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Anti-Deity of Yahshua: Please Kindly Help Frosbel Answer This / Did Jesus Preexist His Birth - Honeychild, Bookmark And Ijawkid Let's Discuss / Brother Frosbel, Please Stop This Fight Against Trinity (2) (3) (4)
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Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 7:36pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
truthislight:so no connection bro between what you posted and what yu highlighted. Was Jesus called God in your bible. YES was he called mighty God. Yes was he called everlasting father. Yes |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 8:47pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
this is really serious ijawkid:what are you doing to yourself. Is Jesus called God in your bible. is this Jesus involved in creation (an exclusive God ability). so the bible does not make sense again because it calls Jesus God kwo. the bible calls Jesus God in so many places why cant you call him what the bible calls him. ijawkid:you lost me on this one, can yu show where God the father gave jesus the ability to create. can you pls ijawkid:no connection with what we are discussing, we are talking about the ability to create and not the possession of life. so stop dodging ijawkid:now where did i do that. see am not the the one equating Jesus with the father, its the bible that does that. the unfortunate thing is that when i show yu where it is in the bible, you will say my rendition doesnt make sense, just to deny what you have been shown. you are saying all the translations that translated it that way doont make sense even the greek it was translated from does not make sense. so how will you see the truth. the bible says Jesus is the everlasting father, yet the father is also the everlasting father. the bible says Jesus is mighty God, yet the father is mighty God the bible says Jesus is the beginning and end it also says Jesus is the beginning and the end phil 2:6 Jesus is in the form of God...is equal with God ijawkid:the one i have been trying to show you. that Jesus is called mighty God, a non God personality can never be called that name. everlassting father yet the father is everlasting ijawkid:shey you dey see yourself, pls tell me that 'mighty God' is what even mortal has answered. keep dodging the truth. ijawkid:my problem is that why would Jesus be called mighty God even when given rulership and you cannot call him mighty God, why, why, why. why would someone be called mighty God if he is not a mighty God. ijawkid:my dear yoou are not doing yourself good at all, you are confusing yourself, bigtime ijawkid:the son is what, an angel or a God niv, kjv, youngs litteral, nasb, esv, aramaic, nlt all said 'his blood". so what are you now saying. what category do you put the son. angel or God SMH when the names apply to him according to you, will you call him the mighty God. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 9:20pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
truthislight:na wa when you say Jesus is the son of God. which God are you referring to. so why are you now bringing satan is called god into the issue. if the God you are referring to is the creator God, then pls answer my question; the son of the creator God is a what. permit me to rephrase myy questions as i see that you are an artful dodger. pls take note, when i say God I mean the creator God. i will now proceed to use the word god without a capital letter 1. the son of the creator/almighty god is a what. can a cow have a goat for a son 2. what kind of spirit being is Jesus a. an angel (non creator god) spirit being b. creator god spirit being what you failed to understand is this my friend. God the father is also called mighty God, why will Jesus be called the exact name of God the father. john 5:18 therefore the jews sought the moore to kill him, because he not only had broke the sabbath, but also said that God was his father, making himself equal with God |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 9:46pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
ijawkid:i dont even understand you again. Is it that you agree that Jesus has a divine status but refuse to accord him that. Would you be kind to show where the father gave the son the a divine status/deity. But even if your story is correct that Jesus was given deity/divinity status. Then why cant you call him deity, why cant you call him God. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by benalvino(m): 9:49pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
so ijawkid and co your problem is that God cant bleed and jesus bled so he is not God? |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 9:52pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
truthislight:good, you are coming up. JESUS and YAHWEH were there. No angels. Thats good. So can i get you to confirm to me that you agree that there is a 'more than one person' about God when he says 'let us' Then from there we can move on. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by benalvino(m): 10:10pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
ijawkid: God does not have blood.....Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, acts is wrong rendering cause it debunk you... act called Jesus God... say titus is wrong too... in your bible them add with his son's blood Philippians 2:5-11 New International Version (NIV) 5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature[b] of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross! you see why he bled? or is this passage rendered wrong again? it says he made himself if you like bring that your wayo say na father make am nothing... even if no wahala he is GOD |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 10:11pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
truthislight:uhm your case is a serious one o. First of all. Am sure that you understand that Jesus is the word. The bible says in the begining was the word. The word was with God. The word was not with God as a man. The word became flesh. The fleshy Jesus and the word that was with God are the same essence. The word became flesh, became man and as a man must need have a blood. Does not remove the fact that he is still the word (a non man). Does it still not make sense to you. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 10:17pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
truthislight: truthislight: and blood. truthislight:if i showed you from the scriptures would you agree to it |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by Boomark(m): 10:40pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
shdemidemi: Christ is the perfect image of God because of the fullness of Godhead which God gave to him. You don't know this because you don't know the meaning of Godhead. They tell you Godhead consist of 3 persons and you just believed it to be so. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 10:47pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
deSika: this is really seriouswhat are you doing to yourself. Is Jesus called God in your bible. is this Jesus involved in creation (an exclusive God ability). so the bible does not make sense again because it calls Jesus God kwo. the bible calls Jesus God in so many places why cant you call him what the bible calls him.So just Jesus being called God is all you want to hear abi??.. Then wahala no dey na...as long as you guys don't call him the Father who is the one God or equate Jesus with him then I no get problem....... Even satan na God too....God no be anybody name... deSika: Can you show me just one place in the scriptures where God gave man the ability to build aeroplanes??...... What ever the son can do it is the Father who has given him the power and has taught him..... Read your scriptures... deSika: This isn't dodging....why do you think the Father can create in the first place??.....is it not because he has life in himself??.....he granted that to his son.... deSika: The scriptures never equates with Jesus with the Father you guys are the ones doing that... Ok let's do this... Jesus is called king of kings,nebuchadnezzar was also called king of kings.... Are they both equal??.... Translation is not even the issue here...understanding is the problem.... What you should have asked yourself is how would Jesus act as eternal Father.... Instead of asking you hurry to conclude he is the same with the Father,even when you know the Father in heaven is the Father of Jesus...make ona dey get sense small... deSika: And Jesus on earth emphatically has told you that he is lesser than his Father....what else do you want from him..... Lol.....now try to figure out why Jesu would be called El Gibbor... Rulership and power would be given to him,that is why he would be called that...... Abi you knw read when the Father give am kingdoms and power??.....would Jesus be called these names if his Father didn't exalt him??...eh mr desika... And like I said the hebrew word el gibbor which is translated to mighty God has been applied to mighty earthly rulers in the bible...you want some few examples?? deSika: I just answered your question on why Jesus would be called eternal Father and here you are closing your eyes..... Read the scriptures and see how the prophecy in isaiah 9:6 applied to Jesus and not run around yapping about the trinity.. deSika: Is he the Father who is our one GOD??...... Son can bleed but the one God the Father can never and has never died nor bled before.... See this rendition.. Acts 20:28 Good News Translation (GNT) 28 So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God, [a] which he made his own through the blood of his Son.[b] the church of God which he bought with the blood of his own Son. (JB). the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son. (RSV) Doesn't it sound nice ??....... deSika: Gods firstborn son... deSika: No need to call him the mighty GOD....he is acting in that position to rid this world off badness..and he would hand over these kingdoms back to the Father who gave him and made him mighty...when that happens your eye go clear....he has a name..and his name is Jesus Christ...is that not enough??..... |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 10:50pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
benalvino: Like a colleague once asked you.... Is Jesus the Father??....... And as per the acts 20:28 quoted please go see how fellow trinitarian scholars dey discard the KJV's rendering...... ..... Well Jesus did bleed that we know...but not the Father which I recognize as the one and only true God.... |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 10:56pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
deSika: i dont even understand you again. Is it that you agree that Jesus has a divine status but refuse to accord him that. I know Jesus has a divine status which ofcourse the Father made him have.......... No need to call Jesus deity because we have to acknowledge the one GOD the Father..... John 17:3 King James Version (KJV) 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. All angels are divine,I can't just run around calling them GOD......they all have names....Jesus has his name.... Call him by his name...the moment you call GOD it should be directed to the Father the one GOD over Jesus and evrybody.... |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by benalvino(m): 11:00pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
ijawkid: Jesus is God... He became flesh n bled so what's prob?... From the start or the zillionth time I said Jesus is distinct from the father. That same Jesus called him self God almighty Not a single thing wrong with acts... This is one of the things you dont like because it proved the point. The word was God it became flesh back in revelation he is Called God Isaiah says he will see God at the resurrection with his eyes. So acts is not mistranslated... |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by benalvino(m): 11:01pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
ijawkid: When the father give am? When he was in heaven or when he was a man on earth... Give us scriptures we no they for assumptions |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 11:03pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
benalvino: and iI think we don tell you tire say Jesus no call himself almighty God.... he is not the Father nor an equal with his Father.... to us there is but one GOD the Father.... thank you.... |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 11:04pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
benalvino: but first you gree say the Father give am? |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 11:05pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
Boomark:Pls can you show where God gave Jesus the godhead. Whats your definition of Godhead |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by benalvino(m): 11:08pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
ijawkid: You they argue with the bible if so.. tell me when them pierce the father... Not just one verse. He called him self God almighty |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by benalvino(m): 11:10pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
ijawkid: Where the father give am... Its like U they close ur eyes to scriptures we post. Show me where the father give am? |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by Boomark(m): 11:16pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
deSika: hey bro relax, lets do some maths. Shall we I asked you , who is this God and you are telling me "the God that made that statement is recorded in the bible as God(ELOHIM)" is this an answer to you or you dont know the answer? you just said "the God is God." the God that said "let us" is He a person or 3 persons talking to themselves? 'Let us reason together' is also for there to be oneness between God and man, you cannot wish that away. until you are able to answer the question of who made the statement above, i cannot join you to make a wrong conclusion. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by Boomark(m): 11:23pm On Jun 14, 2013 |
benalvino: Godhead is same as deity or divinity. Jesus was fully divine by nature. At least now you know it not made up of 3 persons. i thought you would have said something when i showed it to you on the other thread. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 12:35am On Jun 15, 2013 |
ijawkid:so can you now call Jesus God. I want to know so i know that you are catching it little by little at the bolded. 1. JESUS is distinct from the father. The 3 persons are distinct. That explains the 'in our image' yet they are one, that explains the 'in his image' 2. JESUS IS equal with the father in essence. Would you want to argue with Phil 2:6. That says Jesus is in the form of God...equal with God. [Our image = his image in genesis] is that how you answer a question. If you cant answer how the father gave Jesus the ability to create then am afraid to tell you that you are just wishing. We are not in a wishing palace. so having life equates to ability to create uhn. Clap for yourself. Now check this out. John 3:16 ...that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [ are you trying to say that whosoever believeth will have the ability to create] john 10:10 i am come that they might have life and life abundantly. [so Jesus came to give us the ability to create according to Ijawkids gospel] phil 2 :6 Jesus being in the form of God...equal with God john 5:18 ...Jesus said God was his father making himself equal with God Jesus is distinct from God the father. yes pls, by the time you are done, pls do let me know if you have decided to start calling Jesus mighty God since that verse called him that if Jesus is everlasting father to the children you talked about. What would God the father be to those children Jesus is distinct from the father. Jesus is distinct from the holyspirit. Yet Jesus is called what The father is called and does what the father does. They have distinct roles ok we then have to go to the greek translation. intelligent dodger. Is sonhood his nature. GODS firstborn son is he a GOD as per his fathers nature or is he an angel spirit being as per been like angel Gabriel who does not have a work with creation |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 12:52am On Jun 15, 2013 |
ijawkid:will you be kind to show where the father gave Jesus divine status. You agree that Jesus is deity but you cant just call him deity. But you were comfortable to tell me that satan is god. But you cant say same for Jesus. Ok its seems to me that you are wiser than the bible. Because as it is the bible says and his name shall be called mighty God but Ijawkid says No need to call him the mighty GOD . Wiseman Ijawkid |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 1:20am On Jun 15, 2013 |
ijawkid:deut 6:4 hear o isreal: the the lord our God is one lord 1 cor 8: 6 but to us there is but one God , the father ...and one lord Jesus Christ in deut the lord is called God and he is one. in corinthans Jesus is the lord. Remember this lord was called God in deut now he is identified as Jesus. Remember also the lord is one lord in deut. Now father is God. Jesus is lord and lord is God therefore he is God [you may also consider removing the capital letters from the God as you are wont to do] |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 1:21am On Jun 15, 2013 |
ijawkid:simple show where the father give am. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 1:30am On Jun 15, 2013 |
Boomark:is that not what is recorded in the bible. Or you want me to formulate my own ideas ni. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 2:10am On Jun 15, 2013 |
Now lets go into the scriptures. shall we THE 'MORE THAN ONE PERSON' NATURE OF GOD Gen 1:26 And God said let [/b] us [/b] make man in our image according to our likeness.[why does this verse not read: and God said let him make man in his image according to his likeness, your guess is as good as mine. More than one persons involved yet in verse 27 it says and God created man in his image. My question is why the seemingly inconsistencies, is God trying to tell us something about his nature ] gen 3:22 ...then the lord God said "behold the man has become like one of us gen 11:7 come let us go down but does not say in verse 8 "so the lords scattered." instead it says "so the lord". How can one lord be 'us'. Or did it happen that the other persons that were beckoned on refused to act with the speaker. Its only teaching us that there is a more than one person nature about God yet these persons act as one. The word used for God is Elohim a plural now yet is used as if he is one. So who are the persons that make up the Elohim |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 2:51am On Jun 15, 2013 |
THE 'MORE THAN ONE PERSON NATURE' OF GOD -- howmany are they it baffles me when i see self professed christians attacking the concept of trinity calling it pagan originated, satan inspired ideas. I say within myself, these people dont know that they are attacking the very bible which they carry. In the cause of interacting with ijawkid and friends, i have discovered that they have a problem with the no 3, why must it be 3, they ask, why not 10 or 5 billion. So lets go to the scriptures to see what it says. Tighten your seatbelts, its gonna be a long ride. First bustop isaiah 48:16 come ye near unto me, hear ye this; i have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am i: and now THE LORD GOD, and his SPIRIT Hath sent ME The person speaking identifies himself as the first and the last in verse 12, the foundation layer of the heavens and earth in v13. Then in verse 16 he says the Lord God and his spirit has sent him. So we see the speaker, the lord God and the spirit. Thats how many 3. Isaiah 42:1 behold my servant, whom i uphold, mine elect, in whom my soul delighted, i have put my spirit upon him,he shall bring forth Judgement to the gentiles. 3 persons In Isaiah 61:1 the person sent with the goodnews (gospel) says the lord had anointed him. We also the see the spirit of God upon him. Thats 3 persons |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 3:52am On Jun 15, 2013 |
So could Jesus be God almigthy. Hmm, big question but lets go to the scriptures. In isaiah 48 :16 i had already shown a creator being, who says he is the first and the last telling us that the Lord God and his spirit hath sent him. This creator being who says he is sent by the lord God also tell us that "i am the lord and there is none else, there is no God beside me" in chapter 45:5. There is no God beside him. is he joking or what and yet he is sent by the lord God. He says he is a just God and a savior, chap45:2. So who is this God that there is on God beside him, that created the universe yet he is sent by another Lord God and his spirit. Could this be Jesus. Hmmm. Malachi 3:1 behold i will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me ; and the lord whom ye seek,shall suddenly come to his temple....saith the lord of host. Here the lord of host is saying he will send his messenger( this is obviously John the baptist) to prepare the way before him (the lord of host). Here it seems John the baptist is to prepare the way before the lord of host. But John came to prepare way for Jesus. Does it mean that Jesus is the lord of host. Am sure you are getting the picture. Why would Jesus call him self the Lord of host. Zechariah 2:10,11 sing and rejoice, o daughter of Zion: for lo, i come and i will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the lord ......and i will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shall know that the lord of host hath sent me unto thee. rewind to verse 8,9 for thus saith the lord of hosts; .... And ye shall know that the lord of host hath sent me. Hosea 1:7 but i will have mercy upon the house of judah, and i will save them by the lord thier God ..... Are you guys still with me. The Lord is saying that will save them by the lord thier God. He will save then by Jesus the lord thier God lets link this us with matthew 1:21 and she shall bring forth a son,and thou shalt call his name Jesus; for he shall save his people from thier sins and acts 4:12 ....for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Its so clear, if you are arguing against Jesus being God you are evidently arguing against the bible. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 3:56am On Jun 15, 2013 |
Christians are those who submit to what God has said about himself,however lofty his self revelation may be. |
Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 4:07am On Jun 15, 2013 |
If Jesus says there is no other God beside him, the bible says he is the mighty God, thomas says he is his lord, Jesus says he created the earth. How then can you not Call and reverence Jesus as God. he says he is the first and last and the bible says he is everlasting father, how dare you say he has a beginning, Jesus is lord |
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