crush thy head.”

catholics do not, as Protestants falsely believe, worship the Blessed Virgin Mary. We honor her who was so intimately connected with Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. Yes, there is only one Mediator with the Father — Jesus Christ. Only the God-Man Jesus Christ could have redeemed mankind. Nevertheless, we pray to Mary that she may intercede for us with her Divine Son. How often we request the assistance of prayers from our fellow men — how much more powerful are the prayers and intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary! In the Old Testament, we read how Moses prayed with arms outstretched and interceded with God to procure the victory of the Israelites over their enemies in a crucial battle. As long as he prayed, they were victorious. When he ceased his prayers, the Israelites began to lose. Because of this, it was necessary for two men to hold up Moses’ arms in prayer until the battle was won. Also, we read in the Old Testament how Josue prayed to God to have the day prolonged in order to win another crucial battle. If Moses and Josue could have such intercession before God, how much more powerful are the prayers of
the Blessed Virgin Mary!

Congratulations! You just won the IGNORAMUS PAR EXCELLENCE award. What an height of deception? May God enlighten you. That's all!

honeric01:

He was baptised non the less because he was human just like everyone during that time!

Hope a christian is talking to me.

bukatyne:

It is better to call on Mary than God of Oyedepo? Do you grasp English? Why don't you compare oranges and oranges? Have you not prayed to the God of Elijah? Are you comparing the God of Elijah/Oyedopo to Mary?

YES YES and Capital YES ! Mary is billion miles powerful than the demon god oyedepo worship

CrazyMan:
Mary was just the earthly vessel God use in bringing Jesus into this world.

She's human like you and I...so it would look silly to worship her.

Hmmmmmm, U describe d Mother of God d Son wu is d saviour of d world nd king of kings as "just earthly vessel" imagine sm1 use d word 'just' 4 ur mum, den sit down nd luk

My answer is straight forward, we don't worship Mary we honour her, because she is the mother of Jesus, don't you honour your own parents? And we ask mary to pray for us, pls don't you also tell your pastors, friends and parents to pray for you. So why the confusion?

CAMEROONPRIDE: dumb azz next time don't quote me, when u have no clues about what we are talking about or the initial comment. suberu

Classified dumber azz! Nw u r looking for an escape route abi? U ve read ur dumb analogies and it didn't even make any sense to u rather than tie up ur itchy fingers and exit the thread unnoticed u still carried on with ur foolishness! U r still not making any sense and ur comments still does not address the topic in question! U can just copy someone's else comment and post that's if u so desire to post a comment.

anitank: You do nothing. We just pray to her to intercede on our behalf

bible verse and chapter?

(song)We are honouring Mary, we are honouring,we 'r honouring Mary, never worship her, bt pple say we worship her, not at all, everybody join d chorus honour her. We d catholics dont worship Mary, we only ask her to INTERCEDE 4 us just as U out dea run to Ur pastors nd pastres,parent,frnds etc to pray 4 U. Our Mother of heaven nd earth who played a vital role in d salvation of mankind, clothed with d sun, crown with twelve stars, nd under her feet is d moon,presently seated on d throne of Grace,Rev12:1 thru17. Oh mother, 4gv dem 4 dey dont know wat dey are saying. Ask ur pastor d motherhood of Mary,dt is if dey r not fake.

naijadeyhia:


[b]THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS DO NOT REGARD US AS FOLLOWERS OF AN IMPOSTOR MESSIAH. THIS SHOWS YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. YOU FIRST SAID THAT THE BIBLE ( WHICH IS MADE UP OF OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS) WAS AUTHORIZED BY THE CHURCH SO WHO AUTHORIZED THE BOOK OF ISAIAH THAT CHRIST READ FROM AND THEN DECLARE THAT THIS DAY IS THIS SCRIPTURE FULFILLED IN YOUR HEARING! THIS SHOWS THAT ISAIAH WROTE FROM AUTHORITY AND INSPIRATION BECAUSE HE WROTE OF SOMEONE WHO WAS TO COME LONG AFTER HIS DEATH.

OR ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH EXISTED BEFORE CHRIST WAS BORN? MY ADVICE TO YOU IS THAT YOU DESIST FROM YOUR ARGUMENTS BECAUSE THE MORE YOU DO, THE MORE YOU EXPOSE THE BLUNDERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.


Isaiah 61
King James Version (KJV)
61 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.


Luke 4:18-21
King James Version (KJV)
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.[/b]

Let me reiterate.
I said the bible as a BOOK you have somewhere in your bedroom and which you refer to for spiritual guidance is a compilation by the Church.

It comprises an already existing Jewish book validated by the Jewish religious leaders themselves, which the church then termed as the old testament as it only lays a foundation as to why Christ was to come and die for the sins of all owing to the inadequacies of the law.

Secondly it has the apocrypha/deutero-canonical books, which while both of the law and of Hebrew origins as the old testament, was ignored by the Jewish leaders as scripture, hence considered of less weight in matters pertaining to the law. Notice that even the Jewish religious hierarchy determined what is scripture or not out of an abundance of existing Jewish religious literature. However the Church included this in what it called the bible (to be later removed by a single man Martin Luther, who apparently had more divine inspiration than a whole church council who compiled and validated the bible over 1000years before him. If you must know, the same Martin Luther desired to remove the book of James and Revelation to St.John. the former because it repudiated his own assertion of sola fide, sola gratia, sola scriptura).

Thirdly, the bible has the New Testament, the fulfilment of the law and the making of a new covenant as God himself had promised. The establishment of a new priesthood that made irrelevant the law. The ministry of Christ and his commission to his disciples to go preach his good news to all (not the contents of the law of the Jewish scripture, but his own teaching of mercy, repentance, salvation and love).
The documentation of this was done by those who witnessed Christ and by those who by oral tradition became knowledgeable of Christ, and both set out to evangelize the world with the teachings of Christ, not of the law.

This documentation by the early church fathers and their contribution to church growth by manner of letters sent to remote provinces is what the same church after them put together deciding what was scripture or not from a multitude of Christian documentations and letters and available revelations to conclude on the New Testament. It then included the Jewish book it chose to term the Old Testament and the Jewish sidelined Apocrypha and called the resulting book Bible.
All these done by a church council under the direction of the holy see in Rome.

At this juncture, you might do well to consult an unbiased book like the encyclopaedia. Historical facts should never be debated in arguement!

chinedum45:


Jesus is God why would he tell those lepers to go show themselves to a priest

do u believe in curses moving from generation to the next? Adam and Eve sinned and only baptism washes that sin. So every child inherits that sin and u know nothing unclean can enter heaven and infants die.....so what is wrong in cleansing an infant of this Adams sin so that if it dies as infant it can see God?

Mary died a virgin go and read the prophecy of Isaiah, also no proof that she had other children.

remember God gave the commandments before the snake bite in exodus yet he commanded Moses to make a SERPENT AND HANG SO THAT ANYONE BITTEN BY SNAKE AND LOOKS AT IT SHALL LIVE.....u see that....now read the building of the temple and see the making of creatures even for the ark of covenant.....they are images graven....?
even ur pictures are images u know and the commandment is Thou shall not make ANY IMAGE....
now we honor Mary and never worship her. Kissing ur pix is not worshipping it. Crying infront of ur late mums pix and telling her of ur suffering after her demise is not worship.....Note we do not worship Mary but show her Love and honor

Mary died a virgin?

What happened to her engagement with Joseph?

bukatyne:

Mary died a virgin?

What happened to her engagement with Joseph?

Mary's perpetual virginity

In connection with the study of Mary during Our Lord's hidden life, we meet the questions of her perpetual virginity, of her Divine motherhood, and of her personal sanctity. Her spotless virginity has been sufficiently considered in the article on the Virgin Birth. The authorities there cited maintain that Mary remained a virgin when she conceived and gave birth to her Divine Son, as well as after the birth of Jesus. Mary's question (Luke 1:34), the angel's answer (Luke 1:35-37), Joseph's way of behaving in his doubt (Matthew 1:19-25), Christ's words addressed to the Jews (John 8:19) show that Mary retained her virginity during the conception of her Divine Son. [65]

As to Mary's virginity after her childbirth, it is not denied by St. Matthew's expressions "before they came together" (1:18), "her firstborn son" (1:25), nor by the fact that the New Testament books repeatedly refer to the "brothers of Jesus". [66] The words "before they came together" mean probably, "before they lived in the same house", referring to the time when they were merely betrothed; but even if the words be understood of marital intercourse, they only state that the Incarnation took place before any such intercourse had intervened, without implying that it did occur after the Incarnation of the Son of God. [67]

The same must be said of the expression, "and he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son" (Matthew 1:25); the Evangelist tells us what did not happen before the birth of Jesus, without suggesting that it happened after his birth. [68] The name "firstborn" applies to Jesus whether his mother remained a virgin or gave birth to other children after Jesus; among the Jews it was a legal name [69], so that its occurrence in the Gospel cannot astonish us.

Finally, the "brothers of Jesus" are neither the sons of Mary, nor the brothers of Our Lord in the proper sense of the word, but they are His cousins or the more or less near relatives. [70] The Church insists that in His birth the Son of God did not lessen but consecrate the virginal integrity of His mother (Secret in Mass of Purification). The Fathers express themselves in similar language concerning this privilege of Mary

the problem with these protestants dumb azzes is they are not here to learn, but to ridicule and insults like automats what they don't know and understand. their pastchieves told them to rubbish the Catholic church under the pretext that. Catholic are weak in their faith or don't know the Bible(the same bible we wrote lmao) see one of them using the bible to talk bad about the church funny mofo

The most funny thing about those rebels(protestants & co) is their teachings is centered on insulting Catholics like for real, we freed you stop talking about us, we don't care about u, nonentity trying to stay relevant. why do u think they created the word Christian? ah ah . talk with a protestant and ask him to convince you to join his church. he will start with Catholics do this Catholics do that, idols this ,idols that ..Mary blah blah..like i said their whole life is centered around talking about Catholics

Kan all d protestantz and paganz jst shut up!!!

You need no answer, lack of understanding is your greatest problem. Nobdy prays in Mary's name. Worship your God the way you want & stop unnecesary criticism.

Acidosis:

Assuming they can hear your prayers (just like any other dead 'immortal' being).. Why pray to them if you can pray directly to God? After all the bible says theres no mediator between men and God, and the only way to God is through Jesus - "NO ONE COME TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

My answer is straight forward, we don't worship Mary we honour her, because she is the mother of Jesus, don't you honour your own parents? And we ask mary to pray for us, pls don't you also tell your pastors, friends and parents to pray for you. So why the confusion?

[i][/i]Honour only theHonour only theHonour only the Lord ur God

The rosary is a very powerful prayer: its a long story but it happened to me in china, i had a kind of spiritual attack while defending the catholic faith on yahoo catholic chat room also had some issues with the Buddhist so i became really afraid that something bad might happen to me so i went to a church and told the priest there that i need to go to confession because am afraid i might die so the priest told me catholics doesn't die like that and he will not hear my confession because i was
living together with my chinese girlfriend so he gave me a rosary and catechism of cathic doctrine whichi is written in english and Chinese, i still have the book till now, he then prayed for me and i left as i was reaching to my house, i started saying the rosary and there was a lake near the place i was living so as was about to pass near the lale still praying behold i saw what i beleive to be a demon living in the lake rose from the lake and left with speed, i keep praying till i reached my apartment and the first thing on my
yahoo chat was filled with the holy Spirit, written by some weird people who are always on catholic chat room, a lot happened after then but that story for another day,

It is shameful to hear the pentecostal(am a C.A.C member) n protestant speak lyk this,arguing blantaly n manipulating the holy scripture..buh before going futher read abt a man(wounded soldier during the WW2) Who had encounter with THE MOTHER MARY n was healed by her,by search online(google) 'mystery behind the santuary of our lady,lienchen,poland' that is how pics of MARY came into being..i learnt the HOLY MOTHER even communicate with the CANNOS spiritually

jamp: The question is in d name of mary what will happen?


The answer is no knee will bow simple.

That's what we catholic preach. Only in Jesus name knees will bow

good answer

bukatyne:

Are you comparing the expression 'mother of my Lord' to 'mother of God'? How can Mary be the mother of God? Mary was the mother of Jesus the man and not Jesus the second person in the trinity

Olodo,when David was unda the spirit,he said the Lord said to my Lord,who was he refering to,Jesse? Mtchew! Mumu ni eyin Protestant yi. You guys are the one forcing the false doctrine on us. U ask a catholic,why do u worship mary,he says he doesnt worshp her,he honours her. Then you stil go ahead and say as far as you are concern,u worshp her. Does that make sense? Whch part of the word not worshp u do not get? Ok,maybe this wil give u rest. The Catholic apostle CREED is thr 4 u to read. So stop arguing.

Acidosis:
Okay I'll help you here:

"While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd [I believe shes the founder of catholic] raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” But ...He said,
“On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.'" Luke 11:27-28 Worship, honour, glory and praise are due to
God alone. He commands it.

If anyone has any Bible verses to contradict this... please feel free! Please only verses, not opinions. I've yet to find anywhere in the Bible that says honour of anykind is due to Mary.

This is a gross misconception of the word of God and plain IDOLATRY! ... and the sad thing, you'll never see this truth except you remove the veil of religion!

gree-die... read that bible verse again! Its soo clear Jesus contradicted that woman immediately! Like he knew some people would follow her steps...

Mary has no power to bless anyone... Shes powerless and helpless... She cannot help herself let alone the over 1billion worshippers..

What else do you want to hear?

GOD BLESS YOU MY BROTHER. What i ve seen in the bible is Jesus saying- whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that i will do. He never mentioned Mary's name and we cant add what Jesus did not add in that command. Our Lords prayer never suggested Mary's name either.

Msgamble: It is shameful to hear the pentecostal(am a C.A.C member) n protestant speak lyk this,arguing blantaly n manipulating the holy scripture..buh before going futher read abt a man(wounded soldier during the WW2) Who had encounter with THE MOTHER MARY n was healed by her,by search online(google) 'mystery behind the santuary of our lady,lienchen,poland' that is how pics of MARY came into being..i learnt the HOLY MOTHER even communicate with the CANNOS spiritually

Which Mary? Queen of the coast.

vicope:

Congrat.ulations! You just won the IGNORAMUS PAR EXCELLENCE award. What an height of deception? May God enlighten you. That's all!

May God enlighten you too, AMEN