NativeBoy:

You should believe in Jesus because of your sins. I am neither judging nor condemning you. I am also a sinner; every single person is a sinner. Jesus is the one who has reconciled us with God the Father that we may be able to stand before Him knowing that our sins don't condemn us.

Indeed most of the Jewish leaders rejected him, but not all Jews rejected him. The early church in fact was almost all Jewish. The jewish leadership rejected him because they knew his truth was a threat to their rule. But you have to ask, what was so special about Jesus especially in a time when so many claimed to be the Messiah? Why did the Jewish leadership want him dead so badly that they chose to vindicate a known murderer? You see, Christ was proved at every opportunity even when it was told that he rose from the dead. Even his own disciples didn't believe it (no doubt you know the story involving the disciple thomas) which is to show you that they weren't the gullible unthinking minds as Christians are often arguing of being.

You rightly state the crucial piece. If Jesus did not rise, then Christianity is vain. But if he rose again, then we must all look to him for he us truth.

He rose again.

I don't need anyone to reconcile me with God, I was Never apart from him

The Jews were against him not because of power or any threat but because Jesus was blasphemous against their religion. He tried to modify their laws, he wasn't as discriminative as a typical Jew, he didn't observe the sabbath day rule.
He opposed them, that's why the people wished him dead.

And the Jesus of the Bible is so smart, he allowed himself to be crucified, knowing that he would resurrect and gain promotion in heaven. Your Jesus was very ambitious, he knew wat he wanted from the beginning and honestly didn't give a dime about Christians.

InesQor: This is primarily for nwuyag:



First off, there is an error in understanding within this question: Adam and Eve were neither Jews nor Hebrews; and the Bible does not make this claim in any way.

A genetic science outlook
In genetic science, the names Adam and Eve are used metaphorically in a scientific context to designate the patrilineal and matrilineal most recent common ancestors, i.e. the Y-chromosomal Adam and the Mitochondrial Eve. A recent study on the subject estimates that the Y-chromosomal Adam lived 120 to 156 thousand years ago, while the Mitochondrial Eve lived 99 to 148 thousand years ago. Another recent study places the Y-chromosomal Adam 180 to 200 thousand years ago. (See this Wikipedia article on the Y-chromosomal Adam and the Mitochondrial Eve http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam since it easily includes references)

Neither is permanently fixed on a single individual, but the possibility of that has not been completely ruled out. YET. Which means there is a possibility that Y-chromosomal Adam may have been a community, as well as Mitochondrial Eve was a community OR they could have been individuals.

Incest and genetic defects in the Old Testament
In the early days of man the children from the union of a brother and sister would not have been deformed as often happens today, since Adam and Eve were physically perfect in every way. There was nothing wrong with inbreeding for many thousands of years because Adam and Eve were created with perfect genes. As time proceeded, man's physical body suffered more and more,


until the time came that God forbade the marrying of brother and sister, since their offspring were now likely to be deformed. (The more closely related you are to someone the more defects you have in common, which may show in your offspring).

what caused the suffering of the body and deformation if an all perfect God made it. You are obviously telling me all these cos science has discovered a lot. this would never have been your anwer if we were in the10th centur
where did god stop inbreeding?, I thought its the catholic church that started that

So the laws of incest were not given until the time of Moses. Abraham was able to marry his half-sister without problems, but by the time of Moses God had to make a law prohibiting inbreeding because BY THEN the genetic defects due to inbreeding were beginning to appear.

I see the increase of such appearances of genetic defects over the timeline of humanity in much the same way I see human beings generally reducing in immunity the older they grow.

A similar problem for the evolution theory
I am a theistic evolutionist, i.e. I believe God USED evolution as a TOOL in his creation. But even the pure evolutionist must begin with two cells or two microbes or whatever - as well - or perhaps one, for asexual reproduction. Aren't adverse effects from a small gene pool a problem for the evolutionary model as well, in the 'early stages of life on earth'? This question of yours also poses a problem for evolution. Since inbreeding causes so many problems, the general trend for genetic mutation is down--even if one in every hundred mutations was beneficial, all is still going down fast!

Of course the pure evolutionist can refer to natural selection as the way the evolutionary process facilitates advancement of speciation. And why can't the theistic evolutionist accept this natural selection as a careful process ordained by God to ensure human population growth up until a point where inbreeding is now no longer necessary, but has rather become a harmful procedure?

I really don't buy your story, sorry...
you are bending your answers as to the proven scientific discoveries. The same way the catholic church first battled with galileo when he said the eaith was sperical and then they later accepted it and decided to bend and twist things to suit that

macof: I prefer to believe the words of my ancestors than the words of the Jews who don't even regard u

I'm not too bothered about what the Jews thing about me, I'm more concerned about what God thinks and I know for sure He loves me much.

InesQor: This is primarily for nwuyag:



It makes perfect sense that God will reveal himself to people in a way that they will understand and easily relate to, provided that he is trying to establish a relationship with them.

This is after all, one reason why a loving mother will coo-coo baby talk to her precious infant. In the infant's mind I guess they'll think of the mother like some big baby as well.

Unless I'm missing something this is a set of opinions and not a question or questions.

And there, I am done.

You did not get the point of this question.
why Jews only, what happened to asians at that time. There were soo many cultures, so why the jews in particular?

macof: I don't need anyone to reconcile me with God, I was Never apart from him

The Jews were against him not because of power or any threat but because Jesus was blasphemous against their religion. He tried to modify their laws, he wasn't as discriminative as a typical Jew, he didn't observe the sabbath day rule.
He opposed them, that's why the people wished him dead.

And the Jesus of the Bible is so smart, he allowed himself to be crucified, knowing that he would resurrect and gain promotion in heaven. Your Jesus was very ambitious, he knew wat he wanted from the beginning and honestly didn't give a dime about Christians.

We are probably derailing the thread a bit. I hope the OP won't mind too much.

Jesus didn't come to undo the belief system of the Jews. He was the very embodiment of it, the perfect fulfillment of the law. If any thing, Jesus showed us that the law was more difficult to live by than what the rabbis taught. But more importantly than that he came to show us the heart of God.

With regards to the sabbath, it was a matter of the rabbis worshipping the creature more than the creator. Yes, God commands the sabbath to be a day of rest, but did that mean you couldn't heal the sick, or prepare a meal. The rabbis saw Jesus as a threat because his understanding of the scriptures superseded their own and he taught the people with authority.

I don't understand by what you mean by saying was looking to get promoted in heaven.

noblefada:
I'm not too bothered about what the Jews thing about me, I'm more concerned about what God thinks and I know for sure He loves me much.

good. But why do u think Christianity is the only way to God?

NativeBoy:

We are probably derailing the thread a bit. I hope the OP won't mind too much.

Jesus didn't come to undo the belief system of the Jews. He was the very embodiment of it, the perfect fulfillment of the law. If any thing, Jesus showed us that the law was more difficult to live by than what the rabbis taught. But more importantly than that he came to show us the heart of God.

With regards to the sabbath, it was a matter of the rabbis worshipping the creature more than the creator. Yes, God commands the sabbath to be a day of rest, but did that mean you couldn't heal the sick, or prepare a meal. The rabbis saw Jesus as a threat because his understanding of the scriptures superseded their own and he taught the people with authority.

I don't understand by what you mean by saying was looking to get promoted in heaven.

I thought everything u Christians do or say is according to wat is written in ur Bible. Pls do not assume anything here, the Jewish priests were not threatened, they never were, Judaism has never for a day been threatened by Christianity, they don't take u guys seriously. But u take them too seriously, Afterall they are your masters

That I don't even like talking abt cus, it irritates me to think about it.

Nwuyag, I will reply to you all at once in this post.

First off, you need to understand:
[size=13pt]There's really nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. As I said, these issues are things that Theology PhD students and professors of higher qualifications than myself and yourself have struggled with for centuries, arguing on both sides, and they still do till this very minute.[/size]

nwuyag:
.
what do you mean by "we".
I really cant fathom how i am accused of something I knew nothing about, except from a book given to me when young

Wait, why are you asking for a Christian's opinion and then I respond with "we" referring to Christians and you're complaining? Does that make sense, seeing that you're not Christian? You asked for reason why we believe what we believe and I have told you.

nwuyag: This is your opinion

That's what I said earlier, there is no satisfying some of you. You asked for my reasons, I gave them, and you're replying "Your opinion"? Whose opinion was I meant to tell you. Yours?

---

nwuyag: All jesus was talking about was jews, so what happened to other parts of the world at that time. How do asians get to take blame for what the jews did?

So did you miss where I said there were people from foreign countries who were non-Jews? Like Job, Melchizedek and Jethro? Or did the Bible have to list every Han and Ching in Asia as well? And every Kehinde in Ile Ife?

And where did I say Asians or anyone had to take blame for anything? Did you miss where I said the burden of guilt was on the Jews? And as Christians, we come into the Jewish family, which is why I use "we" for Christians? Did you read all of that, did your preconceived notions cloud them?

---

nwuyag: what caused the suffering of the body and deformation if an all perfect God made it. You are obviously telling me all these cos science has discovered a lot. this would never have been your anwer if we were in the10th centur
where did god stop inbreeding?, I thought its the catholic church that started that

What caused the suffering? You need to be clear. If you're asking for a Christian response, I'll tell you it was sin. If you're asking for a scientific response you'll need to wait for science to tell us why things have recently, generally, been devolving over time. Don't ask me that. I am not qualified to respond on behalf of science.

OF COURSE I am telling you all these because science discovered it! How else would I communicate it to you? Using the Bible, considering it didn't explain that? And EVEN IF IT DID, you would REJECT it? So this statement of yours makes no sense, sorry. If I was not there at that time, then how else can I explain it to you TODAY except via science's modern discovery?

Where did God stop inbreeding? This is an ignorant statement but I will accept it in good faith of your ignorance of the scriptures.
Leveticus 18:6-18

---

nwuyag: I really don't buy your story, sorry...
you are bending your answers as to the proven scientific discoveries. The same way the catholic church first battled with galileo when he said the eaith was sperical and then they later accepted it and decided to bend and twist things to suit that

Did you even understand what I wrote there?
Are the adverse effects from a small gene pool NOT also a problem for evolution, in the earlier stages of life on earth'?
So I'll pass on your knee-jerk response because I cannot see its relevance to the matter.

---

nwuyag:
You did not get the point of this question.
why Jews only, what happened to asians at that time. There were soo many cultures, so why the jews in particular?

Did you miss this below?
Why not Israel?
And why not Israel? If God had say, chosen Egypt (assuming that there had been someone like Abraham, from way back in Egypt), today the sceptic's question would be "[size=13pt]Why did God choose Egypt?[/size]"

---

nwuyag: @ inesquo
I guess that I made it clear earlier on that I am in no way gullible. its my nature, so from the moment you have to start looking for sources and serching the web for guide on the questions, a thinking mind will raise doubts. You should know that using the words like " what I believe", will definitely give me doubts since I was told that the bible is written under the inspiration of the. holy spirit. So you don't believe an explanation to anything, it should be clearly stated. And theworst of all is that when I take. random survey with 5 different xtians/ apologists, answers that I will get might be incogruous wrt the same holyspirit. so, the obvious question to then follow is " why take this serious and waste your time?", bingo!!!, and that's it

Oh please. All my thoughts here are clearly delineated on my blog and also in many posts that I have made on Nairaland on my past and current handles.

Again, I say:
There's really nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. As I said, these issues are things that Theology PhD students and professors of higher qualifications than myself and yourself have struggled with for centuries, arguing on both sides, and they still do till this very minute.

You asked for my reasoned explanation (beyond dogmatic acceptance) and I have given you. What else do you want, really?

ETA: If it were THIS possible to explain away every element of belief or disbelief, every intelligent person on earth would either believe in God or would NOT believe in God. Everyone has their reasoned out thoughts for belief or disbelief. Then all take a leap of faith.

macof: good. But why do u think Christianity is the only way to God?

Because everything in the bible is about Christ, you guys only see Jesus in NT but he is actually revealed from genesis to malachi, it will amazed you to know that everything about Jesus was already predicted n revealed in the OT, it didn't do anything new, but only fulfill what men have been waiting for years, reconciliation with God. So Jesus did not just wake one day n took it upon himself to save the world, no he had been revealed long long ago.
Again Jesus was not the first to be killed by the Jews because they oppose their way of life, go read the OT, you will see so many, starting from zachariah the priest to Stephen, the first martyr of Christ n James the brother of John

Atheists be like "Christianity is irrational".
Some Christians be like "Well I have thought its elements through and it makes rational sense to me. I do not accept it just because it seems true"
Atheists be like "Let's hear you out"
Christian explains the reason behind his acceptance, which is not ROUTINE DOGMA like the Atheist expected.
Atheists be like "That's nonsense, I am not gullible! How dare you tell me that? Bla bla bla"

Hasn't the Christian proven that his thought process was rational? Which is what he set out to do?

There is a difference between calling a set of thoughts irrational and saying that you do not accept it as true.

Abeg abeg.

noblefada:
Because everything in the bible is about Christ, you guys only see Jesus in NT but he is actually revealed from genesis to malachi, it will amazed you to know that everything about Jesus was already predicted n revealed in the OT, it didn't do anything new, but only fulfill what men have been waiting for years, reconciliation with God. So Jesus did not just wake one day n took it upon himself to save the world, no he had been revealed long long ago.
Again Jesus was not the first to be killed by the Jews because they oppose their way of life, go read the OT, you will see so many, starting from zachariah the priest to Stephen, the first martyr of Christ n James the brother of John

point of correction- what THE JEWS HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR years

macof: point of correction- what THE JEWS HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR years

Again u err, pls read the bible esp the book of Isaiah u'll not only Jews eagerly waited for the messiah, let me just quote one passage Isa 60:3-5 KJV 3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising . Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. 5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
Though salvation originated from the Jews, but was made available to all, I'm a partakers and I'm not a Jew.

noblefada:
Again u err, pls read the bible esp the book of Isaiah u'll not only Jews eagerly waited for the messiah, let me just quote one passage Isa 60:3-5 KJV 3 And [b] the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising [\b] . Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. 5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
Though salvation originated from the Jews, but was made available to all, I'm a partakers and I'm not a Jew.

Do u really believe this shit applies to u? Damn!! How gullible can you be?

Salvation came through the Jews
Who brought the story of sin in the first place?

And did your ancestors ever preach about any salvation? Cause my Ancestors did not, If the Yoruba people needed salvation, the ancient Yoruba would have preached it.

This salvation shit applies only to the Jews, cause only them preached it. you have no business with Jews and their beliefs.

Wait a minute, wat ethnic group do u belong to? I know for a fact that no Nigerian ethnic group preached about any Adam and Eve, or any Saviour coming to deliver them.

@ inesquor,
I just want. to summarize it all here.

when I said "that's. yout opinion", I meant, I do not want your own personal opinion cos I ve got a different answer to that. I don't really understand all that you are trying to say right there or maybe we are not going on the same. line. Besides, I am not a perpetual reader, and I ve got other things. to do with my time, so let me give a simpler explanation of my stance;

CHRISTIANITY IS IRATIONAL:
I ve been attending bible study since as. a kid and as I am talking to you, I have more than 100 questions to ask as to how xtianity and god apply to our lives,; the use of prayer, what type of prayer to say. how ot whethet god exists, and soooo ooon.
some have been put up here on NL.
I ve got other things to do so I don't have time to be on NL arguments. I think its better sitting with someone 1 on 1 and clearing completely every single question that I have before I can consider xtianity being rational. I will keep starting threads on nl for this tho. I am taking an agnostic stance on this, so if anygod actually exists, then its HIS FAULT, not mine.
Since the day that I got this resolution and decided to leave xtianity, all but one of my doubts have been cleared. I realised that the god/religion factor was the stumbling block to all these...and I am free now. The only puzzle remaining is as to evolution which is not easily acceptable to me. I therefore come to the stance thqt science is not PERFECT, so using god to fill up the gaps is ridiculus.
Like I said, if any exists, then he/she is just not worth taking serious.
I really wonder how you xtians do it, despite all these and right now in my life, there is no role for god to play
This is the stance of so many unbelievers.

InesQor: @ifeness:

Hi atheist. Where's the evidence for your claim "Christianity is meant for dull people"?

Google it.
Studies and studies have linked religion with lower IQ, lower education, lower income, lower contribution to scientific progress, and a host of personality disorders, notable, paranoi, schizophrenia, and Obsessive compulsive Disorders.


This is from wiki-

Studies comparing religious belief and I.Q.

In a 2013 meta-analysis, led by Professor Miron Zuckerman, of 63 scientific studies about IQ and religiosity, a reliable negative relation between intelligence and religiosity was found in 53 out of 63 studies.[8][9]

In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of white American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence, demonstrated that atheists scored an average of 1.95 IQ points higher than agnostics, 3.82 points higher than liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than dogmatic persuasions.[10]


The relationship between countries' belief in a god and average Intelligence Quotient, measured by Lynn, Harvey & Nyborg.[11]
Nyborg also co-authored a study with Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at the University of Ulster, which compared religious belief and average national IQs in 137 countries.[11] The study analysed the issue from several viewpoints. Firstly, using data from a U.S. study of 6,825 adolescents, the authors found that atheists scored 6 IQ points higher than non atheists.

Secondly, the authors investigated the link between religiosity and intelligence on a country level. Among the sample of 137 countries, only 23 (17%) had more than 20% of atheists, which constituted “virtually all... higher IQ countries.” The authors reported a correlation of 0.60 between atheism rates and level of intelligence, which was determined to be “highly statistically significant”.[11]

Professor Gordon Lynch, director of the Centre for Religion and Contemporary Society from London's Birkbeck College, expressed concern that the study failed to take into account a complex range of social, economic and historical factors, each of which has been shown to interact with religion and IQ in different ways.[12] Gallup surveys, for example, have found that the world's poorest countries are consistently the most religious, perhaps because religion plays a more functional role (helping people cope) in poorer nations.[2][3]

Commenting on some of the above studies in The Daily Telegraph, Lynn said "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God."[12] A study published in Social Psychology Quarterly in March 2010[13] also stated that "atheism ...correlate[s] with higher intelligence".

There , you have your proof that religion is for mentally dull people.

InesQor: Atheists be like "Christianity is irrational".
Some Christians be like "Well I have thought its elements through and it makes rational sense to me. I do not accept it just because it seems true"
Atheists be like "Let's hear you out"
Christian explains the reason behind his acceptance, which is not ROUTINE DOGMA like the Atheist expected.
Atheists be like "That's nonsense, I am not gullible! How dare you tell me that? Bla bla bla"

Hasn't the Christian proven that his thought process was rational? Which is what he set out to do?

There is a difference between calling a set of thoughts irrational and saying that you do not accept it as true.

Abeg abeg.

10 reasons why christianity is irrational are up there, yet you post the above trash of a comment.

Address the ten reasons before you claim that you have proven christianity to be sensible.

macof:

Do u really believe this shit applies to u? Damn!! How gullible can you be?

Salvation came through the Jews
Who brought the story of sin in the first place?

And did your ancestors ever preach about any salvation? Cause my Ancestors did not, If the Yoruba people needed salvation, the ancient Yoruba would have preached it.

This salvation shit applies only to the Jews, cause only them preached it. you have no business with Jews and their beliefs.

Wait a minute, wat ethnic group do u belong to? I know for a fact that no Nigerian ethnic group preached about any Adam and Eve, or any Saviour coming to deliver them.

I guess this ur advice is coming a bit late, because if salvation was only for the Jews I don't I think I should received the Holy Spirit, but alas I've rocking the Holy Spirit for more than 10 yrs now.

plaetton:

Google it.
Studies and studies have linked religion with lower IQ, lower education, lower income, lower contribution to scientific progress, and a host of personality disorders, notable, paranoi, schizophrenia, and Obsessive compulsive Disorders.

---

There , you have your proof that religion is for mentally dull people.

No, these meta-studies do not prove that Christianity / religion is MEANT for dull people.

It shows that less intelligent people tend to be more religious, mostly for reasons like sense of control, self regulation, enhancement and a sense of belonging. THIS DOES NOT MEAN that intelligent people cannot also be very religious.

If you can't see the difference between the two statements then, never mind.

Logicboy03:


10 reasons why christianity is irrational are up there, yet you post the above trash of a comment.

Address the ten reasons before you claim that you have proven christianity to be sensible.

@LB thought u left the thread, asked a question up there still waiting for a reply.

macof: I thought everything u Christians do or say is according to wat is written in ur Bible. Pls do not assume anything here, the Jewish priests were not threatened, they never were, Judaism has never for a day been threatened by Christianity, they don't take u guys seriously. But u take them too seriously, Afterall they are your masters

That I don't even like talking abt cus, it irritates me to think about it.

I'm not assuming anything. Christianity is the next phase of Judaism since the prophecy of messiah that the Jewish scripture points to has been fulfilled by Christ.

Also to your point. I don't see how a profession of faith in Christ means Jews are my master?

noblefada:
@LB thought u left the thread, asked a question up there still waiting for a reply.

RePeat the question pls

noblefada:
I guess this ur advice is coming a bit late, because if salvation was only for the Jews I don't I think I should received the Holy Spirit, but alas I've rocking the Holy Spirit for more than 10 yrs now.

I used to think like you, I believed so much in wat the Jews said, and had no regard for my Yoruba beliefs. You better open your eyes and don't die for another man's course.

Logicboy03: 1)We are told in that Mary got pregnant with Jesus without intercourse or an earthly father. Where does the other half of his chromosomes come from?


2)We are told that God sent his only begotten son to die for our sins. Is there a problem with forgiving sins without the death of somebody?


3)We are told that Yahweh is the God of Isreal. Why would a good God choose one set of people over another? Is there a problem speaking to other people around the world at the same time? Why must all his prophets be Jews?



4)We are told that we come from two human beings- Adam and Eve. However, science/history proves this impossible because Jews/Hebrews were far from being the first humans on earth and also, the world could not be possibly populated by 2 human beings into 7 billion given the particular space of time and incest.


5)We are told that Jesus was a peaceful man. However, Jesus scattered the merchandise of traders in the church/synagogue and chased them with whips. Such an action in any civilized country is jail time for destruction of private property and assault.


6)Paul in the bible remains one of the greatest examples for sexism. Yet, we are to believe that the bible is the word of a divine and merciful God.
(http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html)


7)Did Jesus really sacrifice himself? Did he really do anything for us? If I know that I am going to a place called heaven which is an everlasting paradise, why wouldnt I go and get myself crucified? I am only accepting the crucifixion for a reward- this is no sacrifice.


All christian historians and scholars will agree that the bible is incomplete. Yet, we are still using the bible as divine inspiration. What if further explanations, abrogations and commandments are in those missing books of the bible? Even the translation of the bible from the original languages is not complete...some words cant be accurately translated......

9) How could Adam and Eve have grandchildren without inbreeding occurring with their children?

10)The most irrational thing that I find is that the God as described in the bible suspiciously has all the characteristics of a Jewish man in the early centuries.
-He chooses his Jewish people over others (Jewish prophets, God of isreal)
-Sexist laws (http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html)
-believes in sacrifice (eg Cain and abel's sacrifice, Jesus sacrifice on the cross)
-mostly supports the Jews in wars
-never mentions any ancient lands/people that jews have never been to (eg hanan, aztecs, etc)
-never mentions any technology that the jews never had access to
-never once suggested that slavery is one of the most evil things a man can do to another
-believed in the death penalty as ascribed by many Jewish laws.

Let's just start with your point 1.

If God is the creator of everything, then would this along with everything else not be a nonissue for Him.

macof: I used to think like you, I believed so much in wat the Jews said, and had no regard for my Yoruba beliefs. You better open your eyes and don't die for another man's course.

No I don't think you were ever like me, because if u were, u won't talking about any yoruba religion, nothing can be compared to the HS in a man.

noblefada:
No I don't think you were ever like me, because if u were, u won't talking about any yoruba religion, nothing can be compared to the HS in a man.

So wat are u trying to say? Are u trying to disrepute the Religion of my ancestors?

And this Holy spirit as u describe it has no power outside Jerusalem cause if it did it would keep Christians in good character unless the holy spirit is incompetent.

I prefer to thick with my Yoruba version of Irunmole

NativeBoy:

Let's just start with your point 1.

If God is the creator of everything, then would this along with everything else not be a nonissue for Him.

okay, move to point two

Logicboy03:


okay, move to point two

Point 2: Please provide a definition of forgiveness. It's important that we both understand what we are talking about.

NativeBoy:
Point 2: Please provide a definition of forgiveness. It's important that we both understand what we are talking about.

Quote a dictionary if you need to. Just get on with your point

macof: I don't need anyone to reconcile me with God, I was Never apart from him

The Jews were against him not because of power or any threat but because Jesus was blasphemous against their religion. He tried to modify their laws, he wasn't as discriminative as a typical Jew, he didn't observe the sabbath day rule.
He opposed them, that's why the people wished him dead.

And the Jesus of the Bible is so smart, he allowed himself to be crucified, knowing that he would resurrect and gain promotion in heaven. Your Jesus was very ambitious, he knew wat he wanted from the beginning and honestly didn't give a dime about Christians.

this really reverberates

NativeBoy:

Let's just start with your point 1.

If God is the creator of everything, then would this along with everything else not be a nonissue for Him.

if this is true, then he made the natural laws and he broke it...

why do we blame our politicians for being corrupt again? they are just being like their god..

NativeBoy:
Point 2: Please provide a definition of forgiveness. It's important that we both understand what we are talking about.

I dont think this should be a problem. Forgiveness is simply overlooking the wrong of the person. If you have a contrary definition to this, put it forward.