@Drummaboy, i'v bn restraining maself from call u well let me just tell u here, ".....be strong in d grace that is in Christ Jesus", 2tim2:1-2. I'll still call u anyways. Bless u.

Tgirl4real: I would like to share this verses of scriptures with us today. I am not after whether it was written to Jews or gentiles or which ever dispensation as some would say. lol. It is the word of God and if you are a child of God it applies to you.


Revelations 3: 4-22

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

I got angry reading an old thread I contributed to this morning. The thread is about grace Vs obeying God's law. What is it with the gospel of grace that is unable to save anyone that we preach all around today? Why do we take one part and leave the other part that involves we living up to what we profess?

You claim God has saved...how do we know God has saved you if we don't see fruits of righteousness at work in you?

Reading scriptures this morning, I see a lot of contradictions between scriptures and what we preach out there. Many are expecting a Jesus that will rub their heads and give them bear hugs when he appears.

Hey! wake up! Judgement is at hand!

Don't let anyone deceive you. Search your heart and be true to what you believe.

James 4:17
"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

pls, can i paste this write up on my blog www.dailypower.blog.com

christemmbassey: I thought we had settled this at d grace convention, but it appears a lot of ppl were nt satisfied. Well, i'm here already, so sm ppl will have to bear with me. The gospel of Jesus is nothing else but d gospel of grace, if u remove grace, it ceases to b a 'gospel'(good news). Remove grace and u will discover dat there is nothing good about d news. OMG, do u guys actually know what GRACE IS? Without grace, there is no christianity, my brethren! Jn 3:16 " for God so loved the word that he GAVE......" Well make i dey follow d thread small small, lets see, i suspect, d holy spirit intends to promote sm1 here. Cheers.

lol.

And who could that be?


@ Goshen,

Continue what exactly? I'm not ignorant of what you posted, neither did I say I don't know what scriptures say about Grace n salvation.

I will only leave you with this scripture:

Ephesians 2:8-10King James Version (KJV)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9Not of works, lest any man shouldboast.10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

It's a complete package. U are saved so that you will do the works of your father just like your master Jesus Christ.

Tgirl4real:

lol.

And who could that be?


@ Goshen,

Continue what exactly? I'm not ignorant of what you posted, neither did I say I don't know what scriptures say about Grace n salvation.

I will only leave you with this scripture:

Ephesians 2:8-10King James Version (KJV)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9Not of works, lest any man shouldboast.10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

It's a complete package. U are saved so that you will do the works of your father just like your master Jesus Christ.

Noooooooo- not do the work, but live d life of ur father. And i think dat pesin na u! Seriously.

christemmbassey: Noooooooo- not do the work, but live d life of ur father. And i think dat pesin na u! Seriously.

hahahahaha...


Whatz d difference between doing the works of God and living the life of God.

All na semantics my brother.

Jesus is our example, how did he live?

Or the testimony of Jesus is not enough?

ayoku777: .

Where I disagree is when people say if you sin you become unrighteous, that's untrue. You can't lose your righteousness or even the Holy Spirit but you can refuse to profit with them if you don't move beyond the grace to become unto the grace to bring forth what you've become.

I disagree with you here pls.
1 corinthians 5:6 says-

6. .....Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
 9. I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church[b] whom you are to judge? 13 God judges[c] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

The above scripture went as far as saying that a brother who commIts any of these sin should not even be associated with and you want us to believe that the person is still riighteous even when he has commited sin? No sir. If the person is still righteous why then should he be addressed as an evil person that should be purged from among us according to verse 13? A righteous person therefore means one who is purged of evil.

akin emma: pls, can i paste this write up on my blog www.dailypower.blog.com

Very well sir.

You are free to post it.


@ Drummaboy,

If we are preoccupied with pleasing God, we shouldn't be bothered about those preaching tithe. Don't you think so? After all, we should leave God to judge the works.

If you know the danger of believing a false gospel, you wouldn't say that.

shdemidemi: @ alwaystrue and Tgirl

Are we under any covenant as Christians?

Who do we have here?

And how did I miss this post?

Where have you been?

You and Goshen are fond of asking funny questions. You come with the attitude of a teacher all the time and never willing to learn.

The simple question is "how do we know you are saved without showing fruits of righteousness?

And don't get me wrong...I'm not talking about you in particular.

Missed you BTW.

Tgirl4real:

Very well sir.

You are free to post it.


@ Drummaboy,

If we are preoccupied with pleasing God, we shouldn't be bothered about those preaching tithe. Don't you think so? After all, we should leave God to judge the works.

If you know the danger of believing a false gospel, you wouldn't say that.

And is there a distinction btw those who preach tithes and those who preach works?

'Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work' - Romans 11:5-6

'Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but beleiveth on Him that Justfieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness' - Romans 4:4-5

'For we are (God's) workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God had before ordained that we walk in them' - Ephesians 2:10

There is such a thing as a gospel of grace, dispensations, the new covenant, law of liberty, Christian good works, grace, elections, God's sovereignty, and many other extensions of God's manifold wisdom in the NT, which we can use to our advantage today.

It is the fault of modern New Age Another Gospellers that these rich themes of the NT are not taught today.

christemmbassey: @Drummaboy, i'v bn restraining maself from call u well let me just tell u here, ".....be strong in d grace that is in Christ Jesus", 2tim2:1-2. I'll still call u anyways. Bless u.

I hail O, my brother!

How Calabar this Independence day?

Goshen360:

1. Response to the highlight in RED. You said, there's nothing like the gospel of Grace.

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. Act 20:24

The gospel of Grace of God is what Paul, the Apostle RECEIVED of Christ Himself. How then did Grace of God became a gospel? It's very simple. In the OT, it was Christ CONCEALED and HIDDEN. In the NT, it is Christ REVEALED.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. For the law was given by Moses, but[b] grace and truth[/b] came by Jesus Christ. John 1:14 & 17

Now, let's follow the precept. Paul said he received a gospel from Christ and called it gospel of Grace. How did he call it 'gospel of grace'? if not the Lord Himself that gave it to him as he said he 'received' it from the Lord.

John 1:17 said grace and truth CAME by Christ. BUT, Law was GIVEN by Moses. It can GIVE you a gift without you seeing me or knowing me. I can send you something without COMING to you. BUT when I COME, I come in my fullness and I come for a relationship - so you can KNOW me beyond giving you something.

This is the an analogy. When the Law was GIVEN, the people did not know God as a way of RELATIONSHIP. But when Christ came, he said, I am the TRUTH. John said Grace and truth. If Christ is the TRUTH, it also means he is GRACE in person who have appeared to us from the Father. When we hear gospel of Grace, it is not a teaching, it is a revelation of Christ because Christ is GRACE OF GOD wrapped in TRUTH. Jesus also said, you will KNOW the TRUTH (me, Christ) and the TRUTH (Christ) will set you free. This Grace, preached is the gospel of CHRIST preached. It is not being preached as a compliment to the Law that came by Moses.

2. The ONLY gospel I know preached from Gen to Rev is the message of God's kingdom which can be simply put as: "repent for d kingdom of God is at hand"

The ONLY one gospel is the Gospel of Grace given BY CHRIST Himself TO THE CHURCH AFTER HIS RESURRECTION, starting with the Apostles.

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Gal 1:6

Another gospel means there's ONLY ONE - the gospel of grace of CHRIST. He says, removed FROM grace of Christ unto ANOTHER GOSPEL. This means, grace of Christ is a gospel we are not to be removed from UNTO ANOTHER GOSPEL.

Lemme hear your view, if necessary and we can continue.

I endorse this message 100%

DrummaBoy:

I hail O, my brother!

How Calabar this Independence day?

Calabar is still very clean and green, the warmest welcome in Africa, but tithe collectors and other gospellers plenty o. D worst off all are d fortune tellers who call themselves prophets, it is well sha.

@T-girl, do u know dat d gospel is nt for christians?

ayoku777: We need to begin to listen to eachother so see the big picture of the purposes of God. Both groups have a point but we often drif into extremes because we don't listen to eachother.

As I always say the dispensation of grace is not the age of God's indifference to what He hated under the law, its a change of approach to bringing us unto perfection. This is my Spirit-inspired (I believe) definition of grace: Grace is the overflow of the mercy of God that makes a man RECEIVE things above his merit and DO things beyond his power.

How did I miss this post again.

Grace has two sides, the side that helps us receive and the side that helps us release what we've received. The side that helps us become and the side that helps us bring forth what we've become.

I kinda agree with this, but I will rephrase as ...the grace that helps us believe and the grace that helps us live true to what we profess.

Where I disagree is when people say if you sin you become unrighteous, that's untrue. You can't lose your righteousness or even the Holy Spirit but you can refuse to profit with them if you don't move beyond the grace to become unto the grace to bring forth what you've become. And that part of grace involves some sacrifice on your part, like when Jesus told Paul, my grace is sufficient for you. Grace to travail, to supplicate and fellowship with the Holy Spirit to bring forth the glory of Christ is still in the New covenant

...to be continued.

What did Jesus say about a tree that bears no fruit?

It will be cut off.

What did he say about those that are neither hot or cold?

He will spew them out.

So, what does cut off and spew out mean?

Since Jesus cannot lose those the father has given him (salvation), then anyone that is not bearing fruit was never a part of the vine.

No all that say Lord, lord are saved.

They believed a lie, a false gospel and a false Christ. And their end is destruction.

christemmbassey: @T-girl, do u know dat d gospel is nt for christians?

Educate me please.

shdemidemi:

I don't think we can ever ignore the audience and the dispensations in the scriptures. I could be wrong but I believe it makes up the fundamentals of studying the word of GOD. The same God that told Abraham and Isaac to remain in Canaan told Jacob to go to Egypt. He remains one yet he changes His programme at will.

Yep. I get u. I was just saying this particular thread is not focusing on that.

@Op: I will say "Grace" is an 'Unmerited favor" bestowed upon us by God, knowing that we are imperfect and can never achieve perfection in whatever we do, no matter how much we try since sin is inherent in our personality, through "inheritance" from Adam. It is by Grace that we are even fit to call ourselves the children of God and God, through His Grace, is willing to overlook a lot of our shortcomings in as much as he sees the "intention to do good" (even if we fail whilst trying) in our heart.

This is my "general understanding" of that word but l hasten to add that even though we live "under His Grace", we cannot use it as an excuse to live in sin.
The Bible urges us as Christians, to be FREE (by His 'GRACE', even as we are sinners) but not to use our FREEDOM to commit sin.

The phrase "Gospel of Grace of God" should not be interpreted literally the way we interpret "Gospel" to mean 'Ministry or Church'!

The use of the Adverb "Gospel' in that phrase is just to illustrate or qualify the word "Grace" as a form of "Idea, method, procedure or means"

Where it was used in Acts 20:24, the Apostle was emphasizing that "He, though not qualified, but by the "Grace of God" (read: unqualified-for or unmerited mercy of God) now occupies the position of an Apostle and a child of God, opportuned to spread the good news and he is now "testifying" that he does not consider his own life as belonging to him, any longer, but to God through whose "Grace" he is preaching the Gospel and does not care if he loses his life in the process "after-all, his life and himself, was already lost but by that unmerited favor called GRACE, he is now saved' ......Not by his 'good works' but just because God decided to show him (and anyone who believes) such favor.

Now, can we start to build a "Ministry" on such words and/or in the process, start to 'CLAIM' that it gives us the liberty to shun responsibility for our actions and detach ourselves from the repercussions of our actions? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

"Grace" is a God-established "insurance" (so to speak) for those who WILL NEED IT, available to be tapped-into by all, when we give our life to Christ, show contrite for our deeds and sinful ways and [b]make-up our mind [/b]to walk in the ways of the Lord.
Note: To tap-into that "Grace", though not by "works perse" and being unmerited, we still need to show "contrite in our heart" and be ready to follow-through on the necessary pathway to salvation otherwise, that same Grace will vamoose just as it came upon us.

This is how l see and understand it. (without trying to befuddle anyone or myself in "Biblically-legal" jargon)

Lastpage!

Gosh I how wish i know and can quote the Bible like this?! From christian home but i feel lost

Trust in God's Grace not in your works. Don't use His Grace as a license to sin. We all need His Grace to overcome all trials and temptations. May God help us in Jesus Name, Amen.

Can we continue in SIN and expect grace to abound ? God Forbid!
Many grace preachers forget this cogent verse of the bible pertaining to Grace.

Grace does not give one the license to continue to Sin.
The way I understand it, Grace is available just for a repentant sinner. God sees the heart and can tell who is truely repentant.

Rhymeyjohn: According to Pastor W.F Kumuyi, Grace is simlply G.od's R.iches A.t Christ's E.xpense (GRACE). Its simplt an undeserved offer by God fufilled in His Son Jesus. You dont deserve it, so accept it the way you are but after accepting this grace, it demands something from you Work out your salvation with fear and trembling Grace dosent give a believer permissive with sin. God bless us

Rhymeyjohn: According to Pastor W.F Kumuyi, Grace is simlply G.od's R.iches A.t Christ's E.xpense (GRACE). Its simplt an undeserved offer by God fufilled in His Son Jesus. You dont deserve it, so accept it the way you are but after accepting this grace, it demands something from you Work out your salvation with fear and trembling Grace dosent give a believer permissive with sin. God bless us

Rhymeyjohn: According to Pastor W.F Kumuyi, Grace is simlply G.od's R.iches A.t Christ's E.xpense (GRACE). Its simplt an undeserved offer by God fufilled in His Son Jesus. You dont deserve it, so accept it the way you are but after accepting this grace, it demands something from you Work out your salvation with fear and trembling Grace dosent give a believer permissive with sin. God bless us

What is your own definition of grace? That's the question, not bro Kumuyi's definition. Or do you want to replace the Bible with bro Kumuyi's revelations?

@Tgirl4real,i kind of feel you and goshen are slightly saying the same thing..you are against the abuse of grace teachings which lead you to the conclusion that there is nothing like the gospel of grace(please quote me if am wrong about that)...i think this an issue that can be solved when we understand each other's point of view rather than making hasty conclusions..i think that will help..just my opinion!!

Goshen360: @ Tgirl,

Is there a message or teaching called the Gospel of Grace? If there is,

What is your understanding of the Gospel of Grace?

What are the distorted message of Grace you talking about and what thread you referring to?

I have a feelings you are still drinking 'milk' of the word.

I thought you were making sense, till I got to your last paragraph

alexleo:
The above scripture went as far as saying that a brother who commIts any of these sin should not even be associated with and you want us to believe that the person is still riighteous even when he has commited sin? No sir. If the person is still righteous why then should he be addressed as an evil person that should be purged from among us according to verse 13? A righteous person therefore means one who is purged of evil.

You're obviously confusing righteousness with perfection. So in your book, anyone who is not perfect or still has imperfections is not righteous? Have you heard the term, 'the perfecting of the saints' - Eph 4v12. Thats coz you can be a saint (saved and justified by faith) and still have imperfections.

23 years after scripture declared Abraham righteous by faith in Gen 15v6, God told him in Gen 17v1, walk before me and be thou perfect. So a man can be righteous for 23years and still not be perfect. Or the other way round, a man can be imperfect and still be righteous and a saint.

Righteousness is a gift of grace imputed into our regenerated spirit, its not provoked by works, neither can it be revoked by works. Just as people born in the image of the first Adam did good works under the law but it still couldn't justify them, people born again in the image of the last Adam too still do bad things but it can't revoke their righteousness. Coz righteousness is from faith to faith- Rom 1v17, in other words, it is received and retained by faith.

Its not immediately your spirit is regenerated in the new birth that your soul becomes reformed, thats why your appetites and addictions dont miraculously vanish after you become born again. But even before your soul gets reformed, your spirit stays regenerated, righteous and holy ghost-indwelt. A christian can never be unrighteous, he can only be imperfect. No sin can unregenerate the regenerated spirit of the new creation. Don't confuse the regeneration of the human spirit through the finished work of Christ, with the reformation of the human soul by the holy spirit. The two are different and dont happen simultaneously.

A day will come when you will know if it is you or her that is drinking "milk" you better open your eyes before it is too late...

Goshen360: @ Tgirl,

Is there a message or teaching called the Gospel of Grace? If there is,

What is your understanding of the Gospel of Grace?

What are the distorted message of Grace you talking about and what thread you referring to?

I have a feelings you are still drinking 'milk' of the word.

alexleo: I ve always disagreed with people who wants us to believe that once we are saved we cannot be regarded as sinners again even if we sin. They tell us that when someone in grace sins, it is no more counted for him. A lot of misleading teachings here that one should be careful not to fall into. These are the last days and we are warned about false prophets. Pls let's be very careful and prayerful. God hates sin till eternity.

A sin is a sin whether or not you're born again or not. The only thing is that when a Born Again Christian sins, he does not need to be born again twice cos you can only get born again once.

The Bible talked about people being given over to "itching ears..." 2nd Tim 4:3

bizmahn: @ OP, Praise God for you.One out of so many that suddenly began to see the truth of the perverted grace gospel being paraded on this forum.Grace preachers on this forum on the one hand condemn little things like tithe & offerings & yet they uphold a gospel that allows you to smoke,drink & allow all manner of vices in the hope that once you are saved grace does the rest & you have nothing more to do.End time damnable heresy.

Tgirl4real:

What did Jesus say about a tree that bears no fruit?

It will be cut off.

What did he say about those that are neither hot or cold?

He will spew them out.

So, what does cut off and spew out mean?

Since Jesus cannot lose those the father has given him (salvation), then anyone that is not bearing fruit was never a part of the vine.

No all that say Lord, lord are saved.

They believed a lie, a false gospel and a false Christ. And their end is destruction.

And what is your definition of a carnal christian or a babe in christ, if sinning means you were never in Christ. Sinning means your soul isn't fully reformed as your spirit has been regenerated. Stop mixing up the different stages of transformation in the life of a believer.

If you understand the 7 feasts of the Lord, you will know this - from passover, to unleavened, firstfruit, pentecost, trumpet, atonement and tabernacle. They represent remission, regeneration, restoration, baptism, revelation, reformation and perfection.

It takes most of us years, even decades to move from passover to parts of trumpet and atonement. Infact i don't think i've seen any believer who has stepped into the glory feast - tabernacle. But the church will get there before the gentile church age climaxes. Many believers die inbetween the passover and the atonement. But that doesn't mean they're not christians or will go to hell. You're born again and in Christ right from the passover stage of your walk with God

An imperfect christian is not an unrighteous christian or a false believer. Are you an unbeliever coz you're imperfect? Or are you perfect?

I love this girlllll! Preach it!!!

Tgirl4real: Goshen,

the intent of this thread is clear from d OP.

It's a call to repentance. A call to check ourselves and what we truly believe.

I didn't post my response to Debosky to say he is preaching a distorted gospel of grace, we were having a discussion, so you will do well not to conclude hastily.

I really don't fancy your style of throwing questions that can be easily deduced at me, but I would indulge u. To answer your question briefly, there is nothing like the gospel of grace.

The ONLY gospel I know preached from Gen to Rev is the message of God's kingdom which can be simply put as:

"repent for d kingdom of God is at hand"

John 3:16 sums it up.

If you actually attend Christ embassy then you don miss road pata pata! The worst abuse of grace I have heard of... Christ Embassy members, pray that God opens your eyes before it is too late o! Heaven bears me witness that I have warned you!

christemmbassey: I thought we had settled this at d grace convention, but it appears a lot of ppl were nt satisfied. Well, i'm here already, so sm ppl will have to bear with me. The gospel of Jesus is nothing else but d gospel of grace, if u remove grace, it ceases to b a 'gospel'(good news). Remove grace and u will discover dat there is nothing good about d news. OMG, do u guys actually know what GRACE IS? Without grace, there is no christianity, my brethren! Jn 3:16 " for God so loved the word that he GAVE......" Well make i dey follow d thread small small, lets see, i suspect, d holy spirit intends to promote sm1 here. Cheers.