rabzy: In 1914 (Around January):
Evidently in response to those who were claiming that Russell was expecting the end of the world in 1914, early in 1914 Russell released the article in “The Bible Students Monthly”, entitled: “End of the Word in 1914 – Not the View of Pastor Russell, Nor of the I.B.S.A.” Russell was not expecting the end of the world in 1914.

In 1914 (Before October):
Suppose that the Gentile Times should end in October, 1914, what would be the logical thing to expect? Well, I am not sure what to expect.[i][/i] {Page Q89} We could not be sure, we would not know, whether it would take the Lord fifteen minutes or fifteen days or fifteen years to put out the kingdoms of this world. — What Pastor Russell Said, Question 79:1.

You tried, but hisblud is not even interested in the truth. He likes to stay blind.

rabzy:

This is a part of a letter russell sent to a reader and it answers this question.

As respects my education in Greek and Hebrew: Not only do I not claim very special knowledge of either language, but I claim that not one minister in a thousand is either a Hebrew or a Greek scholar. To be able to spell out a few Greek words is of no earthly value. Nor is it necessary longer to study these languages, in order to have knowledge of the Bible. Our Presbyterian friends have gotten out at great cost Young’s Analytical Hebrew, Chaldaic, Greek and English Lexicon Concordance, which anyone may procure. And our Methodist friends have issued a similar work– Strong’s Analytical Concordance and Lexicon. And there is a still older one entitled Englishman’s Hebrew, Chaldaic, Greek and English Lexicon and Concordance.
Additionally, Liddell and Scott’s Greek Lexicon is a standard authority. The prices of these are not beyond the reach of the average man. By these works scholarly information respecting the original text of the Bible is obtainable. I have all four of these works and have used them faithfully. Very few college professors, even, would risk to give a critical translation of any text of Scripture without consulting these very works of reference, which are standard. To merely learn to read the Greek and Hebrew without a six years’ course in their grammars is more likely to hinder than to help in Bible study; far better take the acknowledged scholarship to which I have referred.

Additionally I remind you of the many translations of the Bible now extant–all of them very good. I have all of these and find them useful in comparison in the study of any text–one sometimes giving a thought which another may not. The other day, for curiosity’s sake, I counted Bibles in different translations, etc., in my study and found that I have thirty-two.


The NWT was published decades later.

thanks but no link is provided.

JMAN05:

The bolded only showed that you lied against him. My reason for enhancing that text is to show you the lie you wrote that he said 'it is generally agreed that 607 BCE, was the year of babylon's desolation'. And what you intend to show me further proved the point as against yours.

hei wait there pls. was this not what trogunn discussed here

TroGunn:
True, Secular history has it that the babylonians destroyed Jerusalem in 587 BCas against 607 BC as taught by JW. Now, secular history is known to be wrong. And when you consider the basis for the 587 BC date, you'll realise that it's almost certainly wrong.
The Bible points to 607BC as the date Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem. Here's how:

refering to the fall of babylon or jerusalem in 607BC which jw hold as when they started counting to reach 1914? Am i lying?

JMAN05:

lack of seriousness.

oh are you afraid to give the bible russel used, calling me unserious?

JMAN05:

The gentile times ended that year, and Christ became king. however, at that time like I said, they never knew fully what was going to happen. they thought they will be receiving their reward that year. there expectation of reward was not stated in that chronology, but it was just their expectation. I think I provided that to show that the time of trouble was to start that year (in October), NOT end? I dont know why you shifted to another thing. If I observed you are not serious, I will simply ignore your submission.

I have repeated this before, but your focus is always in the wrong expectation to which i ve admitted. The gentile times did end as the chronology shows.

hmm, the gentile times ended- i find you so deceptive here. Jw believe the gentile rulership on earth will end. Uptil now gentiles are ruling and you keep saying their rule has ended. Oh you meant their "invincible" rulership will end ko? Ok your arch angel christ has already started ruling in 1914. Well am ok wit the above as long is not the Son of YHWH that is yet to appear but another another jesus.

hisblud: oh are you afraid to give the bible russel used, calling me unserious?

You keep asking this question. What does it mean for you? Do you want to worship the Bible Russell used or declare the Bible a "saint"? Someone even bothered to respond that Russell consulted multiple translations, like any serious Bible student would do, yet you keep on with the question that bothers on infantile.

The Bible verses listed earlier on this Bible chronology - are they missing in your Bible?

It's actually better to be quiet when one has run out of things to say, you know.

hisblud: thanks but no link is provided.

This is taken from the Watch Tower, September 15, 1914, pages 286, 287.

hisblud: thanks but no link is provided.

Russell was replying one of his readers who asked him a question and his response was what i pasted above. The response was published in the Watch Tower, September 15, 1914, pages 286, 287 (Reprints, page 5543)

hisblud: hei wait there pls.

ok, so where did he say that 607 BCE is generally accepted Chief Executive of Liars Association?

was this not what trogunn discussed here refering to the fall of babylon or jerusalem in 607BC which jw hold as when they started counting to reach 1914? Am i lying?

Dont divert. where did he say that 607 BCE is generally accepted? okwu e bie!!

hisblud: oh are you afraid to give the bible russel used, calling me unserious?

he used the xtian bible.

JMAN05:

ok, so where did he say that 607 BCE is generally accepted Chief Executive of Liars Association?



Dont divert. where did he say that 607 BCE is generally accepted? okwu e bie!!

Hi Jman05....i appreciate your perseverance and all the interesting things you have quoted above, i just want to implore you to please leave out the insults...., its not necessary, it detracts from what is being discussed and it definitely offensive to the person being addressed. In the course of discussing the Bible there is absolutely no need to quarrel or abuse.

While some people tried to get under our skin and even insult us, we should try not not return the insults...proverbs 17:14said 'before the quarell burst forth take your leave.
Its better not to have the discussion than to engage in quarrelling and insults.

Cheers man

hisblud: hmm, the gentile times ended- i find you so deceptive here. Jw believe the gentile rulership on earth will end. Uptil now gentiles are ruling and you keep saying their rule has ended. Oh you meant their "invincible" rulership will end ko? Ok your arch angel christ has already started ruling in 1914. Well am ok wit the above as long is not the Son of YHWH that is yet to appear but another another jesus.

do you even believe that He has a son. call him your "almighty God". calling him a son is a denigration.

See you calling YHWH, when you serve a false god. Did you faithfully live that name in your bible? no, you rather removed it. now you are calling it to pretend as angel of light. we know you.

rabzy:

Hi Jman05....i appreciate your perseverance and all the interesting things you have quoted above, i just want to implore you to please leave out the insults...., its not necessary, it detracts from what is being discussed and it definitely offensive to the person being addressed. In the course of discussing the Bible there is absolutely no need to quarrel or abuse.

While some people tried to get under our skin and even insult us, we should try not not return the insults...proverbs 17:14said 'before the quarell burst forth take your leave.
Its better not to have the discussion than to engage in quarrelling and insults.

Cheers man

I just hate liars. even when you say the truth and try to prove the truth with all sincerity, they are just not ready to accept, but keep being blind and launching lies upon lies. That guy is not worthy to be told anything serious. I dont hate people who bring reasonable objection to our teaching no matter what, but I HATE PEOPLE WHO ARE INSINCERE BUT WHO RATHER TREAT YOU HONESTY AS RUBBISH.

I think Jesus felt the same way when he called the pharisees many unbearable names. because they hate the truth, but like lies. compare Matt. 23:1-37.

Well, you are still correct. But I better leave him for you guys, cos my bones doesnt accept insincerity at all. But it seems like some here love that method. I will adopt a new approach, maybe by ignoring them.

@hisblud

Am so sorry for calling you names, I never meant to. its just imperfection. hope you accept the apology. But I wont continue this discussion with you. if in our subsequent discussion, I sense the sincerity of your inquiry, I will resume replying you.

I love you. Peace!!!

JMAN05:

Hmmm, your mind is decaying. hebrew word for angel? Yet your gibberish is helpless.

go here to see my "gibberish" in fully color https://www.nairaland.com/1506699/jman05-please-defend-jehovahs-witnesses/16#19801701

TroGunn:

You keep asking this question. What does it mean for you? Do you want to worship the Bible Russell used or declare the Bible a "saint"? Someone even bothered to respond that Russell consulted multiple translations, like any serious Bible student would do, yet you keep on with the question that bothers on infantile.

The Bible verses listed earlier on this Bible chronology - are they missing on your Bible?

It's actually better to be quiet when one has run of things to say, you know.

thank you rabzy for honestly and simply say russel used this BIBLE as well as so and so lexicon to come to the conclusion that jesus has appeared invisibly in 1914.

Additionally I remind you of the many translations of the Bible now extant–all of them very good. I have all of these and find them useful in comparison in the study of any text–one sometimes giving a thought which another may not.The other day, for curiosity’s sake, I counted Bibles in different translations, etc., in my study and found that I have thirty-two.

rabzy,

This is taken from the Watch Tower, September 15, 1914, pages 286, 287.

Please could you scan it so we could read it verbatim. Thank you

JMAN05:

Instead of you to admit that you lied against him, you shift to another lie. this guy has been eaten up by hatred to the extent that he now repeats what has been answered. Even the chronology has been given, yet the eye is still blocked with hatred. He cant see anything. the date we agree upon has also been given, even WHY 1914(unless you have another meaning to "why" has been given. the bible used is the Bible. I wonder what this guy is searching for.

ok answer this, before he went on to say generally accepted, in his first paragraph, he stated that jw accept 607BC, as when jerusalem was destroyed by the babylonians, as against the secular view of 587BC. True or false?

roGunn:
True, Secular history has it that the babylonians destroyed Jerusalem in 587 BCas against 607 BC as taught by JW. Now, secular history is known to be wrong. And when you consider the basis for the 587 BC date, you'll realise that it's almost certainly wrong.
The Bible points to 607BC as the date Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem.

JMAN05: @hisblud

Am so sorry for calling you names, I never meant to. its just imperfection. hope you accept the apology. But I wont continue this discussion with you. if in our subsequent discussion, I sense the sincerity of your inquiry, I will resume replying you.

I love you. Peace!!!

But i had told you that nothing good seems to be coming out from @Hisblu.

Well, you do it not because of him but for other readers he wants to deceive.

truthislight:

But i had told you that nothing good seems to be coming out from @Hisblu.

Well, you do it not because of him but for other readers he wants to deceive.

You are right. But I want to adopt a new approach. Wasting my time on someone do not need the truth is counterproductive. Anyone reading this thread will also know that his question as to 1914 has been answered in a clear way. other things he is saying there doesnt concern this thread.

I am not adopting this method for him alone, but for others who dont need truth but like lies. My time will be better spent on honesthearted ones.

@hisblud


i was busy throughout last week and was not even aware of the new thread, then lets go

I ask you a question, on page of the other thread, you did not answer your reply came with a question that im going to answer, though im not a jw! but you have forced 'warning' on jonah's message to the people, and it seems that your failure or refusal to prove the alledged warning 'in jonah's message to the ninevites' by quoting a verse shows that you have no knowledge of the fuffilment of God's prophecies,

this is the question again, let me pick it one after another;

did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

this is jonah's message;

jonah 3:4

4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

a fixed time of 'forty days' was announced, and so nowhere in jonah's message to the ninevites contain warning whatsoever, but a certain doom! hanged on the city

and to further prove that it was God himself who relent on what he had earlier determined to do


read Jonah 3:10
New King James Version

10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it

note the bold, 'He did not do it' this shows that it was not a warning but a determined doom on a fixed date like a time bomb has just been averted

you can see why in jonah 4:1-5

jonah said he prefer to die, because of the shame, he would not have tried to run away in the first place to tarshish had it been that it was only a mere warning.

so, this case provides answer to your own question below;

hisblud: thanks, good that you aint a jw, let me ask you a simple question. Say you were in 1894 and a prediction came that in 1914, troubles will end becos Yahshua will return. Now some people repented and some did not, will the repentance of people cause God Who knows the day and hour to delay/postpone the return of Yahshua becos some of them repented?

if the repentance of the ninevites could cause God to relent of bringing calamities after 40 days to the city, why not to those who are repenting of their sin now, which is the reason of jesus coming to die in the first place john 3:16....God brought his only beggotten son ....whosoever believeth in him shall not perish...

the delay that may come from any Gods prophecies is an advantage for sinners to change their ways and repent

now that i have answer you,

can you answer my question by quoting a verse that;

did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

truthislight:

But i had told you that nothing good seems to be coming out from @Hisblu.

Well, you do it not because of him but for other readers he wants to deceive.

haha is it not an open forum for people to express thier opinion and anyone including your fellow believers in that jesus is archangel to read and analyse....

JMAN05:

You are right. But I want to adopt a new approach. Wasting my time on someone do not need the truth is counterproductive. Anyone reading this thread will also know that his question as to 1914 has been answered in a clear way. other things he is saying there doesnt concern this thread.

I am not adopting this method for him alone, but for others who dont need truth but like lies. My time will be better spent on honesthearted ones.

Ok oh you are free to opt out... but you know what... this will not stop me from raising my doubts about all things 1914, my questions might sound too trivial to you but surely if you read it, it will definitely make you question what you believe especially the arch angel obstacle....

How do you see this situation when God pronounce doom mentioning 40 days(flip), he relents(flop), again God said "nineveh will be laid waste"(flip) we are talking about ...ever knowing God.. who knows the future and should have destroyed the city once and for all. why does he delay and change pronouncement?

Flip-flop-flip




FLIP.... forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!

Jonah 3:3-4
3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey[a] in extent. 4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”


FLOP......God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it

Jonah 3:10
10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it

FLIP...‘Nineveh is laid waste!

Nahum 3:1-7

5 “Behold, I am against you,” says the Lord of hosts;
“I will lift your skirts over your face,
I will show the nations your unclothedness,
And the kingdoms your shame.
6 I will cast abominable filth upon you,
Make you vile,
And make you a spectacle.
7 It shall come to pass that all who look upon you
Will flee from you, and say,
‘Nineveh is laid waste!
Who will bemoan her?’
Where shall I seek comforters for you?”


any answer?

BERNIMOORE: @hisblud


i was busy throughout last week and was not even aware of the new thread, then lets go

I ask you a question, on page of the other thread, you did not answer your reply came with a question that im going to answer, though im not a jw! but you have forced 'warning' on jonah's message to the people, and it seems that your failure or refusal to prove the alledged warning 'in jonah's message to the ninevites' by quoting a verse shows that you have no knowledge of the fuffilment of God's prophecies,

this is the question again, let me pick it one after another;

did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

this is jonah's message;

jonah 3:4

4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

a fixed time of 'forty days' was announced, and so nowhere in jonah's message to the ninevites contain warning whatsoever, but a certain doom! hanged on the city

and to further prove that it was God himself who relent on what he had earlier determined to do


read Jonah 3:10
New King James Version

10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it

note the bold, 'He did not do it' this shows that it was not a warning but a determined doom on a fixed date like a time bomb has just been averted

you can see why in jonah 4:1-5

jonah said he prefer to die, because of the shame, he would not have tried to run away in the first place to tarshish had it been that it was only a mere warning.

so, this case provides answer to your own question below;




if the repentance of the ninevites could cause God to relent of bringing calamities after 40 days to the city, why not to those who are repenting of their sin now, which is the reason of jesus coming to die in the first place john 3:16....God brought his only beggotten son ....whosoever believeth in him shall not perish...

the delay that may come from any Gods prophecies is an advantage for sinners to change their ways and repent

now that i have answer you,

can you answer my question by quoting a verse that;

did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

hello berny, thanks for posting it here and welcome. it seems my dear jman05 is too stumped to answer queries about what he believes and he might opt out. unfortunately, u r not jw but sha we will continue. since you were not able to answer my question directly... let me post your answer to your question...

Thanks so much Jman05. I appreciate your action. The path of the righteous ones and our understanding of the scriptures keeps getting brighter and brighter until the day is firmly established i.e until all knowledge has been revealed and fully understood as far as it is humanly possible because there would always be something to learn about Jehovah.

What some people dont know is that we love to know more about God and do his will....we strive to advance our knowledge of his will further and we will continue to do.

JMAN05:

do you even believe that He has a son. call him your "almighty God". calling him a son is a denigration.

See you calling YHWH, when you serve a false god. Did you faithfully live that name in your bible? no, you rather removed it. now you are calling it to pretend as angel of light. we know you.

Hehe ... hehee... "Jehovah" is not YHWH ... that is another topic for another day....

some important letters for the checking ... http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/zwt0244.htm

@hisblud

im not a jw! but you have forced 'warning' on jonah's issue,

You people are mixing prediction and warning up.

Warning have an element of repentance attached to it while a prediction must occur whether their is repentance or not.

a,where is Gods message of warning to jonah in the bible that suggest warning? quote the verse here please, dont fail to do that!

b,did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

c, did nineveh return to the same bad ways after God decides to change his mind? and was the prophecy of destruction fufilled on ninevites later on? answer

im waiting for your reply

im waiting for your reply

here you go...

where is Gods message of warning to jonah in the bible that suggest warning? quote the verse here please, dont fail to do that!

b,did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

Are u interested in the EXPLICIT word "WARNING" appearing or you are just trying to play with words. According to encarta dictionary, warning is sign of something bad coming: a threat or a sign that something bad is going to happen. So are you saying that this is not warning IMPLICITLY even if its literarily and EXPLICITLY not stated as "WARNING". another thing must a "word" be used EXPLICITLY before the central idea is derived from the message?

Jonah 3:4

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
KJV

The fact is that their repentance was God’s desired result, He gave them 40 days.We already know God’s heart in these matters, through the prophet Jeremiah 18:7-10:

“At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; If that nation, against whom I have pronounced,turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.”

This principle is based on God’s character of mercy to the repentant. Judgment was sure to come unless Nineveh repented. God gave them a chance to repent by sending Jonah with a message of judgment a second time. It was God’s plan for Nineveh.

c, did nineveh return to the same bad ways after God decides to change his mind? and was the prophecy of destruction fufilled on ninevites later on? answer

its the prophecy of Nahum, of ninevah's destruction after they people returned to evil ways, 100 years AFTER the incidence of the the warning of Jonah. Ninevah was actually destroyed in 612BC. 100years is not 40days.

The prophet Nahum predicted the destruction of Nineveh in the book that bears his name. The following items were to be a part of the destruction of that great city:

1.An "overflowing flood" would "make an utter end of its place" ( Nah. 1:

2.Nineveh would be destroyed while her inhabitants were "drunken like drunkards" ( Nah. 1:10)

3.Nineveh would be unprotected because "fire shall devour the bars of your gates" ( Nah. 3:13)

4.Nineveh would never recover, for their "injury has no healing" ( Nah. 3:19)

5.The downfall of Nineveh would come with remarkable ease, like figs falling when the tree is shaken ( Nah. 3:12)

Question: "When and how was Nineveh destroyed?"
Answer:Nineveh, the capital of Assyria, was destroyed in 612 B.C. by the Medes. This was in fulfillment of the prophet Nahum’s prediction that God would completely destroy the city (Nahum 1). A number of factors combine to determine both the date and manner of Nineveh’s destruction.
During the prophet Jonah’s day, Nineveh was spared by God’s compassion in response to their repentance (Jonah 3). This happened in 760 B.C.
The book of Nahum was written after the destruction of the Egyptian city of Thebes ( Nahum 3:. That event took place in 663 B.C. when it was conquered by the Assyrian king Ashurbanipal.

www.gotquestions.org/Nineveh-destroyed.html

Point of correction, this prophecy of destruction was not carried out during the time of those people that repented after they heard the warning of Jonah. Why because it was stated in "40 DAYS" exaclty niniviah would be overthrown. Furthermore, it was stated that Jonah waited for 40days to see the destruction but becos they heeded the warning, after the literary 40days, nothing happened.

read this for your education on WARNING

Ezek 3:18-19

18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
KJV

- what did God say of the wicked?
- what is it refered to?
- Is it similar to jonah and ninevah?


Another question for you berny, all ninevah repented, did the WHOLE WORLD repent in 1914 to cause God to postpone the coming of Christ?

hisblud:

hello berny, thanks for posting it here and welcome. it seems my dear jman05 is too stumped to answer queries about what he believes and he might opt out. unfortunately, u r not jw but sha we will continue. since you were not able to answer my question directly... let me post your answer to your question...

Please permit me to contribute to this discussion.
Jehovah is the supreme being and no one can ultimately change his plans or make his purpose go unfulfilled, he will still achieve what he wants to achieve. But some people whom God had intended to use for some purpose had failed and so sometimes he adjusts his plans to accommodate such but still ultimately achieve his purpose.

His purpose with respects to the Ninevites was to destroy them because they were wicked, but the moment they repented, the purpose was no longer needed. God is not rigid and unreasonable, the reason why he wanted to destroy them was no longer there, so there was no justification for the destruction any longer.

Another example is that of King Hezekiah, Isaiah in no uncertain terms told him that God said he was going to die....In those days Hezekiah became mortally ill. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him and said to him, "Thus says the LORD, 'Set your house in order, for you shall die and not live.'" 2kings 20:1

But when Hezekiah begged and prayed, God changed his decision and extended his life by 15 more years.

Another example is that of Josiah, God told Hezekiah that he was going to bring calamity on Judah during the reigns of his sons but Hezekiah, Hezekiah said no problem, it is good, so far the calamity did not occur in his own days. The calamity did not occur in the days of Manasseh although he was taken into captivity and later repented.

But in the days of Josiah, a grandson of Manasseh and a good King of Israel..what did the Bible say.. 2 kings 22:19,20

19because your heart was tender and you humbled yourself before the LORD when you heard what I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants that they should become a desolation and a curse, and you have torn your clothes and wept before Me, I truly have heard you," declares the LORD. 20"Therefore, behold, I will gather you to your fathers, and you will be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes will not see all the evil which I will bring on this place."'" So they brought back word to the king.

New Living Translation
So I will not send the promised disaster until after you have died and been buried in peace. You will not see the disaster I am going to bring on this city.'" So they took her message back to the king.

Obviously from those verses, calamity has been decreed upon Jerusalem in the days of Josiah but his humility and piety made God push the calamity forward or possibly am not being dogmatic about this at all am just saying possibly God allowed Josiah to die early (killed by Pharoah necho at the young age of 39) so that the calamity can still occur as scheduled, eventually the calamity occurred in the days of his sons.

There is also the example of Abraham and the city of Gomorrah, Even though calamity and destruction had already been decreed upon Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham asked if God would spare the city if the cities had at least 10 righteous people. God said he would spare the city unfortunately the cities did not have up to 10 people.

Jesus even said that because of the chosen ones 'the days would be cut short'...So Jehovah can adjust his plans to eventually achieve his ultimate goal. We know everything he does would always be in line with his righteous principles and to our best interests, that's the confidence we have.

rabzy... u welcome... now reading through what you wrote.. was the WORD "WARNING/PREDICTION" explicitly stated as berny would have us believe that only when the word "WARNING/PREDICTION" was explicitly stated then we will accept.

This what i said...

Warning have an element of repentance attached to it while a prediction must occur whether there is repentance or not.

furthermore, i quoted this...

PREDICTION:

If it was a prediction, the plain statement of fact about the future was absolute andwas falsified by the event.

WARNING:

If it was a warning, it carried an unexpress condition clause, “unless you repent.”

from the above, let me see how warning or prediction occurs in your post...

rabzy:

Please permit me to contribute to this discussion.
Jehovah is the supreme being and no one can ultimately change his plans or make his purpose go unfulfilled, he will still achieve what he wants to achieve. But some people whom God had intended to use for some purpose had failed and so sometimes he adjusts his plans to accommodate such but still ultimately achieve his purpose.

mmh.. ok lemme sort of a accept this....

His purpose with respects to the Ninevites was to destroy them because they were wicked, but the moment they repented, the purpose was no longer needed. God is not rigid and unreasonable, the reason why he wanted to destroy them was no longer there, so there was no justification for the destruction any longer.

WARNING can be applied

Another example is that of King Hezekiah, Isaiah in no uncertain terms told him that God said he was going to die....In those days Hezekiah became mortally ill. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him and said to him, "Thus says the LORD, 'Set your house in order, for you shall die and not live.'" 2kings 20:1

But when Hezekiah begged and prayed, God changed his decision and extended his life by 15 more years.

WARNING can be applied

Another example is that of Josiah, God told Hezekiah that he was going to bring calamity on Judah during the reigns of his sons but Hezekiah, Hezekiah said no problem, it is good, so far the calamity did not occur in his own days. The calamity did not occur in the days of Manasseh although he was taken into captivity and later repented.

PREDICTION can be applied

But in the days of Josiah, a grandson of Manasseh and a good King of Israel..what did the Bible say.. 2 kings 22:19,20

19because your heart was tender and you humbled yourself before the LORD when you heard what I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants that they should become a desolation and a curse, and you have torn your clothes and wept before Me, I truly have heard you," declares the LORD. 20"Therefore, behold, I will gather you to your fathers, and you will be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes will not see all the evil which I will bring on this place."'" So they brought back word to the king.

New Living Translation
So I will not send the promised disaster until after you have died and been buried in peace. You will not see the disaster I am going to bring on this city.'" So they took her message back to the king.

Obviously from those verses, calamity has been decreed upon Jerusalem in the days of Josiah but his humility and piety made God push the calamity forward or possibly am not being dogmatic about this at all am just saying possibly God allowed Josiah to die early (killed by Pharoah necho at the young age of 39) so that the calamity can still occur as scheduled, eventually the calamity occurred in the days of his sons.

PREDICTION can be applied

There is also the example of Abraham and the city of Gomorrah, Even though calamity and destruction had already been decreed upon Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham asked if God would spare the city if the cities had at least 10 righteous people. God said he would spare the city unfortunately the cities did not have up to 10 people.

WARNING [If it had upto 10 peeps which it had not so the calamity fell]

Jesus even said that because of the chosen ones 'the days would be cut short'...So Jehovah can adjust his plans to eventually achieve his ultimate goal. We know everything he does would always be in line with his righteous principles and to our best interests, that's the confidence we have.

now cutting short does not mean that there was REPENTANCE of any sort but because of His own choice not because someone's choice to repent....

hisblud]

Are u interested in the EXPLICIT word "WARNING" appearing or you are just trying to play with words.According to encarta dictionary, warning is sign of something bad coming: a threat or a sign that something bad is going to happen. So are you saying that this is not warning IMPLICITLY even if its literarily and EXPLICITLY not stated as "WARNING". another thing must a "word" be used EXPLICITLY before the central idea is derived from the message?

you are yet to give evidence of warning citing the verse where jonah's message contain anythig that suggest warning, yes encarta dictionary talk about something about something bad going to happen,

but what we have here in jonah 3:4 is a fixed day of forty days a doom shall occur on the city, it has already been decided, and jonah did not add any alternative words in his message to the city that suggest warning, and that is what im waiting for....

ok, let me put it this way, show the verse where jonah added alternative things that the people should do in his message to avert the doom


lets say explicit word "warning" was not mentioned,you know that, and yet you force warning on his message before you establish what suggests warning, Im interested in the verse that suggest jonah's warning expecially ..in his message that he delivered...to the nineveh, i dont play with words, i need facts.

jonah 3:4 is in black and white...40 days mentioned destroyed the suggestion of warning... because the phrase in fourty days nineveh shall be destroyed, does not carry warning words like ..only if, ....provided that,....but if, etc. that could suggest warning, and jonah 3:10..God relented from what he had earlier scheme to happen

...in 40 days, note that he wasnt talking about ...repenting within 40 days, other bible translations says ...40 days more...which shows that days pass by and is clicking considering the fact that you ask me a question like this (bolded):

its the prophecy of Nahum, of ninevah's destruction after they people returned to evil ways, 100 years AFTER the incidence of the the warning of Jonah. Ninevah was actually destroyed in 612BC. 100years is not 40days.

Good,(1)prophecy of God to jonah,nineveh shall be destroyed in 40days flip.... (2)God relent without telling jonah to add alternative warning to his message what they should do but God relent on his own ..flop.. again (3)prophecy of the same God to Nahum flip... and to the same people ninevah with the history of doom that was averted! and prophet jonah was made to look like a false prophet then that he prefer to die in humiliation jonah 4:1-5

question, why did God delayed the destruction of nineveh till later time, not in Nahum's lifetime, using these prophets the way he chose? i need answer please

Point of correction, this prophecy of destruction was not carried out during the time of those people that repented after they heard the warning of Jonah. Why because it was stated in "40 DAYS" exaclty niniviah would be overthrown

the same bad lineages and generations of people in a city called nineveh, you cant separate that, the same God giving message of doom more than once on a city, using different prophets, and the prophets are to bear the brunt of eventual change or further delay of Gods mind

Furthermore, it was stated that Jonah waited for 40days to see the destruction but becos they heeded the warning, after the literary 40days, nothing happened.

the question is, did jonah added an alternative route that the city can follow to gain Gods favour? show me in his message, if no then that explain jonah's fear on why he had to wait in anoyance, God did not tell jonah to tell the city that they should repent, ok?

Another question for you berny, all ninevah repented,

what do you mean by repent? so when someone put on a sackcloth he had repented? well those that truly repented were few, and those who are pretending by putting on sackcloth were noticed, God reasoned later that they are liars and pretenders

let me show you

Nahum 3:1


King James Bible
Woe to the bloody city! it is all full of lies and robbery; the prey departeth not;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Woe to the city of blood, totally deceitful, full of plunder, never without prey

did the WHOLE WORLD repent in 1914 to cause God to postpone the coming of Christ?

The whole world does not need to repent! read genesis 18, God can change his mind as often as possible if new repentant ones emerge!

putting on sackcloth does not mean true repentance that comes from the heart.

those who from 1914 till date have repented of their sin are noticed by God himself, can you deny that? do you think it was only jehovahs witnesses that read that marked 1914 as a significant year?, among others are the Assemblies of God church, you need to know that now that most of us are not troubled as we are sitting in convieniece and discussing, it wasnt like that during the heat of the first world war that shook the whole earth in 1914-1918

read and search these, so that you dont single out a particular denomination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Christian_religious_predictions#Assemblies_of_God_Church

[color=#006600]During World War I, 1914–1918 The Weekly Evangel, an official publication of the Assemblies of God, carried this prediction:

"We are not yet in the Armageddon struggle proper, but at its commencement, and it may be, if [size=14pt]students of prophecy[/size] read the signs aright, that Christ will come before the present war closes, and before Armageddon...The war preliminary to Armageddon, it seems, has commenced.

After the prophecy of first wwar failed 1914-1918, then, Assemblies of God see more prophecies in 1934 1935 2nd w/war.,

The Assemblies of God [i]students of prophecies, are they true or false prophets? if yes, on what ground do you judge them as false

Jws we need your attention on this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/1533426/jehovahs-witnesses-say-arc-angel-micheal#19826994

Shalom!