deSika: 1. Who do you say Jesus is?a man or a spiritual being

2. When you say Jesus is the son of God. What do you mean

3. Did Jesus exist in heaven before coming to earth.

4. If answer to no 3 is yes, then was Jesus a man while in heaven.

deSika: i see you have a problem with the no 3. Subsequently i will show you why its 3.

At the bolded. Do you realise that God was speaking to personalities that had the ability to create. Now are you trying to say that God is not the only spirit being that has the ability to create. That he was speaking to other spirit beings who had the ability to create. That would mean that God is not the only spirit being that can create.

The last time i checked. We have only one creator spirit being who created every other thing (spirit beings and the rest.)

so tell me how many spirit beings that have the ability to create do you have apart from God

*Kails*:


He was a man. Human. Mortal.

creation of God. Not more special than you or I. we are all children of our creator/s.

we all did.

If there is a heaven, I believe we all were spirits there. Not in any particular shape or physical form. We will return that way after death..IF heaven exists.

deSika: . The question is did Jesus at any time have a spirit nature. Yes. Did Jesus at anytime have a human nature. YES. How many natures are there. 2

Its sufficient for me that you agree that Jesus is a spirit and that that same Jesus was a man. If Jesus is a spirit and later became a man, how many nature is that. Added to the fact that he did not discard his spirital attributes while being a man but was able to do and say things that are impossible for men. Its too obvious my friend stop denying it.

the bolded part asks why i dont agree with Jesus when he says only his father knows.

Thats dual nature. Dual nature does not mean that he would be invisible while walking as a man. Him becoming a man entails that he would follow the laws governing manhood. Him having dual nature entails that he can do what is impossible for man to do. His not knowing if there is any thing like that in the bible is a part of his human nature.

ijawkid:

May I inform you that I believe Jesus took part in creation....but was Gods agent......

So in verse 27 it won't be contradictory if it is said God created man in his own image.....

Because he is the ultimate source....

Even Jesus is the image of that one invisible GOD the Father.......

All of us are image of that one invisible God the Father.....

deSika: so tell me how many spirit beings that have the ability to create do you have apart from God

ijawkid:

You are insinuating Jesus' memory was halfed??.......right??.....

he knew angels didn't know the day and hour including himself but only the Father knew.......

You might just be infering that Jesus didn't know himself.......

Now the question is:::: is Jesus really the Jesus who pre-existed??.......should I believe Jesus' words since his human nature must have affected his decisions and sayings??.....

I stick to the Fact that Jesus had his memory from heaven intact and that infcat he did not knw the day and hour but only the one invisible God the Father......

deSika: because its what the bible shows us.

But seriously, did you think about those verses. If God could use the word "us" for himself. Does that not send a message to you that this one God may afterall have an "us" personality.

But come to think of it. Why would you restrict a God who uses "us" and "i" to refer to himself to just one personality. Are you wiser than God.

Ijawkid: When God says Us he was definitely talking to someone who wasn't a part of himself but someone who is a distinct person(s) from Him......

deSika: so tell me how many spirit beings that have the ability to create do you have apart from God

deSika:
Genesis 1:26 says And God said let us make man in our image
genesis 1:27 so God created man in his own image.

going by what you said about God talking to a different personalities. Did the other personalities refuse to take part in the creation process in verse 27

deSika: this was what you said
then i said

youve not being able to answer that

then i asked again

nothing still from your end

so permit me to do the following explanations
When God said 'us' he was trying to show you Ijawkid that he has more than one personality. when the bible now said "so God created man in his own image. he was trying to bring you back to the fact of his oneness.

now for you to say God was speaking to another personality different from God is wrong. because it would mean that God is not the only spirit being with the ability to create. if we were to go by your statement, the next verse which says 'so God created man in his own image' would mean that the other persons different from God whom God was speaking to would have refused to join God and leave him to do the work alone.

so what is the correct interpretation.
first you have to understand that 'us' (more than one) in verse 26 = 'his' (one) in verse 27 because both 'us' and 'in' are involved in the creation business. and yu know that God is the only creator

since the other personalities that God was telling "let us" all have the innate ability to create. it therefore means that they are God in thier own right, they are not different from the person speaking but yet they are disctinct personalities.

i know it may sound confusing, but its all clearly spelt out in the bible.
you just have to take the word for what it is.

Gen 1:26 and God said let us [/b]make man in [b] our image...
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image...
Gen 1:29 And God said behold i ....

God was not speaking to spirit beings or angels as they do not have ability to create. so that rules out angels. so who was God speaking to. he was speaking to the three personalities embedded in himself.

take note: when God uses the word 'us' and 'our' he is trying to tell you that there is a 'more than one person' about God. if you keep denying this, you might just be denying the very bible you are carrying.

wow!

Boomark:

How about this one "come now, let us reason together"?, Isaiah 1:18. How many personality are involved?
smh

deSika: @Ijawkid
who is talking about a multiple personality disorder.

Ok i get. You agree that Jesus has a physical and spiritual nature. And infact as a spiritual being he is so close to God as to be able to do somethings that God the father can do. You only disagree that Jesus is the same with God the father

Atleast you are not restricting Jesus to being just human who does not have any spiritual nature. Thats good.

but come to think of it. Can you call Jesus God the son. Since you call him the son of God. [just as the son of a lion is a lion so the son of God should also be a God in his own right especially as Jesus is a spiritual being.]

should i also take it that you agree that Jesus was part of the personalities of God that was involved in creation [i say this because its only God that can create].

We wil just need to do a little delving into the scripture to see why Jesus is God, as well as the spirit

deSika: chief, all you need to do is to engage a little reasoning.

In Isaiah the parties involved in the reasoning all have the ability to reasoning. Thats why man can be included there. But in genesis the parties involved must need have the ability to create, that rules out any angel being a part of 'let us'. So who is the 'us'. it must mean that there is a 'more than one personality' about God.

The two scenarios are differednt. Come to think of it. Why would 'Let us' be used. Do you have any alternative idea

ijawkid:

Yes all the parties involved including God could reason...right??.......

But are these thinkers all personalities of GOD??......

God has given us the ability to reason.....and so he invites us to reason with him.......

Apply this to Jesus as regards creation...............

ijawkid:

The bolded is my problem......Jesus is not part of the personality of GOD,Jesus is a person distinct from his Father(GOD).....

Jesus was given power to serve as Gods agent for creation.....remember that Jesus was granted to have life in himself.......



The moment you say God has 3 personalities then you're saying God is confused.......

And when you say God who do you mean??.......

deSika: aha so you are saying God the father has given Jesus the ability to create and so he invites Jesus to come join him create man.

Understand what am saying. The fact that men are involved in the reasoning disqualifies any 'personality of God ' syndrome from this sitation especially as reasonming is not an exclusive act performed by God.

But in the case of creation story. The ability to create is the exclusive act performed only by a God and not any mere spirit being. Only God can create No other spirit being can do that. So for Jesus to have the ability to create means that he is a God. And since we cant have 2 Gods. It then means that Jesus is a part of a Godhead.
And this is a pointer for you. In our image changes to in his image. It just goes to show you that 'our' and 'his' are one.

deSika: bro it should not be a problem. Having three personalities does not mean confusion

you should be able to get a clearer picture when you represent Jesus as the word of the father. The word is not independent from the person that speaks it. Infact the word is a part of the speaker as the word comes from within the speaker.

If you can call Jesus God the son being the son of a God and having the spiritual nature of God. Then am afraid that you Just called Jesus God. As we can not have more than one God.

When i say God i mean the Godhead.

I understand what you are saying. That Jesus is so distinct from his father for him to be his father. But the truth is that Jesus juxtaposes his father so much that they just have be one. Not only in creation but in other things. Even the bible in so many instances say things like 'i and my father are one', if you have seen me you have seen the father, 'the father, the spirit,the word are one and bear witness' . JESUS is called mighty God, Jesus is referred to as God with us. Have you ever asked yourselve which God is with us. Is it a different God, if its a different God, then how many Gods do you then have. Certainly there is only one God. If Jesus is God that is with us that means he is the God who you refer to as God.

My friend, its all about expressing himself in different ways. Someone once aptly said that God the father is God over us, God the son is God with us, God the holyspirit is God in us. Its all about expression. But they maintain thier oneness.


...Shalom aleichem

deSika:
so can i say that everything that God formed and created is God's son. the earth was also created by God

deSika:
ok do you agree then that Jesus has a dual nature. and can be said to be 100% man and 100% spiritual being.
if he is dual natured why then do you argue that Jesus cannot be man and then God at the same time. remember God is a spiritual being. My point is simple. Jesus has the nature of a man and the nature of God. we then have to align scriptures to see that Jesus' spiritual nature is equal to God

deSika: but you saw the words 'us' and 'our' .

it seems you have a problem with '3'.

But atleast you must agree that there is a 'more than one person' nature about God for him to use the word us. Do you agree

if you agree then we can move forward to identifying the personalities in the us from the bible.

deSika: lol, lady, thats the problem. You are trying to put God in my shoe. I hope you Know that God wont fit into my shoe. Its undersize.

truthislight:

The earth a person ?

All the persons that God created are sons of God.

1. Adam
2. Angels
3. Jesus



The angels that came to earth to see Abraham, Jacob, and lot did not pass through the womb or a woman but rather, they materialised and put on mans body and as such remained and keep their nature as angels even though they have put on material body.

Same thing with the angels of Noah's day that did put on material body and married women, they were still angels.

But was that ^ the same with Jesus ? No.

Jesus came as a man to pay the ransom for a man(Adam).

He passed through a woman(mortal) to come to earth.

If he had done as the other angels did, then your case would have held, since the other angels that had came befor were still considered to be "spirit" persons.

That ^ is the way in which the bible considers "spirit persons"(eg angels) that puts on body.

What that comes out from a woman is man. QED.

This is Not greek mythology.
Peace

deSika: bro for Jesus to have been a spirit and then later become a man. Thats dual nature

for Jesus to have had all the unique abilities he had while been a man. For Jesus to have been able to do somethings that are 'unmanlike' just shows dual nature.

deSika: . The question is did Jesus at any time have a spirit nature. Yes. Did Jesus at anytime have a human nature. YES. How many natures are there. 2

Its sufficient for me that you agree that Jesus is a spirit and that that same Jesus was a man. If Jesus is a spirit and later became a man, how many nature is that. Added to the fact that he did not discard his spirital attributes while being a man but was able to do and say things that are impossible for men. Its too obvious my friend stop denying it.

the bolded part asks why i dont agree with Jesus when he says only his father knows.

Thats dual nature. Dual nature does not mean that he would be invisible while walking as a man. Him becoming a man entails that he would follow the laws governing manhood. Him having dual nature entails that he can do what is impossible for man to do. His not knowing if there is any thing like that in the bible is a part of his human nature.

deSika:

Thats dual nature. Dual nature does not mean that he would be invisible while walking as a man. Him becoming a man entails that he would follow the laws governing manhood. Him having dual nature entails that he can do what is impossible for man to do. His not knowing if there is any thing like that in the bible is a part of his human nature.

deSika: chief, all you need to do is to engage a little reasoning.

In Isaiah the parties involved in the reasoning all have the ability to reasoning. Thats why man can be included there. But in genesis the parties involved must need have the ability to create, that rules out any angel being a part of 'let us'. So who is the 'us'. it must mean that there is a 'more than one personality' about God.

The two scenarios are differednt. Come to think of it. Why would 'Let us' be used. Do you have any alternative idea

deSika:
my friend you are playing the dodge game
Jesus had a physical nature, he also had a spiritual nature
how natures is that.

did you read the part where i said if there is anything like that in the bible. by the way dont let that distract you. i need yu to concur with me that
1. Jesus had 2 natures, a spirit and a man.
2. his spirit nature is similar to God and as such deserves to be called God, inshort he is God

ijawkid:

But how can we reason if we were not bestowed with such abilities.....can God reason with animals or plants??.....

What do you understand by the word GODhead??....what does it mean??.....

Please define it......Jesus being given that power to create does not make him equal to God.......its like saying God giving Jesus the authority and power to rule makes Jesus equal with the one who gave him authority......

deSika: would you do me a favour. Would you show me where Jesus was given ability to create.

When God says let us make man. He was definitely talking to persons who already had the ability to create.

My point is simple. Any person that has the ability to create life is a God. Only a God can create

so when God was talking he was not talking to angels, as angels dont have ability to create,

do you agree with me that its only a God that has the exclusive ability to create life

Godhead means the divine essence of God. It means deity.

deSika: would you do me a favour. Would you show me where Jesus was given ability to create.

When God says let us make man. He was definitely talking to persons who already had the ability to create.

My point is simple. Any person that has the ability to create life is a God. Only a God can create

so when God was talking he was not talking to angels, as angels dont have ability to create,

do you agree with me that its only a God that has the exclusive ability to create life

Godhead means the divine essence of God. It means deity.

ijawkid:

I have never in my life called Jesus God the son.....never ever......

Please when Jesus said he and the Father are one what do you think he actually meant??.....

John 17:20-23

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray
also for those who will believe in me through
their message, 21 that all of them may be
one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in
you. May they also be in us so that the world
may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have
given them the glory that you gave me, that
they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them
and you in me—so that they may be brought to
complete unity. Then the world will know that
you sent me and have loved them even as you
have loved me.

The above verse describes what ever Christ meant when he said I and the Father are one..........he wasn't refering to an ontological oneness if not we all would be GOD the almighty too are part of the GODhead........

Because of Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him,so Jesus could rightly say if you've seen me you've seen the Father......Jesus was a representative of the Father........

Now the truth is we are also in both Jesus and the Father.....that should even make higher than the both of them(Jesus and the Father)...........

Jesus being refered to as Immanuel in no way means it is God himself who is with us literally speaking.......its a name he'll bear because he was sent by God and would do Gods work by bringing comfort to peoples........

We have persons in bible times who had answered names like Eli′athah which means
" God Has Come'"...............

The role such persons play is the reason why they are given such names not because it is who the person is.......
No man hath seen GOD(The Father) and so he sends his representatives who we can see and not die........

And expressions like God the son and God the holy spirit do not exist in the scriptures........what exists is just God the Father alone......

Am I lying??.....

ijawkid:

I have never in my life called Jesus God the son.....never ever......

Please when Jesus said he and the Father are one what do you think he actually meant??.....

John 17:20-23

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray
also for those who will believe in me through
their message, 21 that all of them may be
one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in
you. May they also be in us so that the world
may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have
given them the glory that you gave me, that
they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them
and you in me—so that they may be brought to
complete unity. Then the world will know that
you sent me and have loved them even as you
have loved me.



The above verse describes what ever Christ meant when he said I and the Father are one..........he wasn't refering to an ontological oneness if not we all would be GOD the almighty too are part of the GODhead........

Because of Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him,so Jesus could rightly say if you've seen me you've seen the Father......Jesus was a representative of the Father........

Now the truth is we are also in both Jesus and the Father.....that should even make higher than the both of them(Jesus and the Father)...........

Jesus being refered to as Immanuel in no way means it is God himself who is with us literally speaking.......its a name he'll bear because he was sent by God and would do Gods work by bringing comfort to peoples........

We have persons in bible times who had answered names like Eli′athah which means
" God Has Come'"...............

The role such persons play is the reason why they are given such names not because it is who the person is.......

No man hath seen GOD(The Father) and so he sends his representatives who we can see and not die........

And expressions like God the son and God the holy spirit do not exist in the scriptures........what exists is just God the Father alone......

Am I lying??.....

ijawkid:

You can as well ask the scriptures who granted the son to have life in himself........

There is nothing Jesus does or can do that was not given to him by his Father..

1.Creation
2..Ressurection..
3..Rulership


And as regards the Godhead definition...

Is God the Father part of a Godhead or he grants it to whom ever wishes??.....