Frizy:

Hmm. 4Him/Lady/Imhotep

Well done. You guys don't have to divide yourselves concerning religion.

LOL.

Divisions in Christanity are not new. We are used to it =>

1 Cor 11: 18-19 =->

18 First of all, I hear that when you meet as a church there are divisions among you, and to a degree I believe it;
19 there have to be factions among you in order that (also) those who are approved among you may become known.

CHAPTER 53 SIGNS OF THE JUDGEMENT DAY(2)

"Before that day shall come," said Jesus, "great destruction shall come upon the world, for there shall be war so cruel and pitiless that the father shall slay the son, and the son shall slay the father by reason of the factions of peoples. Wherefore the cities shall be annihilated, and the country shall become desert. Such pestilences shall come that none shall be found to bear the dead to burial, so that they shall be left as food for beasts. To those who remain upon the earth

God shall send such scarcity that bread shall be valued above gold, and they shall eat all manner of unclean things. O miserable age, in which scarce any one shall be heard to say: "I have sinned, have mercy on me, O God"; but with horrible voices they shall blaspheme him who is glorious and blessed for ever.

After this, as that day draws near, for fifteen days, shall come every day a horrible sign over the inhabitants of the earth.

The first day the sun shall run its course in heaven without light, but black as the dye of cloth; and it shall give groans, as a father who groans for a son near to death. The second day the moon shall be turned into blood, and blood shall come upon the earth like dew. The third day the stars shall be seen to fight among themselves like an army of enemies. The fourth day the stones and rocks shall dash against each other as cruel enemies. The fifth day every plant and herb shall weep blood. The sixth day the sea shall rise without leaving its place to the height of one hundred and fifty cubits, and shall stand all day like a wall. The seventh day it shall on the contrary sink so

low as scarcely to be seen. The eighth day the birds and the animals of the earth and of the water shall gather themselves close together, and shall give forth roars and cries. The ninth day there shall be a hailstorm so horrible that it shall kill [such] that scarcely the tenth part of the living shall escape. The tenth day shall come such horrible lightning and thunder [such] that the third part of the mountains shall be split and scorched. The eleventh day every river shall run backwards, and shall run blood and not water. The twelfth day every created thing shall groan and cry. The thirteenth day the heaven shall be rolled up like a book, and it shall rain fire, so that every living thing shall die. The fourteenth day there shall be an earthquake so horrible that the tops of the mountains shall fly through the air like birds, and all the earth shall become a plain. The fifteenth day the holy angels shall die, and God alone shall remain alive; to whom be honour and glory."

And having said this, Jesus smote his face with both his hands, and then smote the ground with his head. And having raised his head, he said: "Cursed be every one who shall insert into my sayings that I am the son of God." At these words the disciples fell down as dead, whereupon Jesus lifted them up, saying: 'Let us fear God now, if we would not be affrighted in that day.'

CHAPTER 54 OF THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT

When these signs be passed, there shall be darkness over the world forty years, God alone being alive, to whom be honour and glory forever. When the forty years have passed, God shall give life to his Messenger, who shall rise again like the sun, but resplendent as a thousand suns. He shall sit, and shall not speak, for he shall be as it were beside himself. God shall raise again the four angels favoured of God, who shall seek the Messenger of God, and, having found him, shall

station themselves on the four sides of the place to keep watch upon him. Next shall God give life to all the angels, who shall come like bees circling round the Messenger of God. Next shall God give life to all his prophets, who, following Adam, shall go every one to kiss the hand of the Messenger of God, committing themselves to his protection. Next shall God give life to all the elect, who shall cry out: "O Muhammad be mindful of us!" At whose cries pity shall awake in the

Messenger of God, and he shall consider what he ought to do, fearing for their salvation.

Next shall God give life to every created thing and they shall return to their former existence, but every one shall besides possess the power of speech. Next shall God give life to all the reprobates, at whose resurrection, by reason of their hideousness, all the creatures of God shall be afraid, and shall cry: "Let not your mercy forsake us, O Lord our God." After this shall God cause Satan ;to be raised up, at whose aspect every creature shall be as dead, for fear of the horrid form of his appearance. May it please God," said Jesus, "that I behold not that monster on that day. The Messenger of God alone shall not be affrighted by such shapes, because he shall fear God only.

"Then the angel, at the sound of whose trumpet all shall be raised, shall sound his trumpet again, saying: "Come to the judgment, O creatures, for your Creator wills to judge you." Then shall appear in the midst of heaven over the valley of Jehoshaphat; a glittering throne over which shall come a white cloud, whereupon the angels shall cry out: "Blessed be you our God, who has created us and saved us from the fall of Satan." Then the Messenger ;of God shall fear, for that he shall perceive that none has loved God as he should. For he who would get in change a piece of gold must have sixty mites; wherefore, if he have but one mite he cannot change it. But if the Messenger of God shall fear, what shall the ungodly do who are full of wickedness?"

imhotep:

This is YOUR personal opinion.

The words of Christ as quoted directly from the book of John?   Grasping at straws now are we?
Where, dear brother, are the quotes on penance and purgatory? You have studiously avoided making any reference to them.

imhotep:

Neither have I seen anything tangible on the TRINITY.

Its impossible to see what you are steadfastly determined not to see. If muslims can see them then anyone else (except the blind) can see them.

imhotep:

But we were not talking about Isaiah and Jesus!!

Just the same way the argument was about penance and you decietfully shifted it to trinity.
You say Paul may have never read the book of James (speculative as both were contemporaries), i simply provided some evidence that your argument holds no water as Isaiah also never saw the book of Matthew and yet prophesied about the birth of Christ and His crucifiction to the letter.

imhotep:

More for you to think about

James 2: 14 => What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

Churning out verses WITHOUT studying them like an automaton is of no use. I have explained this countless times, a man cannot claim to be saved and yet not produce fruits of the Spirit (works). Its just like saying you planted a maize seed and can't get a single cob of maize from it. A lion cannot produce a tiger as cub . . . so likewise a christian, saved by faith, cannot but produce works UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS.

I asked a question earlier (as is common with those who argue from a position of blindness steadfastly pretend not to see), Nahor and Haran also did similar sacrifices to their idols, King Manaseh sacrificed his own children to Molech, why was this not recorded as "works" for them?

Is there works WITHOUT faith or are those works justified FIRST by faith?

One thing to notice, not a single one of the verses you have quoted thus far reference works OUTSIDE faith. That is a significant point you cant just wave away because you dont want to see it.

@imtohep
From my stand point of view, you're getting to know the truth, the truth that it is not Paul to be followed but Christ himself.

davidylan:

The words of Christ as quoted directly from the book of John? Grasping at straws now are we?
Where, dear brother, are the quotes on penance and purgatory? You have studiously avoided making any reference to them.

Did not see TRINITY mentioned therein.

davidylan:

Its impossible to see what you are steadfastly determined not to see. If muslims can see them then anyone else (except the blind) can see them.

Muslims are asking a good question => Where is TRINITY in the bible? Please answer them.

davidylan:

Just the same way the argument was about penance and you decietfully shifted it to trinity.

Since trinity and penance and purgatory are not in the bible, why do you accept trinity and reject penance and purgatory? You are being inconsistent.

davidylan:

You say Paul may have never read the book of James (speculative as both were contemporaries),

Yes, very very likely.

davidylan:

i simply provided some evidence that your argument holds no water as Isaiah also never saw the book of Matthew and yet prophesied about the birth of Christ and His crucifiction to the letter.

And we were NOT talking about Isaiah and Jesus.

davidylan:

Churning out verses WITHOUT studying them like an automaton is of no use. I have explained this countless times, a man cannot claim to be saved and yet not produce fruits of the Spirit (works). Its just like saying you planted a maize seed and can't get a single cob of maize from it. A lion cannot produce a tiger as cub . . . so likewise a christian, saved by faith, cannot but produce works UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS.

I asked a question earlier (as is common with those who argue from a position of blindness steadfastly pretend not to see), Nahor and Haran also did similar sacrifices to their idols, King Manaseh sacrificed his own children to Molech, why was this not recorded as "works" for them?

Is their works WITHOUT faith or are those works justified FIRST by faith?

Artful dodging again. And I repost.

James 2: 14 => What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

imhotep:

Did not see TRINITY mentioned therein.
Muslims are asking a good question => Where is TRINITY in the bible? Please answer them.
Since trinity and penance and purgatory are not in the bible, why do you accept trinity and reject penance and purgatory? You are being inconsistent.

- Trinity as a word does not exist in the bible since english was not in existence then.
- I accept the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost; One God in 3 manifestations - as CLEARLY defined in the book of John.
- I am asking a good question thou hypocrite, => Where is PENANCE AND PURGATORY in the bible? Please answer me too.

imhotep:

And we were NOT talking about Isaiah and Jesus.

no we were not. A little context to expose the illogicality of some of your "questions" is however in order.

imhotep:

Artful dodging again. And I repost.

James 2: 14 => What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

no artful dodging dear. In answer - Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Your works (fruits of the Spirit) are your fruits meet for repentance without which your claims to faith is dead.

Matthew 7: 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Verse 18 is especially very important to note . . . a corrupt (unsaved sinner) cannot bring forth good fruit (fruits of the Spirit/works).
Go back to verse 17, EVERY good tree must bring forth good fruit!

In essence; verse 18 says - without faith . . . there is NO works to speak of.
Verse 17 says - If you have faith then show us by your works!

ITS THAT SIMPLE IMHOTEP! Unless of course u're blind!

davidylan:

- Trinity as a word does not exist in the bible since english was not in existence then.
- I accept the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost; One God in 3 manifestations - as CLEARLY defined in the book of John.
- I am asking a good question thou hypocrite, => Where is PENANCE AND PURGATORY in the bible? Please answer me too.

- I am asking a good question thou hypocrite, => Where is TRINITY in the bible? Please answer me too.

davidylan:

Your works (fruits of the Spirit) are your fruits meet for repentance without which your claims to faith is dead.

This is your own dogmatic statement. Why should anyone take your words for it?

James 2: 15 - 17 =>

15 If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17 So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Trinity as a word does not exist in the bible since english was not in existence then.

Noted.

imhotep:

- I am asking a good question thou hypocrite, => Where is TRINITY in the bible? Please answer me too.

Been answered many times over. Next question please.

imhotep:

This is your own dogmatic statement. Why should anyone take your words for it?

I make no statements without scripture to back it up, go back and read Matthew 3:8-10.

imhotep:

James 2: 15 - 17 =>

15 If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17 So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Not new - Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

davidylan:

Trinity as a word does not exist in the bible since english was not in existence then.

It actually existed in Latin as Trinitas. Study well before jumping to conclusions.

imhotep:

It actually existed in Latin as Trinitas. Study well before jumping to conclusions.

and your prophets and apostles wrote down the books of the bible in latin?
If that's the case we may as well accept the "gospel of barnabas" as valid gospel no? Sometimes its fruitless arguing with this unsaved "christians".

davidylan:

Been answered many times over. Next question please.

More like artfully dodged.

davidylan:

I make no statements without scripture to back it up, go back and read Matthew 3:8-10.

Not new - Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Good. This ties in well with James 2:18 -19 =>

18 Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.


====
keep studying, you will soon arrive at the entire truth.

davidylan:

and your prophets and apostles wrote down the books of the bible in latin?

The Roman empire (that crucified Jesus) spoke and wrote latin.

davidylan:

If that's the case we may as well accept the "gospel of barnabas" as valid gospel no?

It is you who say it.

davidylan:

Sometimes its fruitless arguing with this unsaved "christians".

Sometimes its fruitless arguing with this unlearned and half-baked "christians" whose bibles were approved by the Catholic Church.

imhotep:

More like artfully dodged.

i did much better than pretending the question wasnt even asked as u have consistently done with my own questions. Typical islamic mode of argument.

imhotep:

Good. This ties in well with James 2:18 -19 =>

18 Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.

again whats new? Faith remains the common denominator, without it there is no works no matter how hard you bang ur head on the wall. Matthew 7: 17 . . . but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
  18 . . . neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

davidylan:

i did much better than pretending the question wasnt even asked as u have consistently done with my own questions. Typical islamic mode of argument.

Bottomline => you did not answer the question.

davidylan:

again whats new? Faith remains the common denominator, without it there is no works no matter how hard you bang your head on the wall. Matthew 7: 17 . . . but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 . . . neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

James 2:18 => Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.

imhotep:

The Roman empire (that crucified Jesus) spoke and wrote latin.

Neither Moses nor Isaiah nor Paul nor James nor Matthew nor Luke nor Zechariah wrote their scripts in latin.

imhotep:

Sometimes its fruitless arguing with this unlearned and half-baked "christians" whose bibles were approved by the Catholic Church.

True. Folks like imhotep need to read the bible more than relying on religious dogma. You and Frizy have more in common than you choose to admit.

imhotep:

Bottomline => you did not answer the question.

that's the conclusion you have to reach especially if you're blind and dont want to see answers provided 10x over. Read the book of John.

imhotep:

James 2:18 => Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.

What's new? Repeating same old dogma over and over again . . . the foundation for "good works" is FAITH.

davidylan:

Neither Moses nor Isaiah nor Paul nor James nor Matthew nor Luke nor Zechariah wrote their scripts in latin.

But the english word 'trinity' existed in latin as trinitas.

davidylan:

True. Folks like imhotep need to read the bible more than relying on religious dogma.

Religious dogma approved your bible in the 'Synod of Hippo' in the year 393 AD.

davidylan:

You and Frizy have more in common than you choose to admit.

You and the excommunicated Martin Luther who wrote the anti-semitic "On the Jews and their lies" have a lot in common.

See => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_jews_and_their_lies

davidylan:

that's the conclusion you have to reach especially if you're blind and don't want to see answers provided 10x over. Read the book of John.

Trinity is not in the book of John. Catholic bishop Athanasius developed it.

davidylan:

What's new? Repeating same old dogma over and over again . . . the foundation for "good works" is FAITH.

Are you now confusing scriptural quotes with dogmatic statments?

imhotep:

But the english word 'trinity' existed in latin as trinitas.

How many of the prophets and apostles spoke latin?

imhotep:

Religious dogma approved your bible in the 'Synod of Hippo' in the year 393 AD.

The jewish religious order "approved" and "maintained" the Mosaic laws, Christ refered to them as whitened sepulchres full of dead mens bones.

imhotep:

You and the excommunicated Martin Luther who wrote the anti-semitic "On the Jews and their lies" have a lot in common.

See => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_jews_and_their_lies

Not really, i simply read the bible and take what it says as Christ makes me understand it.

imhotep:

Trinity is not in the book of John. Catholic bishop Athanasius developed it.

we're fully back in islamic mode now. What else did the catholic bishops corrupt in the bible? Perhaps Olabowale and co were right afterall.

imhotep:

Are you now confusing scriptural quotes with dogmatic statments?

silly. I make a statement fully backed up by verses in the bible - you either claim that did not answer the question, conclude that it is simply my oppinion or that i'm just sticking to dogma . . . and you hypocrite ask the above question?

Now we're back in imhotep territory, arguing blindly while we keep the bible completely at arms length. Enjoy squabbling with Frizy, you both are brothers in unbelief even though you dont know it.

davidylan:

How many of the prophets and apostles spoke latin?

The romans conquered and ruled isreal. And they spoke latin.
John 19: 19 -20

19 Pilate also had an inscription written and put on the cross. It read, "Jesus the Nazorean, the King of the Jews."
20 Now many of the Jews read this inscription, because the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek.

davidylan:

The jewish religious order "approved" and "maintained" the Mosaic laws, Christ refered to them as whitened sepulchres full of dead mens bones.

Good. Christ was not talking about the Catholic church.

davidylan:

Not really, i simply read the bible and take what it says as Christ makes me understand it.

But I quoted James for you and you are accusing me of posting dogma.

davidylan:

we're fully back in islamic mode now. What else did the catholic bishops corrupt in the bible? Perhaps Olabowale and co were right afterall.

I am waiting for you to reject the corrupt doctrine of the trinity.

davidylan:

silly. I make a statement fully backed up by verses in the bible - you either claim that did not answer the question, conclude that it is simply my oppinion or that i'm just sticking to dogma . . . and you hypocrite ask the above question?

Yes, you were resorting to personal dogma

davidylan:

Now we're back in imhotep territory, arguing blindly while we keep the bible completely at arms length.

Now we're back in davidylan territory, arguing blindly while we misquote, misunderstand and mis-apply the bible.

davidylan:

Enjoy squabbling with Frizy, you both are brothers in unbelief even though you don't know it.

You are afraid because you CANNOT answer the M'uslim's question about the Trinity.

Religious dogma approved your bible in the 'Synod of Hippo' in the year 393 AD

That is why people need to investigate and stop the idea of calling a book false except with a valid reason. I said it sometimes one the thread that there was a battle in history between the Pauline Christians and the true Monotheism sect of Christianity which made the Gospel of Barnabas publicly extinct. But the wicked wont allow the truth to surface easily.

CHAPTER 55 MO'HAMMED AT THE JUDGEMENT

The Messenger of God shall go to collect all the prophets, to whom he shall speak praying them to go with him to pray God for the faithful. And every one shall excuse himself for fear; nor, as God lives, would I go there, knowing what I know. Then God, seeing this, shall remind his Messenger how he created all things for love of him, and so his fear shall leave him, and he shall go near to the throne with love and reverence, while the angels sing: "Blessed be your holy name O God, our God."

And when he has drawn near to the throne, God shall open [his mind] to his Messenger, even as a friend to a friend when for a long while they have not met. The first to speak shall be the Messenger of God, who shall say: "I adore and love you, O my God, and with all my heart and soul I give you thanks for that you did vouchsafe to create me to be your servant, and made all for love of me, so that I might love you for all things and in all things and above all things; therefore let all your creatures praise you, O my God." Then God shall say: "We give you thanks, O Lord, and bless your holy name." Truly I say to you, the demons and reprobates with Satan shall then weep so that more water shall flow from the eyes of one of them than is in the river of Jordan. Yet shall they not see God "And God shall speak to his Messenger, saying: "You are welcome, O my faithful servant; therefore ask what you will, for you shall obtain all." The Messenger of God shall answer. "O Lord, I remember that when you did create me, you said that you had willed to make for love of me the world and paradise, and angels and men, that they might glorify you by me your servant. Therefore, Lord God, merciful and just. I pray you that you recollect your promise made to your servant."

And God shall make answer even as a friend who jests with a friend, and shall say: 'Have you witnesses of this, my friend Muhammad?' And with reverence he shall say: "Yes, Lord." Then God shall answer: "Go, call them, O Gabriel;." The angel Gabriel shall come to the Messenger of God, and shall say: "Lord who are your 'witnesses?" The Messenger of God shall answer: "They are Adam;, Abraham, Ishmael;, Moses;, David;, and Jesus son of Mary.?" "Then shall the angel departs and he shall call the aforesaid witnesses, who with fear shall go thither. And when they are present God shall say to them: Remember you that which my Messenger affirms?" They shall reply: "What thing, O Lord?" God shall say: "That I have made all things for love of him, so that all things might praise me by him."

Then every one of them shall answer: "There are with us three witnesses better than we are, O Lord." And God shall reply: "Who are these three witnesses?" Then Moses shall say: "The book that you gave to me is the first"; and David shall say: "The book that you gave to me is the second"; and he who speaks to you shall say: "Lord the whole world, deceived by Satan, that I was your son and your fellow, but the book that you gave me said truly that I am your servant; and that book confesses that which your Messenger affirms." Then shall the Messenger of God speak, and shall say: "Thus says the book that you gave me O Lord." And when the Messenger

of God has said this, God shall speak, saying: ,All that I have now done, I have done in order that every one should know how much I love you." And when he has thus spoken, God shall give to his Messenger a book, in which are written all the names of the elect of God. Wherefore every creature shall do reverence to God, saying: "To you alone O God, be glory and honour, because you have given us to your Messenger

Imhotep, show me where purgatory and penance is in the bible please?

4JA:

Imhotep, show me where purgatory and penance is in the bible please?

After you show me where TRINITY is in the bible --- please.

4JA:

Imhotep, show me where purgatory and penance is in the bible please?

dont waste your time 4JA. He'll keep hiding under the skirts of "trinity". Its his trump card to avoid answering anything. You can open the bible forever he'll continue asking the same question.

davidylan:

don't waste your time 4JA. He'll keep hiding under the skirts of "trinity". Its his trump card to avoid answering anything. You can open the bible forever he'll continue asking the same question.

Wonderful. Now, for the umpteenth time, REJECT the trinity, purgatory and penance. THEY ARE NOT IN THE BIBLE. I am waiting.

Imhotep, I haven't made any claims for the trinity so I don't have to prove anything.  You seem to defend purgatory and penance.  I just want you to show me where they are explicitely taught in the Bible so that I can read it for myself.

imhotep:

Wonderful. Now, for the umpteenth time, REJECT the trinity, purgatory and penance. THEY ARE NOT IN THE BIBLE. I am waiting.

Imhotep stop shouting.   You just keep looking more and more spiritually empty with each lung bursting effort. I showed you trinity in the bible . . . you dont want to see because the minute you do u'd be forced to admit penance and purgatory isnt there.

Even Olabowale would do a bit better than u're doing at the moment.   Keep dribbling around.