@Babyosisi; I saw the site you recommended on stoning. However, the way it was carried out, it has no presidence in Islam. No wrapping of the body and it was not necessary that hole is dug and therefore there is restriction to escape or even recount the confession and then spared of death. You see, the process of punishment is not as simple as the website stated it. The a witness to an illegal sexual intercourse can not accuse the parties who performed the deed. Even if you see the act of the organs intimacy, yet you have to be careful.

When a person is accused, the accuser will have to swear 3  times to what he/she was witnessing to. Then the accuser will swear that if he/she had lied, that the curse of Allah is upon him/her. If the accused does the rebuttal as to swearing 3 times that he/she did not engage in illegal sexual act, on the fourth swearing he/she invokes the curse of Allah on his/her own head.

You need to read about these subject matters and no that the rule governing it is very strict and allows a way out. I remember that i read a piece in one of the nigerian owned community prints in New York few years ago when the amina case was going on in Nigeria. The writer was a Dr. Adegbita or so. He was also a member of Muslim scholars from overseas who toured the USA with the first year after 911. In his piece he quoted an adith where in the case of Amina, it was possible to temper justice with mercy.

You will read in many adith where it was very difficult for the prophet to allow many apeople to confess adulterous act. The case of the woman in medina who confessed almost immediately the act took place was a good example. The case of the man who also tried to confess immediately as well was another. The prophet gave them all kind of excuses that just maybe they thought, but really they did not engage in any illegal intercourse.

The woman delivered her baby, nursed her and whined her and the baby was independent from her, yet she continued to ask for the punishment and finally she was stoned to death. As for the man, when all excuses for his freedom were exhursted by the prophet, he finally told the community to stone him. As the man was being stones and the pain of stoning is too much on him, he began to run away and the community began to chase after him. He then began to declare his innocence. however, the people continued to pursue him and he finally died. When the community came to tell the propphet about his recounting of the sin that he had freely confessed to, the prophet was so sad and told the people that they should have left him and stopped the stoning the moment he began to deny this grave offense that his condition was withAllah. maybe he was already forgiven at the time of his crying out because of the pain or at any time in the process of the punishment.

By the way why is a person who is married engaging in illegal sexual act for.

Your definationof Nikah halala is not correct. You can only divorce your wife once regardless of how many times you say you devorce her. You have to marry her again and divorce her and marry her again and devorce her (this is the third divorce, you can not divorce a person and marry her 3 times in one day, not to even consider the one occasion that your information source used). To devorce a woman three times is not in a single occasion, but really theree different occasions. You can appreciate that if two people can not stand each other that much that they have to divorce and marry 3 times, I believe that they need not marry each other any longer until they marry somebody else and devorce from that new marriages and then realize and make that effort to come back for the forth time. This is the rule of relationship between man and woman regarding devorce.

If you look in our earlier discussions,we delved into Mohammed and his lifestyle,so please let's not use him as an example,he was not a good man.
So now he killed someone he had forgiven just because she insisted on being killed? how callous!!

You have a problem with the outfit prior to stoning and not in the stoning itself.
God have mercy.
By the way the source of that article is a Muslim maybe a liberal minded one who sees the ills in his?her religion.

Anyway read this fine testimony.http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/Testimony/Akbar.html

Kidnapped Sudan editor beheaded

The beheaded body of a Sudanese newspaper editor has been found on the outskirts of the capital, Khartoum.

Mohammed Taha ran the al-Wifaq paper and was taken from his home on Tuesday night by an unknown group of armed men.

Last year, he was put on trial for blasphemy after his pro-government paper reprinted an article questioning the parentage of the prophet Muhammad.

The charges were later dropped but if convicted of blasphemy under Sharia law, he could have been put to death.

The BBC's Jonah Fisher in Khartoum says no-one has claimed responsibility but suspicion will immediately turn to Sudan's hardline Islamic groups.

In May last year, thousands of people demonstrated outside a courtroom in central Khartoum calling for Mr Taha to be put to death.

After several emotionally charged days the case was adjourned and later quietly dropped.

Our correspondent says that as an ally of Khartoum's Islamist government, Mr Taha's murder will raise fears that extremist groups are once again active in Sudan.

Sudan provided a home for al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in the 1990s and the country is still on the United States' list of states sponsoring terrorism.

Khartoum has been governed by strict Islamic Sharia law since 1983 - but our correspondent says that in recent years courts have shown a degree of flexibility in their interpretations of Islamic law.  Source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5321368.stm

Murderers in the name of mohammed,

in the name of allah
they'll return and tell us these people did not represent Islam the tolerant religion of peace and civil rights.

Why did the Govt not arrest those who chanted for him to be killed

@Babyosisi;
About my having problem with the wrapping is not the issue. I do know that stoning is permissable , they are there in the laws given to Moses, Jesus as well. (AS). You see i am not ashamed of Islam, but i could be ashamed of the character of the Muslims, me included. For me, i know how rough I could be if there are no laws guiding me and hence i control my behavious. Just as terribly the Nigerians are projecting sharia, I am not surprised that you will have this type of NEW ISLAM, even among the so called Muslim country. There are no Muslim countries. No one is practising sharia. What is unique about Islam is that we are willing to remind each other to go back to Qur'an and Sunnah to seek correct practise. We still have within our community, freely available to wealthy and poor, equally , the Qur'an and Sunnah. I know you are hurting and may God mend your heart. You have a friend in me, just in case.


At least you are honest enough that the shia is the group that practises it.
Further, the story you just told is not sanction by the law of Allah and the practise of the Messenger (AS). The unfortunate thing is that you do not consider what Iddah means; it is a 90 day term , what you in medicine call the period of the first trimester. for if a man and his woman get divorced, the waiting period is at least 3 months to see if she is pregnant from from their most recent sexual relation. After 3 months, she is free to marry any new suitor, except and only if her ex-husband wants her back and she agrees to the request.  This window is open for the newly divorced up to 3 month, the total length of the iddah.

However, if they were divorced from the third marriage, the husband and her cannnot come back together unless the wife, who is the one that is sexually limited anyway, will have to marry a new husband. This marriage is not by the above arrangement as your piece have indicated. That will actually be against Islamic law. The marriage to this new man will have to be of free will, man and woman are interested and agree to marry. If they marry, and for some reason they divorce and after the iddah, the old husband if still interested and the wife is still interested can marry each other, again and it will be permissable. InshaAllah. The scenerio that you lay out in your piece amounts to ignorance and who ever practise that is performing an evil deed, indeed.

Finally, there is no arrange or lets live together stuff in Islam. there are people who do it, but there is no justification in Islam for it. When you see it in Qur'an and/or adith let me know. This is a good assignment for you. You need it. With this zeal and enthusiazm that you have, you will be a good asset for Islam. There are people like you in that religion and their life become a shining light.

I have enjoyed doing this with you. In all, from my heart, I pray that God guide you and all to the path of rightousness.

Sonu Momo, momo sonu. That was the joke in the west in the 70s after Murtala Muhammad was killed by Dimkas coup. The Yorubas stated that when Obasanjo got to Murtala's mother, he combined yoruba and hausa together to greet the bereafed mother. But of course, he speaks hausa very well. Do you as well as Yoruba. I already know you speak Igbo. But do you speak the other less known Nigerian languages. To me a person who does is really a true nigerian treasure.

nice try olabowale.
I laughed uncontrollably when you said you see visions of me in a hijab saying yes to Allah.
My colleagues must have thought I had won a lottery.

So now I agree Shites practice this temp marriage thing,so I assume you are sunni.
Why do your fellow Sunnis slaughter Shites and vice versa.
What is the struggle between the two?

My other question,the terrorists who seek to blow us up are they usually found amongst the the shites or sunnis or are they pretty much united when it comes to dealing with the zionists and infidels.

@Olabowale;
I am a Muslim. So was my father, his father and so on in that family. All of them, in that part of the soth, in Nigeria. My sister, there was no one forced to become Muslims in ijebu ode. So in my mother's family. there are christians and muslims. Fortunately, in my mother's old age, she accepted islam. I am working on you and I am a very determined fellow. Nothing impossible for God to do. I will pray to God to guide His light into your heart, the hearts of your colleagues and those who are sincerely hoping to receive the mercy of their Lord in the day of Judgement.

My sister, what crime against a society, indeed an individual that you will consider serious enough that will meter some harsh punishment and I will show you another individual who may disagree with your metered punishment. Who are we to have an opinion about the commandment of God and His messenger (AS). all we have to do is hear and obey. In the days of old, up to jesus time (AS), believers used to fast, the fasting that will be considered very harsh in todays standard. Even the christians are still fasting this way which is not permissable for the Muslims to do.

I believe that if you are married and you find your husband cheating, what will you like to do to him. Remember that hell has no fury like a woman scorned. My sister, you should be sincere. The crime of adultery and its consequences are dire and no human being should stand for it. No one who engaged in adultery for the first time is ever caught. It is the repeated offenders that became very complasant that it is now second nature, this adultery they do not see as a crime and spead the evil all over the community. The symptoms of it could be devastating to the family because, AIDS could be brought in and some body is infected. You know the story, its very common in Africa.

I lived in las vegas and dealt with and still do business with Shia people and non muslim. Your questions about my opinion on suicide bombing, shia/sunni killing, zionist killing and others is the same answer; I do not engage in anything about killing people. Islam does not sanction it. Muslims is not supposed to fight in fragmentation and there are rules of war. I do not see that in all the efforts of the struggles that the muslims are engaged in all over the world. You need to know the ruling which is very clear to all.

After the civil war in Nigeria, the was a sudden wave of armed robbery, etc. It become acceptable that a thief was put afire or stoned. I never participated and even would stand by to watch such a spectikle. This does not mean that if i were to defend my family and loved ones and all the people that God my put under me to protect, even just that i happened to just walk by when there is an attack on this innocent person, then I will have to act on impulse to protect this person, my family or loved ones. You see i am a patient man, but i am not weak. i stand for justice, all of it through the prizm of Islam. The law of God.

This is why i speak up this way about the condition of Nigerian Ethnic or religious rifes. I do talk about this with friends in New York whenever I hear it happening; I never stop telling my brothers in Islam the evil of intolerance and my country men about patience and good citizenry.

So, I ask you what do you say about the evil that the christians, nations and communities are transporting all around the world. We all need peace and human to human cooperation. this earth is God's and we are the custodians. we need to keep it safe and secure it for future generations. We need to do good by ourselves and by others.

I will continue to pray for you. By the way clear your mind of all hatred.

interesting this debate, if one can dignify it such, is still raging on. clearly this thing is not to be resolved, particularly as the christian antagonists we have here are flinging preconceived judgments rather than sincere questions. babyosisi, davidylan and pearl2 are NOT asking sensible questions as enugu is doing; rather, they are mocking and insulting us muslims and strangely some people insist on taking them on. i say we leave off until they pose their questions more respectfully (if they dare) and then we can attempt to clear the air.

elsewhere babyosisi said that the IRA have a cause, a goal, and are not bent on killing off the world. ok, presumably their cause, their goal is independence from the brits, right? they are fighting for the sake of liberation and nationalism, and so they can employ the usual tools of the terroristic trade and blow off pubs and innocent pedestrians just to attain that end. ok, so how does that square differently from what the palestinians are doing? or is fighting for emancipation inapplicable to the muslims?
also, you make it sound acceptable the IRA blowing off the brits so long as they didnt threaten the whole world-is british life measurably less in your scales of morality? or are u just in such a blooming haste to spread ur hate u muck up ur own logic?

look, those shouting tha the north is a killing field blah blah yada-yada either are gettin their news from their kins OUTSIDE nigeria, or else they have huge, thick black hoods over their heads: there are great masses of christian communities cluttering the north and they are really doing quite well.

interestingly the secretary of CAN northern region (Elder Saidu Dogo) babyosisi quoted earlier is a close family friend of ours, and i seriously doubt he'd say stuff like that.

Neoteny:

interesting this debate, if one can dignify it such, is still raging on. clearly this thing is not to be resolved, particularly as the christian antagonists we have here are flinging preconceived judgments rather than sincere questions. babyosisi, davidylan and pearl2 are NOT asking sensible questions as enugu is doing; rather, they are mocking and insulting us muslims and strangely some people insist on taking them on. i say we leave off until they pose their questions more respectfully (if they dare) and then we can attempt to clear the air.

elsewhere babyosisi said that the IRA have a cause, a goal, and are not bent on killing off the world. ok, presumably their cause, their goal is independence from the brits, right? they are fighting for the sake of liberation and nationalism, and so they can employ the usual tools of the terroristic trade and blow off pubs and innocent pedestrians just to attain that end. ok, so how does that square differently from what the palestinians are doing? or is fighting for emancipation inapplicable to the muslims?
also, you make it sound acceptable the IRA blowing off the brits so long as they didnt threaten the whole world-is british life measurably less in your scales of morality? or are u just in such a blooming haste to spread your hate u muck up your own logic?

look, those shouting tha the north is a killing field blah blah yada-yada either are gettin their news from their kins OUTSIDE nigeria, or else they have huge, thick black hoods over their heads: there are great masses of christian communities cluttering the north and they are really doing quite well.

interestingly the secretary of CAN northern region (Elder Saidu Dogo) babyosisi quoted earlier is a close family friend of ours, and i seriously doubt he'd say stuff like that.

Ignorance deserves no response.
You can stick your head in a sand all you want that will not change a thang.
You may need to learn some simple lessons from olabowale.
If any Muslims like you keep minimizing the slaughter of Christians in Nothern Nigeria,how do you expect things to change.


Is the death of one person in the name of whatever not one too many?
They are blown out of proportion you say how about Indonesia,philipines,Sudan,and the middle East.
If you have nothing sensible to say,better zip it up.
The thick black hoods you mentioned belong to your 4 wives or co mothers behind a high wall.

@ olabowole,I hear Al queda is Sunni just like you.
What made them terrorists reading the same Koran,do you even agree they are terrorists?

Just thought i'd drop this as 'a gift' to you all,
The message in the video speaks for itself,

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6545313046180631815

brownsuga what is your point exactly,an R rated movie is proof that America bombed itself?
The terrorist supporters already said that so what's new?

@Wholex,

Are Muslims Bad? No.

Misdirected? Yes.

Yes Muslims are very bad horrible people and God will punish them in hell where the belong.

Ouch!

Hmm, @Evilslayer, Just make sure u dont end up in hell too, cos I assure u theve taken note. The'll sure torment u if u eva end up there.

There are good and bad Muslims by human interp.
Islam however is evil.
Christ is the way,the truth and the life.
Without him all men are damned to hellfire.

The religion of 'peace' at work in Naija.

September 24, 2005
Nigeria: Muslims horse-whip Christian female students for dressing improperly
Sharia alert from Nigeria: "Muslim Fundamentalists Attack Xtian Female Students in FUT," from the Daily Champion of Lagos via AllAfrica.com, with thanks to Silvester:

Academic activities were yesterday disrupted at the Federal University of Technology (FUT) Minna, Niger State as suspected Muslim fundamentalists attacked female Christian students whom they accused of improper dressing.
The fracas which took place at Bosso campus of the university about 9 a.m., saw the armed fundamentalist invading the lecture-theatres and beating up female students they claimed were not properly dressed.

An eye witness informed Daily Champion that the fundamentalist numbering about six, dressed in black clothes with red bandage on their heads, disrupted lectures by beating unsuspecting female students with horse-whips for alleged improper dressing.

It was further learnt that the male students on seeing the unprovoked attack on their female colleagues moved to intervene an action that prompted the fundamentalists to use knives to inflict deep cuts on them.

With this development, the university community broke into a free-for-all fight as Muslim students gathered themselves on one side, while the Christians equally mobilized themselves and this led to throwing of missiles at each other by the parties to the conflict.


Posted by Robert at September 24, 2005 09:23 AM | Print this entry

Comments

A word should be enough for the wise.http://www.islamreview.com/testimonials/whyileftislam.shtml

@babyosisi, i just would like to know why you hate Muslims and the Muslim religion so much?
is it a personal thing? please dont abuse me. I dont hate you.

I do not hate Muslims,I have never hated muslims,I hate no one.
I maintain that Islam is an evil religion that has led many astray.
The terrorists are only following in the footsteps of Mohammed and I have been able to prove it from Mohammeds own words.

All the quotations I have given have been from the Koran and hadiths and not my own words.
I am just an ordinary peace loving woman that sought out the reason why Muslims are so violent and militant and found out the Koran and its teachings enjoins them to do so.

If the world were being terrorized by Sikhs and Hindus,I would have tried to find out if the religion teaches that.
Islamists are a world problem and I feel every living person must want to know if the religion teaches violence and it sure does.

I hope I have answered you.

this thread should end now .

we have strayed so much

Babyosisi
You are a very great woman I like your courage to stand all these
and all others you know that all terrorist activities are related to Islam shooting of tourist in Jordan, Killing Xtians in the north I have had first hand experience from Kano and Jos in 2003 and they are quite gory, July 7 in London, Train bombing in Spain,not to talk of 9-11 all these are done by Moslems in the name of Allah or Moh'D

Moreover the Koran supports illtreating infidels, Killing them Moh'D actually waged wars while Jesus said love and pray for your enemies
You see the difference between the men at the origin of these two religion

belloti well said.

this topic should have been over since.

the question is are Muslims bad?
the answer is No.
Generally some humans are bad. that has no bearing on religion. We still have Christians that are bad tooo

@Dayokanu thanks for the compliments.
I've enjoyed reading from you too.
The truth cannot be hidden any longer.
No amount of prayers for Mo's soul can change his present location.

@Babyosisi
The muslims have started again o. The have already started burning effigies of the pope over a perfectly true statement he just quoted, made in the 14th Century. Let's hope it does turn into another rioting in 6 months time as they did wit the cartoons. The quote which said Prophet Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things is right and I don't know what the noise is about, If the could see it 7 centuries ago, I wonder why technology has not opened the eyes of people to see it now. Islam via Prophet Muhammad has brought only evil and inhuman things. I know if I should say this is Kano, I would become an instant christian martyr

abeg donmayor give us a link to this burning incidence.
They have come again

@Donmayor; It is not too late for you to leave for Kano. If its your wish to be a christian martyr. This will allow you the quick connection to jesus as you want it. then, when you see the reality with your own body and soul and experience the punishment of the grave, then it will be too late for you.

In response to the Pope, a german with nazism hanging on his head. Only if you people listen to the satoric lampoon about him on the progressive radio and the late Night talk shows, none of you will be eager to take him seriously. It is unfortunate taht the muslim will not patiently educate him about the GOOD that Muhammad (AS) brought to the world after Jesus (AS). Below are just a few of them;
1) The geartest of all is that Muhammad (AS), was an iconoclast. He destroy the notion of multiplicity of God. There is only One God. Ever powerful, Most merciful and Most forgiven.
2) He brought to forfront of the world stage a people that the world had shunted. The Arab became very important to civilization of the world.
3) The first First word revealed to Muhammad (AS) was Iqra; meaning Read for all persons, but for him (AS) it was recite. Before Muhammad (AS) serious education was not known to the Arabs. Before long, thereafter, they become the prominent in several fields of Academics. There were scientist and inventors in large number among them. This still continues up to today.
I guess who ever go to school with any person who study Qur'an will definately know it. even among the Muslims in Nigeria.

4) Under al-islam Andallusia and other places in Spain, infact spain in general became the center for Education and this brought the whole of Europe to its enlightenment which gave birth to america. Before the Muslims, the moor of Africa's culturing Europe, Europe was in its dark age.

5) Islam brought cleanliness to Europe. before islam, the Europeans used not to take showers. They will use tons of powder to cover their stench. Bathing and toiletery are inventions of islam
6) University of Al Ahzar in cairo, is the oldest university on earth. This is an Islamic invention and all essence of Higher learnings, the world over is modelled after it; The curicullum systems, the matriculation and graduation ceremonies, including the attires are modelled after this great Islamic Institution.

7) Under Ibn Khattab (RA), the second Khallifah, The Muslims helped the Coptic christians of Egypt against their oppressors, the catholic, whose leadership is the pope. The same papacy that denied cardinal Arienze of Nigeria the Papal position, when everyone expected him to be the Pope. Racist!
Under Khattab (RA), Muslims opened Jerusalem, yet refused to pray in the Church of the Holy Celpucar. Even though the Leader of the Church gave him the chance to pray in it. His refusal was to protect Churches in the later generations.

9) Muhammad fostered brotherhood among people. It was Muhammad that formulated the first constitution which cemented a strong society in madina consisted of Muslims, Christians, Jews and others.

Printing press, papermill industry, gunpowder and others were discovered under the civilization of islam. Without islam, Europe might probably have remained in its slumber. God knows best.

inshort, A person with the wind of nazi, like the pope should not be throwing stones. If you want to know about islam, read Qur'an. If you want to qualify muslim, judge him by the yardstick of the injuctions in Qur'an and Hadith. There is no one in islam of today that will say that he is a perfect muslim. Men and women, we are all struggling to improve our quality.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/5349604.stm

Check picture 3, You would see the burning. More violence might come 6 months later. It is not about taking the pope serious or not. I don't care about any pope. It's about muslim ideology and the fact that they don't probably understand english. He made a quote that anyone could make and they are asking for an apology. His statement was made to foster more interreligious cooperation and what happens?

I am not a follower of the pope,but what he said is the honest truth people have known for years.
Muhammad, that Arab warrior and sex maniac from the Arabian desert was one of history's greatest terrorist,by all accounts.
There is no difference between what he did in his lifetime and what somebody like Osama bin Laden,a present day hero of Islamic fanatics across the globe is doing for Islam now.
If all the followers of other religions in the world are as violence prone as these Islamic vagabonds, humanity would have disappeared many years ago.

I just hope people are at alert in Nigeria, ready for them,before those murderers go out like rabid dogs killing innocent people like they've always done,while they shout, allah akbar.