This is a respond to the topic: Debunking The Myth Of Money Ritual: Is It Real?

First of all, I clarify that I hold no absolute authority on the true nature of this subject. My submission so far is based on years of observations, trend, deductions, logic and my undying interest in African metaphysics and esoteric knowledge, specifically in what I have termed Yoruba Advanced Sciences erroneously known to many as Juju (a term of french origin).

The purpose of creating this thread is to enlighten those who don't know or are usually confused about what it is meant by 'Money Ritual'. This thread does not seek the opinion of those black Africans who ONLY judge and measure this world and it reality by the theology of Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity and Islam).

Once again, who am I, well I am your regular Nigeria youth that you can come across with in the street or sit beside with on a molue bus sweating with the rest of the tired passengers heading home from a hard day work.

At a tender age, I have since dropped fantasy, fictions and comics stuff only to gradually delve my attention to seemingly mysterious stuff by fixing my mind and studies to whatever could shed illumination on disturbing and mind-boggling happenings whose nature and purpose for occurring is left to the native traditionalists known as the Babalawos who are completely different from the Oniṣeguns.

Money Ritual which is different from, is very often times used interchangeably with the term 'Blood Money' to confer the same meaning when actually they are completely different in meaning.


Blood Money:
Blood Money can be defined as any method of possessing money through means that either directly or indirectly involves the shedding of human blood. For instance those mafias in Europe and Russia, gangsters and kingpins in USA and drug lords in Latin world all whom are involve in illegal drug trade and trafficking, can be argued to be indulging in blood money because their wealth/money is tied to countless loss of lives. A hired gun, a mercenary, an hit-man, an assassin can all be said to be involve in Blood Money even an armed robber who has taken human life before in the process of acquiring money.

I hope with that cleared, I can now proceed to explain what is meant by Money Ritual.

Money Ritual
The Yoruba generic word for it is Ògun Ówó. Money Ritual can be accepted as the proper English translation of the word 'Ògun Òwó' which I can define as any supernatural means of acquiring whatever symbolizes Ówó money, through the application of certain arcane knowledge known only to the practitioners of a branch of iṣegun (Yoruba Esoteric Knowledge)

Esoteric refers to knowledge unavailable to everyone. For instance everyone knows how to boil Yam with water which makes it an Exoteric knowledge, however someone once proved to me that it is also possible to boil a Yam without the application of water, and he did it, now that's Esoteric. No, he insisted he wasn't going to teach me the procedure of how it was done and I respect that.

If Ogun Owo is the Yoruba generic word for Money Ritual, then you should know in Yoruba esoteric parlance, the technical word for it is Osholẹ.

Osholẹ as it is called among the Oniseguns (practitioners of Ogun (supernatural magic)), is a sub-branch of Isegun (craft of Ogun) that encompasses all the metaphysical knowledges of acquiring Owo in a shortcut manner. According to my very limited, uneasy and painful researches I have come to realise that the more effective the results of a type of Oshole is, the more it diabolic requirements and consequence.

A sound Babalawo (an Ifa priest/practitioner) knows more about isegun, their true nature, intricacies and repercussions, that's why a true Babalawo must and will never do Oshole for an asking client, since it is a direct violation of Ifa teaching and ethics. Only the Oniseguns are the ones doing it, and often times a self-compromised Babalawo.

It is a shame that many Yorubas as reflected on Nairaland carries enough knowledge about semitic cultures but knows very little or nothing about theirs just like the differences I have just explained above and many more about the nature, order, purpose and hierarchy of their traditionalists who are the keeper of their culture. Worst of it all are the so called Yoruba speaking movies, especially the mount zion flicks that demonises everything about the Yoruba traditions they do not understand. The Chinese have the Shoguns and Japanese the Samurais and yet never denigrates it just like the Europeans still celebrates 'head hunting'. Without deviating further, let us now unravel the efficacy of Money Ritual or Osholẹ.

First of all, Osholẹ is by no means recommended nor will it be recommended by an Ifa priest when consulting over an issue relating to lack of money or financial problems. There are better alternatives of no consequence proposed by the Ifa priest to a visiting consulter. However, since it takes an Onisegun or a corrupt Babalawo to do it, I'm afraid that it does truly exist and works but not in the way Nollywood and urban legend have exaggerated it. Let those who disbelief in it be informed.

There are minor types of Osholẹthat are prepared in the form of Ose and Aseje for the client to bath with, at times on specified days, these types are mostly to draw Aje (fortune/prospect), it progresses like that up, it's like a spectrum of grades. The higher up it goes, the dire the condition. The underlying problem with Osholẹ is that of all other branches of iseguns; that is they do not last long and for some that seem to, there always afflicted with various factors like; period of potency, conditions, precautions, warnings, renewal due to expiration, grave consequences and dire repercussions for those who offers it knows that nothing goes for nothing otherwise they themselves would have been richer than Bill Gates.

Another inherent problem about all types of Osholẹ is the fact that those whom it had worked for can't come out to attest to it just like those who have attempted it and didn't work. You see. This will bring us to the issue of understands that if it works

Money ritual aka Ogun Owo aka Osholẹ, in all its forms, versions and variety are one way or the other malevolent in the sense that, it is inherent with a drive that readily intoxicates it indulgers with a craving to always upgrading to the major ones for the uncontrolled love for money which makes it completely diabolical, selfish and evil. It takes someone who is either uncontented, impatient, greedy, desperate or frustrated to resort to money ritual, and the Oniseguns are ever available to render it.

According to an Ifa odu , it is sang that Owo (an irunmole) was the only one who ever challenged the Yoruba supreme God by placing itself before Olodumare as been more popular than Olodumare among humans for which Olodumare cursed Owo to forever seek and be sought after by the same humans that bestow Owo it fame. Till this day Owo is sought after by almost every humans and those who know the secrets of invoking Owo and its manipulatives are those I have been talking about since.

If a true Babalawo is consulted about money matters, just like any other matters such as child bearing, spiritual metaphysical protection, or just mere inquiry about the future, he must first check the consulter's[i]ori[/i] to know what it current configuration reads in respect to the consulted matter. Then, a sequence of rites commences, this is done to seek understanding and possible solution to the matter. In the case of having debilitating financial problems, it is from the consulter's ori an answer is provided. Ori in this context does not mean the physical head but one's eleda. According to Ifa teachings, it isn't everybody that is meant to be stupendously rich and wealthy. It is sang that everyone one of us before conception had chosen been opportuned to chose one out of the three types of destiny from ajule orun before manifesting into the physical world from the womb. Some people like Denlere have chosen that 'na thru madness me I won go take make my success' and so shall it be enforced by a particular irunmole whose name I can't remember now but always at the te between ajule-orun and ile aye (Earth).. For some they've chosen a destiny to be rich at a very young age by either being born into a wealthy family whose parent will open a far account for, or doing something that earns him/her steady wealth (Seun/Zukerberg/Walcott), and their others whose destiny is to make it at a late period (Fatai Rolling Dollar). But most importantly Ifa states: everyone is bound to be monetarily rich in a relative manner at some particular point in time in their designated life from ajule-orun, it is that time we don't know, that's why we ought to be patient and hardworking. It is that time a particular version of Oshole fastforward to, and bring all the money the partaker is meant to have, over a period of his/her future time, to the immediate now and spends because he/she couldn't bear being intimidate with cars and material things on campus. That would have being better since he/she would alone suffer gross penury in his/her future time being the limitation and consequence of that type, but as I said when the money is exhausted, he/she would start a journey of searching for another Onisegun who knows of another shortcut to acquire Owo until they reach those ones who knows one of the major types that demands the head of human that is destined to have money. It doesn't always play out like this, there are other major types of Oshole that require either oneself part or if providable that of others. Which is why they are corpses with missing body parts all over Nigeria. Eyes, tongues, breasts, genitals, fingers, livers, kidneys, hearts, legs, hands etc.

Some of you rationalists can be tempted to think it's all bullshit, trying to rationalise that those corpses whose body parts have been removed are done by those in the organ harvesting business crime. The answer is an emphatic NO!, I am not saying Nigeria haven't being experiencing the 'invasion of the body part snatchers' or there aren't those who voluntarily sell their kidneys to Malaysia agents/buyers, but still before them has being existing organised syndicate of people who make the same money we're talking about by severing and providing human body parts through kidnapping and abductions among several methods.

I have a friend who strongly believes that they shouldn't be call money ritualist but serial killers because he is unable to wrap his mind around why would someone kill another human only to sever the head off or cut some part(s) for the purpose of magically converting it to money or selling to those who indulge in such still beats him.

The shocking truth is that those who patronise this means are mostly Christians and Muslims, both their youths and adults and ofcourse in secret, for no traditionalist or what you like to call pagans will readily indulge in it for they no better. Believe it or not, Money Ritual is a reality and it is as real as Boko Haram.

There used to be those who are called Yahoo!(TM) Yawu Boys who used deception to dupe unsuspecting people over the internet. Ever since people, mostly whites have been enlightened to beware of their schemes, tricks and ploy, the game hasn't been the same for these Yawu boys whose purpose of existence is a reflection of our bad excuse for a country, as they couldn't standby and watch what they consider as their only means of survival, most gradually turned into the application of 'tibile' to aid their online careers by turning to the use of isegun in love/dating scams, phony business dealings, etc. Calling it Yawu Plus. The fallout of these metamorphosis is that a considerable lot of these Yawu Yawu Bois have and are getting railroaded into Money Rituals and now disguises their wealth and money as Yawu money.

Finally, there are lots of 419 con-artist who also disguises as Babalawo and Onisegun by presenting themselves as bona fide money ritualists for the unsuspecting sucker who is going to be asked to soil his/her hand in committing murder only to be further blackmailed to cough out more money or risk exposing his/her secret until he/she finds another gullible victim to be replaced with., thus generating an endless cycle where desperate money seekers are exploited and conned.

¤Ori:
It is the life force and path instructor that each and every humans is uniquely created of by our respective eleda.

¤Irunmoles:
Dateless primordial entities from ajule-orun or outer world. According to Ifa, were said to be 400 in numbers who were missioned in batches at various times to Ile-aye (Earth) by God (Olodumare/Eledumare).

Irunmoles which is a bit different from Orishas are both uniquely Yorubas and are not demons nor wraiths nor titans nor gods. Irunmoles are Irunmoles.
Irunmole (singular), Irunmoles (plural)

Excellent thread brother. FRONT PAGE MATERIAL .

btw the Samurai and the Shogunate are the same thing. THe Shogun are the SAmurai Chiefs. thats all. They are Japanese.

First came the Emperor:




then on almost equal terms with the Emperor (before the MEiji Restoration) . THE SHOGUN :

[img]http://bhoffert.faculty.noctrl.edu/hst263/Tokugawa.Ieyasu.jpg[/img]
The Great Shogun Emperor and defender of the Pagan Japanese faith, SHOGUN TOKUGAWA IEYASU

then the DAIMYO, powerful feudal Lords:




ad then the brave warrior knights, THE SAMURAI:

Ogwu ego kwa? O nwe ihe inyi akpavo?

Really insightful,though OP failed to address where the money ll come from after the severed human parts is given to the babalawo.
Is it through winning contracts never applied for?
Receiving credit alert on a daily basis from unknown source?
Customers quadrupling on a daily basis, if into buying and selling?
A head in the cupboard vomiting money as seen in Nollywood?

Pls OP try and address this, then I ll ask the next set of questions, seems you are really knowledgeable in IFA, I won't mind having a book myself

Silly Posts are making it to the front page at the expense of thought provoking posts like this one. I only hope this forum will not end up in the world of mediocrity.

It is irrational for any African to think that ritual money does not exist. it is a fact that cannot be hidden.

Ogbeche77: Really insightful,though OP failed to address where the money ll come from after the severed human parts is given to the babalawo.

And why do you still deliberately ascribe Babalawos as the sole doer of Money Ritual when I have clarified that particular widespread assumption you seem unable to eradicate from your Nollywood brainwashed mindset? I even went as far as to carefully explain who Babalawos are, supposedly should be, differentiating them from the Oniseguns who are the main indulgers of this heinous act and yet decided to misuse the Yoruba term 'Babalawo' because you just like many think it is cool to spoil their name as the Nigerian churches are always fond of, the same churches attended by some people who have used isegun to acquire wealth, success, power, positions, etc only to hypocritically give credit to the semitic deities of the Abrahamic religions and appreciations in the siphoning form of tithes and offerings. Well done.

Another fact you need to know is that so called educated Yorubas and non-Yorubas who patronizes both the Babalawos and Oniseguns for various purposes do not know the differences between the two and care less in knowing. Also, Afas in Yorubaland are the equivalent of the Christian pastors and in certain respect Islamic spiritualists, however, and as a matter of the fact, there are many Oniseguns that some Yoruba people just call 'Afa' because they borrow certain Yoruba esoteric knowledge to be combined with Islamic mysticism (dud) in order to appeal to patronizing Yoruba muslim clients, the point is many of this Afas are the major driving force of Money Ritual in Yorubaland.

Ogbeche77:
Is it through winning contracts never applied for?

Yes, there are Oguns (magic powers) that can be used to win contract or anything pertaining to negotiations, which is different from Money Rituals. There are Yawu boys and some deceptionists who use them too, but there's bound to be grave repercussion on the side of the users for whatever has been forced to yield must eventually equilibriumate. That is one of the laws of supernatural magic (which is different from trick/stage magic invented and practised mostly by whites for the purpose of amusement and entertainments)

Ogbeche77: Receiving credit alert on a daily basis from unknown source?

Would you believe such ridiculous claim? Well you could if you were offered by 419ers posed as Babalawos or Oniseguns with the aid of those types of Juju I classified under the Mayehuns. Despite the overwhelming powers of the jujus belonging to this class, they can be overcome depending on the strength at which your mind draws on reason and logic.

Ogbeche77: Customers quadrupling on a daily basis, if into buying and selling?

Despite your exaggeration, there are Juju such as the Aworos and the likes used to pull crowd, congregation, customers. They have their conditions and repercussions.

Ogbeche77: A head in the cupboard vomiting money as seen in Nollywood?

There's no damn head in any cupboard that vomits cash, is there no end to your Nollywood stylised thinking?

I know this may sound gross and grotesque but for the purpose of enlightenment those confused people on the other thread, what the severed head is used for depends on the type of Oshole involved., the human head is but one of other components needed for the preparation of the evil procedure. If you ask me to go into the methodological 'into-to' of how the money ritual is done, I'm sorry I do not know because I haven't done it before, will never indulge in it, and I'm certain my anti-scientific curiosity will never lead me there but I have this to say: If any white or African-American disbeliever happen to read all this and still doubts, I urge him/her to appeal to any of their several communities/society of debunkers, myth-busters, skeptics, atheists, rationalists, psycho-analysts, scientists and anti-paranormalist, to ask their government to grant a huge amount of money to the family of a convicted death-row prisoner awaiting execution in exchange for consenting to volunteer himself/herself for the verification of this money ritual thing in Yorubaland, after all their government invest heavily on science/tech research and development unlike ours who have endorsed corruption by perfecting the art of embezzling and laundering public funds and states money.

Ogbeche77: Pls OP try and address this, then I ll ask the next set of questions, seems you are really knowledgeable in IFA, I won't mind having a book myself

You also asked me to address where the money will come from. Where do you think the money will come from? Thin air? Forex? The mountain? The ethers? Ofcourse it's from the bank and wherever, whatever symbolises 'Owo' is manufactured or made massively. There are big and small companies that make hell of money, there are financial institutions including banks, insurance companies and even the central bank whose officials would be scratching their head over how certain huge amount of money can't be accounted for during their annual review or whatever it's termed.

It is 'Owo' the Oniseguns would command through the use of incantation specific to the particular Oshole in progress, some Oshole isn't about commanding Owo itself but of manipulating extreme forces yet unknown to science though collectively personified as 'awon emi ayiri' which means unseen entities, whose respective Yoruba names are known to the Onisegun practitioners who at specific time invokes/summons the entity associated with the Oshole involved through the chanting of powerful incantations specific to the Oshole in progress in order to be either commanded, tricked, blackmailed or manipulated to always go and search and deliver physical money wherever it is on behalf of the client when called upon (where the client would be taught the lock and unlocking code through recitation i.e. the few incantations to utter in order to operate it wherever it is kept in the house when in need of Owo (money)). There is another evil version belonging to the major ones where the name of the human used is somehow metaphysically impressed into the ritual procession wherein all the client need do at home whenever in need of money (Owo) is to visit the ritualised human juju at a given time and commands that name with learned incantation to fetch him/her physical money wherever it is. The two highlighted are not how all major Osholes are effectuated as there are various types of both minor and major Osholes with their respective configurations, rites and ofcourse deadly repercussions.

There are some minor Oshole types known by its Oniseguns where the ritual money seeker would be provided with the option of using a part of their physical body (thumbs, toes, strip of flesh) for the money ritual wherein the further it decomposes the higher their shot at acquiring money (some Yawu boys do these types), there is another minor one wherein animals such as tortoise and special but rare to find birds are used in the money ritual process, there are other minor types wherein powerful rings are specially prepared whose sole purpose is to render enchantment over a to-be-victim of any of the numerous online scam (some Yawu boys use this on their magas) the endgame is still to make money, which can be argued also as money ritual, there's another in which I don't know if I should consider it minor or major since it involves the ritual money seeking male to offer his 'fertility essence' in the form of semen in exchange for tremendous but time-limited wealth, there's another I also don't know where to classify it but which involves certain thing I haven't found out but with the condition that the ritual money seeker must spend completely all the money the entity fetches him that particular day otherwise he/she is done for, there are two variant of that particular type with an almost similar condition which is of not coming back home with any remainder of the money belonging to that which the entity brought forth, the other being unable to spend the money on people you know such as friends, family and relatives, there is another belonging to the major types renderable by those Oniseguns who knows about it, wherein the money ritual seeker would be checked, and if qualified by the required pre-condition, will be told he/she can't be rich since he/she isn't destined to be opulent unless they have someone he/she loves the most, (which he/she actually does have, being that the ori they choose from ajule-orun is to meet/be with their earth love partner) which has to be substituted for 'Owo'.

The underlying principle about Ogun Owo is the Ori, there was this married Ijebu man who had serious financial issues and eventually opted for MR, whether it was a minor or major type I wouldn't know but what happened was that the Oshole involved was in the form of an Ose (Yoruba word for soap) given to him by one of the many trial-and-error money rituals Oniseguns to be used whenever he wants to take his bath and instead of working for good became more impoverished, he stopped using it, his wife who wasn't aware about the sopa or what her husband had done began to use it, and since then on, different customers after buying provisions from her started giving her money without her asking, at times for no obvious reason, up to an extent some would just drive by and just dash her huge amounts of money after buying petty items from her, her husband noticed this and enquired from her only to discover that she's being using that soap, they both clung tighter to each other and became very rich. The point is about the 'Ori', some people's 'Eleda' didn't chose or include stupendous 'Owo' into their 'Ori' when coming from 'Ajule-Orun' to 'Aye', but while the 'Ori' of 95% of humans were optimally chosen for by various presiding eledas (Orishas and Irunmoles), most will unknowingly involve themselves in various Ewos (taboos) that delays their Eleda-given/Ori-chosen destinies including some of the remaining 5% who have chosen or preordained to be stupendously rich which is the case of that real life event about that husband whose destiny doesn't include being rich in his Ori make-up but whose wife it does and according to Ifa, there are some people whose Odu decodes that he/she is bound to excel or become rich only when the right life-partner is met, and to do this, provided the Ori hasn't being too damaged, one just need to 'Bo Ori' hence Ori laa ba bọ ka fi iwakuwa silẹ (We should instead charge our Ori rather than searching for shortcuts).

All in all, Ogun-owo aka money ritual is B arbaric A bysmal D estructive. Why? There was this fairly old man whom I pressed to disagree way back, that people who does money ritual are fools because I thought it was a ruse and he told me that he personally had an Ewọn (long chain) that whenever he wants needs money, all he needed to do early in the morning is to drag his Ewọn (juju) around the open compound before anyone wakes up, and that before that day is over, he must realise lots of money somehow, I was still very skeptical about his claim until when I asked how could that be possible and he revealed that he must have money due to the power of the juju chain but at the expense of his surrounding neighbors remaining seriously broke for some period, then I quickly remembered my pal who live close to that place who always complain to me about why he is unable to account for how he spent his salary and that he wasn't supposed to be penniless.

It's just pure evil and it does not worth it. Some do lure their friends into committing some of the minor Osholes, bearing in mind the consequence but will nevertheless do it because of so many reasons I consider unjustifiable, well it's true that 'Money is the root of all evil'. Another important thing to understand is that because a lot of people are not patient in this festering nation, especially most of us youths who want to live luxurious lifestyle, drive exotic cars, live in a mansion, or in short just want to satisfy a desire to spend, spend and spend money in clubs, at ladies, showing-off by lavishing, these are mostly the kinds who ends up at this short-cut avenue, without knowing whether if their 'ori' and 'eleda' carries such destiny, which in no time they agree to murder in the name of money ritual, driven by their uncontrolled lust for money such that they deprive other's from fulfilling their 'ori' destiny, enjoying life at the expense of others misery whose husband, sons, daughters, wife are reported missing or found mutilated thinking they they ought not to be a consequence.

What other questions do you have, and I hope they aren't Nollywood inspired?

As an atheist, I of course disagree with the existence of spirits whatsoever.

But as a yoruba person, I love and want to learn more about Ifa and other Yoruba Gods. I must confess that I know more about the Jewish monster called yaweh and the Arabic vampire called allah.

I disagree with the veracity of money ritual because it cannot be shown to logically be true without belief in some spirit system

It involves frauds/death of one person for wealth of another, I know Eledumare to be a good God, He will not allow that.

Irumoles cannot be proven to exist.

Therefore, there is nothing like money rituals, only hard work pays.

your opinion. Good so you are Yoruba. Yorubas tend to have this intellectual blood. It runs in them. Their belief system is itself proof.

ofcourse this might be base generalization and I might be wrong, but just saying this out of experience.

btw Olodumare is neither good nor bad. Olodumare is just right.

PAGAN 9JA:
your opinion. Good so you are Yoruba. Yorubas tend to have this intellectual blood. It runs in them. Their belief system is itself proof.

ofcourse this might be base generalization and I might be wrong, but just saying this out of experience.

btw Olodumare is neither good nor bad. Olodumare is just right.

Of course am Yoruba.

sorry but I do not see how someone will be right without being good first.

- UNINTENDED RESPONSE WAS MISTAKENLY POSTED HERE -

ok

RIP to Heath Leadger, the actor clapping below who died of hard-drug overdose from substance abuse #BloodMoneyPeople

PAGAN 9JA:
btw the Samurai and the Shogunate are the same thing. THe Shogun are the SAmurai Chiefs. thats all. They are Japanese.

Appreciate the call to correction but I forgot what the ancient Chinese military class were called?

ooman: As an atheist, I of course disagree with the existence of spirits whatsoever.

My response to the bolded ^:
I consider myself an A'theist (Aborisha Theist) while you, supposedly a Yoruba African think yourself an Atheist (those who don't subscribe to any sort of theistic assertions such as the believe in the existence of deities (God, gods and divinities), and also the disbelief in ridiculous claims unprovable by science such as miracles supernatural magic and the paranormal), if so, did you happen to watch a video sometimes ago wherein two fornicators were jujufiedly glued together? Can science provide an explanation to that? Don't tell me that penis captivus crap, can science provide an explanation to some element of people among us in Yorubaland and Igboland whose skin and body have been rendered impervious to bullets and machete cuts? Can science throw explanation to preternatural feats some deep-rooted Babalawos, Oniseguns and certain agbas (very old folks) in remote villages underdeveloped by government, all whom still possesses esoteric knowledge on how to vanish or become invisible, effectuate teleportations or walk through wall among several others? I know you won't believe and that's why I exist, because one day you all religious and scientific disbelievers in Nigeria and abroad will have nothing to say when you watch it on YouTube after reading my book either in form of a blog or paperback, I can't say for now but would be titled 'Why I Am Yet To Be An Atheist, Enter: Yoruba Advanced Sciences', and ofcourse it's also going to be published on Nairaland too.

ooman: As an atheist, I of course disagree with the existence of spirits whatsoever.

My response to the bolded ^:
I also don't like using the term spirit since a whole lot of people don't even understand the concept of what should be addressed as 'spirit', therefore let me enlighten you a bit so you will hopefully stop getting it twisted like them religionists do, before I continue, note that I want your mind removed from the kind of spirit the religionists refers to i.e. the human kind of spirit that the Bible always illustrate to be in need of redemption and salvation. The Christian spirit is a concept I find not only illogical ut also self-contradictory because, why should after death, one's spirit will be liberated from the same body whose mind was never aware of when the body was alive and conscious, only to chart it own path, also more confusing is it divine association with no other God but the Abrahamic God, I wonder if that could be said of the spirit of those that should be called murderapists many of whom can found at murderpedia.org...

...Without deviating further, let come back to the true concept of what a spirit is, Spirits are umastered energies, what do I mean by that, well I would explain it in detail in a book I am still researching and writing. But note that Sorcerers Arcanists from ancient cultures throughout the world especially those of the Yorubas have studied, understood and personified various forms of these hidden energies/forces, these super-intelligent humans mastered and enforced them with identities only to be summoned by the initiates belonging to various esoteric schools groups scattered around the world since time memorial. As I gradually take you to the realm of metaphysics, I want you to note that these forces are ONLY set to task by those who have truly mastered and can control them otherwise it will consume its wielder. It is some of these suspended personified forces that different folks from different parts of the world tend to call 'spirit' when experienced. Note that the concept of a ghost and the soul are completely different from 'spirit'. Think of spirits as energies/forces yet unknown to science just like the scientifically known forces maintaining the dynamics of an air-craft or the energies that are set to task in your USB flash-drive in the form electricity.

ooman: But as a yoruba person, I love and want to learn more about Ifa and other Yoruba Gods.

Why would a disbelieving Yoruba atheist want to waste his time learning about the Yoruba's Ifa and Gods Irunmoles /Orishas? Unless you wouldn't mind becoming like me, an A'theist (Supernaturalism - Religion x Science).

ooman: I must confess that I know more about the Jewish monster called yaweh and the Arabic vampire called Allah.

Sorry I am not a father confessor...

ooman: I disagree with the veracity of money ritual because it cannot be shown to logically be true without belief in some spirit system

Leaving the spirit system out of this for now, what do you actually mean? Is it that money ritual can't be performed or it isn't just true?

ooman: It involves frauds/death of one person for wealth of another, I know Eledumare to be a good God, He will not allow that.

Why are you just reiterating what I have explained already explained before, because I can't see any question here. Secondly, please be corrected about Eledumare/Olodumare because according, to Ifa; there's not odu that describe the sex of Olodumare/Eldedumare, it's even stated that no one, even the Irunmoles and Orishas have seen IT before, for it has no gender, it is only the Abrahamic God that has and is still continue to be addressed as a 'he' implying that their monotheistic God(Yawheh/Allah) is a male. According to Yoruba cosmogony, as repositoried in Ifa, all matters concerning morality, ethics, good and evil are left to 400 Irunmoles in their respective departments. Eledumare/Olodumare doesn't share the same moral dictatorship with the Abrahamic God, and also doesn't have a permanent adversary or any adversary at all, aside from the Irunmole Owo (money) whom according to Ifa defied Olodumare/Eledumare and was hence cursed to seek and be sought after by the same humans he proclaimed before Olodumare/Eledumare to more popular than, other than that, Eleduamre/Olodumare has no enemies, not even an approximate equivalent of the Abrahamic Satan the Devil.

ooman: Irumoles cannot be proven to exist.

What would you like to bet with? and it shall be proven to you that not only do they exist, they are everywhere to be harnessed and tapped by those who can.

ooman: Therefore, there is nothing like money rituals, only hard work pays.

You seem to be mixing things up big time, if you believe there's nothing like money ritual, fine, it's 4:21 AM now, drowsy and tired of typing over a slow connection, I have done my own bit by freely clarifying and explaining years of personal research and observation all in a bid to enlighten those who are confused about Bebe2's misleading topic of which, ever since it popped up on the front page, haven't slept properly, wasting my life trying not to convince you but inform you.

GOOD MORNING
Zzzzzzz!

ooman:

Of course am Yoruba.

sorry but I do not see how someone will be right without being good first.

for example, many a times, you have good intentions, but they are wrong and lead to wrong things.

there has to be a balance.

ghostofsparta:
Appreciate the call to correction but I forgot what the ancient Chinese military class were called?


My response to the bolded ^:
I consider myself an A'theist (Aborisha Theist) while you, supposedly a Yoruba African think yourself an Atheist (those who don't subscribe to any sort of theistic assertions such as the believe in the existence of deities (God, gods and divinities), and also the disbelief in ridiculous claims unprovable by science such as miracles supernatural magic and the paranormal), if so, did you happen to watch a video sometimes ago wherein two fornicators were jujufiedly glued together? Can science provide an explanation to that? Don't tell me that penis captivus crap, can science provide an explanation to some element of people among us in Yorubaland and Igboland whose skin and body have been rendered impervious to bullets and machete cuts? Can science throw explanation to preternatural feats some deep-rooted Babalawos, Oniseguns and certain agbas (very old folks) in remote villages underdeveloped by government, all whom still possesses esoteric knowledge on how to vanish or become invisible, effectuate teleportations or walk through wall among several others? I know you won't believe and that's why I exist, because one day you all religious and scientific disbelievers in Nigeria and abroad will have nothing to say when you watch it on YouTube after reading my book either in form of a blog or paperback, I can't say for now but would be titled 'Why I Am Yet To Be An Atheist, Enter: Yoruba Advanced Sciences', and ofcourse it's also going to be published on Nairaland too.


My response to the bolded ^:
I also don't like using the term spirit since a whole lot of people don't even understand the concept of what should be addressed as 'spirit', therefore let me enlighten you a bit so you will hopefully stop getting it twisted like them religionists do, before I continue, note that I want your mind removed from the kind of spirit the religionists refers to i.e. the human kind of spirit that the Bible always illustrate to be in need of redemption and salvation. The Christian spirit is a concept I find not only illogical ut also self-contradictory because, why should after death, one's spirit will be liberated from the same body whose mind was never aware of when the body was alive and conscious, only to chart it own path, also more confusing is it divine association with no other God but the Abrahamic God, I wonder if that could be said of the spirit of those that should be called murderapists many of whom can found at murderpedia.org...

...Without deviating further, let come back to the true concept of what a spirit is, Spirits are umastered energies, what do I mean by that, well I would explain it in detail in a book I am still researching and writing. But note that Sorcerers Arcanists from ancient cultures throughout the world especially those of the Yorubas have studied, understood and personified various forms of these hidden energies/forces, these super-intelligent humans mastered and enforced them with identities only to be summoned by the initiates belonging to various esoteric schools groups scattered around the world since time memorial. As I gradually take you to the realm of metaphysics, I want you to note that these forces are ONLY set to task by those who have truly mastered and can control them otherwise it will consume its wielder. It is some of these suspended personified forces that different folks from different parts of the world tend to call 'spirit' when experienced. Note that the concept of a ghost and the soul are completely different from 'spirit'. Think of spirits as energies/forces yet unknown to science just like the scientifically known forces maintaining the dynamics of an air-craft or the energies that are set to task in your USB flash-drive in the form electricity.


Why would a disbelieving Yoruba atheist want to waste his time learning about the Yoruba's Ifa and Gods Irunmoles /Orishas? Unless you wouldn't mind becoming like me, an A'theist (Supernaturalism - Religion x Science).


Sorry I am not a father confessor...

Leaving the spirit system out of this for now, what do you actually mean? Is it that money ritual can't be performed or it isn't just true?

Why are you just reiterating what I have explained already explained before, because I can't see any question here. Secondly, please be corrected about Eledumare/Olodumare because according, to Ifa; there's not odu that describe the sex of Olodumare/Eldedumare, it's even stated that no one, even the Irunmoles and Orishas have seen IT before, for it has no gender, it is only the Abrahamic God that has and is still continue to be addressed as a 'he' implying that their monotheistic God(Yawheh/Allah) is a male. According to Yoruba cosmogony, as repositoried in Ifa, all matters concerning morality, ethics, good and evil are left to 400 Irunmoles in their respective departments. Eledumare/Olodumare doesn't share the same moral dictatorship with the Abrahamic God, and also doesn't have a permanent adversary or any adversary at all, aside from the Irunmole Owo (money) whom according to Ifa defied Olodumare/Eledumare and was hence cursed to seek and be sought after by the same humans he proclaimed before Olodumare/Eledumare to more popular than, other than that, Eleduamre/Olodumare has no enemies, not even an approximate equivalent of the Abrahamic Satan the Devil.


What would you like to bet with? and it shall be proven to you that not only do they exist, they are everywhere to be harnessed and tapped by those who can.


You seem to be mixing things up big time, if you believe there's nothing like money ritual, fine, it's 4:21 AM now, drowsy and tired of typing over a slow connection, I have done my own bit by freely clarifying and explaining years of personal research and observation all in a bid to enlighten those who are confused about Bebe2's misleading topic of which, ever since it popped up on the front page, haven't slept properly, wasting my life trying not to convince you but inform you.

GOOD MORNING
Zzzzzzz!

will reply soonest

PAGAN 9JA:



for example, many a times, you have good intentions, but they are wrong and lead to wrong things.

there has to be a balance.

If your so called good intentions lead to wrong things, then they are not as good as you think.

Good will always produce good, bad :- bad.

Maybe what we should debate is how we define good. Different definitions of a subject matter always lead to disagreements like this.

ghostofsparta:
Appreciate the call to correction but I forgot what the ancient Chinese military class were called?

well it depends on how ancient. CHina has always been the seat of political turmoil and ethnic tensions , when compared to Japans stable rule with only a single ethnic group.

If you take the recent Jurchen/Mongoloid Manchu rule, the Imperial Army was divide into Eight Banners, mostly oriented based on ethnicity. However during the Warlord Era of Plitical Turmoil, there were many Warlords who owed allegiance to the EMperor yet they were indepedent.

These were the Junfa or Warlords. They were divided into many powerful cliches ruled by famous families. The yare similar to Samurai.

ghostofsparta:

I consider myself an A'theist (Aborisha Theist) while you, supposedly a Yoruba African think yourself an Atheist (those who don't subscribe to any sort of theistic assertions such as the believe in the existence of deities (God, gods and divinities), and also the disbelief in ridiculous claims unprovable by science such as miracles supernatural magic and the paranormal), i

That still makes you a Pagan. A God is devoid of base emotions. The Gods are Spiritual Forces.

They influence material spheres. In Hausa, we call these Forces/Gods, Iska , meaning winds. winds of change.

2 long

Thank You Mukina. I saw you reading this thread.

OP, Aboru boye ooo.

ooman:

If your so called good intentions lead to wrong things, then they are not as good as you think.

Good will always produce good, bad :- bad.

Maybe what we should debate is how we define good. Different definitions of a subject matter always lead to disagreements like this.

this requires considerable debate.

Let me give you an example, say for example out of a feeling of goodness, a King decides to pardon a serial killer and r.apist. the same person later comes back and murders the King. His goodness was WRONG. He should have done the RIGHT think by being bad and killing the evil guy, without listening to his mercy pleas.

PAGAN 9JA:


this requires considerable debate.

Let me give you an example, say for example out of a feeling of goodness, a King decides to pardon a serial killer and r.apist. the same person later comes back and murders the King. His goodness was WRONG. He should have done the RIGHT think by being bad and killing the evil guy, without listening to his mercy pleas.

If the king pardons a serial killer/ra.pist, giving him freedom, then the king is not good enough in his judgment. The king has not done good in this regard but a great evil by letting a murderer go free.

The reason why anything is termed good is because it favours people

Anything that is good in itself cannot lead to evil

[size=18pt]HOW COME ALL THE NATIVE DOCTORS DOING MONEY RITUALS ARE POOR AND WRETCHED AND GOAT SMELLING IDOL WORSHIPERS? [/size]

I believe everything you have said and stated. Am a christian and I believe in God, but if there is good,there must also be evil. But please stop making too much fuse about being a Yoruba thing. Juju or magic is not just a yoruba thing but an African belief,even in Europe. Those names you have mentioned also exist in other tribes with different names. All the same, thanks I have learn a thing or two.

Interesting.

Life itself (starting with creation) , bible, Quora'n are full of mysteries.

I have 2 weak beliefs as per the existence of money ritual :
Vital body parts are removed and sold for money.
Its a cult whereby members contribute to a general pot then help new members and themselves from it.

Orikinla: [size=18pt]HOW COME ALL THE NATIVE DOCTORS DOING MONEY RITUALS ARE POOR AND WRETCHED AND GOAT SMELLING IDOL WORSHIPERS? [/size]

simple! OP has explained that 'they'( oniseguns and babalawos) understand the 'consequences' of doing such and would rather resort to 'less consequential means' such collecting money from would-be 'customers' e.t.c

Orikinla: [size=18pt]HOW COME ALL THE NATIVE DOCTORS DOING MONEY RITUALS ARE POOR AND WRETCHED AND GOAT SMELLING IDOL WORSHIPERS? [/size]

Have you met one yourself or speaking from "Nollywood" experience , grandpa?

Orikinla: [size=18pt]HOW COME ALL THE NATIVE DOCTORS DOING MONEY RITUALS ARE POOR AND WRETCHED AND GOAT SMELLING IDOL WORSHIPERS? [/size]

its a cursed existence. you will be rich but things will go wrong for you and you will never be satisfied inspite of all the wealth. luck will never be on your side. only the weak and foolish opt for this route.

There is nothing wrong with Idol Worship. Idol Worship is human nature. Its our way of paying homage to the Forces.

Hmm0hmmm ... See atheist disagreeing with themselves... Truly No one is ever right.

ooman:


If the king pardons a serial killer/ra.pist, giving him freedom, then the king is not good enough in his judgment. The king has not done good in this regard but a great evil by letting a murderer go free.

The reason why anything is termed good is because it favours people

Anything that is good in itself cannot lead to evil

The King probably did it out of pity for the family, or by seeing his wrteched pleas for forgiveness. Anyways this was just an example. there are many other such examples.

no being good is an act of goodness. you can even favour a criminal.